BTW, I am Cornbread46 from BGG who came up with the idea. Spawning happens at the end of a zombie turn, so each team take their survivor turns, then zombies move according to their own map, then a spawn card is flipped and zombies are spawned on each board in the same manner. If one team finishes first, they can wait until both teams are ready for spawning.
With one enormous layout you could have two teams competing for salvage from the gun store, grocery store, etc. you could also race to the exit point with the team that arrives first wins. Achieving goals could be worth points too. Looting key locations for critical supplies could be worth a point each and after 5 turns the team (or teams?) with the most points are victorious!
@David that sounds interesting what you suggested, but it would be safe to assume that the survivors on each board would be doing different things at different times so they would not be hitting zombie spawns at the same time so wouldn't that cause zombies to be popping up everywhere. For an example they are at opposite ends of the board and both cause a spawn card within minutes and now they got the zombies from the other groups actions as well as their own to deal with, right?
@Jennifer - Here you go, copied from www.BoardGameGeek.com - Entry from Cornbread46 -
Idea for extra set of tiles...
Set up two identical maps at once. 2-3 survivors on each map. Have all zombies spawn the same on both boards (IE, both maps will be the same, zombies spawns will be the same card, etc.)
Compete to see which team finished the scenario faster, or with the most kills, or whatever you want to do.
Instant team competition bonus game!
they are double sided so you can have a larger area to play on
Just wondering what the benefit of the extra map tiles is? Will you be able to have more players with the added tiles?
Like i said, the ones I would love are Sex Machine and the Geiko brothers from "From Dusk till Dawn" and El Mariachi from Desperado for sure, Gogo from Kill Bill...all of them can be cool, "One leg from Planet Terror" who was actually kicking the asses of some "zombies" type! would be awesome!
@Sylvano: The last post that seemed to seriously be complaining was 24 posts ago, the rest seem to be in jest. However, out of the last 24 posts 7 have been trying to explain why it is a good deal and complaining about the other complainers. The conversation has moved on but the ones who won't let it drop are the ones complaining of complainers. Let's move on. Both Group A and Group B can agree to disagree.
What are some cameo characters you would like to see in the expansion or for the next bonus purchase? I would love to see Ash from Army of Darkness! Or maybe Tuckle or Dale from Tucker and Dale vs Evil! That would be pretty epic!
Hates will always hate, please those who keeps the QQ, just stop complaining, you got your kickstarter and the goal that they had promised, now you do not want anything more? stop coming on this page and make some critics and just wait for us (the collectors) to buy the new sauce they offer and benefits from what we will buy, because the plastic ruler and the scenario editor would not be available for you if we haven't buy anything else. So let us add more money and collect what it will bring you, if it is nothing more, well you do not lose anything, if it is more, then good for you, but now, please, just stop crying out loud. there is worst thing in life to worry about, let me and those who want to add money, manage our pledge and manage yours. I mean, if they stop making new goals, you won't have anything more right? then do as if they had stop, because I, for sure, am interested in more. thank you
@Troy: If you wanted to get Eva, Marvin, and the tile set you would need to up your pledge to $140. $10 per character and $20 for the tiles.
i've pledged $100 for the game and then i upped it by $30 to get eva. do i have to pledge more to get marvin and the tile sets?
Oh wow that sounds great!! If they start another KS for the expansion I'll totally support them!
Jerahneel, they will all be used with the expension release Q2 2013, with the rest of the original character's zombie editions. But no more info has been given about it so far...
Can I ask what Zombie Marvin and Eva do? Do they act as special zombies in game?
I do think that David has got a Major point going ... People who do NOT want to buy more do not have to buy more.
Why are people complaining about getting more stretch goals... There is
option a) no more stretch goals
option b) offer stretch goals after your initial stretch run that does not hurt you so much that you go out of buisness, while still rewarding people who INVEST MORE THAN OTHERS in your buisness...
NOTHING is free and NO ONE is requiring that you buy any extra
For those who do not realize it yet option a) is the same as option b) for those who do not wish to pledge more ...
THANKS YOU CoolMiniOrNot for giving us the opportunity to get a great zombie game with so much content and also a LOT of FREE content :) an happy pledger !
Ok, I'm technically on vacation, and I'm going to get in trouble for checking my e-mail, but I'm glad I did. There's another $30 into the pledge! Of course, now I'm scared ya'll will add something new.
You nasty CoolMiniOrNot. Bad, bad boys. Stop making my wallet cry... :-)
Just tell me the next one will be Vincent Vega and I'll add directly another ten...
