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Sounds familiar: http://gizmodo.com/kickstarter-scammer-settles-with-ftc-but-wont-owe-a-dim-1710615739
Good to see the government going after fraud at least. Hopefully this won't be the last time.
Casey, thanks for looking into that.
On one hand that does answer a number of questions, but we also need to remember that Paul had gone silent a long time before that, there was a brief period where some (dubious) updates were made - for example I wonder if there every was a beta program.
I suspect this project was dead before this happened and this put the nail in the coffin.
Onics told me that they notifIed Devium in September 2013. Would have him been nice to tell us what is going on. I would really like to know what assets Devium has. If Onics actually has aworded patents then Paul should found them. But if he is giving up on Devium then he needs to liquidate and try and pay us back what he can... This is bad news.
Now we know what happens. In the comment section for Onics it said they sent cease and diciest letter as they already had the patents. Would have been nice for Paul to let us know. I asked the Onics creator when this letter was sent. If it was before the end of the campaign then we have a strong case for fraud. Even better if they also notified Kickstarter and KS diff cancel the project we might be able to go after KS.
Anyone else seen this new project on KS?
Sounds remarkably similar to the Dash
This project may come back to haunt him. There has been more exposure of failed projects and some accountability by state AGs pursuing them as fraud.
Kickstarter needs to take control of the fraud before everyone ditches their system for one that actually works.
Sony XSP-N1BT as an alternative, is more or less the same idea. But it's a real product. I think I will never get a Dash or a refund of my 500 Bucks. Lessons learned.
I wonder if this project is most expensive project for the creator to bail.
I wonder if AmEx claims will refund the money--300 bucks is a little more than I like to send down the drain. EVER.
Happy fourth of July. Which marks a full year since the last update.
If anyone is in the Colorado area, you should still attend on the off chance he actually shows up.
Jed posted a survey to collect information from backers so we can share information outside of this forum. (http://bit.ly/DissatisfiedWithDash) Please take a moment to fill out the survey if you haven't done so already. Thanks!
This was just posted on the previously mentioned Coffee Club website:
"One of the biggest risks of crowdfunding, for supplier and backer alike, is the risk of not being able to deliver what is promised within the promised timelines. One of our planned panelists for Open Coffee Club (Paul Lizer) has experienced that very real pitfall directly. This is an extremely difficult issue for anyone to deal with and Paul is dealing with it in his own way. Out of respect for Paul's desired handling of the situation, and to avoid having Open Coffee Club become a public forum between Paul and his backers, we've decided to replace Paul on the panel and continue with the event."
So his own way is to just completely ignore everyone? It's good for them they replaced him because obviously not qualified to mentor anyone, but I really wish he had presented because it could possibly be a source of information for what really happened.
Good find, Andrew. I encourage everyone monitoring these comments to join the conversation here:
I just can't figure out why Paul won't say anything to us but he's willing to be a speaker at an open forum. Knowing his background with this project I'd never want any advice from him!
Interesting, check out this link
Epicentral Coworking space offers Crowdfunding Vs. Bootstrapping Coffee Club, 7:30 a.m. at the coworking space, 409 N. Tejon St., Suite 106. Kristie Wilkerson from Startup Weekend II, Conor McCluskey of BombBomb and Paul Lizer of Devium will speak. To register: meetup.com/opencoffeeclub/ events/179819332/
Something changed in domain account about one month ago:
Domain Name: DEVIUM.COM
Updated Date: 28-apr-2014
Expiration Date: 10-may-
btw. guys from U.S.A, i dont beleive, that you have no time and chance to go to Colorado Springs and find out whats wrong with this project. I rather do it by myself, but i live in 5600 miles (9000km) away from this place, across the ocean. I think, somebody with company or not, have to do it, find this guy and ask him questions. I did not call you racket him or something like that, I just asking you to get answers for all the people who were involved in this performance.
Report ALL scam projects to Kickstarter ALL at once
If you're a backer of a scam project, hit that report button today! Let's flood some inboxes. Get other backers to join by posting in the comments.
Please support this effort to demand acocuntability!
Added to the kickscammed page! DOWN WITH PAUL!
Kickscammed page url changed:
@Casey, Kanin, Tony, et al, Count me in too. While I would like my money back, if he hadn't let it escalate this far, I'd probably be fine with a solid explanation of what he was doing, what went wrong, and why. That's no less than would be required were he to have sourced his funding from somewhere else, like investors.
I'm ready for some of that as well. Though just have to wonder how many people have contacted the WA attorney general? I am sure there are quite a few projects that have gone south....
To Paul Lizer: It's not too late. Just tell us what happened! If the funding went dry, show us the statements. What is upsetting us more then anything is you just disappearing. I would think you would at least want to defend yourself.
Count me in.
Hi Andrew, I hope you are correct. I am in Canada so I've probably got the least standing compared to an American to get this thing escalated in a U.S. State court.
I would guess if someone in Washington could complain to the Washington AG maybe he'd look at this case as well?
More about it here:
Tony, I just saw that article and was about it post it here.
but I don't think we need someone in CO, that kickstarter was based in TN but a WA state sued them. It makes me think that we just need an attorney regardless of location
...attorney general for the state of Washington has filed a lawsuit against a company that raised more than $25,000 on Kickstarter but allegedly didn’t deliver the playing-card deck it promised its crowd-funding investors.
Can someone who is in CO complain to the AG?
Hey fuck tits give us our money back before people start looking for you!
Has anyone investigated a class action against him?
