Hey all, you should check the Guillotine Games facebook page. Good news.
@Michael, I was thinking the same thing. If a character dies you randomly pull one from whoever remains. I suspect you'd run out of people (unless you bought ALL the expanded characters) before you got to the last mission, so it would be more of a "see how far you can get before everyone's dead) sort of thing.
@Quadimus, that would be brilliant! Would probably need more than the 10 scenarios to do it, but would be great.
Campaign rules would be awesome. I would love to see a rules that has survivors trying to gain territory and build strongholds. Random events!
Any chance you could add a note of running it as a campaign? For example, survivors who live through each mission carry on to the next mission with all their equipment and levels. And if you die you pick a new survivor. I think it would mimic the whole "Walking Dead" high attrition rate skilled vs noob survivor ideas. But without playing the game I don't know how unbalancing it would be or if any extra steps would need to be taken.
2 hits and the character dies. There are ways to heal/avoid damage by way of skills and cards that are outlined on page 15 (skills) and briefly on page 14 (see the Goalie Mask blurb in Ned's section there).
But basically, 2 hits and you're dead.
Where does it talk about hit points and player death?
People are talking about crowdsource editing, Logan, not crowdsource rewriting. It worked for Ogre, so it certainly can be done.
"I would assume that on the actual weapon cards, if the range is 0 they are melee and if its higher than 0 they are ranged..."
Let's clarify that a bit. The range of the ranged weapons we know are 0-1 (Pistol), 0-1 (Sub-MG) and 1-3 (Rifle). Furthermore the ranged rules (page 13) tell us "The weapon may not be shot at Zones below the minimum. In most cases this is 0: the Survivor can shoot in the Zone he is in."
So I would say that weapons which ONLY have a "0" range are melee weapons and everything else, even if a 0 range is included, are ranged weapons.
To again stress the point made already made by Andrews please keep in mind that CoolMiniOrNot (CMON) is just the publisher and the game itself is designed by Guillotine Games (GG).
GG is mostly made up of former Rackham staff. Rackham was always known for slightly unclear rules (even in the french original) and bad translations. The english rulebook is exactly what I expected it to be and I will apply the same procedure I applied to Rackham products: Refer to the french rules if possible and if those don't help just go with what feels right.
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This rulebook was final before they even started the kickstarter. There are errors but this isn't WH40K, you can deal with it. As for Crowdsource editing? You kidding me? That is exactly what you want, a mob trying to agree with itself while tearing apart your design. It is fine, the mechanics are solid, leave it at that.
@James Greene I think they did it that way for balancing purposes. Guns can kill zombies a few zones away before they become a problem. With melee, you need to kill every zombie in your zone or you get hurt next round. In that case, you could never have two players on the same square, ever.
Pg 12 reads - "0" is Melee-only.
Even though I knew about the targeting priority of survivors over zombies beforehand it just seems extremely akward . I can almost guarantee if you swing a bat/crowbar/axe in a room full of people you would have a better chance of hitting friendlies versus shooting with a pistol. 00 buckshot in a double-barreled shotgun might be a different story but overall logic tells me I would have no better chance singling out a target with a melee weapon versus firearm. Target size would make more sense in terms of prioritization.
"I would assume that on the actual weapon cards, if the range is 0 they are melee and if its higher than 0 they are ranged..."
That's a reasonable inference, and most people will probably use that approach (if they don't just go by the object depicted), but as none of the rules enforcing a distinction between melee/ranged (targeting, bonuses to one or the other) hinge on the actual weapon range it would have been nice to have had it made explicit. Again, though, it probably doesn't matter unless a future expansion introduces a Range 0 Blunderbuss or a Range 0-1 Really Long Stick.
Arkham Horror uses that mechanic, as one example.
Yup, the first player changes every turn. So if you went first on turn 1, you go last on turn 2, second-to-last on turn 3, etc. This mechanic is becoming more common in games where all players take their turn and then the board takes its turn. I can't remember off the top of my head which other games use this mechanic, but I know I've seen it at least twice before.
@Jonathan R. Woodworth
"General: the distinction between Ranged and Melee weapons is never defined. Unlikely to cause issues as it stands, but could cause headaches if expansions bring more ambiguous weapons."
I would assume that on the actual weapon cards, if the range is 0 they are melee and if its higher than 0 they are ranged... I also think the symbol in parts of the card is different?
The player first token is an interesting one though. Does that mean that every turn, the person who goes first changes? So if you go first in the first turn, you are going to go last in the second turn?
@Brian Moran >> There is. I sent a PM to them yesterday after seeing this post asking if we might be notified of a possible date (before or when we get the game, etc) for getting the editor (Per Update #25) http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/zombicide/posts/216739
No word yet. I/we will hopefully have more info about it soon.
