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If that's the case then scaling isn't an ideal way of doing it
Like test in a 3D program--make a plane, in the shape of a rectangle. Make a copy and select the face and inset it 1 unit, this will give you a border that if you measure from X or Y will both be 1 unit. Then select the other rectangle and inset at 0 (so it doesn't move) then use the scale tool and scale it until you reach the same distance, you'll notice that you can only fit one side.
Ideally you would account for it while modeling, using something like the Push modifier in 3ds Max might be able to help afterwards, but it doesn't work in all situations.
Zachary - should work in theory, as long as the project can be modified and mounted.
Jason - If you use a standard "slicer" to slice without scaling the object it will print the exact dimensions. However the resin will shrink up to 1% after fully cured. So we suggest printing a calibration object which is then measured to produce a scaling factor. Most slicer's will allow you to scale the .stl file before slicing. By doing this you can print a very slightly over sized object which will shrink to the correct size once fully cured.
This may have been covered before but: is the printed object the exact dimensions of the model? i.e if I draw a 10mm x 10mm box and then export the .stl and slice etc - is the printed box exactly 10mm x 10mm ?
I would think if you wanted to use a 1080p projector with the current setup you would fit the width to the same as before which would end up with a lower Y distance since it has a different aspect ratio. But then you would end up with almost double the X and Y resolution which would be awesome.
Hugo - I'm anxious to ship! Finally got the Kickstarter funds and paid the deposits to vendors so fabrication and kitting is underway on everything (metal was already underway). Should have everything needed to start packaging and shipping by the end of July!
now I've got the full picture :) it's hard to visualize it without having the machine here... damn i'm anxious ^^'
thanks for the explanation and the quick reply.
Hugo - The xy window (and vat and mechanical vat motion) are sized for a maximum xy object of about 110 x 80 mm (approximate). Increasing xy resolution is possible but not much room to increase xy size without up-sizing everything (including projector light power).
Michael - This last question from Zachary made me wonder, is the window under the VAT large enough for further experiments with higher resolution projectors? If i understood correctly, we can print 10,24 cm x 7,68 (with a resolution of 100 microns in the XY) using a projector that outputs 1024x768 pixels, but if we go for a projector like Zachary described we could theoretically print an area of 19,80cm x 10,8cm at the same 100 microns resolution...
I hope so!
Cool, I imagine other people would be doing the same
Zachary - Difficult to say without buying one and trying to make it work. I'd like to buy a couple sacrificial projectors to test with once I have some time.
Ah ok. How hard would it be to modify it so you could use a 1920x1080 projector? I see there's the Vivitek D950HD that supports 1080p, along with a model with higher lumens
Zachary - It won't focus any closer without a further lens modification. It might be better to go with a higher resolution projector.
CarterTG - I'm always vague about the future :-) My plan is to make sure I get the kickstarter rewards delivered as promised. Sales will take care of itself if I do a good job with that.
Michael, as backers, we know what WE want out of this kickstarter project. Maybe it was intentionally left vague on what YOU'd like out of the project (and we're totally OK with that). Speculation can range from simply being acknowledged as founder of the most affordable high-rez SLA (?) machine -or- you're aspiring to turn the kickstarter campaign into a long-term business. If it's the latter, I'd like to point out the buzz from the recent JCK Show in Vegas where the $8990 ASIGA Pico printer got attendees excited: https://www.asiga.com/media/main/files/mjsa_game_changers_editors_review.pdf
A B9C pre-configured to superfine mode with high-rez resin shown off at the 2013 Jewelery Show circuits? You're gonna need a hefty supply of order forms. Cheers!
Yeah, I've noticed though with some other printers at like 50 or 100 there's usually a lot of visible Z layers. Even on 25 for the ring you could see it a bit. It'd be nice to at least match the other printers at 16.
On the X and Y axis is it possible to move the projector even closer for higher resolution there? Like I've actually got things that would be high detail and fit in like a 1"x0.75" space
Or would that mess up the curing time for the resin?
Zachary - Exactly. Ideally the the current resin will work with a very short cure time as that would speed up the build rate. Increases in only Z resolution will not improve the look of an object where the xy shape changes slowly with respect to Z. (ie, nearly vertical surfaces will still have distinct xy resolution stair step features). It will improve the areas where xy changes rapidly with respect to z (ie, nearly horizontal surfaces). In the ring example that I printed at 25 micron Z the upper and lower curves look really good, but the nearly vertical sides and prongs still show the xy stair steps.
Cool, so I imagine that if you got a resin that would work then you'd just offer that as a high-resolution resin?
Not yet, still focused on logistics to make sure all the parts get here as soon as possible.
Did you ever get your forums up?
Zachary - We've only printed at 25 microns. 10 microns is mechanically no different. But I'm not sure I can control the depth of cure to 10 microns using only exposure timing (with the current B9R-1-Red resin). I might have to increase the resin pigmentation to further limit the depth of cure.
So you've been able to print Z-axis resolution of 25 microns. You have listed that it can go down to 10 microns which is better than any other printer I've seen, is that just theoretical or something that you've tested?
