Funded! This project was successfully funded on November 18, 2012.

Update #33

Beyond $130,000 ...a New Stretch Reward!

Good evening, Boss Monsters.

You did it. You took down $130K like it was some two-bit fighter prancing into your dungeon with practice weapons. The Creator Pack is opened up and we will be shipping those Kickstarter exclusive cards to everyone at the Player's Choice level and above, along with the digital "create your own card" kits.

Tonight's post finds us with only five days left in the campaign. We've set the next stretch goal at $160K. It's a tall order, we know, but based on what we've seen out of you guys in the past three and a half weeks, we think we can make the stretch.

So, what happens if we hit $160K? Something pretty special, we think. For all of our backers at the Extra Life level and above, we've always promised that in mid-2013 we'd ship a prototype version of our 25-card mini-expansion, Tools of Hero-Kind. The cards in the prototype were going to be physical, but they weren't going to be final, because the whole point was that you'd be playtesting them. It was, we admit, a little confusing.

So we've sweetened the deal. If we hit $160K and you are an Extra Life backer or above, we're going to upgrade your prototype version of Tools of Hero-Kind to the real deal. Let's say that again so we're clear: if you're an Extra Life pledger, we're going to be sending you a free copy of the foil bag-wrapped, fully playtested, final production version of the Tools of Hero-Kind mini-expansion instead of the prototype. This will be the same version that we're later selling in stores.

We'll ship the expansion in mid-2013, but now you'll have a chance to playtest the work-in-progress version even earlier, with a print-and-play PDF version available to all our Extra Lifers (and above). In fact, we'll send the first playtest PDF soon after you get your copy of the base game. We hope this is as exciting to you as it is to us, because sending you the final mini-expansion is not something we could have done without having gotten to where we are on Kickstarter. We truly needed your support to be able to make this financially viable.

Just to whet your appetite, here's a look at an early version of one of the magical "Item" cards from Tools of Hero-Kind. With the introduction of Item cards, Tools of Hero-Kind will transform the adventurers exploring your dungeon. They'll go from being a resource that you harvest into an undeniable threat. Magical weapons, armor, items and scrolls will attach themselves to Heroes as they come into town and confer their "Power-Up" abilities. Of course, with bigger risks come bigger rewards. Should you manage to defeat a hero carrying an Item, you'll be able to use the one-time "Reward" effect of that item to further your own nefarious goals.

For Unlimited Lives backers who are thinking they already had a copy of this expansion coming to them, that's true, but we still consider the Unlimited Lives pledge to be the best value of our various pledges, because we are dead-set on releasing expansions for years to come. Back at $12,000 it was a very uncertain reward, but it has become a dependable investment.

For those of you backing below the Extra Life level, we'd be thrilled to see you upgrade to the Extra Life to get Tools of Hero-Kind. But for those of you who really can't increase your pledge at the moment, or who are already pledged above the Extra Life level, we decided to provide another reward. We were inspired by one of our favorite ideas already coming out of the Boss Monster backer community: "Hybrid Heroes." So, if we hit $160K, every backer at the Player's Choice level and above will receive two Kickstarter exclusive Epic Multi Heroes: The Monster Hunter and The Trap Master.

We may make some tweaks to these cards before they go to print (there have to be some surprises in February, after all), but we think these two heroes will add a new level of challenge and fun that you guys -- and only you guys -- will be able to enjoy.

That's it for now, Boss Monsters. Can we make $160K? Might there be more stretch goals beyond that one? Only five days to go... we'll see what you can do.

BWG

Comments

    1. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Michelle A. Truax on November 14, 2012

      Actually, no I wouldn't feel like my pledge was de-valued, since I'm still getting a bunch of promo's that aren't in the base game, I'm getting to be a play tester for what seams to be an awesome company, and I'm helping two people start up said company, a feat that I hope once I finish making my game, other people will do for me. But I guess it all boils down to personal opinion, and I've always been one to give more than I receive. Hell I haven't gotten anything on my birthday in years, yet I always send gifts to everyone I can remember.

    2. 1986659bf69b28917944fceeaa3b5271_large.small

      Creator Jeremy Williams on November 14, 2012

      @michelle - not really a slap in anyone's face. They have already shattered their dream target. Their game is getting made, unless everyone backs out at the last minute. And that is EXACLTY what I'm talking about. I dropped my personal pledge to $40, and you think I owe it to people I don't even know to "buck up" and stay in at $150. What, you scared you're not gonna make 160k and get a freebie?