@Andrew : I remember seeing at least one (maybe two?) english teacher offering his services and knowledge for free to help proofreading the rulebook.
@Traveller, on the right and left of the game board in the Grindhouse Mission you place 3 noise counters. Those are not spawn zones, the spawn zones are located inside the building and it seems the zombies will not start coming until you break in due to the zone line of sight rules.
I would have to agree that the rule book is sub-highschool, grammar mistakes and vague explanations abound it also has that feeling of being translated by someone who speaks English as a Second Language. To further address all complaints, IMHO, Guillotine Games is the company behind Zombicide and CMON is the distributor so rule book complaints should be made to the actual guys making the rule book haha. Although they probably could have paid for a professional proofreader or released rules earlier for community revision, I feel like the second option is not as free as one would think. They would need to pay someone to review all requests for "improvement" in their rule book and as such changes are more often subjective than objective. In the case of this rulebook I am more than happy to have gotten the rules and be able to interpret them myself in anticipation of the arrival of the game. This will be my second miniatures board game and I find the rulebook achieves what it sets out to do which is give us the minimum rules and provide us scenarios. There is plenty of room for improvement but it will never be perfect for everyone. Except for the French players, maybe...
Great :) will there be more missions? a mission generator? i seem to recall something like that.
@Eric Fleck, I assumed that you didn't have to break down a door if you started inside a building (which is the only way this can occur, since you can't re-close a door. But the rules don't actually say that, and I you are guaranteed to have the fire axe and a crowbar at the start of the game (well, SOMEONE will have those). So the more I think about it, you probably do have to break down the door.
Very nice ruleset. One observation, whomever did the editing for the little picture boxes should take a second gander.... Some of the wording is very awkward and confusing, but overall it's a very nice ruleset. Now let's get the game!!!
Any tentative ship date?
Rules are nicely laid out; scenarios look very varied and interesting. Some of the Line-of-sight rules seem a bit unusual at first glance, but will probably work fine in play. Can hardly wait!!!
@gary, it says the survivor CAN use the skill once per turn.
I think I just answered my own question. Decent rulebook, overall. Some parts could have been explained better or proofread for clarity. Can't wait to try it out!
p.16 - "Destiny: The Survivor can use this Skill once per turn, when
he reveals an Equipment card he drew. Discard that card
and draw another Equipment card."
Huh? Does this mean when drawing an equipment card you already have in your inventory? What if you draw a second pistol or something, this doesn't make it sound like you have an option to keep it. Can we take this to mean "You may discard that card"?
According to the rules on pg. 8 regarding opening doors, locked doors can *only* be opened with an equipment piece that has the door icon in the upper corner. By this token, is that also assumed for opening doors from the inside...?
I honestly have no real issues. Everything seemed fleshed out to the point where I was able to figure out the necessities. And I usually play 1 or 2 games then never look at the book again so the typos aren't an issue to me. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I will always take higher quality game pieces to a 'perfect' rule book since I can always just come up with house rules.
Am I missing something, on the Grindhouse mission? Can zombies open locked doors? Wouldn't the first turn always be move all surviviours 2 squares deactivate all the counters to the right , then move left for a turn and finish the game on turn 3?
A few points for errata:
General: the distinction between Ranged and Melee weapons is never defined. Unlikely to cause issues as it stands, but could cause headaches if expansions bring more ambiguous weapons.
General: key words are emphasized inconsistently. They're sometimes capitalized (p3: "Zombie", "Survivor", Mission", "Molotov"), sometimes in quotation marks (p9: "'first player' token"), sometimes capitalized /and/ in quotation marks (p6: "'Noises'"), sometimes italicized (p3: "fire axe", "crowbar", "pistol", "pan" (second appearance)), and sometimes simply unmarked (p3: "pan" (first appearance), p13: "machete, "rifle").
p6: section "SHHHH!" implies that noise is produced on attacks by "shoot[ing] with a Ranged weapon", and that by inference all melee weapons are silent. This is explicitly contradicted in the Noisy Weapons sidebar on page 7.
p8: section "Reorganizing the inventory and trading with another survivor" should be clarified. By the current rules, a Survivor may exchange zero cards ("any number") with a survivor in the same Zone at the cost of one action, essentially granting that Survivor an opportunity to reorganize inventory. This is reasonable, but the surrounding text conveys an expectation of a trade which could lead to uncertainty about the legality of this maneuver.
p28 (Turn Summary): Zombies Ecology uses the term "danger points", referred to everywhere else as "experience points".
