Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
That would be an ineffective use of our time, as far as I can tell. We’d need to learn a new system, get it working with SLA and prepare the scenarios.
It sounds like a good idea until you look at the amount of work required. I’m sure you’d rather we spend the time on new content. 😀
Ok so while we wait for this, how about the creators doing a RPG night on Roll20 Using the Core rule book. This would get new players and promote the game and give all us Vets something to get into from the SLA world
A cursory look at Daruma's page shows a lot of Dave's lovely artwork and no miniature information for a very long time. I guess it was wrong for us to believe in this as I fail to see an end.
I don't use Face Book and if you could post updates here too that would be appreciated.
What if you don't use Facebook, also this was a KS backed project so any updates should be on here not Facebook.
A few links in case you're not following the progress on Facebook:
SLA Industries: https://www.facebook.com/WorldOfProgress/
SLA Industries Development Diary: https://www.facebook.com/SLAIndustriesDiary/
Nightfall Games has a facebook page too at https://www.facebook.com/nightfallgames/ but as we've put RPGs on hold until CS1 is done, not much is happening there.
If you're only wanting to like/follow one page, make it the Daruma one, as that's where announcements and other stuff about this kickstarter will be shown.
Hi, Jared from Nightfall Games here. Work is progressing on the book, with the A5 book nearly ready to print. If you look on the Facebook page, you'll see that work is ongoing. We are committed to delivering the game, and Dave has already produced over two hundred and fifty pieces of art, working almost every day since the project was announced, so I don't know where the impression that nothing is being done is coming from.
Up here in Scotland, we're not involved in the miniatures delivery side of things, but even a cursory glance at the Daruma Productions facebook page will show you that lots of work has been, and is being, done.
That was two months since last update
So two months on since last so what's happening with our money then, any updates or the normal run around ?
Ten later and still no update on the rules and it is things like this that cause people to have no confidence in you. Its the right hand doesnt know what the left hand is doing. I still want a refund as this project is going no where fast and for very personal reasons
The fallout from Palladium is leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth and is exacerbating trust issues with other campaigns, including this one. I had a friend who was reluctant to get involved with the campaign once he saw that Dave was involved, and I guess he was right, given that the book is almost a year late and Dave hasn't even finished the necessary artwork. I understand you're reticent to provide a ship date, but can you provide an estimated date - like in 2018? Because unless I came here, to the comments, I'd have had no idea any work at all was being done - other than Dave having worked on a screenplay for a movie, and produced some artwork for Blizzard - which makes it seem that SLA isn't a priority.
I am not a paid mouth piece, nor am I a member of the company. Just a big fan with a lot of patience who's done what he can with his free time to help Sla succeed. My comments express my genuine faith in the guys at Daruma. I volunteer as an Op for SLA just like I volunteer as a Pathfinder for Mantic. Out of a love for the games and a desire to pass what I enjoy for others. I just try to have a positive outlook on life.
I've got a lot of time for this project to get done and I am in no rush to get it in my hands. Happy that things are going forward and will be happy when it lands on my door.
Art, we can appreciate what you're saying, but this project will be finished. Firstly - we don't owe any sculptors a single penny for any work completed. We are fairly sure we know some of the people whom are spreading rumours and that those are most likely for personal reasons, which we're not going to be drawn into. We don't know what all these rumours are, and to be blunt - we're not really interested.
You are saying, in the same comment that we're not paying Sculptors but that you think we are paying Steve to comment? Steve does not work for us, technically nobody does as we all have day jobs - he is a fan / supporter and is entitled to his thoughts the same as everybody else and his are no less valid than anyone else.
We are still receiving KS stock - in fact we took delivery of 2 huge boxes of Mantic terrain only a few weeks ago. Ronnie has done us a solid, as the terrain is not in stock everywhere, is in high demand (because it is awesome stuff) and prioritised to us to ensure that we have it. We will take photos of the 2 huge sprue boxes shortly and put them up - they are about to be emptied, broken down and repacked as pledge bags of scenery. Again, once that excercise is complete we will put photos up showing you the sprue bundles.
Most of our Commitment right now is the book.. yes there are a lot of bits to this KS, but the reality is that the book is the cornerstone and most important component - thus, that is what Dave and Jared are prioritising.
