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Only 13 months until Ken Whitman delivers KODTLAS. Wheeee!
@Jolly Blackburn - Yes, it says a lot.
@Charles Martinell - Life must be swell when you can con 795 people and only get 20 enemies... ;)
I often wonder if I can play myself in the tv version of this story......I'm apparently one of the 20 people who hate Ken. Yes I am. Thanks again for taking my cash and not fulfilling the dvd's.
So Mr. Whitman is bragging on another site that no one will ever bother suing him because he doesn't have any money. Bragging!! That says a lot about him.
sort of strange isn't it...? Guy comes back to a game store to peddle for money — after owing backers so much? It would be one thing if all that money raised had gone toward producign product and he came up short due to problems beyond his control. But we know better.
"Will w**k for coins"
Oh lord. Ken/Whit Whitman's actually *charging* $18 bucks a photo at his BFF Marcus King's store. For an autographed photo of a dude who did nothing but stand there in the background menacingly in one episode of the walking dead, a non-speaking minor role. Red Shirts in Star Trek have more right to charge, good lord. Maybe he'll try another gofraudme for writing nasty Haiku to someone like he's done in the past to raise money next. Good lord. This is sad comedy. Hope someone's got it on film, and some legal papers have been served appropriately, from folks here and from Spinward Traveler, Pencil Dice, and Castles & Crusades. (Though those IP owners don't seem as concerned that Whitman ripped off all their fans, I hope they take this opportunity to serve the appropriate legal papers.
A leopard cannot change its shorts
So just under a year in Georgia and he left owing people money... Not surprising.
Well, folks, looks like Ken/Whit Whitman himself, the one & only, will be available for you to meet, serve legal papers to alongside your legal council or state Attorney General of choice, at the below game shop, in *Kentucky*, this Saturday.
It appears he's making an appearance at his best bud Marcus King's game store to sign autographs from his brief appearance last season on the Walking Dead. The same Marcus King whose game store was last seen re-selling Kickstarter merchandise that didn't go to the backers of Traveler, etc...
The word is now that he's had to leave Atlanta, GA, following reports of actors who paid him to record demo footage (using our camera equipment), and not doing so. Another scam act that caught up to him.
Thus, he's apparently run home to Corbin, Kentucky, right in Marcus King's backyard, and about 3 hours from where he previously lived during this scam Kickstarter, in Brandenburg.
I'm sure this is of obvious interest to anyone wishing to hand him legal paperwork in person, and also multiple states' Attorney Generals hunting him down.
Spread the word, to Spinward Traveler, Pencil Dice, Castles & Crusades, Whit Studios' jilted actors in Atlanta, and beyond. Hope everyone perusing legal remedy for his countless scams and theft of our cash has an opportunity to get his "autograph" on some legal paperwork.
Phil, he's clearly hoping this follows him less as time passes. It's always worked for him in the past before social media.
Another month with zero progress or any updates. I guess yearly updates of "sorry, going to be another year" is the business model here.
Jolly, just issuing a ridiculous date cannot set aside Ken's obligations to his customers, especially when we have previous statements contradicting his latest ones, surely?
Happy Halloween everyone! Everyone's dressing as Faeries, Witches, Unicorns, and other mythical nonexistant beings, so I'm thinking of dressing as a finished KODT LAS DVD, or maybe a 20 Years of Covers softcover book!
Granted, it's hard to imagine what those sort of imaginary things look like, they don't exist after all, but if Whitman was able to dress up as a respectable director years ago, I figure it can't be that hard!
Sadly Ravenknight that's because he's kicked the can down the road another year and we won't be seeing or hearing much until people start demanding answers when nothing happens with the new date. And then he'll kick that can down the road some more.
And two more weeks passed without communication from mr Whitman.
Legally speaking, my last comment was a "joke"
A story due to the KODT: LAS Kickstarter.
After Pencil Dice rose from the ashes of this KickStarter ... so did Knights of the Dinner Table Chibi Miniatures
Because of my love for KODT, I was an eager backer of the KODT: LAS KickStarter. I have been a bit horrified to see Jolly Blackburn's wonderful IP left in the dust of this KickStarter gone off the tracks. This upset me for several reasons. 1) Jolly is a great individual and known benefactor of the gaming community. 2) KickStarter is a major investment tool of my company and when one goes badly in the fantasy/gaming realm it means my possible future backers might not want to back another KickStarter and 3) The Creator has been regularly abusing the backers.
As a result of all this ... I've done what I could to help. I've helped get data on the backers to assist verifying claims by the Creator. When it was revealed he had sold backer rewards to a retail outlet instead of sending them to the backers, I sent free product to the retail outlet that they could sell to cover the cost of shipping those items as rewards to the backers who should have received them.
During all of this, I mentioned to Jolly in July 2015 that I would love to run a KickStarter with the KODT IP so that I could give him what I believe would be a very positive experience with a KickStarter of his licensed IP. Jolly let me know he was not against trying another KODT KickStarter. This led to a year of conversations about what would the design of the miniatures would be, art proof of concepts for approval and even a Kenzer & Co employee sucking on a prototype model at Gen Con 2016 to try and figure out what chemicals were in the model when Jolly wondered. All events leading to a license contract signed on September 26, 2016 to bring you this project!
