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I have finally received my "Art Collector" package. For those wondering it has been sent on 06-07-2017.
@Cyan: When can I expect receiving the "boxes"?
There have been many types of DRM over the years, including things like off disk copy protection.
I suggest you go watch "LGR - History of DRM & Copy Protection in Computer Games " https://www.youtube.com/watch…
Btw. I don't really know how to interpret your answer regarding B, what's the purpose of the DVD-check:
If it isn't copy protection but still being "a major pain in the ass", what was there goal?
Did the game developers just wanted to mess with backers and annoy the hell out of them for fun?
"You can make a disc image onto the hdd and not need to use ANY emulation to make it work with a virtual drive, this is zero protection here."
Yes, you can make a DVD image and CIRCUMVENT THE COPY PROTECTION. You can't just install the game and throw the DVD away and you can't just copy the game off the DVD and throw it away.
The DVD is basically a hardware key. Yes, you can make a virtual image and use DVD-drive emulation to CIRCUMVENT having a hardware DVD-check. It doesn't matter how easy or hard this is (actually having to rely on CD/DVD emulation + needing twice as much disk space is just ridiculous).
a) OK, we agree with copy protection being DRM.
b) We disagree here. DVD-Checks are copy protection, no matter how easy they are to circumvent.
Other (oldschool) copy protections are game manuals or code wheels. They can be circumvented too of course. You just need a copy machines or scanners.
But it's still a copy protection, even when it doesn't prevent "backups".
DRM comes in a wide range of implementations. Copy protection are just a part of it. And then copy protections come in a wide range of implementations too.
From always-online requirements to manual look-ups, a lot is possible. If it's an easy or a more sophisticated CD/DVD check doesn't matter, it is DRM by definition.
Also DRM is meant to make using the product harder by definition. As always it only affects paying customers and "pirates" get the better product.
Listen I'll explain this better and give some examples and I'll also answer your questions. Firstly, I mean anything can copy it as a 1:1 backup without any modifications to the files or the image. As anything, I'm referring to any cd/dvd/media burning software out there, Nero, Ashampoo etc...., nothing like Alcohol 120% or Blindwrite which must make modifications depending on the DRM used. One copy protection is Securom. It has had many versions of preventing cd/dvd burning software making copies/backups in the past. It began with sub channel data written on a cd. Most burners & software at that time couldn't write this data, this prevented people from making a backup of it (Diablo 2 I'll use as an example). With Obduction you can use any single piece of software made to backup non-copy protected discs to burn Obduction to another disc and it WILL PLAY. You can make a disc image onto the hdd and not need to use ANY emulation to make it work with a virtual drive, this is zero protection here.
A. Copy protection methods are DRM, Obduction has ZERO ways of preventing any burning software or image making software to deal with this, because its not protected! Please visit some websites for burning discs and they will say, this software can't copy copy protected software but it will be able to do Obduction because there is none. Try it and you'll see.
B. No a DVD-Check is only that a DVD-Check, it doesn't check for physical errors on the disc like safedisc did to prevent you from burning a copy or needing emuation. Any burning/imaging software will make a 1:1 copy.
You see those days are long gone with disc check only unless its stated as DRM-FREE as in most kickstarters are. But you'll see this same issue being brought up every time, it checks for the disc so it has DRM. If you can't make a backup, then call it DRM. When you're prevented from using windows dvd burning software or anything similar from allowing you to copy it, that is DRM but Obduction can be backed up as I've said.
I'm agreeing with you its a major pain in the ass having to find your disc, but its just an annoyance, but if your prevented on making a backup only then is it DRM. Remember when people were furious about not being able to make backups of their original discs, be it having to be kept in the drive or not then, that is when DRM was the issue. I have always hated using my original discs and always would use a backup disc when possible as I want to keep my original disc from breaking and having to buy another one.
I'm not trying to be an ass here about it, I'm trying to explain it, but many people do confuse the two because yes they can look the same from an end user's point of view. Another example, Safedisc does check for the disc in the drive BUT it also does even more that this, it checks for errors on the disc too, this is what is preventing you making a backup of this disc. Regular burning software can't write those errors to the cdr/dvdr. While you may think it's just a no cd/dvd check crack your looking for it's actually a lot more going on that needs to be circumvented to bypass. This exe has Safedisc removed which did the check for the disc then the checking of the errors, then unwrapping the original exe (which Obduction is) in memory which is allowed to run.
I hope I've explained it now, make a backup onto another dvd with any free disc copying software, did it work? That's whats in question. I'm off to bed as I'm dozing and hope its clear.
Just because there are ways to circumvent copy protection and DRM doesn't mean it's not there in the first place (and also depending on the country it may be illegal).
a) Do you agree that copy protection mechanisms are DRM?
b) What do you think is the purpose of the Obduction DVD-Check? I'd say it's a copy protection.
