by Peter Hauser
This better fix the issue where the watch, while in "vibrate only" mode, beeps unendingly when it disconnects.
Are you offering refunds for Android users?
It was bad enough the way you hooked us all in with your vague descriptions, but we've been waiting patiently for months for news.
It's sickening to see you repeatedly talking about updating your iOS app when you haven't even released a beta for us Android users. Why wasn't there a focus group put together in the last three months to get something out for Android? Yeah, I read your update about why your team thinks they can't develop for Android.. and I also read a lot of suggestions about how you could get SOMEthing working in the meantime. What happened to that? And seriously Android owns a majority of the market share and is heading towards 2x what iOS does - how does this even make sense from your end of things?
I'm kinda done waiting, to be honest. I'm annoyed that now I won't even be getting emails from you but now I have to go seek you out on your website for updates. I haven't heard anything as it pertains to me since November - and now I need to keep track of you for updates?
No thanks. I'll take my money back, please. And if you're not refunding folks, I'll take my watch now so I can sell it on eBay and cut my losses.
I feel the same way with Jake...is there a refund option for us android users, this is ridiculous, I don't understand how pebble had gotten there watch to android users but you guys can't seem to get it, have you guys tried connecting with the possible people, had I known it would have been like this, I would have backed them (given the fact that the start of funding was almost the same) why is ios of more importance, I understand the fragmentation can have problem but on your website give out the alpha or beta to everyone, not just a select few or you just have us a very expensive analog watch
The Pebble uses the standard Bluetooth stack, BT2.1+ EDR, which works on Android. Cookoo uses Bluetooth Low Energy, BT4.0, which does not work on Android. It's that simple. The APIs they're using now haven't been released yet.
Same thing to Jake, you can be "sickened" all you want, but they owe their iPhone users just as much and unlike Google, Samsung, or HTC, Apple actually provided the tools for developers to use the features they put on their phone.
Pebble says it supports BT4.0, but that's not what it uses to connect.
I do think Cookoo should be giving refunds, because they promised something they ended up not being able to deliver anywhere near the timeframe they promised, but acting like they're somehow missing something obvious or easy isn't going to help, it's just being a dick.
Don't care if it's me being a dick any more.
I was told the product would work with my device.
Then I was told I would have to wait.
Then I was told there was progress in November.
Then I was told that my phone would be one of the first that the app was developed for.
Now it's three months later, and what do I have? "we were able to advance our Android app. "
Well, that and "we're not going to update you anymore. You have to come find it."
They had the opportunity to change the tech before this became an issue. It was shoddy R&D on their part that they missed the fact that this was going to be an issue.
Don't really care if I'm being a dick, I'm not here to make friends. I've had money tied up in this for over a half year now and the only thing I've seen is results for people who aren't me.
That is the risk we all take when you back a project.
I have put my reward on hold untill the android app would be released
But that will take a while. While I am still waiting in anticipation for my reward to
Come if I would have to choose between the reward or a refund I would choose to be refunded.
I hope the team respects the decision and understand the reasons for this
What a scam. Anybody wanna buy a "watch" - I mean, I a brick?
haven't seen such an ignorance of the backers by any creator in any of the other projects I have backed. Walking away from updating the backers via kickstarters platform before you have fullfilled all rewards is unacceptable.
For your information I have officially complained to Kickstarter about this and ask them to take respective steps. While it may not interest you anymore at least I hope it will stop you from being able to use Kickstarter in the future to collect money.
At this point I agree with other backers. I really don't care if I'm being a pushy backer at this point. Originally we were promised working apps with the launch of the watch. Your original listing dates that the estimated delivery for this is Nov 2012. I understand there have been issues and that's too be expected. There are some issues however that have arisen. First, the fact that when listing your estimated ship dates you should have planned for any issues or at bare minimum the possibility of something going wrong. Two, we were told in January to expect a BETA of the Android app in February. We now sit in mid-February, three months after the estimated fulfillment of the original product without any hope as to when a proper release of an Android app will be finished. Not only is this unacceptable, but the app is only guaranteed to be in BETA form while not being in it's complete form. This project has gone far beyond unacceptable and this has turned into a horrible investment. At this point I would politely like to ask for a refund. This has gone way too far.