Dave has done the art for all the remaining Characters (about 9 or 10) for the KS sculpts and as soon as he finishes the book creation will start working with 3d Sculptors to bring those to life. He is a very "hands on" artist and likes to ensure that the model is right - being honest.. he's a stickler.. and a few 3d sculptors have struggled to work with him on this project as they like putting in their own "touches", and Dave prefers that they follow the brief instead - something that not all of them are comfortable with, they regard "revisits" as alts to the brief when in reality they've not actually followed Daves' very detailed briefs and he insists that they do. Please feel free to ask around, a few of those whom we have worked with will confirm this, Dave is a master of his art and is passionate that the models reflect this. He is happy, once that master is done - for additional sculpts to have some more input from a designer, but the original.. has to be exact.
So, do we pull Dave from the book / art / writing to focus on the minis? Or do we let Jared and he finish that and then move him back onto the minis? He cannot do both simultaneously.
Over half of the miniatures from the KS are done and dusted - the resin runs are sat on our shelves, most of the metal is as well with more coming every few weeks (about 250 metal McNulties landed last week alone).
The rest of the non Mini components? Are.. pretty much almost done and dusted, The last of the Gamer bags are booked in for printing this monday (possibly take longer than a day), the terrain is here, we have some test pieces for the acrylic tokens / templates and need to make a call on the exact disposition / numbers of those shortly and then they're off for cutting. There are a lot of "bits" in this KS, and they all need to be there and ready for dispatch and we will make sure that they are. In the meantime we are about to close off feedback / checks on the Rulebook and Jared will go through that and correct anything that needs it. We are also getting Print quotes, right now - and hope to get that off to print within another month or so. The PDF will go up when its finished, just before the print run commences.
We are reluctant to give firm dates as we have had our fingers burnt more than once by people within the industry not sticking to agreed time frames / prices, etc and in at least one instance - blatantly ripping us off and not delivering at all after being paid.
So, yes - we are running late.. no - we don't have an exact date. We will put up more photographs in coming weeks of items like the Terrain, Metal minis, etc to let you see that we are still progressing - albeit slower than we would wish.
If its not already up, Jared is putting up a more detailed update on the Rulebook and the work he has done on that. He did put this on the SLA / Daruma page recently but will put it on here as well.
We will follow that in the next few weeks with images of newer stock arrivals such as the Terrain, metal minis, etc. For now, we ask only that you bare with us and we will get your KS delivered to you.
“ I've not backed a single miniatures or RPGKS that actually delivered on time. It's par for the course”
Circle of Chaos
All have delivered on time or within a month or so of the stated ETA (or in Oathsworn’s case months early), so please, hold with this bullshit line that an ETA on Kickstarter is somehow an empheral thing to be ignored.
Fact is, right now, there’s rumours circling Daruma like a bad smell about funding issues, that the don’t have the cash to complete the project, that sculptors haven’t been paid - I’d like honesty from those I invest in please, and accurate dates.
As it stands, Daruma are now in the shitheap along with Prodos, Palladium, Mongoose and a select few others as not to be trusted even with the petty cash.
Yes, the rulebook is nearly there, yes it’s quite nice, but I backed for a full package - rules and miniatures and right now? I see nothing but a project that’s nearly a year late with no end in sight.
So sending out a paid for mouthpiece to say ‘everything’s cool’ doesn’t cut it.
A month since an update.... says it all really.
But Stephen you would say that as you part of the company away. The fact is its not the lateness its the lack of communications, clear communications thats get me. Still want the refund of my pledge, not because it is late, but because of personal reasons
Keep up the hard work guys. I know the work that's put into the rules, I've seen the minis I've probably played more games than almost anyone outside of the creators , I've ran this at events and people love it. Get it right then get it delivered, not the other way round. I've not backed a single miniatures or RPGKS that actually delivered on time. It's par for the course and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. "Just quit with them negative waves"
They arent got the money to pay mate
Did you manage to find a printer then?
As we're still willing to quote. would love to work with you on this project.
@Art - we've put up comprehensive lists recently of whats done, whats WIP, etc. The biggest change is that the layout is complete on the A5 Rulebook. Its being checked and verified by our Beta Group and a few professional editor types to ensure that the spelling, editing, layout, etc is all 100% as it should be. Jared is (whilst thats happening) working on the Graphics for Examples of play, etc. When that is all complete we will put up the PDF for you all to download and send it off for printing.