I'm passing on the tiles because I'm a solo player and I don't see myself playing a huge, long scenario, but I'm afraid I'll keep buying every survivor they come up with.
@Disreputable and other complainers, I think you're missing something here.
None of the extra stuff is needed for the game. You can play the game and have fun without it. They were under no obligation to do ANY of the stretch rewards, and most have been added over time to THANK the supporters. If you just got in before the Eva level and options, then yes, it looks kind of scammy, but if you have been following since the start you would see that they have shelled out a TON of extras just to be nice.
Do you expect them to lose money giving you free stuff? Should they go bankrupt because they have a lot of supporters?
For $100 you get the game ($89 value), a signed litho, a shirt, 2 extra sets of promo dice, 108 minis (37 more than the base game, 6 being promos not available in other ways), extra scenarios, and editor, plastic clips, etc... All with FREE shipping (for US). I'd honestly be suprised if their profit margin on that package was even noticable.
Heck, at the $75 level you get an $89 game, litho, and the 3 promo figures with free shipping. Thats a great deal and the $100 package makes it look like a ripoff.
They could have stopped with the stretch goals a long time ago (or not even started them). They probably figure they are at the breaking point where if they GIVE us anything else, they'll start losing money (if they aren't there already).
The hunger for more braaaainnnssss, I mean stuff, is so great that they've thrown a few more things at us as OPTIONS. People are asking for more figures, and dice. So here you go, you can buy some at a reasonable price point and they'll ship them, again, for free. Heck, they're even giving us a price break on the tiles which they weren't even going to offer us in the first place (the only option would have been to buy at full price).
You don't need the tiles, and can make your own. You don't need the newer figures (which may be available in the expansion), and can create your own, along with your own cards for them. You don't need the dice as you'll already get 3 sets at the $100 level.
These are OPTIONS that people WANTED and ASKED for. You don't have to buy them!
I get where you are coming from, but look at it from the business perspective. They can't really give you any more free stuff without losing. If the KS campaign raises 300k but they have to spend $350k to fork over all your freebies, then that doesn't really help them much does it.
You talk about the spirit of KS, well I'm pretty sure the spirit wasn't meant to be "I'll only fund this if I get an unreasonably large amount of swag." Stop being so self-entitled and appreciate all the wonderful thank you gifts they've already given us (which everyone seems to be forgetting).
I'm currently at $150 (eva, marvin, white dice tiles), and feel really guilty about it. I wish I could back down to the $100 level, but I know I would kick myself after the fact. When compared to other activities, I know this game is going to get a lot more than $150 worth of use in my house. Heck, even my extremely fiscally conservative wife is on board and she's popping out #3 any day now so it's not like I'm swimming in cash.
For those who have an issue with stretch goals for people who bought extras...
Think of it this way: Almost EVERY stretch goal was for the $100.00 level, so people at the $75.00 level had to make the choice if they wanted to take advantage of those rewards by uping their pledge, right? So just imagine that this is just another reward level. We are uping our pledge for this new level, and in return get some extra stuff. No different than stretch goals that supported $100.00 level, but not $10.00 level for example.
@ Matt It's on the FAQ:
"Optional items, how do I indicate which items I want?
Don't worry about that, a survey will go out after the Kickstarter concludes and you can tell us then what options you wanted to add to your pledge!"
Just add the appropriate amount, no need to specify anything. A survey will go out after the KS ends where you can pick the additional options you'd like.
I'm definitely confused about how you add these on to your pledge. Could someone with coolminiornot.com please clarify? How you add Eva? Martin? Extra tiles?
when we add say $10 on for marvin and $10 on for the additional dice, how do they know what we are asking for? Because I would like to pay more for a few additions, but how will they know what the amount I added is going towards?
Icing on this zombie cake would be production run of the campaign tile and campaign scenario! Print out tiles will never be as awesome. I'm still hoping for that as a reward of some sort.
I see it as expansion building and it really is a 2 for 1. By one hero and get a zombie version of the hero for free (ish). Still the additional heroes are very clever and speak well of the expansions to be expected. Also, you always have the option of not buying it.
I think what we are seeing now is all things they had planed for expansions. They're doing these early because this is such a huge success.
I don't think any of the included scenarios will ever need the extra set of tiles. That would be stupid. But remember that they are releasing the scenario editor so it wont take long for custom scenarios to hit the road they might be designed in such a way that you'd need both sides of the same tile. I like this addition.