It's not a "risk we all take when you back project". Kickstarter is made for working projects with hope of success. This has turned into a complete failure.
i never said that what is happening is right and i agree that this has gone far enough to be a joke.
if you read the FAQ from kickstarter it says the following:
1. It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
2. It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
3. Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
4. Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?
No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators, and creators receive all funds (after fees) soon after their campaign ends. Creators have the ability to refund backers through Amazon Payments (for US projects) and Kickstarter (for UK projects).
If anyone is wondering why Nike abandoned developing the FuelBand app for Android, look no further than the painful ignorance displayed in the comments below. Why keep trying to appease people that respond like this? It's one thing to be angry, it's quite another to be ignorant, loud and angry.
The Cookoo devs can be blamed for offering a totally unrealistic timeline, but guess what? Nike did that too before abandoning the project altogether. Why? Because the Bluetooth 4 situation on Android is totally fucked. Nobody building Bluetooth 4 devices saw this coming, and the brunt of your rage should be directed at Google, the actual company responsible for causing these issues.
"Changing the tech" was never an option, unless you're aware of some other wireless protocol that fits the bill. If you wanted a Pebble, you should have bought a Pebble. The main promise of the Cookoo was that it doesn't need to be recharged. If they had switched to Bluetooth 2.1 to accommodate the terrible Bluetooth 4 support Android offers, they would have broken their main promise to 100% of their backers to please a small handful of you, most of whom would be here complaining that they were promised a watch they didn't have to recharge.
> And seriously Android owns a majority of the market share and is heading towards 2x what iOS does - how does this even make sense from your end of things?
Because worldwide markershare means little to nothing when we're talking about a device that is sold on a North American focused website? If you check those numbers, you'll notice they apply to places where Kickstarter usage is near non-existent. In the US & Canada, iOS markershare is around 50% and soundly eclipses Android.
Be pissed all you want, demand your money back, that's more than fine. The hands of the Cookoo devs are far from clean and there is plenty to be legitimately pissed about. However, there is no need to display your ignorance by saying idiotic things like the below. It's "sickening" that they're supporting the customers they can support? Give me a fucking break.
While it's not unreasonable to face delays with Bluetooth implementation, it's completely wrong to stop updating here before the project is complete, and quite possibly against the Kickstarter policies. No one reasonable is complaining about the technical delays - they're complaining about the pathetic communication.
Hey Ross, couple of points for you.
First of all Android OS is soundly destroying iOS' numbers in the US. The last metric had Android over 50% and iOS at around 30%. (http://bgr.com/2012/07/02/android-market-share-us-smartphone-iphone/ has July's numbers laid out neatly, if you look deeper, you'll see it only trends higher for Android). It makes no business sense to program for the minority while you ignore the majority.
Second of all, they knew about the problems early enough that 2.1 could have been implemented in the first round of tech. I would much rather HAVE a watch right now that I could use as opposed to nothing. Meeting a deadline for a product is more important than all of the features being present. At the very least, we could have been offered a choice or, y'know, the option to back out while there was still time to do so. Or, y'know, them not promising it in the first place when they didn't know they could execute.
And I'm sorry if complaining about the technical delays makes me "unreasonable". If it was something minor not working right, I'd be a lot more forgiving. In NOVEMBER, when they told us there'd be progress soon, but not by the deadline, I was a lot more forgiving. The inability to assess and understand the situation for 2/3s of your potential customer base isn't something I'm really willing to let go. It's just shitty business.
No, it's not a risk we all take. This isn't venture capitalism, this is crowd funding. We gave them money in good faith so they could produce a product. They did not produce the product they said they would/could. I didn't sign up for that risk.
