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An alternate-history World War 2 game setting, featuring lasers, walking tanks, alien technology and much more!
An alternate-history World War 2 game setting, featuring lasers, walking tanks, alien technology and much more!
1,475 backers pledged $469,313 to help bring this project to life.

Reiterating the free upgrade situation

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As well as many of you asking about the timeline and payment history, you have also asked us to clarify the entire free upgrades issue, so here it is.

 To reiterate, this is the only disagreement we have had with Dust Studio over the Kickstarter campaign.

During the Kickstarter project, John-Paul and Paolo talked daily about the plan and added incentives as the project grew based on a simple idea that both companies would contribute equal value items to the list.

This means that if Battlefront added an item such as a rulebook, the $25 value would then be matched against something like the Sisters of Battle unit, also worth $25. This was never going to be an exact science as the demand for each item would vary, but the split between us was expected to be 50-50, and ended up being very close to that at the end.

Battlefront was responsible for giving away the following incentives:

  • V2 Tactics Rulebook
  • Operation Babylon Campaign Set
  • Operation Achilles Campaign Set (one per backer over $100)
  • Warfare US Cards
  • Warfare Axis Cards
  • Warfare SSU Cards
  • Tactics US Cards
  • Tactics Axis Cards
  • Tactics SSU Cards
  • US Tokens
  • Axis Tokens
  • SSU Tokens
  • Babylon Tokens
  • US Templates
  • Axis Templates
  • SSU Templates
  • Abandoned Well

Dust Studio was responsible for giving away the following incentives:

  • US Medium Walker (Tropical Pounder)
  • Axis Medium Walker (Jagdleopold)
  • SSU Medium Walker (Tropical Mikhail)
  • US Medium Walker (Tropical Petard) Turret
  • Axis Medium Walker (Loth) Arms
  • SSU Medium Walker (Natasha) Arms
  • US Heroes x3 (Machete Mack, Crazy Jimmy, Alternate Machete Mack)
  • Axis Heroes x3 (Tina and Hyäne, Rolf Sammt, Alternate Angela)
  • SSU Heroes x3 (Red Banner, Iron Joe, Alternate Red Yana)
  • US Decals
  • Axis Decals
  • SSU Decals
  • Babylon Dice
  • Sisters of Demolition (one per backer over $150)

As you can see from our previous post about the financial summary, there has never been, nor will ever be money from the Kickstarter to pay for any of the free upgrades from either Battlefront or Dust Studio.

There have been a lot of public statements from Dust Studio about the offers of a 50% discount off their free upgrade items. But we have already contributed our share of the incentives (and shipped the majority already with the balance due with Wave 2), and Dust Studio is simply asking us to give them money for product for which no revenue has ever been collected or set aside. Dust Studio wants us to actually pay for 75% of the free items by asking us to pay for half of their stock as well as all of ours, from revenue that does not exist.

Comments

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    1. Chorazin on

      I got about 1/2 to 2/3 with wave 1.

    2. Missing avatar

      Jonathan Scott
      Superbacker
      on

      Crazy question -- has anyone received anything from this pledge? I also went for the two army deal and have received nothing so far. The people involved have no answered any of my messages.

    3. CrispyPete on

      So, I only spent as much as I did due to the overall deal that was published I.e which included the ability to trade the "free" upgrade packs for a lesser $ value for each $150 spent. So I understand the first set off supposed "freebies" is what's in dispute between DS And BF but what's going to happen with the other $100s I "traded" for credit and used to buy more stuff? I bought the stuff so doe that mean it will be in my wave 2? If not from the list of stuff I did by who is then going to choose which models I will get and which ones I won't?

    4. michael chumley on

      @ OneOfMany

      BF is talking with who? They are not talking to me, even asking me to contact them. I am sorry if I am beating this dead horse, but they have about $2000 of mine and will not even talk to me.

    5. Missing avatar

      OneOfMany on

      @Charles "How anyone at Dust Studios or Battlefront can say that the campaign has concluded simply amazes me. Every single backer of this campaign has been defrauded and taken advantage of."

      Only BF is talking that it is over with........... there intentions are clear.

    6. PewPewLaserYoda on

      game is dead to me. pls send me the other half of my 300 dollar pledge so i can sell this burden.

    7. Charles on

      So basically nothing has changed. We are all waiting on stuff that we might never see, some folks having received much of their pledge, some only partial (I only got about 1/3 of my $600 pledge), and others having received to date, nothing.