Reported on kickscammed.com on 4/11/14:
Well, if y'all feel real strongly about this, the domain registration for devium.com is about to expire on May 10th. You could always try squatting on the domain for your payback.
BTW, looks like he is using Office 365 in conjunction with this domain. I find that a little disconcerting, because that isn't necessarily cheap.
REFUND REFUND REFUND
Logged on April 2nd and still no response to us....no respect!
Refund refund!!! =) maybe I have higher chance of hitting the lotto
Does anyone know how to contact this cowered?
:( this is so sad and illegal. I vote we just keep sending messages until someone gives us our money back or we will sue!
Hi Drew, you seem to be correct in your assessment that Kickstarter is toothless when it comes down to scams and failed projects, yet they are taking a fee for the crowdfunding matchmaking service.
I always suspected that Paul Lizer didn't know what he was doing since the amount that he was looking for was way too low to be reasonable. Most hardware projects require a lot more money to get going but I decided to give Mr. Lizer and kickstarter the benefit of the doubt.
I bet Kickstarter would have a lot more skeptical eyes if they were to label their which of their 'successful' projects failed to deliver in the end, because those numbers are not insignificant.
Mr. Lizer should just bite the bullet and tell everyone here the project is dead by posting an update. Others with failed projects have come and done this, and people have been accepting of this.
Perhaps there should be a kickstarter launched for the backers of this project to sue Mr. Lizer for not delivering *anything* at all.
Just to update you folks...
I did send an e-mail to Kickstarter:
This is the second attempt made to contact you folks.
The project creator received funds from backers well over a year ago, and communicated about development of the project regularly until simply stopping. He then refused to answer questions, refused to post any further updates, and apparently has not logged into Kickstarter since September. During the early stages of the project, I DID connect with him through Facebook, and have seen regular status updates about his personal life all through this time. Seeing no other recourse, I did send a polite message to him on Facebook requesting an update, and his response was simply to remove me from his friends list.
On your "help" page, you list the following:
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Not only has the creator utterly failed at delivering on the project, he has ceased communicating with his backers in total, for absolutely no reason given. There was never any indication of blocking issues or challenges to fulfillment, just simply zero communication. Backers inherently understand that projects may meet challenges, as did I when I pledged my support. However, simply ceasing to communicate is unforgiveable. Kickstarter assures us that there are legal obligations placed upon creators to fulfill their end... What more does this guy need to do for Kickstarter to look into this matter in an official capacity?
This man advertised a product, took thousands of dollars of our cash, and vanished. How is this acceptable behavior, and how is it that we, as backers, are simply supposed to accept that this is a normal risk when backing a Kickstarter project? How are we supposed to accept that there is little to nothing that can be done from Kickstarter's end?
And received the following response:
Per the Terms that you quoted, the agreement you enter into when you back a project establishes a legal requirement for creators to either fulfill their rewards as promised or issue refunds to backers for whom they can't provide rewards. While Kickstarter is the platform for this agreement, we are not a part of it. We certainly encourage creators to fulfill rewards, offer refunds, and communicate with backers, but we're unable to force them to do so. It's the creator's responsibility to complete their project as promised or to issue refunds.
I'm sorry again that this has been such an unpleasant experience. I hope that my message to the creator merits a response soon in which they can address your concerns. In the meantime, I'll share your experience with the rest of the team as we continue to evaluate our policies and procedures moving forward.
Sooo... that's it, folks. Show's over. I hope you didn't need that money, because you'll never see it again.
While I appreciate the response, their position of simply being a "platform" for the legal bindings they place on creators renders those bindings utterly meaningless. There is utterly zero difference, at this point, between a legitimate crowdsourcing attempt and a common scam. It's honestly saddening that Kickstarter would allow this to happen, rather than honoring the spirit of the assurances they provide backers.
DREW: well, at least we know he is still alive. Also, since he most likely has one of the prototype installed in his car, it will be a constant reminder everyday when he gets in his car how he has treated those who gave him the money to make his dream radio a reality.. when if he is the only one who gets to enjoy it.
Back when this project was first getting started, I found him on Facebook and friended him. Since, our interaction has been minimal and professional, where I offered some suggestions for the product that seemed to be valuable to him. That was a half a year or so ago. As he started becoming more silent, I didn't ask questions, because I didn't want to seem adversarial. Until two days ago. I messaged him this -
"Hey, Paul - I know it's a little unprofessional to reach out to your personal Facebook, but there's a hell of a lot of backers (including myself) confused and frustrated about Dash. Delays and unexpected blockers I totally get, but the complete silence is a little hard to understand. What gives?"
No response. For several days. I tried again.
I'm now no longer on his friends list.
This is crystal clear proof that not only is this thing completely dead in the water, he's actively running from his responsibility to communicate with his backers, deliver a product, or even be a decent human being. NOW I'm pissed.
LMAO guess the tool couldn't keep that job...doesn't seem to be very good at anything he does!!
Yup. Time to give up ever getting answers or knowing how far he got with this project.
Tried to call the Amnet number, he no longer works there so that didn't help.
This guy is the biggest loser! Karma is a bitch!
Not to rub salt in the wound, but just found on another site that this Sony radio is suppose to be available in May for around $250...
I found this online...
Its dead he should just hand over what little he has left of our funds and say sorry for being such an A**. He could have handled things a thousand different ways and any of them would have been better that just going "dark" like he did. Very classless move!
Looks like Paul may have missed his chance to deliver a huge radio
Happy New Year everyone. I wonder if we will get an update this year.
So, now what do we do. Even kickstarter has stopped responding to email.