      Let's try it another way. Suppose all you have to do to get the game is "like " it on Facebook. That's it. Just pop on over and give it a like. You get the base game. Would you feel like your pledge level value went down? Even though you're still getting the bonus cards and the card creator, wouldn't some of the value be gone?

      The $150 level had a value to me, completely separate from the other $150 pledgers. Some of them still think its a good value. I see part of my value siphoned towards the $40 level. It has everything I want still - card creator, beta testing access, promo cards....I just get it slower. I'm ok with that. I've got 4 other tabletop games on their way from kickstarter.

    3. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Michelle A. Truax on November 14, 2012

      To be honest? People dropping from the 150 level down to the 40 level takes away $110 from the kickstarter, which I feel is both a slap in the face of the Brothers, and causes us to take even longer to reach the next stretch goal. However you are free to do whatever you wish. I'm just saying, I'm giving them all the extra cash I have this month, and will probably buy a few copies down the road at retail price to give to friends as gifts, since sadly I have a few friends that would love this game, they just don't know it yet, and sadly they don't ever back projects on kickstarter.

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      Creator d0ct0rscarecr0w on November 14, 2012

      @Michelle
      maybe you should ask yourself why you keep trying to understand. Exactly how does this concern you? Now I'm done commenting on this update, you people can argue amongst yourselves.

    5. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Michelle A. Truax on November 14, 2012

      I still don't understand. If they made the $30 official play testers as well as the $40, I wouldn't whine and cry. Because I'm spending as much money as I can. If I had the money, I'd up it to 50, 75, hell 1000, if I had it, but I don't. If you couldn't afford the 150, then why do it in the first place? And if you still can, it's still going to be a good investment, no matter what the 160K or even if there's a 190k reward is.

    6. 1986659bf69b28917944fceeaa3b5271_large.small

      Creator Jeremy Williams on November 14, 2012

      @doc - gotcha :) And my issue has also been resolved. Just irks me when people constantly try and tell me what I should be with my pledges, how I should be pledging, etc.

      Just so we're clear, I was originally at $40, got super excited when the Card Creator got announced as a goal, so I put most of my overtime check into bumping myself up to the $150 level. With Christmas coming, dating someone 2 hours away, mortgage, bills, food....everyone has things to pay for. But I still did it, because I feel like these guys have a fantastic project. Now that the goals have changed, in my opinion, in more favor of the $40, I'm back down there. I don't need a pity party, but I really need people to stop telling me what I should be thinking, or how I should be pledging. Irritating is an understatement.

      TL:DR
      The difference is I was at the $150 level, and not a lot of people who are saying to suck it up made that effort to get there. "If I could, I would" doesn't cut it. I found a way.

    7. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 14, 2012

      BWG should announce their next planned expansion, even the theme/concept would be nice.
      Problem solved as that still guarantees 1 expansions and a mini.

    8. Plague82.small

      Creator d0ct0rscarecr0w on November 14, 2012

      @Jeremy
      Uh... I definitely still think it's worth it. My issue has been resolved. What I was staying before was that if the entirity of your 150 pledge was about the one expansion ToHK it would never be worth it... even before this stretch goal.
      now if they gave them Crash Landing or something crazy like that I might have to rethink my decision... also my belief in their business sense.

    9. Plague82.small

      Creator d0ct0rscarecr0w on November 14, 2012

      @Michelle
      Obviously you aren't a 150 pledger and obviously you don't understand. I'm not explaining it again, and it doesn't really matter now.

    10. 1986659bf69b28917944fceeaa3b5271_large.small

      Creator Jeremy Williams on November 14, 2012

      @michelle - this isn't a meta philosophical conversation about "the problem with society today is they want more for less". This is about a pledge level that is 3x more expensive than the one that got a huge boost and it being a small slap on the face to those of us that we're WILLING and ABLE to pledge there.

      We pledged there because we could and wanted to. Since you cannot/will not, you really don't have any ground to stand on to support your arguement. You never were going to be there for whatever reason. And that's a ok. But don't try and tell us that we should keep our pledge there because "it's for tr greater good". This isn't a fairy tale land-it's a land where $150 was gonna fly out of my wallet. I expected the value of my pledge level to remain the same or go up. It went down, in my opinion. I'm now at $40, and it's a fantastic level for me at this stage in the game.