      How anyone at Dust Studios or Battlefront can say that the campaign has concluded simply amazes me. Every single backer of this campaign has been defrauded and taken advantage of. Had the campaign been honest about the planned use of the monies up front being to help pay off old debt, not only would it have violated the terms of Kickstarter, but I imagine not a single person would have pledged.

      Unbelievable.

    8. Missing avatar

      Stefan Haydn
      Superbacker
      on

      @Laniston
      What makes premium units increase in price is the cost of painting. Given the wages in China the increase in price is not that high. Compared to a primed figure it is more expensive, but not that much, as most part of the cost is wage and painting time.
      As you can see in the contract premium has a much higher price that BF had to pay. It was $180, retail value $300 for the Army deals. And believe me DS did earn money with them. There is a difference in production cost, but it depends on the wages payed. And do you remeber that DS was accused as a sweat shop by a backer?

    9. Laniston
      Superbacker
      on

      *Distribution costs to BF (not DS)

    10. Laniston
      Superbacker
      on

      The really annoying thing for me is that I went in for double task-force commander and so the free items from the BF side include the rulebook, operation babylon, operation achilles, 2 wells, and 2 sets of babylon tokens. The Dust side freebies are, I think, far more substantial in retail value as I get free stuff for 2 factions.

      I want to break it down just off the top of my head...

      BF gave/owes me (prices gleaned from this kickstarter page)

      rulebook $30
      Babylon $20?
      Achilles $40 (yeah it's discounted all over but I am figuring RRP)
      Wells - what would these be? $20 each if the ruined walls are $20? They are painted... so we'll say $20. That's $40
      Babylon Tokens - $15 x 2 = $30

      so we're at $160. That's pretty significant.

      DS gave/owes me

      Jagdleopold - $33
      Trop Mikhail - $33
      Arms for Loth and Natasha... $10 each? $20
      3x Axis heroes - $10 x 3 = $30
      3x SSU heroes - $10 x 3 = $30
      Rommel and Ivan come with Double taskforce so $20 more.
      Decal sheets - $4 each so $8
      2 sets of Babylon dice - $10 each so $20
      Sisters of Demolition - $22

      So that's.... $216. vs. BF's side of $160 making a difference of $56 retail price Dust over BF. Now for me, I included Rommel and Ivan - that's $20 and was not really typical of a free incentive pack so I can probably remove those. So $196 vs $160 is a $36 difference.

      Seems closer to me than I thought. I was figuring Dust products would be way more than BF products. And of course I guessed on prices for the wells so that could be more or less and I guessed on prices for the walker arms which could be more or less.

      Obviously premium incentive items would put DS far ahead of BF for those customers, but I wondered earlier if maybe the difference might be made up for in distribution costs to DS for those incentives.

    11. Laniston
      Superbacker
      on

      @OneOfMany - I wonder if because BF would be distributing the premium items the saving on shipping would perhaps counter the higher cost of premium. Doesn't premium only really come from Dust Studios directly? I don't think BF or FFG really did the distribution on the premium items and so for the Kickstarter Dust would be using the BF distribution system for premium items. The shipping of premium items on behalf of DS could account for extra production costs. Premium is double the retail cost for us but I wonder how different the production cost to DS is vs. Primed.

    12. Bradford Gyselman on

      I don't have any trust left in either party. What a joke. I'll be avoiding both companies in the future.

    13. Missing avatar

      OneOfMany on

      @ BF I can see ware you whent the wrong way, and why you shoud have done it on paper and not by skype or fhone........

      "This means that if Battlefront added an item such as a rulebook, the $25 value would then be matched against something like the Sisters of Battle unit, also worth $25. This was never going to be an exact science as the demand for each item would vary, but the split between us was expected to be 50-50, and ended up being very close to that at the end. "

      That is al fine by it self......... now comes the problem you have premium sets....... and a al painted up insentive would not ad up to the 25$ dut more..... 2x more then 25$...... so there is the problem and now you say sorry........ yes your sorry you could clear a 220.000 negative balance with our money.........

    14. Rob Griffiths on

      I have just received the dungeon terrain from the last kickstarter run by Battle Systems.
      Battle Systems are a small (2 man) operation who have now run 2 very successful kickstarters in their spare time.
      The way they have run their campaigns, kept backers up to date and delivered rewards has been exemplary.
      The performance by both Battlefront and Dust Studios has been deceitful, incompetent and not what we as backers expected from 2 big names in the industry. The fact that the only real losers in this whole disaster are the backers is disgraceful.
      CMoN, please take note of what has happened here, DS are poison!

