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Patreon page doesn't exist... good..
Elizabeth Sampat now has a Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/elizabethsampat
this makes me sad :(
and another 6 mths..
no books.. no contact.. just poor..
Some of the books exist. I backed with extra in order to get the custom dice. I have neither.
Anyone here from WA?
I mean, it's surely worth a shot, even if it's long one.
Meh. She got away with it. They got away with it. They fulfilled some, left the rest hanging, and both are doing fine. She still works in RPGs, and gets to be a media personality (in a small corner of the world). No amount of pleading, begging or asking has compelled them to even give the backers the dignity of a response. Let's face it, folks - they got away with this. Any extra money or books are surely long gone, and as KS legal action goes it seems unlikely an 8000 dollar KS will merit attention before 40k dollar+ projects still roam free as well.
I've learned from this, and make more careful KS investments now. I'll still bring it up wherever I roam if someone hires her again, no matter how many people get mad at me about it. But we should face the reality that this is done and over, and there are precious little consequences for them. It sucks a whole lot, but if everything at this point can't even merit a one line apology, then nothing will.
I'm done being mad about it, I accept it. I'm a more careful consumer now, especially for crowdfunding. No one should let them live it down, given the arena to bring it up, but active struggle is going to achieve nothing but make you frustrated and angry - it did me. So I'm going to sing a song from Frozen and move on.
No more substantial data than judging from the comments here, I'm afraid. However, I think we do know with rather absolute certainty at least that not a single one of the hardcover rewards have been fulfilled.
But I would contend that it is very much up to the project creator to dispute the assessment -- I am sure we're all ears! And if the Attorney General comes knocking, I would expect the cards to get on the table awful quick...
Jussi, do you mind if I ask what your source for "most backers" not having their rewards is?
I mean, I suspect you're probably right, I just would be interested in seeing real data, if there's any to be had.
I am not entirely convinced that a few backers having received rewards, with the majority still waiting for the bulk of what they paid for, would convince the Attorney's Office not to take a very dim view indeed on this project.
After all, consumer protection is what the AO is on about. And here, we have a bunch of consumers in need of protection.
Presumably that was directed at me. I'm pretty sure I said I wasn't defending them. I think that "abhorrent" is also more than a little hyperbolic, but yes, they mismanaged and, it seems, repeatedly lied about fulfillment of, a Kickstarter campaign for a roleplaying game. That sucks. They shouldn't have done that, and some honest communication would be awesome.
Sorry if you see that as "minimizing." I don't; I call it being realistic.
I had a longer, snarkier post written, but I'll just say this. Anyone who defends or minimizes the abhorrent and dishonest behavior of the Sampats really needs to examine their moral compass.
I'll start with my usual disclaimer about how I'm not defending the way that this KS has been run. With that said:
The suit in Washington, as I read it, involved a KS that has delivered *nothing*. The guy literally took the money and ran, didn't even pay the artist for his work, and now the license has expired and the creator couldn't print the cards (legally) if he wanted to.
In comparison, at least a few backer of TBF have received their rewards, and everyone should have the pdf, right? So I think it would hard to make the argument that there's a scam in play here, just a *lot* of mismanagement.
Again, that doesn't mean I'm holding the Sampats up as models of KS perfection, just that there's a large difference between one and the other.
It's been six months since we've received any sort of status update on this project. Please, please work with us. If you can't fulfill the outstanding orders, just let us know. Any communication is preferable to just leaving things up in the air.
I know that things have been heated in the past, but you - Elizabeth and Shreyas both - have the power to change that. You've already apologized for fulfillment issues, but this continued silence isn't doing anyone any favors.
We all see that your account has been logging in, so we know you're around. Please, again, just talk to us. That's all we ask.
Good for her. I'm glad she's speaking out on an important subject. I'm bummed that she used this project to build a resume to get her onto stages, though. I wonder if her dedication to ethics will ever be extended to people who gave her money for this game.
Elizabeth made an appearance at another convention:
I don't think the Sampats set out to scam anyone. I think Michael is right, and it was a simple case of mismanagement.
I think what they have done since, though, has pushed them from mismanagement to fraud. There have been repeated communications that "things are shipping" when in reality they haven't. They refuse to update the status of this project. There is no accountability. In my estimation, this is why class them as crooks. They took money, promised something in return, and haven't delivered.
So, while the intentions may have been good, the execution has been awful. Repeatedly. Consistently. Heck - they logged into Kicstarter yesterday. WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? You realize they only time they've posted recently is a) right before Elizabeth was supposed to speak at a con, and b) when she got work with Cortex+. Funny, isn't it?
Character is defined by what you do when adversity strikes. They've shown none.
I think it is hard to same "they aren't trying to scam anyone" when they repeatedly say they are shipping and don't. That sounds like the definition of a scam.
Here's the thing: even after all this time, I don't think the Sampats actively set out to scam anyone. Instead, I'm operating on the assumption that this project was a victim of its own success and of poor project management. If i had to guess, I'd say that international shipping (which they only charged a $3 premium for, remember) and the "durable" stretch goals ate through their operating capital raised by this KS.
And like a lot of people, once things started going wrong, it became more and more difficult to own up to their mistakes - hence the long stretches of radio silence, the stonewalling, etc. This doesn't make them thieves or conmen; just human. However, with three months since their last update and reports of people still missing books, Shreyas and/or Elizabeth need to stand up and give us a fair accounting of what they've accomplished, goals still left to reach, and a hard and fast plan to bring this project home.
At the very least, I think we're owed a fair accounting of how many books were actually shipped (and when), as well as an honest explanation for the delays. If they ran out of money or whatever, that's fine. We just need to know about it so we can set our expectations accordingly.