      Some people think its still a good value, others like myself and doc have viewed it as not worth it now.

    11. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 14, 2012

      @Michelle A. Truax
      Think they went with "Multi" so they can make 3 or even all treasure heroes.

      I actually do not see why you need the words multi cause they are still Epic Heroes.
      It wil cause less confusion, and the icons themselves should be self explanatory.

    12. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Michelle A. Truax on November 14, 2012

      @ BWG - I like the names you chose better than Paladin and Ninja. They feel more like a "Monster Hunter" and "Trap Master" to me anyways. Oh and instead of Multi Hero, or Hybrid Hero, what about Dual Class? It's an old concept that most people over look where you level two classes evenly. It was big reason for me to play a human in 2nd DnD.

    13. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Michelle A. Truax on November 14, 2012

      @Doc - Earlier you said "You aren't a unlimited backer so please don't pretend like you understand us. If you were I'm our shoes I bet most of you would have had issues with the original deal as well." However I don't feel that's fair. If I had the money to do so, I would have backed $150 easily, because it's not just about the 25 card mini expansion, but the 150 major expansion that they're planning to kickstart eventually. I understand that some people backed it at $150 because they wanted all the free cards, but that's the problem with society, too many people only do something if they get something out of it. I don't have the money, but I'd easily up my pledge if I did, without wanting to be at a different level, or get more rewards, just because of the project itself, and the developers.

    14. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @Michael Black
      I think one of the appeal from BWG is they price their pledge levels accordingly so anyone can be part of it. (First Come First Serve) So it's not just whoever can spend the most money.
      I mean the 40 Hero sports were cleared out in less than 2-3 hours of the start of the campaign.

    15. Logo4.small

      Creator Michael Black on November 13, 2012

      Something tells me your new $245 levels should have been priced at $750 or $1,000!

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      Creator d0ct0rscarecr0w on November 13, 2012

      On the contrary to what others have been saying. I'm actually glad the last stretch goal is so soft. That way I'm excited but there is no major let down if it doesn't happen.

    17. S044525823.small

      Creator Jeremy Hope on November 13, 2012

      Share it as much as you can guys! Let's get this to $160K!

    18. Untitled.small

      Creator Eddie Boshell on November 13, 2012

      I echo the statements of those mentioning that Paladins/Ninjas/Sheepmen (maybe not the last one) sound FAR better than not fully defining a hybrid class. I started off on the Player's choice and have gradually worked my way to Extra life over the past 10 days, so these stretch goals are really doing the job of enticing us to throw more monies at BWG :)

    19. Missing_small

      Creator Lone_Gazebo on November 13, 2012

      Thats what i was worried/wondering about. Hero's being nothing but a mechanic for bringing you souls. But seeing those two heroes, and the confirmation of herokind's purpose i am now 100% about this. *upped my pledge

    20. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @Ryan Robinson
      Very very old comment response from BWG. Not sure if they have changed their mind
      "@Toy203: We have no plans for the current version of Boss Monster to go to 5-6 players. Perhaps that’s an area for a future expansion, but in our experience the play mechanics work best at the four player level and below."

    21. Avatar2.small

      Creator Pawel Szwarc on November 13, 2012

      @Brotherwise,
      Your multi-class heroes totally owned our ideas on BGG (well, maybe except Chesu's ones) ;-D Connecting heroes to room types (based on what treasures are more related to what rooms) was a way to go. And "paladin" and "ninja" sounds like a great ideas for names, even though I like "Monster Hunter" and "Trap Master" and I wouldn't mind if they were used in final cards. Also I totally agree that icons need some tweaking (a 45 degree division or half icons are ideas worth considering and the ones I would suggest as well).

    22. Image-217261-full.small

      Creator Nick Newman on November 13, 2012

      I'll add my two cents as well. I love this new stretch goal, and it will probably get me to up my pledge.

      On the subject of the multi-heroes, I really love the idea of giving them defined hybrid classes (such as Paladin for Fighter/Cleric as you mentioned). It seems to integrate much more with the existing theme, and I like the idea of seeing a "Paladin" come to town, rather than a "Fighter/Cleric".

    23. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ryan Robinson on November 13, 2012

      Are there any plans for an expansion to get 5+ players at the table? As interesting as ToHK sounds at most of the game nights I go to an expansion that lets more people at the table is more likely to get played than one that adds extra stuff.