@Martin They way Obduction has a simple disc check isn't a prevention of copying it when ANYTHING CAN COPY IT can you not understand that??? Sure its a pain in the ass, that's all it is period! I'm not going to continue trying to explain the difference, if you don't understand from what I've said, you never will.
It's completely irrelevant if they are using a 3rd party library or have written their own code. The purpose of checking for a CD/DVD is so you can't just copy the game (e.g. to a local drive or USB drive) and play it everywhere (-> DRM).
Needing a CD/DVD in a drive (although having made a full install) is complete bullshit from a user experience point of view. I'm not a DJ! And I don't like to having moving parts or stuff I can lose in my computers anyway.
It seems like you are claiming to know how technology works but at the same time denying a CD/DVD-check being DRM, you must be kidding.
Sure, it wasn't called DRM back then but this doesn't change it's whole purpose is being a copy protection i.e. DRM.
But if we'd assume it's not DRM, what is it then? They just added it to annoy legitimate buyers of the game, what for? Just for the heck of it?
@Martin if your game had securom or lets say safedisc from back then and it was doing a disc check, yes that was a 3rd party wrapper on the exe and prevented most software from copying them, DRM. If its a simple check with api calls GetDriveType & GetVolumeInformationA to see if the disc is in the drive and only this (which Obduction does), its NOT DRM.
A CD/DVD check isn't DRM. Look up what it actually means and you'll see what I'm talking about. The digital rights management came along when securom and safedisc/safecast came about. Disc checks have been around since The 7th Guest, nobody called this DRM, the api. You have the two confused as being the same, a disc check isn't a 3rd party wrapper or means of combating copying the disc or game because any burner can copy and write the Obduction disc, there is ZERO means of any prevention of making a backup disc. If you're still on believing a disc check in this matter is DRM then I know your level of understanding how this technology works and the differences between them. There is no point in arguing the point then.
I'm at the "Art Collector" pledge level and haven't received game box, art of Obduction and the rest of the physical rewards (the T-shirt has been delivered long time ago). Is it possible to get a tracking number?
@DeeZaster: It is DRM.
I really thought the times were over where the first thing you have to do after buying a game is downloading a no-CD/DVD crack.
@DeeZaster, Ahh but it doesn't need to load any files off of the disc. It runs a check to make sure you have the disc in the drive.
It is indeed DRM.
@Overmann Having a Disc kept in the drive is NOT DRM. The executable isn't wrapped with a 3rd party anti-copying protection.
I would like to play this without having to have the DVD in drive at all times
"Gimme the Box Receive an exclusive Obduction special boxed edition"
I only got a case, and no box.
"Will Obduction be DRM-free
Yes. The physical boxed game will be DRM-free, and the digital download will be available DRM-free depending on the distributor."
The case copy is not DRM free.
Received my box, poster, postcards, art print and art book on Thursday last week here in Germany.
Must admit that I'm very happy with the rewards. Yes, the postcards are a bit too dark, the art book is pretty standard (and did you really have to write "The Art of Obduction" on every page even when they are full page images) ... but it all looks great and the signed poster is fantastic!
That was quite a long journey but we've arrived at the end and I hop that Cyan will find the power and resources to start another adventure game project!
@Simon I found the Artbook now thanks to you. I've posted many times @Cyan for the location of the Artbook and never got a reply. Thanks again for the info.
@Simon Thanks for the clear steps! I found the artbook. It was only added last week and I had no idea.
BTW, I got the box/artbook and the game last night for the Art Collector tier. I am pretty happy with it... and I quite like the slim design of the case personally, but I gotta admit I am more of a utility kinda person and not so much box person. I remember years ago when the boxes were huge I generally chucked them out anyways because they take up so much room.
@ Angela, you should be able to access it via the humblebundle website. Once you log into the website, goto your account, then purchases, then select obduction, in the section that says "Choose platform", pick eBooks, and the artbook should appear there.
@CYAN Where's the digital artbook? I don't believe I've received mine yet...
@ Tom Van Derek Spek I'm not going to get into the debate of kickstarter being a shop, it's a very grey matter. As so being able to sign the disc, yes it is possible. The Sharpe pens that are silver in colour are made to be seen on black and will not smudge on plastic. I have contacted Cyan on the matter and have received a reply. The matter is being looked into and I will know more later.
I received my 'Art Collector'-package 30 minutes ago (while wearing my Obduction t-shirt :-) ). The game is great and so are the rewards. Thanks CYAN!
Has anyone in Australia received the art collector tier of the reward by any chance? Maybe I'm just being a little too optimistic about international delivery but I'm quite excited about receiving my goodies!
@ DeeZaster: I was at the same tier as you and yeah, the text is clear, but I think it is impossible to sign the slightly soft black plastic of which the disk is made. And for $75 extra you also get the soundtrack on CD.