At first I was a little DAMN with all the Paying for extras, but I have now come to realize that they're just opening up the extension plans so we have something to look forward to.
So sure if you don't like it don't pay for it. Its not needed for the basic game.
@Sylvano: ...yes? I got slightly lost in the middle. It's not really about people thanking people, more trying to figure out an incentive for new backers that doesn't require purchasing an extra they may not want/get. However, just us having a discussion about a $240k stretch goal shows @CoolMiniOrNot and co. have come a long way from $20,000 and they seem to be working hard regardless to give it back to backers. Sure, they've given us the option to pay for more things, but they added a lot on top of the $100 backer rewards without asking us for more money. They're just as excited as the rest of us to see a mountain of support and, while trying to give back as much as possible, are attempting to capitalize on the base for add more stuff. We all might see the flaw in the last couple of stretch goals, but have any of us *not* increased our pledge to accommodate?
@Thomas Diener if you had selected a $100 pledge, as a backer, if you can add
$10 for white engraved dice
$15 for a extra set of glow in the dark dice (already got one if you pledge $100
$20 for extra tiles pack
$10 for eva
$10 for marvin! that is it!
@Thomas We'll have it up on the front page shortly!
@M.R. Ness exactly, and it is kind of twisted, but you buy one extra, and by doing that, you stretch goal to get the zombie version... so in a way, we get a reward for adding to the pledge on top of what we buy, i mean if we do not reach 240 000 we won't have the zombie version, so in a way, it is a reward for those who wanted the extra, so they kept their promise of regular goal with kickstarter, and they make new goals for the ones that decide to go for the extra's, if it was not for the ones that want extras, the ones that didn't add to the pledge for the extras would not have the Walk of the dead, the Map editor and the plastic trackers, so I think the ones saying this is not ok, should thank us for buying the extra because you win by not even having to add a cent!
" You'll need to pledge $40 to get both optional Survivors and the optional extra set of tiles. "
Can you please keep an updated list of all the extra'-extras' requiring extra payment,
preferably with each additional extra?
I've lost track completely...
@Disreputable: I agree with your point, having a stretch goal that caters specifically to buying an extra doesn't make sense or sound business logic. But! Most of the stretch goals of Zombicide have been exactly what you defined them to be. From the stretch goals we now have a scenario editor, small things like cool dice and better counters, and a more robust game. If we count it, 10 of the 12 serve that purpose, while only two relate directly to extras.
they can't make everyone happy. So for those who do not wish to have the goodies you can stop adding to the pledge, for those who wish for goodies, we add, simple as this... I don't see why there is a debate on that
the stretch rewards was fixed and goal is reached, this is extra, again, stop it at the goal and don't go with the extra, let say, they stop making goodies, since they reach the extras, and start selling limited edition on cmon shop, it would be the same for me... but i prefer seeing it here.
@ Dennis Garrido & Chris Bain: I have to agree. It is getting out of hand, and I don't think this is what the spirit of stretch goals are about.
@ Sylvano & M.R. Ness: I think you guys are missing the point. Extras are extras, and that's fine. Stretch rewards to just help sell extras is not really what stretch rewards are supposed to be about.
I thought stretch rewards were supposed to reward backers who helped make a more robust and well financed project. Not create more extras for you to sell on the side or fund separate future projects.
Shut up and take ALL MY MONEY!!
DAMN YOU CoolMiniOrNot!!! Now I have to up my bid again!!!
*Their huge mistake i meant, sorry for my english!
See only company that I never got sick of for years was Rackham, Played french confrontation since it started, and it keeps being the best game I have played, (started at 14 playing miniatures game, i am 41 now) and Confrontation was top, until it came out in pre-paint plastic, there huge mistake that unfortunately cost them everything. But these are my best souvenir, amazing miniatures, great game play, so since this board game have lots of people from original rackham, I keep the faith in it, must admit that this is one of my big positive aspect in this new game, they are people that care about artistic side of the game, also, mechanic of the game was great, so I'll support it till the end..
Something free at $300k would be really neat, and probably appease a number of people, but at some point you have to realize they may have overextended on some earlier goals. Walk of the Dead could easily have been two batches of 10 walkers, and runners and fatties could have been split, and suddenly there would have been two more "free goals" but nobody gets anything more. A stretch goal every $20k is way more generous than most KS projects, as well.
Absolutely backing Gogo, btw. Asian schoolgirl is definitely missing from the current lineup.