      For what it's worth I'll throw my votes in on a couple other thoughts;
      I don't know if it's workable, but I'd rather see "multi-class" than either abbreviation. "Multi" sounds like "multiple" while "hybrid" sounds like a cross-breed alien thing.
      I'd also rather see classic class names like ranger, paladin, monk, etc.
      And, finally, you guys are doing a great job and I'm excited to see this game.

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      Creator Don Riddle on November 13, 2012

      upped pledge to Extra Life. it was where i wanted to be in the 1st place, but i didn't want just a prototype, when i knew i'd have to buy the actual expansion later. thanks BWG! and thanks for the level-headed post below.

    25. Treasurestraps-avatar.small

      Creator Sarah Reed on November 13, 2012

      @Jeremy - thanks. Enjoy the perks of your new level and that's definitely a bonus to have money to support other projects.

      I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I truly do, but these campaigns are about supporting something you believe in. If you don't believe in the level that you're pledged at, then please change till you're happy. I know that's a bit counter-productive to raising money, but unhappy people won't help the game in the long run.

      And yes, I'm very pleased to support others to get the expansion at a lower level.

    26. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Spyke Alexander on November 13, 2012

      Heck, because of this I'm happy to upgrade up to Unlimited Lives. If that means that I help make sure that more people can get the first expansion as part of their pledge then more power to it!

    27. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @T.J.
      Understood, which is where the homebrew cards comes in handy. As BWG has mentioned Crash landing would not expand the number of players and there have not been any announced 5-6 player coming up.

      Actually if they make an announcement for that I can see how Unlimited Backers will be slightly less upset with this update.

      @ragalthar
      BWG has mentioned in the comments you will be able to purchase ToHK from their website when it gets released.

    28. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator T.J. Brumfield on November 13, 2012

      ragalthar: I'm sure that expansion will be sold at retail at some point.

    29. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator T.J. Brumfield on November 13, 2012

      @Carlos, I understand the theory, but like I said, it will only solve the problem if there are plenty of hybrid heroes. If there are only 2 of them, and they only come in during the epic hero phase, then it doesn't really help 5-6 players.

      If you add enough hybrid heroes, you could make the game playable for 5-6 players in a sense. I'd buy that as a mini-expansion happily.

    30. Holger9.small

      Creator Holger S. on November 13, 2012

      You write "[...] if you're an Extra Life pledger, we're going to be sending you a free copy of the foil bag-wrapped, fully playtested, final production version of the Tools of Hero-Kind mini-expansion instead of the prototype [...]"

      Unfortunately you don't mention the backers below the Extra Life level. How would those backer be able to receive the final production version of the Tools of Hero-Kind mini-expansion?

    31. Cobramk3_80x80.small

      Creator Dan Ormond on November 13, 2012

      Wow consider my pledge upped to Extra Life! This project is truly amazing!!

    32. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @T.J
      Might want to checkout this forum for some details.
      http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/882301/hybrid-heroes
      Basically what we had in mind is that currently in a 5+ player game you would most likely have 1 of each boss type. Then you are left with 2+ players that are contending for the same Heroes. The hybrid heroes will provide an alternate type of resource.
      For example. say 2 fighter boss and 1 of others boss. The two fighter boss will be competing for the fighters, if Fighter Boss A gets a fighter room, then Fighter Boss B is kind of screwed if he cannot keep up in # of fighter room and he cannot compete with the other treasure type as he is 1 behind them all to start with. Here Hybrid Heroes will allow Fighter Boss B to build a magic treasure room and compete against a Mage Boss and Fighter Boss with 2 respective treasure each. So between the 3 of them Fighter Boss B has a huge advantage as he can focus on 2 treasure types and guarantee a win over that boss.

      Then again all theory based, might just be easier to introduce new treasure type and bosses.

    33. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator T.J. Brumfield on November 13, 2012

      BTW, I really love the idea of hybrid heroes, but I still don't think it solves the issue of 5-6 players unless there are tons of them.

      To really make the game work for 5-6 players, you either need 6 hero types, or an alternative mechanic on how you draw heroes. Let's say each turn you produced X points of each treasure type and you bid each round. If you didn't land the heroes in a given turn, those points roll over allowing you to bid that much more in the next round. It would keep all players in the game longer, and also make a varied dungeon (with a few of each treasure type) a valid strategy.