    15. Missing avatar

      Carl Christianson on

      BattleFraud Dust Shysters!!!!!

    16. euansmith
      Superbacker
      on

      Ha - the thing that got me interested in signing up for the Dust Kickstarter was the Sisters of Demolition, and now it looks like I'm not going to get them, along with a pile of other stuff.

      This turned into a piss-poor showing by both Battlefront and DUST Studio; very unprofessional of both parties to get in to such a large project without a formal, written agreement signed off by both sides. I'll be avoiding any kickstarters from either party in the future.

      Anyone fancy buying a couple of SSU Battlegroups :D

    17. Metodi Markov on

      This sucks big time!!! BF and Dust are ripping us. They won't see a cent from me and if there is a way to sue them - I'm in!!!

    18. Mathieu Ouimet on

      Will those who pledged on the New Recruit level get their included hero figure since it's a full part of the pledge and not a "free" add-on or is DS holding all hero figures hostage until they get their way?

    19. Elfo on

      the missing BF items are supposed to be in wave 2. I got nothing of the free DS items so far but got most of the BF items. I am just missing tokens I think

    20. Luis Manuel García Conde on

      Nobody in my play group (5 backers) received any of this BF items:
      Operation Babylon Campaign Set
      US Tokens
      Axis Tokens
      SSU Tokens
      Babylon Tokens
      US Templates
      Axis Templates
      SSU Templates
      Abandoned Well

    21. Nyargle on

      @Quentin, oh, it's easily 1.6 horribles, but that's how it looks to me, and at this point all we have is conjecture and speculation, that and a distinct lack of models. This whole kickstarter has left a bad taste.

    22. Quentin Westcott on

      Joshua, your logic is horrible. Maybe 1.2 horribles, and unfounded.

      At this point, with Dust Studios being in China, I don't think I'm going to see anything more. Makes me not want to play the game or show it to my friends.

    23. Michael Burgin on

      Both parties are fraudsters and criminals, I both hope Dust and Battlefont disappear from the hobby scene and kickstarter learns from this shambles and does more to help its project backer as they have been pretty useless as well.

    24. Missing avatar

      Stefan Haydn
      Superbacker
      on

      Just to clear something. BFs incentives should be in this wave2 delivery. Please, as it is repeated so often, start raging about not getting this part of the deal, if they are really not delivered with wave2. At the moment it is only clear, that we will not recieve most of the DS stuff.
      Still not answered the question of trade in.

    25. Nyargle on

      So basically Battlefront conspired to defraud the kickstarter backers (with Dust Studios? they accepted the money so they were at least complicit in it).
      They took money that had been earmarked for completing the kickstarter campaign and used it for an unrelated purpose.
      They bought stock from Dust Studios and when it didn't sell as well as expected, they managed to offload the financial impact of a poor business decision onto us.

    26. ray bans
      Superbacker
      on

      your made an agreement with me and other backers to provide the incentive items.

      this is your contract with us.

      also you used funds to pay a debt, that was not disclosed.

      this was to battlefront's advantage, no one else's, as at the end of the day you owed the money, unless you suggest it was to Dust benefit as it would be the only way they would get it from you? which is also wrong.

      remove the amount you used to pay a debt from the equation, and you have made a healthy profit,

      so pay the 50% offered and get the rest of the incentive items.

    27. Gregory Withrow on

      Message from William Yau:
      We received a payment from Battlefront on 29 Jul 2015 for "wave 3" but the amount did not match the invoice. We had FedEx the cheque and the received amount back to Battlefront on the same day. We requested over and over again that purchase order need to include freebies. We are still offering 50% discount of the freebies, that is below our production cost.
      We do not accept any order without fulfilling all kickstarter orders from backers including freebies.
      Regards
      William

    28. Missing avatar

      Multifish on

      The detils of the dispute are irrelevent. The agreement with the backers is clearly stated. You can not conclude the KS without providing the incentives. Not doing so not only breaks that contract, but you may also be liable for criminal proceedings against you of a bait and switch fraud which is illegal in most countries.

    29. michael chumley on

      And yet for all this I still have nothing. Not one thing at all. I went triple premium and expected to add more so you have almost $2000 of mine and I can not even get you to talk to me to settle this.