@Frazer - the full rulebook, Dave is working on right now. Literally. He is on the home straight with the artwork and has also been writing (in conjunction with Jared) a massive amount of content.
The main issues with getting the miniatures out is Daves time - when we get the Master sculpted and approved Dave has 100% control over the quality of that mini, and he doesn't sign off until it meets his approval. That can necessitate alterations, resculpts, etc - all of which take time, as does his initial brief. So.. do we pull him off of the main book and switch him to sculpts and delay the book further? Or do we let him focus and continue working on the Book, which really is the cornerstone of the entire project? He is currently working feverishly on the book.
Once he has the book to layout stage (i.e. artwork and content are finished) then it goes off to Jared whom does the next stages. At that point, it makes sense to then refocus on the Miniatures and bringing them to development and casting.
Any news or updates? Anything on the full rulebook?
Nearly a month since a substantial update - and, following on from my previous query, can we have a list at least of what’s done, what’s WIP and what’s yet to be started to at least give us some comfort?
Because as of now, this is starting to feel like vapourware.
On 18th Jan you stated updates shortly, well where are the updates?
Since 6th Jan there has been no progress reports on the figures is that because the rumours are true that you have ran into a problem with them?
I would still like a refund as I believe this report is never going to be completed
Not all the minis have been finalised yet and not all have been cast. From what I have been told from a couple of people in the business there is a cashflow problem, but this is a rumour and as much as I want my money back I wouldnt want that on anyone.
If the minis are ready and waiting, but the book isn't, can we have 2 waves then? Minis now, book when it arrives.
As someone who wanted the minis more than the book then I'd be happy with this as a 'work around' - given there's no timescale on the book I think it's the least you can do.
Still I would like a refund as I cannot see this project going anywhere soon and in fact going anywhere. Nothing will come of it.
To be fair this s a Kickstarter to get a project off the ground rather than a pre-order one so was expecting delays , and the time frame with a small team is not something that worries one. The work already done the game plays and progress is about right for the projects progression, and would rather have a well crafted project and product than a rushed one. As some one who backs fairly often have seen this and its not helpful to future backing of a company. Also as someone who is helping Sky Relics with their KS project can understand the behind the scene delays that occur. That in its self has been a real eye opener with regards economies of scale and production.
The time taken is the time taken.
Daruma Yes I was and you no what I thought too and what you thought of them. You are right the "rules" have been done, when the core part, but no faction stuff, ebb powers still not complete, they need tidying up, etc. But I was talking about the mini rulebook you stated release before christmas, only half the sculpts done, its been a year and a half and not a lot of process. I again ask for a refund as I am sick of all this.
Colin thanks for the offer but no and if I got a refund for Daruma then I wouldnt be moaning would I?
See, its comments like this:
't seems, unfortunately, that Kickstarters have a tendency to take a lot longer to deliver than initial plans had suggested. If you take a moment to look at the Kickstarters we have backed (there are a lot) you'll see that pretty much unilaterally few (if any) of them have been delivered on time. Some are now years late and still showing no sign of being delivered anytime soon. That doesn't excuse our delays, and we are working to get everything out as quickly as we can'
Which just fill me with despair. Rather than a race to the bottom, how about setting more accurate, realistic fulfilment dates (after all, incremental improvement theory would suggest you'd have a better idea of what they should be by looking at the market as you suggest) rather than promising the earth and failing to deliver even partially?
As it stands, Daruma now enter the same 'don't touch with a bargepole' category as Prodos, Mongoose and Mantic for me in terms of Kickstarters.
i understand your anger at the comments, we have been waiting a long time now and its fair we are getting worried, you would be. board game are advancing all the time now and if im honest i don't know if this will be out of date when we get it. You have to remember 70% of the people here are original SLA fans
@Chris, its Jared (Nightfall Jared) whom is doing the layout, Graphics, setting, etc. He is very good at that and he and Dave are working on the layout plan / page count / graphics, etc already. Once he has typeset and laid out the A5 Rulebook he'll progress onto the A4. I would imagine, once the A5 is just about ready is when he'll want to talk Printing with yourselves, get a quote, etc.