      I fear with the current mechanics that if you got disparate treasure types that it would be hard to get any heroes.

    34. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator T.J. Brumfield on November 13, 2012

      This isn't the stretch goal I was hoping for, but this project has already exceeded my expectations.

      As for the math earlier in the thread, the game is $20 during the KS, but that doesn't mean the final retail game will be $20 or that expansions will be less than $10.

      Pixel Lincoln for example let you pre-order the game via KS for $25 which ended up including a bunch of stretch-goal extras. But the retail copy with less included is $40. (Sadly I missed that KS).

      The Unlimited Lives level is still a great value because this game could easily be $30 at retail, with small expansions perhaps at $15 and large expansions at $30.

      And you don't always get your money's worth with higher tiers on KS. I've seen projects where you donate a couple thousand, and in turn get a $100 sword. I always thought the purpose of higher tiers was to throw some money to help support companies and projects you liked. It wasn't necessarily to capitalize on return on investment.

      I would be at the $150 level myself, but I'm trying to save for Christmas shopping and lately I've adopted the practice of spending less per KS, but backing more projects. So it is the $40 level for me.

    35. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @BWG
      Thanks for reply.
      1) Adding that template would be awesome for those of us trying to homebrew some extra hybrid hero for 5-6 players.
      2) My interpretation was more like the Hero is not affected by the rooms, but the room can still take effect. I think cancel will make it more clear and prevent people from saying otherwise.
      3) Understood, guess that is just part of my OCD. As you might still need some goal after this as at least 250 more Extra Life backer has been added to the list.

      Regarding Hero equips. Have you thought of a bidding mechanic kind of deal where I can say, I will spend 1 soul and give myself a wound(ie. flipping a soul card) to equip an extra equipment to this hero during bait phase. Or similarly use this to gain that equip card so you can get that 1 time ability?

    36. 1986659bf69b28917944fceeaa3b5271_large.small

      Creator Jeremy Williams on November 13, 2012

      Nicely put Sarah. Perhaps earlier I was a tad overboard. But I still stand behind my opinion of feeling like my pledge bought someone else an expansion. I'm still supporting the game, as I think this very well may be a staple in my gaming group, I just feel like the $40 is now the appropriate level for me. And if you're happy that the first thing that was going to come to you is now coming to each person at a pledge level 3x lower than yours, then hey! more power to you! I appreciate your pledge now that I'm down here with everyone else. You know what they say, "If you can't beat em...."

      I'm happy at my new pledge and if we hit $160k, that leaves me with more cash to back other projects.

    37. Treasurestraps-avatar.small

      Creator Sarah Reed on November 13, 2012

      Okay, I'm not going to bother reading any more below. Just a few posts down disturbed me.

      As an Unlimited Life backer I am so happy about this stretch level. I am happy that there are 2 new promos and that other people now get more love in the form of the expansion. Honestly, what is the big deal? I'm no longer as special? So what. There's more Boss Monster goodness to go around and the more that people get from this campaign, the more they are going to talk about it to their friends and promote it.

      Actually, I want everyone to pledge at the Extra Life level or higher because that is a better guarantee that I will get so much more out of my Unlimited Lives level. The more successful this campaign is, the better off the next ones are going to be as well. I hope for Boss Monster goodness for years to come, making my $150 the best investment I've ever made.

      So c'mon people, let's spread the Boss Monster love! I'm certainly going to be telling my friends about the Extra Lives level.

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      Creator Brotherwise Games on November 13, 2012

      Anyone who's just reading this update in the morning and hasn't scrolled down through the 60 comments below, we just want to reiterate that Unlimited Lives backers will receive a prototype copy of Tools of Hero-Kind in addition to the final version. Now, on to some answers:

      @Koey: In response to your questions...

      1. We will definitely update the Creator Pack to include Tool templates... and Hybrid Hero icons.

      2. The Trap Master is intended to ignore all room text, including death effects. This has been clear to our playtesters, but perhaps "ignores" could be adjusted to "cancels" or something similar.

      3. Another Cleric Boss sure would lend some symmetry. I'm sure we'll get around to it sooner or later, but we have to keep some tricks up our sleeves!

      @Griffin: We avoided "Hybrid Hero" because it's a little too close for Magic's "hybrid mana," and because the idea of a multiclass Hero is classic dungeon-crawling fare. But we can see how abbreviating it to "multi" sounds like more than one character. Definitely something that we could change.