I don't think thats the case Phil. I think we could go the legal court route if we wanted, but we need someone on the ground to talk to a lawyer near him to get us some estimates.
Legally, Ken only has to fob us off once every two months
And once again: nothing but silence. During the last month we got a couple of bloopers that we have seen before alongside (of course) insults towards backers of the project and then... nothing.
Same here - plus I paid a pretty considerable amount & should be getting more than just the disks anyway (not that I think i'm getting anything.)
Chad, I didn't see the survey but I want discs, not downloads. I paid for a tangible product. It isn't our responsibility to make fulfilling his commitments easy for Ken.
One of those "Nos" did say it would be acceptable under certain conditions (No involvement from Ken and an apology).
I wont draw any conclusions from it, as numbers are low. But it does suggest that people would not accept anything less than what they've been promised.
However, I do suggest Ken, for his own sake, does his own survey, sent out as an update, asking the entire backer community if they'd take it. He's more likely to get a significant sample than me.
So, to the survey I linked to, I got 9 responses.
Bearing in mind that this is a low number of responses, and that the link would only have been seen by the most "noisy" of us. 7 people insisted on physical discs, 2 would be happy with downloads instead.
I think it's safe to say that they don't seem to care very much.
"Be respectful and considerate." I must confess, Kickstarter. I'm finding that extremely hard to do regarding this creator when he actively bullies and harasses his backers.
One has to wonder if the background was changed to that image with the copyright holders permission.... And if that Copyright owner might be inclined to submit a DMCA.
Never mind me, just wondering aloud.
Just a kick in the ribs. Blooper reels....really don't care about bloopers when the product is unfinished.
Just the kind of class act I've come to expect from mr Whitman.
I noticed that K. Carson - a bit of salt in the wound for some I would think.
Lovely, that new background picture's the "20 years of KODT Covers" book I paid Ken Whitman for and never received. He must be bored.
Every time I read the latest on this fiasco I get so annoyed that I go buy more Knights of the Dinner Table books because there isn't anything else I can do to support Kenzer and Jolly right now. It's a shame this project is still in limbo.
Oh, new background picture? Did Ken upload that?
yeah too bad there is nothing new here.
I'm not convinced that showing us bloopers that we've already seen cause they were at the end of episode 1, 2 and 3 is evidence he's 'working on a blooper reel'
My emphasis isn't on revenge but making these issues of breach of contract, fraud, libel, etc., a matter of public record to prevent other people from being hurt in future. If the information websites detailing these issues do that and potential victims search for them, that will suffice. However, there is still a lot of unanswered questions. I'm particularly curious about Ken's statement that he has now had to buy new equipment since that bought with this project's funds is now outdated so he's not using that same equipment? Is the project done or not?
Please remember that while I understand the balance of getting what we paid for from him and his possible intention to file bankruptcy to avoid fulfilling his contractual obligations, none of this is our fault and it's not up to us, already defrauded and disappointed, to make this process easy for him! He either mans up and gets it done, tries to salvage his reputation in doing so, or he sinks himself even further and this will haunt him for the rest of his life. It won't go away but he can make it right and regain some self-respect. If he takes the easy way out, bankruptcy, this will never go away and will follow him through any other venture he tries. It's in his own best interest to do the right thing, in my opinion.
I will abide by whatever the majority thinks we should do. I'm offering my financial support. Is it money wasted to force a legal battle or is it the only way we can get what's owed? How long is too long to wait for him to deliver? What is our ultimate goal; delivery on product paid for and then let it go? I've stayed out of this for the most part up until now but can't stand the thought of anyone else getting taken in future by this kind of thing. What do you all think?
If we're going to go that route, we're going to need an estimate from a lawyer so we can budget this thing properly.
Although the contract was agreed when he was in Kentucky, the Atlanta address for Whit Studios suggests that his domicile is now in Georgia, so we should be looking for a Georgian court action and Georgian lawyer.
I just want to reiterate if we're going to do that, it's going to be an act of "vengeance" rather than "refund". He's got no cash for us to be paid, so after we get a court order to terminate the contract, we're looking at paying for an attempt to enforce the verdict, then a further case to push him into bankruptcy.
For the above reason "no win no fee" isn't likely to be open to us - we're looking at being forced to pay no matter what.
We're also looking at a situation where defences from Ken could bring the costs higher than the original estimate, unless a fixed fee contract can be arranged with the lawyer.
Is anyone from the Atlanta/Georgia area who'd have the time and ability to call in to a few practices and getting us some estimates based on a no defence and robust defence secenario?