@M.R. Ness: I too hope that it will be usable out of the box! Even if it's not though, I'll be happy to home brew stuff to use all the tiles and minis for. Our game group has gotten so large that the desire to be able to use all this stuff and have everyone participate is enough to drive me to continue to pledge. Especially for cool movie inspired characters (I a huge film nerd)! Like I said in my last post though, my dealing with certain companies have just made me a little paranoid. I think my pessimist is showing a little, but I continue to keep the faith in what looks like an amazing game!
@Chris then now I am with you 100% I got ripped, raped, and screwed by GW and a few more... so I understand better now, I am a bit nervous too about this, i pledge $190 for 2 sets and bought all extras, so yes, you are right, since we have nothing in hand, and didn't try it, it is true, at same time, like you said, getting Jules and the Bride, Machete etc... this is epic haha. :)
@Sylvano: I too am happy with it, Jules from Pulp Fiction and The Bride from Kill Bill, epic! My original post was more hyperbole than anything else. I too would rather pay now than pay later for overpriced con merchandise. I think Zombicide will be awesome! However, I would be lying if I said pledging $140 for a game I haven't even played yet doesn't make me a little nervous. I think it will be worth it in the end--I hope. I've just been burned in the past by Games Workshop and WoTC that I do tend to look for money-grubbing monsters, even of there are none. I don't think that is what is going on here, but like I said the business models of the two aforementioned companies has made me a little paranoid.
@Chris, I have to agree with @Sylvano. Much of it is optional and seeing a business side to a company isn't terrible, in fact I feel that it's really in the spirit of Kickstarter to see a company raise a ton of money and use it to be successful. Besides, it seems much of what they are doing is releasing expansion products and material with the original release. The biggest question I would like to see answered concerning the buy add-ons has already been asked by @Joseph Soonsin Lee, which is whether the extra tiles have functionality out-of-the-box (i.e. large scale scenarios). I'd hate to think we all picked up awesome extras that wouldn't have a use until we built our own personal scenarios for it.
@Chris understand perfectly the point of view, in the other hand, I rather pay now, $10 to have 1 and maybe 2 miniatures (since we reach goals and get the zombie version) then waiting for a limited edition release or any convention special edition (like Games Days etc) that I might not be able to get, and having to spend $50 for one on ebay because people will get them by lot and sell them on ebay. Also, prefer to spend that $10 now, and get them with the kickstarter then again, maybe paying $15 because they have to packed them in blisters etc... and pay a shipping for each ones of them... this is my point of view on it. They reach the goals they had fixed, we got all that they promised, then now, they have to pay sculptor to make new models and new mold etc. that cost money, so it is fair that they offer it, we do not need to get them. People can just stop adding to pledge and get what was promised, others, can just keep asking for more. I mean, it is a free world, and I won't be a better player than someone that didn't get the Marvin mini, and I don't think that these minis will unbalance the game and/or ruin it. It is just collectible stuff. There is no offer if there is no demand... like everything in the world, if they make a new model at 140 000 and no one raise their pledge, they will understand that people have enough, if it keeps going, that mean there is a demand. They did $13 000 since this morning, I believe that means some are very happy with it.
@CMON: So will there be scenarios or rules for using the extra tiles and more than 6 survivors to address the game balance issues?
@Sylvano: I do realize and I can afford it, I too am a collector. However it seems like the spirit of Kickstarter is being abused a little. Paying extra money for items to pad out the Kickstarter funding, seems (for complete lack of a better word) sneaky. I do think a lot of these bonuses are worth it, hence why I have chosen to pay. It is starting to feel like the project and the creators are losing a little face. I no longer get the feeling that this is a project that will add as much as it can to stretch goals that will add functionality and game elements. That warm fuzzy feeling is slowly being replaced by one of troll at a bridge. According to BGG I'm not alone in this feeling. I am still supporting this game, and if they relase more bonuses for pay, I will probably get them too. The business side of the beast is starting to show. Just an observation.
@Chris, they do not force us, you have to stop yourself if you do not wish to go further, as far as i can see, some of us are pleased about it, and since it is just "ice-cream" on top of the cake, I am ok with it, I do not need to take everything that come out, but i am a collector, and love it. it's not $20 in a week that will kill me, and if I would not be able, well there is a few months left, so you can always add it in 2 weeks from now... my point of view!
Ugh, please stop. I'm all for stretch rewards but I've gone as far as I can go. I've squeezed the $140 out of my cake day money. Any more and we might as well be playing a Games Workshop game. I love Zombicide and can't wait. But stop the insanity!