Yeah, I must say that considering the total amount of money we had to pay for this tier and what we get for it, not for everybody this should be 'value for money', but we must keep in mind that Kickstarter isn't a shop and that a significant part of our money is spent for the development of the game itself. I am glad I have all physical goods at last, and now can fully enjoy Obduction!
Thanks for the reply Tom Van Derek Spek but the tier says that the disc will be signed. So Cyan didn't sign anyone's disc? Here is my tier:
NEW REWARD TIER. Receive a Kickstarter exclusive Obduction disc-golf disc that will be signed by the Obduction team, AND get a Kickstarter exclusive compact disc of the Obduction soundtrack. Both of these items are designed exclusively for (and will be available only through) this Kickstarter campaign. Your name will be featured in the “Disc Backers" section of the credits. (+ all previous rewards)
We all paid $75 more for a golf disc only makes no sense, they should be signed!
@ DeeZaster - Yeah, the golf disc is black and not signed. Inside the art book is a leaflet which is signed by all the teammembers. And, as part of this tier, you've got a small poster too, also with all signatures.
Double Disc Tier
Has anyone received their golf disc yet? I got mine and opened it today, it's not signed. Also the art book, are the signatures on the inside? My art book is sealed, I haven't opened it yet but so far my golf disc is black with the obduction logo and nothing else but a couple numbers on the back in pen.
Does anyone know the email address for customer support? My artbook arrived damaged. Everything else looks awesome.
@CYAN; You got the physical rewards out, now what about the digital Artbook, Where is it?
Btw. their FAQ explicitly states:
"Will Obduction be DRM-free?
Yes. The physical boxed game will be DRM-free, and the digital download will be available DRM-free depending on the distributor."
Today all my physical rewards arrived at my doorstep in the Netherlands! I am very happy with it! About the box, much has been said, but it is ok for me, because what is INSIDE is the most important! About that, I only can say... "wow!" Installation went smoothly and graphics are wonderful when set on the highest possible resolution (my pc can handle that). I love the soundtrack too, nice poster and art book, but I must say I expected more text.
This is a real nice add to all the Myst (Riven, URU) games I have.
Worth the wait! Thanks Cyan!
Excellent timing Cyan! My Art Collector rewards arrived on my birthday! Greatest gift ever, thanks! I love the signed poster, the artbook is beautiful and the certificate is a nice touch. Much appreciated. And thank you for the beautiful game you made.
Got my rewards! THANK YOU CYAN.
The Art Collector box just made my day! Love everything in it and I am so glad I chose it. Thanks for letting me be a part of this fabulous game!
Got my Art Collector box today. Everything is awesome! Thanks for all the hard work folks. I can't wait to frame the poster. The art book is beautiful.
I got my Art Collector rewards yesterday. I know the game "box" has cause quite a stir with backers, but I'm happy with it. As a graphic designer, I get the concept behind the sleeve and the minimalistic design. I'm also very happy with the prints, poster and art book. I was expecting a simple paperback book, so a full hardcover book was a nice surprise! Thank you Cyan!
I just got my art collector rewards yesterday, and I'm really happy with them. I live on the east cost of the U.S. so for anyone else waiting for theirs it could be coming soon. I don't understand why people don't love the boxed copy of the game, I think it's perfect. All I expected was a little cardboard box with a paper sleeve in it like the old riven box, this clear plastic box is sturdier and lets you see the seed print on the disc. Thank you Cyan!
I'm also at the art collector level and I have not received any of the physical rewards. I would love to see the packing that has caused such a stir, but I havent gotten the game yet. I didn't even get the T-shirt they sent out at the beginning, even though my backer receipt says it was sent. I have emailed Cyan multiple times asking for help, or information, or a status update, or ANY kind of communication. I have yet to get any kind of answer. From the comments it sounds like I'm not the only one who is experiencing this? Has anyone else tried to email Cyan? What backers at what levels have gotten their rewards?
Anyone know how to access the digital Art Book?
Got My rewards today
I received my obduction game in the mail and was about to put it on the shelf because I thought I didn't have the system requirements which I didn't and could not afford the upgrade anyway thought I would give it a shot and install it. well I just about fell over it works and I still cant get over it..its a beautiful game I am so happy
I'm the art collector level, but I haven't gotten any of the rewards yet. I got the emailand verified my address was current but still nothing...
I actually liked the packaging of the game but for me the most important part is the game itself. I contributed to this project because I love this company and their games. They made a promise and I feel upheld it by producing a great game . The extras were just icing on the cake.
Now that everyone that was butt hurt about the box has had there say, any idea when the east coast will receive packages? I'm assuming they've all been mailed out? Thanks for making a great game guys. Having game developer friends, I know full well the long hours and dedication that goes into making a great game. I look forward to your next one.
Just received my backer package, and everything is top notch! Thank you Cyan!