    30. Jason Saldana on

      I got a two army premium pledge. My battlefront incentives would have been the rulebook, the babylon campaign set, the achilles set (which nobody wanted and was being heavily discounted at online retailers), two sets of cards, two sets of tokens and templates, and an abandoned well. The Dust incentives would have been two premium walkers, two sets of premium heroes, a premium mercenary set, two sets of decals, and some dice. So about $250 retail worth of Dust items for maybe $150 worth of Battlefront stuff? How is that 50/50?

    31. Jason Saldana on

      There is no way that cards, books, and tokens are of comparable value to all those plastic miniatures, especially if someone pledged for the premium versions.

    32. Matthew Ferry on

      On top of all I stated in my earlier post why was I offered the PREMIUM - Free Upgrade Pack (aka you spent $300) - Axis if nobody was gonna honor it? I don't know if anyone else got screwed over with this upgrade not being honored but I'm pissed about the run around I've gotten on this.

    33. Richard Knowles - RTK Limited on

      And I still have no idea what I am going to receive in this "Wave 2" :(

    34. Scarlet
      Superbacker
      on

      @Matthew Ferry
      Exactly, I think it's stupid that people are getting caught up in finger pointing. As far as I care the game is irrevocably tainted and both companies have lost my good will. The idea of alt. WW2 is solid, but I can't trust either BF or Dust to deliver. I might keep a walker or two as a nice shelf piece, but I'm basically out of Dust. Good going guys.

    35. Matthew Ferry on

      At this point I don't care who said what. This situation should NEVER have occurred. I want the stuff I paid for and was promised and if I don't get it I WILL be filing a dispute with kickstarter. Know this I will NEVER back another project by Dust Studios or Battlefront again unless you all grow up and make sure we the backers get everything we ordered and were promised.

    36. reptilebro1 on

      I have spent roughly 1000.00 dollars and did not receive a free rule book, I paid 20 dollars more for Babylon book (so not free), I received no free cards, no free dice, no free templates, no free well. The only free thing I got from BF was Operation Achilles.

    37. Ernster on

      Well I am still waiting on the tokens for all three armies and the well along with the dice from BF. I went in 2 x's' for the triple army deal and traded cards and extra tokens for items that were from DS! Seems I am due 1 set of tokens for each army from BF as I traded the second set. If I receive the in this wave it is DS that owes me the shit I added cash too for the trades!

    38. Missing avatar

      Carl Christianson on

      Battle Fraud Dust Shysters

    39. Jeffrey Gosnell on

      So I'm assuming that I will get the tokens, templates, and the well in this Wave 2? Because my Wave 1 didn't have crap in it.

    40. John Back on

      Finally Battlefront admits a large chunk of pledges will never be delivered. Well guess what Battlefront? You have shorted a LOT of keen hobbyists and they will _NOT_ forget. Your reputation is gone in the community.

    41. fightcitymayor on

      @The Collector
      Allow me to tell you what we won't be getting:

      US Medium Walker (Tropical Pounder)
      Axis Medium Walker (Jagdleopold)
      SSU Medium Walker (Tropical Mikhail)
      US Medium Walker (Tropical Petard) Turret
      Axis Medium Walker (Loth) Arms
      SSU Medium Walker (Natasha) Arms
      US Heroes x3 (Machete Mack, Crazy Jimmy, Alternate Machete Mack)
      Axis Heroes x3 (Tina and Hyäne, Rolf Sammt, Alternate Angela)
      SSU Heroes x3 (Red Banner, Iron Joe, Alternate Red Yana)
      US Decals
      Axis Decals
      SSU Decals
      Babylon Dice
      Sisters of Demolition (one per backer over $150)

      Because BF sez there's no money left, and (thanks to backroom deals we backers never saw) this was supposed to be Dust Studio's contribution. And as we read in Update #111:

      "This will conclude the Kickstarter, and means that all paid-for stock has been ordered and paid in full."

      Translation: We won't be getting the afore-mentioned items, because... well... because.
      HAPPY GENCON EVERYONE!

    42. R Stalter
      Superbacker
      on

      So a good bit of the things I won't be getting where promised by you Battlefront! I never received rulebook, tokens, cards, templates, campaign pack or the abandoned well.

    43. Jason McFarland on

      And, we haven't received the Babylon tokens and abandoned well that's on your list...

    44. Missing avatar

      Jordan Watson on

      Please stop calling the backer incentives free items. They're not free, we paid for them.

    45. Jason McFarland on

      Can you please stop spamming my email? Put it in one update for Pete's sake!

    46. The Collector on

      I'm still wondering which of the freebies we are not getting, which we still don't know.