@ Guy - wobbly? We've explained why we are reluctant to give an exact date which we wouldn't want to miss. It seems, unfortunately, that Kickstarters have a tendency to take a lot longer to deliver than initial plans had suggested. If you take a moment to look at the Kickstarters we have backed (there are a lot) you'll see that pretty much unilaterally few (if any) of them have been delivered on time. Some are now years late and still showing no sign of being delivered anytime soon. That doesn't excuse our delays, and we are working to get everything out as quickly as we can - the snippets of Daves' work that we are starting to show should give you an idea of the type of (non Rules) content that the A4 Book Will have, for example. We've put photos of some of the miniatures up and will shortly put up more - the metal versions, for example, are due with us in the next week or 2. We expected them mid December but didn't confirm that previously because our Metal Caster had Weather issues pre xmas which closed him down for a while, and has staff illness issues post Xmas that mean he simply hasn't been able to cast the sample run.. its exactly issues like this that are why we don't feel confident enough to give a more exact date. Had we promised to show you the Metal minis pre Xmas and let you all down.. we'd have been accused of not sticking to our word, when the reality is that those circumstances are entirely outwith our control and are.. unfortunately.. it appears, pretty much parr for the course when manufacturing. You can, of course, contact KS if you have concerns but i believe they'll tell you that there is always a risk with anything you back via Crowdfunding as we ourselves have experienced with many of the Projects we backed. We will keep showing you underway and completed KS components and, as we approach having finished products to send out and we won't stop working on this until everything we have promised in the Kickstarter is fully delivered.
@Panzerkaput - you've confused us.. you were part of the Closed Operative group and had unrestricted access to the rules as we worked on them over the months.. you took part in conversations about them, put forward views, etc - now are you saying you don't remember that "No rules as yet?". The rules are now done. Finished. 100% complete. Brad made a few last minute tweaks (writers!!!) and has recently passed them to Jared whom is starting on the Layout / Graphics stuff and making them all look pretty and SLA styled. We have described all of the examples of play inserts needed and are doing rough layouts on those this week for Jared to turn into finished and polished graphics before inserting them into the Rulebook. All of this, and more.. will be on an update shortly.
this is all looking wobbly again,
Nice Chris Sutherland is basically begging to help you but hes still waiting,
more and more are asking about time scale and getting get answers like " its xmas we are with family" and " just had a baby" that's all nice but you got our money!
i never backed something like this before, do we need to contact KS?
@PanzerKaput I'll buy it from you for £30 if it shuts you up?
Thanks for the updates! They're great!
Still waiting for contact about printing. We can also help with artwork too if required (i.e. if the layouts are all set, and it's just the dog work of typesetting, we could shoulder some of that burden)
Half the sculpts done, no rules as yet, no deadlines, going well. Still happy to sell my pledge or have Daruma give me a refund as I cannot see a when this is going to be fulfilled
Happy new year to everyone at Daruma. I don't post much to say anything, but I'm excited to see this all come together and I know how hard the team are working. All the art I've seen previewed so far looks am.az.ing.
I don't have any intention of telling anyone else how to feel (you do you, my fellow backers!) but I'm looking forward to the rulebook when it's ready, and I'd much rather it took the time it needs to be the book you're all happy with, than meet some arbitrary date you set before the campaign even began, or feel you have to expend energy explaining. Something almost always goes wrong in publishing, so stay strong, and I look forward to reading and playing when it's ready!
thankyou for your response, I think one of the more unique problems with this KS is that it has so many components and that makes everything more difficult to control and report upon.I honestly think people are frightened , especially when they are passionate and love the project it becomes easier to become more paranoid because you really really want the gear.Maybe you could break the KS down into sections and show say its status so that a link on here can be updated by yourselves and answer many written questions saving all of us some time and worry.Anyways enough egg sucking lessons , please understand any questions or criticism comes from a constructive place cos we give a shit and a paranoid place as I personally have been burnt on many KS who original claims were you know similar to what we were being told.So heres to 2018 and a great year for all suppliers and kick starters, may your investments always arrive, even if its a bit late, because its partly our dreams too.
As I cannot receive a refund from Daruma, though there have sort of for another backer, is anyone interested or know anyone who is interested in buying an all in pledge from me?