      @Mike: Good catch on the alphabetical order. Obviously that's super detail-oriented, but it's the kind of thing we try to do.

      @Andy: Glad this update got you excited! We considered calling these more traditional names like "Paladin" and "Ninja," and we reserve the right to change our minds on the subject, but for now we prefer these titles.

      @Jeremy: One Item card is always face-up, waiting to be matched to a Hero as soon as the right Hero type arrives in town. That gives players more ability to strategize and respond to these tough Heroes. But your more random suggestion could also be very fun. We'll playtest both!

      @Ben: We appreciate your support at any level! But if we're reading your backer info correctly, you could still upgrade to the Extra Life level. That unlocks more forum access, print-and-play copies of future expansions, and (if we hit $160K) a free copy of our first 25-card mini-expansion. If you have the extra bucks to spare (including the increase in shipping), we think it's a great deal!

      @Lester: The foil boss cards were an all-or-nothing deal from a printing perspective, but Unlimited Lives backers will receive the prototype copy of Tools of Hero-Kind. And as Koey pointed out, you will also benefit from an earlier release date! Previously, we would have been able to ship the prototype in mid-2013 and the final version in late 2013. Now we'll send it shortly after the game ships, and the final version will go out in summer! That's an improvement for everyone.

      @Massimiliano: Spread the word! We plan the 25 cards of Tools of Hero-Kind to include 20 Item cards, 4 Room cards and 1 Spell card. And a five-room dungeon could theoretically deal... hmm, 21 damage? But that would be a dungeon with every high-damage Fighter room in the game. A more typical late-game dungeon for a player focused on Fighter and Cleric rooms would deal 15 or 16 damage.

      @Bernhard: We've always thought the game plays better than it looks, but we'll let you be the judge of that! The response to Boss Monster's gameplay has been very positive so far. We're not out to replace tournament-level games like Magic, but we think that casual and advanced gamers alike will enjoy Boss Monster.

      @Jim: Thanks for the nice comment!

      All right. We hope that this discussion has shown that when a concern is raised, we jump on it right away. We do ask that everyone keep the conversation positive, becuase backing a Kickstarter project is as much of an emotional investment as a financial one. You guys got us to this point, so we're always ready to hear feedback, whether it's cheering us on or asking us to consider a concern we've missed.

      Thanks, guys. You rock!

      - BWG

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      Creator Michael Salt on November 13, 2012

      @anders, there will always be the crowd who say 'this stretch goal does not personally benefit me as much as i want it to!' and rage ensues. I've seen it on every project i've ever backed with this number of backers. There is nothing we can do about it.

      I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

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      Creator BruceP - Sheriff of Phoenix Rising on November 13, 2012

      Upgraded my pledge! Come on, $160k! :)

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      Creator Richard Gray on November 13, 2012

      Why are Unlimited Lives Backers talking about ourselves as if we've invested some huge amount of our time, effort, and life savings into this project? We clicked on a link and spent $150. If this is such a huge investment that you now feel cheated because other people could get the same quality of the 25 cards that you get (keep in mind, they were always going to receive those cards in one form or another), then you probably shouldn't have been backing at that level in the first place.

      For those that are still reading this before flying to their outraged reply, here's what you're still getting at that pledge level that the $40 backers are not getting: 1) An additional prototype copy of the game with immediate delivery. Let's put that at 3/4 value of the basic game; $15. There are only going to be X number of these in existence though, so that's probably not even a fair assessment of the value you're getting from this if you're a fan or collector. 2) You also know that you're going to get at least one $20 expansion. Any KS bonuses earned for every copy of the expansion (not any KS exclusive ones) will be added to your copy without any further backing from you. 3) Any future expansions ($20 full ones, $10 mini ones) that are made for this game, whether or not those are run through KS.

      If you're backing this project at this level solely for the rewards, and you don't think that they're going to make 4 full expansions after this one, then you should not back at the $150 level.

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      Creator Jim Hansen on November 13, 2012

      It's not that Unlimited Lives is losing any value, but Extra Lives would gain a lot of value, making Unlimited Lives less attractive by comparison. That said, this stretch goal is making me strongly consider upgrading to Unlimited Lives, because I think it shows that they are committed to their backers and will be making several games in the coming years. BWG are a class act and I have no doubt that they will make Unlimited Lives worthwhile.