I signed up to give them money before the product was there so they could afford to develop it.
These year-end numbers have Android OS over 68% and iOS at around almost 19% of market share.
(Numbers below are international. My point stands though.)
So, I got my watch! But there's a problem. When a phone call comes in, the watch vibrates. On the first ring. And that's it.
The vibration is totally missable. "Subtle" is not a term I was hoping would apply to this. I was hoping for something more like "continuous" or "repeatedly until the phone is answered or goes to voicemail" or, at the least, "six or seven times unless acknowledged".
Has anyone else gotten their watches and felt that the "incoming call" alert is totally insufficient? Will the developer API allow us to change this behavior ourselves?
I understand that these Kickstarter projects are temperamental but what really bugs the hell out of me is that there continues to be ANY continued effort toward the iOS app updates when the Android app isn't available at all. Now I am no programmer so I don't know if you hire an Android app developer or an iOS developer but if they are one in the same I fully expect every available body over there to work on the solution for Android backers.
A couple points for you, Jake.
Those numbers are out of date, which is why you choose them. Update your iOS FUD folder, because these are the current numbers: http://bgr.com/2012/11/27/iphone-5-market-share-october-2012/
Like I said, iOS has overtaken Android in North America. So, you're flat out wrong there. Your "year end" numbers are worldwide marketshare, once again, chosen intentionally to boost your point. Once again, irrelevant.
Secondly, adding 2.1 was an option but would have broken the key promise to 100% of backers, **does not need to be recharged**
So, you're wrong there too. 2.1 was never an option. If we wanted a watch that needed constant recharging, we could have bought a Pebble. Breaking one of the key promises to all backers to please a vocal minority isn't an option. To act like it is, is just pure obtuse selfishness
Finally, to all of you, iOS devs and Android devs aren't the same. Totally different languages, totally different teams. You might as well get pissed at someone translating a book into Spanish while neglecting the French version. Newsflash: He doesn't speak French. They work separately, and just because one is easier to write for than the other means nothing, except that writing for your platform is hard. Get over it.
Complaining is fine, fundamentally I still agree that they've broken their promise to Android backers and are continually setting unrealistic timelines.
That's still no excuse to be obnoxiously obtuse & ignorant.
> "Now I am no programmer so I don't know..."
So stop talking then. You don't know, you're wrong, and it bitching about the other kid having a better toy so it had better break or you'll throw a tantrum comes off as insanely childish sour grapes.
They are developed by different teams, and iOS is easier to build for when it comes to Bluetooth 4 devices. That's it. If you don't like it, the last person to blame is the Cookoo team. They are still trying to help. Blame Google, your device manufacturer, or yourself for buying a phone that has crappy, half assed suppprt for the device you want to use.
The Cookoo team screwed up in a bunch of ways. But blaming the current Android situation on them is nothing but pure, willful ignorance and it's genuinely shameful.
Ross, that's the first 12 weeks of sales from when the iPhone 5 was released. That is not a metric of devices that are currently using which OS. That does not represent who is using what out there, just that the iPhone happened to sell almost as many devices as Android in the first 12 weeks it was on the market. Sales != Market Share
There is a HUGE difference between mobile subscribers and mobile sales in a quarter. People don't buy a new phone every quarter.
iOS has not overtaken Android in North America in market share. Just in sales for one quarter. :)
Secondly, when I paid for this product, I didn't know shit about Bluetooth, how the connectivity worked, etc. and I damned well shouldn't have had to. Your point is once again moot. The product promised something they could not deliver on. Regardless of who did what, that is not my fault. That is the fault of the manufacturer. Period. If it was untried/untested technology (no matter who promised what), it should not have been advertised as a certainty. I'm sorry if that annoys me and I feel the need to express that annoyance. I'm sorry that you're annoyed that I'm expressing my annoyance. You still haven't made a good point in defense of them falsely advertising their product.
The group of us isn't blaming the "current Android situation" on them. We're blaming them for making promises about a product, taking startup money, and not even knowing if what they claimed could happen would actually work while they did it.