@Art - if we've done anything to suggest to you that we are a large company with multiple staff, full time employees, etc - then we are sorry. We are not. It is, at this time, mostly myself whom is tracking the KS and where each of the components are at and I am in the fortunate position of having a newborn at the moment, and he is taking up a great deal of my time. We have caught up 100% with all mail orders right now, stayed on top of all dispatch and attended a couple of shows in the last weeks.. in addition to regular day jobs, school runs, babies, etc. Now - i do have a stack of spreadsheets showing what is done, what is to be done, whats scheduled, whats in the store room, etc, etc.. i could stick those up for you - they'd likely be incomprehensible however and make absolutely no sense to anyone. Or.. i can get some free time over the festive period where i'm not working / building Monster High schools for a 7yr old / changing the baby / etc.. and get it all translated into a document that will be easy to read and lay out in simple terms where we are at with each component and piece of the KS.
@Steve - i could give you an answer, but as we've experienced last year when we are relying on 3rd parties to accomplish a task for us, they don't always deliver on time. Or deliver at all on at least one occasion. Rather than risk that and let everybody down - we would rather confirm as each benchmark is reached and update you when (for example) a big task is completed. I.e. Rules are written and done, faction rules are written and done, Jared is cracking on with Layout and so forth. When that work is complete on the A5 we will update you and confirm that it has gone to print. If our updates seem reluctant to give a specific date, we apologise - but having had our fingers burnt already we have gained a new respect and understanding for the difficulties in delivering a KS and in working in this industry in general. Because we don't actually make much stuff ourselves (i.e. books, miniatures) in our own in house production, we need to rely on others - and they have their own agendas.
Garment printing - that we do ourselves (the day job), and that we have a far tighter control over because if its not done.. its because we haven't done it, and we can fix that more easily than any outsourced issues.
@lonedirtydog - printing issues may mean jack to you.. but if we are spending time fixing and addressing those we aren't working on advancing the Kickstarter delivery. If you want to email us r.e. the Cars, we can change your pledge to those and get them out to you post Xmas.
For now - we will be closed over the next 14 days or so, but i will get a clear and concise (and understandable) update out regarding every component of the KS and where its at. We wish you all a very Merry Xmas, and a Happy Hogmanay!
Forgive the cynicism, but when I last asked it was 'as soon as we're back from a show' - and now its 'over Xmas' - do you not even know yourselves where you are with this project? That's more than a little concerning.
I look forward to seeing the update.
Still waiting for an answer when do you think realistically we can expect the product that we have paid for from this last KS ?
What is ready now exactly ? This is 6 months over due and still no clear idea where you are exactly. Most updates are confusing and as I have stated I have no need for the rule set so printing issues means jack to me, can we have an up to date list of what is ready. At this point I would swap my pledge for one each of your Remus Roadster and Augustus SLA cars as they seem to be purchasable at least.
@Daruma Productions I have never stated that you are put too much stuff on here about your other stuff but I have you have stated that you dont update here about SLA often enough. I think you are mistaken there but hey thats life.
Anyone interested or know anyone interested is buying an all in pledge?
Planning on going to any shows next year to show off your stuff?
@Art - this will be up over the Christmas period, as we are flat out with work and lives at the moment and need to spend a bit of time pulling it together in detail and in a format that is easy to read.
@Chris - we will be in touch shortly, initially regarding the A5 and then the A4 H/B book, thank you!
@Panzerkaput.. Thank you for the that, you've already complained that we put too much stuff on here that is non KS related and should be focussed on the KS. Now you're complaining that we're not putting non KS related stuff on..? I'm not entirely sure we can appease you on both of those complaints at the same time..
Its Xmas - please have a really good time, drink lots of whatever makes you Merry and eat lots of what makes you smile :)
@Michael - yes, thats Dave & Jared, most of what is happening right now is behind closed Doors (closed Apple Mac's if we are more accurate..) but Dave and Jared are working very hard on pulling it all together, and there is a stack of insanely cool artwork already prepared.
There is this from Dec 10
Nothing has happening as yet and as for giving more meaningfully updates will thats pie on the sky. I have requested a refund on this project and they have stated no, we dont do refunds. Being honest here so you can make your own mind up, but nothing on their Facebook page except understanding Christmas promos, would of been good if they had thought to let the backers who have help fund the game know, nothing new of fan page, sorry still not see this project coming at all.
Still check out there website or facebook page as they do have some good deals on.
@Daruma, just read about the printer issue.
Have you managed to source a new printer yet?
If not, please send me a message, I work for the largest commercial printer in Cumbria (So we're only a couple of hours away from Doncaster, where I think you're based? You'd be able to visit the presses if required)
we print books all the time, Both hardbacks and softbacks, and we've been going for 140 years, so not a fly by night operation!
Would love to help if I can.