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      Creator Jeremy Williams on November 13, 2012

      Thanks Anders for your thoughtful input. /sarcasm

    44. Avatar2.small

      Creator Anders H. Pedersen on November 13, 2012

      So much discussion over 25 cards?...
      OMG, get a life. Seriously!

    45. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @d0c
      Well said

      @Daniel
      You only need to be Player's Choice or higher to get the 2 Hybrid Heroes 7 more bosses, T.P.K and Pixel Lincon . Power Play nets you 3 extra cards. Which is mailed with the base set.

    46. Daniel.small

      Creator Daniel on November 13, 2012

      Hmm...

      I can see the >idea< behind why you want to do things like this if the 160k stretch is hit, but for me personally none of it makes sense.
      I'm currently at the 'power-up pack' level.
      I didn't want to go for 'extra life', because I risk any sendings to me from outside EU being tolled (with a charge for them doing it as well, where the charge itself is over 30$), and getting such an additional cost on a >prototype< to >test< is just not something I can convince myself to as being 'sane'.
      Only other level above that is NOT sold out, is also about receiving a prototype early. Again, something I am really not interested in due to the risk of extra charges from tolling.
      So.... yeah.... Nice idea, but the way you are doing things make me really not want to upgrade anything because I risk up paying those silly toll-charges more times with multiple mailings and there really isn't anything else being offered, really, in available higher pledges.
      So how about we can just add some money to get the epic heroes, and possible expansion, as 'addons' ? Cause I don't see myself upping my pledge to the rewards that are available as realities are in the real world, but I wouldn't mind getting those rewards "for certain".

    47. Plague82.small

      Creator d0ct0rscarecr0w on November 13, 2012

      @other unlimited backers.
      I wouldn't push this. It was shaky when the stretch had a noutpute but they took care of that.
      If you do the math this stretch loses them a potential 10k profit so like they said they are pushing it. We seem to be forgetting how much they did before for us.

      @everyone else
      Subjective criticism isn't really helping. You aren't a unlimited backer so please don't pretend like you understand us. If you were I'm our shoes I bet most of you would have had issues with the original deal as well.

    48. Image.small

      Creator Lester Ortiz on November 13, 2012

      I read about the prototype, but, and this is just MY personal opinion, it isn't as cool or nice as getting the full expansion deliver to my home. It made my pledge stand above the pledges bellow Unlimited Lives.
      Really, to reap any truly unique rewards, Unlimited Lives rewards, I'd have to wait until the next full expansion, which is probably getting its own Kickstarter late next year.

    49. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @Lester
      I guess you could view the expansion has having had it's release date moved up.
      Cause instead of receiving the prototype ToHK expansion a few weeks after getting the base game. You are now receiving the prototype with the base game.

      Try to think of it a way of BWG, giving you a superspeed on the ToHK now. Which is only available to the Unlimited or Higher pledge levels.

    50. Backer_vote_cerebellus.small

      Creator Carlos - "Koey" on November 13, 2012

      @BWG @Mike
      I think the Icon's on the top is used to determine classes, so you can still use those to determine class.
      As normal Heroes and Epic Heroes have do not say something like fighter Epic Fighter.
      I like the idea of changing the icon. Maybe instead of showing the full item they can show parts of it, as currently it looks scrunched up.

      @BWG.
      Sorry for sounding too demanding in last post.
      After reading some comments below maybe it would be best to mention in the text, that the Hero is treated as both a Cleric and a Fighter for Monster Hunter as a way of clarification.
      I actually slept on it and feel like there is no reason for saying whether the Hero is a Multi Hero from a Hero as they are both Epic Heroes and like others pointed out Multi sounds a bit off. I think the icon's themselves can represent the multi-part.

      @Jeremy
      It seems that there are 24 ordinary Heroes in a 4 player game. So maybe its a way of buffing all ordinary in a basic game to give them more of a challenge.
      Or you start bumping up the Heroes once they heard one of the Bosses have level'd up.

      @Lester
      Quote from BWG's blue post.
      "We hear your point, so we'll go ahead and arrange for Unlimited Lives backers to still receive a prototype copy around the time we're sending print-and-play versions to the rest of the gang. "

      Regarding foils it is unlikely to print as they need a minimum order of 1500 copies.

      @Ben Bonney
      There is always add-ons?

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