Shreyas, Elizabeth - if you're reading this, please just work with us. We want to see this KS closed out as badly as you guys do.
Checking in on the failures (just checked on Anvils and Axes, too) ....
Yup, still a failure.
Yup, the Sampats are still crooks.
I still haven't got mine. Damn, have two years gone by already? :(
Shreyas - It's been a couple of months since your last update. How's the fulfillment process coming along?
I still want to know what's happening with the hardcover copies of the books. Worse comes to worse, I would be willing to accept a "normal" copy of the game, but alas, all my messages have gone unanswered so far...
FYI, the Walking Eye podcast recently reviewed They Became Flesh after playing through a short campaign.
Yup, that's what I thought.
Three weeks ago Shreyas claimed he had a shipment ready to go out. Allegedly. Again.
Anyone actually seen anything from that yet?
Is she running on a panel on "How to lie to and steal from your customers without any consequences?" Maybe co-panel it with Mike Nystul?
Elizabeth will be a Special Industry Guest at Metatopia in New Jersey from 10/31-11/3.
We received an update. At this point, that is good progress and I hope it represents an honest attempt to wrap this whole thing up.
In other news, Elizabeth posted an impressive defense in regards to an ongoing internet controversy and is getting a lot of (unfair) shit over it, and I appreciate this update in the midst of that drama. Best of luck, and I hope this project gets finished to everyone's satisfaction.
I still haven't received my copy of the book and set of dice here in Portugal. What about you guys?
This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.
Well, if her tweet about 'poison' was aimed at backers from this project, then I have this to say.
I once worked night shift on a hospital floor that (like most) were short-staffed and used agency nurses to cover shifts. One particular agency nurse consistently signed up for the Friday into Saturday overnight shift and called in last moment every time. This went on for months (why, I don't know). Eventually the other nurses started asking if she was going to show up for the overnight shift, because they were tired of being stuck doing an unscheduled double shift or at least wanted to be able to plan for it. The agency nurse took offense at this and eventually stopped working on the unit, claiming a "hostile work environment."
Was there a hostile work environment? Maybe, if so, she created and she had the power to reverse it.
And I still have received no physical product or answer to my queries. (Backed at the Virtue level, with extra for extra dice and stuff.)
Oh, of course she didn't have her own booth. I never imagined she did, but just attending the con probably costs a couple hundred dollars, easily, right? I'm just saying if she's got that money, maybe it should be going toward the cost of another print run, or for refunds for those that have requested such.
I own a game store and had backed at the $75 level and even talked to her at the begining to say i might stock their product - but haven't received anything - and at the moment wont be stocking anything they are involved in!!!
I can't speak for everyone, but I appreciate you giving it a try, at least. Even if you weren't able to speak with Elizabeth, at least she hopefully knows that there's still interest.
And for the record, I don't really bear the Sampats any ill will. I don't think they set out to deceive anyone. This project just likely got away from them, and - well - it's human nature to avoid painful situations, especially in our hobbies. At this point, I think it's more idle curiosity on my part. I've gone on to grab a retail copy from a FLGS, so I have TBF on my shelf, even if I never see it in the format I backed. I'd just like to know exactly what happened -- where things went off the rails, if you will.
Even if that comes in the form of a final post-mortem post, it's better than nothing.
I went by the booth probably twice each day, and she wasn't there when I was. So I didn't get to ask anything. As Matt says, it was a shared booth - one she wasn't even manning full time. TBF was on sale at two different booths I saw, but I did not see it at her booth, for what it's worth.
I agree that it'd be nice to see where they stand now, but it might be hard because many have just given it up and moved on. This, though, is the reason Elizabeth should give the backers the minor courtesy of an explanation/update. Even if it was "No more stuff, we're done, deal with it" that is preferable to leaving so many twisting in the wind.
They didn't have their own booth. They shared booth space with some other folks, and I have no idea about the particulars of the arrangement.
On the subject of them owing rewards to "so many backers," are there any numbers on that? I only ask because I know that at least *some* people have gotten their rewards, and it would be informative, I think, to know how close or how far from completion this really is.
Attending (and having a booth at) Gen Con is *not cheap* though. I really wonder how they justify doing so when that money ought to be going toward fulfilling rewards owed to so many backers.
Just making fun guys... relax.
Yeah, no. I'm frustrated as well, but threats (no matter how they're veiled) is Not Cool. Let's keep things civil, okay? Nothing productive will come from asking someone if they feel safe at a convention.
Yeah, not asking those, sorry. Especially not 8, which is a little scary sounding.
5. Did you turn all the money into chocolate bars and ate them?
6. Why do you keep backing other projects when you didn't even delivered yours?
7. Do you feel safe here in Indianapolis when you know some of your backers are here?
For anyone else going to GenCon, Elizabeth will be at booth 1956.
I will be approaching her there to have a civil discussion and bring answers back to you all; my questions will be as follows:
1. Where are the remaining unfulfilled rewards?
2. Will shirts/extras be made or delivered?
3. What is the status of refunds?
4. Are you planning on making any substantive announcement or posting any answers on the kickstarter?
I'm not personally interested in getting into anything beyond that. I'm not really interested into getting into any kind of recriminations or arguments about intent or all that other stuff. I figure it is best to focus on concrete things that can be brought back to the rest of the backers. Feel free to post any other questions you might want me to ask, but keep this stuff in mind.
Any update on the Dominion level?
Alternatively, if she posts an update here before GenCon explaining the situation and apologizing and whatnot, I would gladly forgo engaging her at GenCon. Any answer will do, but people deserve it.