Well I just read through it, and I'm really sad that they didn't get a decent proofreading. There was a ton of people willing to do it for free, but no it's wiser to hide those rules and release a botched rulebook in engrish :/. As stated above by someone else, after seeing the rulebook for SDE, I wasn't expecting anything spectacular. It's just disappointing when you see the whole quality of the product (minis, artwork) and the most controversial point (rules hidden) end up being the weakest facet of the product. Sorry for ranting, I was expecting something better after having spent +$250 on a game, and I wasn't even bitching about the fact that we never saw the rules in the first place, but if it could have made the product more professional then it should have been shown!
French are bad at english, I know that for a fact, I'm french myself :D
Just read through the game - have to admit it wasn't quite what I was expecting! Still, I can't say how much I will like it until I play and I'm still very much looking forward to getting the box and playing! Looks like there is lots of room for house rules and extra scenarios, which is cool.
The only rule that really jumped out at me as strange is players choosing which player gets attacked when two share a zone with a zombie. I think it should be chosen randomly. But it could well be a balancing rule so we'll see.
Fan proof reading would have improved the rule book signficantly without additional cost ... its not bad, it just could have been better.
i just read it all and i had no problem understanding any of it. can't wait to play. and the shooting rules are fine if they didn't have then that way they would be over powered. there are skills that counter them and items too
Rackham has had this problem from the start, they don't get a native English speaker to review for the subtle grammar issues before publishing their materials. Its not unreadable, just doesn't sound 'quite right.' On the other hand (IMHO) that grammar issue and the dumping of their fan-favorite fantasy skirmish game 'Confrontation' and its associated exquisitely sculpted figures, for an overly simplified battle game with marginal quality pre-painted rubbery plastic figures are my only complaints with Rackham studios. I am 100% a fanboy, their quality never ceased to amaze me. I hope that Guillotine gmaes (a decent portion of the original Rackham games studio) can continue to shine in that department.
had dl it later going to read it.
Greyhawke: Try opening it in Chrome or some other browser that has a PDF viewer. Download i iPad or iPhone or some other smart device that understands the PDF format. Upload it to google documents and try there.
I'm getting a runtime error when trying to open and view the rulebook. Any ideas besides reinstalling runtime, already did that. TIA
Nice! Looking forward to the 95k and 160k goals to release so I can make use of all of the additional items I'm getting. Hopefully this isn't the final draft of the rules, but if it is I can cope.
and for all of you that are mad about the you shoot your friend first rule. try to shoot in a to a cat fight and hit the one you wanted to. it's a brawl for you life in a wave of zombies. if some tried shooting the one that was eating me i am most likely to get the bullet. you need to go in there and pull that zombie off then kill it hand to hand to not get me killed
It's a shame that the language of the rulebook doesn't display the same polish as the art, sculpting and general presentation, but as others have said it seems to be par for the course in pricey adult board games for some reason. At least in this case the rules are simple enough that there shouldn't be too much need to keep heading back to the book.
Still excited for this and even a less-than-perfect rulebook has got me really pumped. Can't wait for my copy to land.
Thanks to all involved in the creation of this game and these rules, i can't wait to get home and spend some quality time reading and rereading them.
they showed you the rules of how to play months ago in a vid. you knew what the game play was like
Yeah the rules definitely have that "English as a second language" (aka ESL) feel to it. This is why we've been begging to see the rules for months.
But I've been expecting the grammatical errors ever since I started reading the character profiles on the Guillotine Games website.
Hookers and blow, duh! :P
Almost 800k funding and pretty crap proofreading? Where did all of that money go???????
I agree - this rulebook could have benefited from more proof reading and design but based on their last rulebook - first printing of Super Dungeon Explore was the worst rulebook ever in the history of rulebooks - I wasn't expecting much. Buried, scattered information was to be expected but this rulebook is at least a step in the right direction from their last effort.
I don't know what you think guys, but all the missions seems to be the same, only the Grindhouse mission looks differents.
I mean, I expected more special rules to make each mission different an add dificult, but looks like it's up to us, and the community with the campaign creator.
I agree with most of the above. It would have been nice for them to release it when they said they would so we could go "hey guys, before you spend all that money printing this you might wanna change these things. Just a heads up!" But what's done is done and I'm still pretty damn excited to play this no matter what
Some of the writing in the rules are a bit on the odd side, but the basic mechanics of the game are fairly sound. Most of what I read (only read it all the way through once) is on par with other developed systems. When I take the time to really delve in a learn the rules I'm confident I could play a game straight through with minimal need to look back on something, and eventually be able to play the game start to finish teaching someone else how to play. The fact the guide is a bit confusing suggests it needs more polish, but if the main complaint is the lack of its polish I say they did pretty good.
And if all else fails, house rule what you don't like.