Why is he "working on a blooper reel" when he hasn't finished the original commitments? I'll contribute to a fund to pursue this legally! All of the lying, cons, libel, character assassination, excuses and simple dishonest business practices needs to be documented and made a matter of public record to keep other people from being misled in the future! As for allegations of damaging Mr Whitman's work prospects I consider it more protecting those who might be equally vulnerable to losing time and money by trusting someone who is unable to deliver! Mr. Whitman might try pursuing gainful employment in another field where he is qualified, whatever that would be. If something isn't working you go on to something that is, not dig yourself a deeper hole. So, what should we do? Individual small claims court filings per person? A blanket suit? Mr. Kenner is an attorney; has Kenner filed against Ken?
At least we got an update concerning the product instead of childish slander. Seems that discussions about legal proceedings is the way to go.
I long long ago gave up on getting any reward from the project. However I would donate to a GoFundMe that had a specific plan to serve Ken if the goal of the legal proceedings was to force him to surrender everything related to the KODT KS (financials, footage, etc.) to ZOE and Kenzer. At this point Ken can keep his ill-gained equipment ... I have no desire to not allow him to eat. But because I love KODT and massively respect Jolly Blackburn ... if a legal proceeding allowed this chapter to close ... I'd support it.
Now we apparently have a service address, do we want to look at some sort of crowdfunding campaign to force the issue in the courts?
Looks like Mr. Whitman finally has an address, at "Whit Studios", for anyone interested, for serving legal notices, attorney general letters, etc.
Address below. Nice place, and nice to see he describes funders as "sugar mommas & sugar daddies", and that the equipment he's still using from this project as "his own". Classy as always.
Chad I guarantee it's not finished. If it was he'd be crowing about it. Posting little clips, etc.
If that footage that is done is the same footage he uploaded a year ago, then no its not done. Its full of glaring problems that can be fixed. The final episode looked akin to being filmed by my old camcorder.
I have a fairly low standard at this point for the project, but I do want something that is watchable and not making me grimace. As for a digital only download of the product, I'm so disgusted by that idea that I'm going to leave this here and go for a walk.
No, it wont happen. Ken is too proud to allow anyone else to "take credit", hence why the opening gambit was a proposal that would ensure that he got it.
I think the footage is done, so there's no need to hand it over to ZoE. I'm confident the question is one of Furfilment now.
Ken needs to step up, be honest about where the project is and what he can reasonably do to bring it to a conclusion.
I agree 100%, Tash. Ken is not a child . Nor is he a green creator. As he boasts, he's been publishing and producing for over 25 years. He is the ONLY person he knows the status of this project and the ONLY person with any power whatsoever to finish it. And if he can't do that he's the only person who can communicate what is needed and where a helping hand can be lent.
Unfortunately all trust has been destroyed.
For this to move forward he has to step up and lead the way.
But that's not going to happen.
Oh I'm 100% certain he's broke.
for me, all I want is for him to admit he can't finish it on his own and give the footage to ZOE so they can get it out for everyone.
That would be the best outcome as far as I'm concerned.
Okay, lets presume that he was lying, and he's just trying to kick the can down the road, there is no car accident (which I'm inclined to believe - hence my post in the first place).
We're looking at a guy who doesn't have his (ex) wife's expensive hotel, doesn't have regular income from Rapid POD, Doesn't have a product to sell, and has had to in the course of 4 or 5 kickstarters had to go to some petty minor things to try to get the money coming in. There doesn't seem to be much in Ken's income column.
Ken obviously will need money for living expenses - Rent, Food, etc. Logic dictates that he must have some outgoings.
I honestly believe the guy is broke, even if he's lied about everything else, everything up to date I think leads to that conclusion. He has no money.
There's no point in hounding a broke man for money, even if he wants to give it to you (and I don't put Ken in that category).
The question is what do we do now. The way I see it the three routes are:
1. Force Ken into bankruptcy (which means finding him, getting a court to make an order for breach of contract damages, then going to court again when he doesn't pay up - all of this is going to cost us money).
2. Somehow Normalise the situation. Agree to change things so Ken can actually deliver. I've tried this, I think Jolly's tried this. Ken, If you are reading this, the only route I see is to see if backers will take the product in the state you can deliver it without further cost.
3. Cut our losses and forget the whole thing ever happened.
I don't know what that means for Jolly. If the KODT footage is in the state that Ken is supposed to deliver it, then there might be an argument that the footage is already your property Jolly (I'm desperately trying to remember my property law classes, but the textbook sadly, well, see the comments as to what happened to that, and in any case probably wouldn't be that useful as it would be Scottish law, which is based on Roman property law and not Common property law like I imagine the US is) and you might be able to force him to hand it over in court. Although delivery is not due to be done until the condition of delivering it to us is complete, maybe there is an arugment in there that as he has no apparent intention to deliver it to us, he's not dealing fairly with you and that condition should therefore be set aside.
Chad, you seem like a nice guy. And you're trying to help.
but I'm sorry, Ken's comments to you have a distinct smell of BS to me. I just can't trust anything he says, and I strongly believe his delay till next year has nothing to do with not being able to afford shipping and everything to do with holding it back on purpose out of spite.
I don't believe any of that stuff about his car either sorry. And I don't think he's using a cent of the cash he's earning from filming to finish our project off.
he has a LOOOOONG history of lying and he's trying to catch you in his web.