And I really couldn't care less what your opinion of my behavior is. Scolding me on a comment thread isn't really having much of an effect. :)
(Sorry, that iOS sold MORE devices in 12 weeks. My bad below)
And finally, I find it rather telling that this conversation has been going on for a couple days now and we still haven't heard from Project Team. I've requested a refund twice now and still haven't received a response.
I haven't heard anything either Jake
I too have requested a refund and have heard nothing
That is of course emailing there now "COMMUNICATION" centric email
Peter: As a supporter of your project and as a backer, I hereby demand continued accountability by continuing to post updates here while you continue to sort out the Android problems. From http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics ...
"If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator."
We want you to be successful but that success has been based upon our support. So do the right thing and continue to update here on Kickstarter as you're obligated to. Thank you!
Where would we even go on their site for updates? News? Thats nothing but press releases. We understand that Android if fractured and that there have been delays and unforseen problems with the implementation of BT 4. But to say you won't bother giving us information is insulting.
All you have to do is offer a refund (you can then sell those watches at retail so you'll actually come out ahead). At that point you can even announce that you're washing your hands of Android.
Or if you want to keep working on Android simply offer the refund but say you're still working towards Android interoperability but since you can't guarantee when it will work offering the refund is the honest thing to do.
Do either of those things you go from facing a lawsuit (a real possibility) to a company doing its best for its customers.
Excellent. Now I'm getting responses from them arguing my request for a refund, even though they failed to deliver the product they claimed they would.
This is some serious garbage.
For what it's worth, they just refunded me my pledge.
Thanks to them for finally getting this resolved.
Well I think I want my refund back too. If iOS backers were waiting as well I can understand. To Ross the watch sold worldwide and here Android is the majority and thats adding north America.
@Peter you're referring people on facebook to here but this post is referring people to facebook for Android app updates. The updates belong here since it is still to be fulfilled to backers (project is not 100% complete on backer delivery (as promised)). This circular reference need to be cleared up. A lot of the backers here are VERY unhappy with the way Android updates have been handled. It seems that if it's not iOS, don't bother buying one.
If you are an android user don't feel as if the poor customer service is only exclusive to you. My two keyfobs were defective and sent back in January. I have been waiting for over a month. The worst part is Cookoo's refusal to respond to any complaints or inquiries. I want some answers, but at this point I want my money back!
Hey Peter, Can you take a break from swimming in your pool of ill-gotten money to actually put out an Android update?
It's been 6 weeks. Where is our update/news?
From their facebook page:
We appreciate and share in your frustration about the state of affairs in Android. The blocking issue in Android is the absence of a crucial, mandatory Bluetooth 4.0 feature in the currently released Android APIs.
This was explained in detail in the letter to Android users in November:(http://cookoowatch.com/images/Letter%20to%20Android%20users%20of%20the%20COOKOO%20watch%2020121121.pdf).
Furthermore, Google pulled Bluetooth 4.0 support entirely out of Android in November, and has yet to announce when their new Bluetooth 4.0 APIs will be available.
Once official access to the new Bluetooth 4.0 APIs is provided, then we will be able to integrate, test, and release an Android app for the COOKOO watch as quickly as possible.
This is our plan of record, and has not changed since we announced it in November.
In the meanwhile, as our iOS app continues to evolve, we are continuing to evolve our Android app though we will not release it without full Bluetooth 4.0 support.
We encourage you, and all of the Android users who want a COOKOO app, to petition Google and your specific phone's manufacturer to take Bluetooth 4.0 seriously and provide a complete API for Bluetooth 4.0 as soon as possible instead of venting at us on our forums.
For your interest, this article puts it succinctly:
I'm really bored with my wait now. I asked for the Android version to hold back and I'm now at the point where I'm about to buy a new phone. If I didn't hate Apple so much I'd buy one just so I could get my cuckoo, which is kind of messed up.