Losang - The Sylgard 184 is only needed if your vat coating becomes damaged. We will offer it, along with instructions on how to recoat your vat (or you will be able to send it to us and we will recoat it for a fee).
I am just building up my own B9Creater. Therefore I have to coat the bottom of the vat (plastic box for the resin) with Sylgard 184 which should avoid an adhering of the exposed resin at the bottom. You don't need this to do because the vat in the kit is already coated.
In preparation for the arrival of the B9Creator what additional things will we need in order for it to be fully functional? I notice a mention of Sylgard 184 which will presumably need to be sourced.
Dennis. I use Polytrans (Okino) as a plugin for Maya to export STL , they have one of the most reliable export (and import) filters. you can also read in STL files for modifications. Only if you need to use step files for example you need another program - Rhino 3d used as converter is great. but Polytrans can handle a lot of formats very good.
your analysis is correct. If they created a NetFab Engine for the B9 then your path would be Modeller>NetfabEngine>Print just as envision uses Modeller>MagicsEngine>print.
As for maya Ive no experience with it but a quick websearch says youd need to use a plugin to export .stl like this http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/utility-external/export/c/mayaexportstl
@Techartisian -So let me get this straight.
At its easiest we take a model from a 3D application (A), export as STL., bring into B9creators software (B) to slice (assuming the models airtight, clean, balanced, etc) which will then run the print job directly to the printer (C)
Then if we want more control over print properties like shelling out models, fixing areas that wont print well and even slicing we can opt to get Netfabb which does many things alot of current 3D applications dont offer. This would be our (A2) step if we decide so.
This raises another question. I use Maya and its not made for 3D printing at all. Ive gathered blender has some neat printing tools but even this Im not sure of. What are some thoughts on 3D printing plugins for Maya? Are there any? Thanks.
WalterMo - About 1/16" thick. No, it can be adjusted (both ways) based on the x extents of the slice currently being cured. We found that doing so doesn't really speed up the release cycle and it complicates the software.
Michael, some time ago you mentioned Sylgard 184 for the coating of the vat bottom. What thickness of this layer do you recommend?
Another question: Is it absolutely necessary to move the sled with the vat for the same stroke as the build base is long?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks guys, this slowly helps demystify the nitty-gritties of 3D printing.
Software - Our hope is that by providing a solid open interface to B9Creator, any software developer may adapt their existing platform to produce a *.b9j file which the B9Creator can print. But regardless of 3rd party software support, we expect that the B9Creator software we provide will meet most printing needs.
The best explanation of your question would be to use NetFab as an example. Netfab studio performs model manipulation, support generation, and slicing. BUT it does not run the machine. NetFab offers printer specific ENGINES, These Netfab Engines include the necessary netfab features as well machine specific interface and control functions.
DLP based printing would require Netfab studio Pro with the slice commander add on to be incorporated into an engine...this would put the price of a DLPPrinter engine around $1800 give or take...Unless NetFab decides to change their policies.
What envisiontec uses is not so different.....Materialise built an engine for them using Magics as the core adding in machine specific features to let it run the system.
Many 3dsystems printers run on a Materialise Magics engine as well. But as Magics starts around $7k+ its not really approachable for the average hobbyist.
Thanks a lot for your explanation, as always right on the spot.
Yes, cross-platform is definitely a must have and a worthy pain in the long run, it will open the use of the B9creator to a much wider public, and a wider public means a bigger number of heads thinking how to tweak it into perfection (if it exists something like perfection ^^')
My casual browsing from a month ago seems to suggest EnvisionTec is using/rebranding(?) software from Materialise Magics. http://www.youtube.com/watch…
As this is entirely new territory for many of us, how proprietary is the relationship between 3D printers in general versus the manufacturing software? Are SLA printers built to operate against a common set of rules such that we can pull software off the shelf (like Magics) and expect some level of operation? Or does there need to be some in-between code to translate between Magics and B9C? As I (probably incorrectly) understand it for CNC mills, they all understand G-Code -- something CAM software generates.
Hugo - a "voxel" is just a "pixel" of certain thickness. Controlling the thickness (pigment and cure time are the main variables for a given light intensity) is the trick. The video looks like marketing hype to me. There are numerous free slicing software packages (slic3r, freesteel, etc.) that will create a folder full of sliced images. Our printer software can work from that type of data, but we also can slice stl based models using the slicer we've developed. Of course, a slicer can only do so much if the original stl model is flawed (non-solid model). The free software I mentioned can be found here: http://dlp3dprinter.wordpress.com/software/ (it's looking pretty nice!) I intend to release a B9Creator utility that will convert slices from this (and any other slice generator) to a "B9 Job File" (*.b9j) format which is the format the B9Creator uses to store a print job. This job file not only stores the slices (in a very efficient compressed format) but also other required job information such as slice thickness, resin exposure requirements, etc. We spent time this week verifying our software compiles and runs on Windows, OS X (Lion), and Linux. Making everything cross-platform compatible is a pain, but worth it in the long run I think.
While waiting for my machine to arrive so i can start playing with it I've been researching about professional DLP printers and came through the Envisiontec, the secret for such nice prints seems to be not the hardware itself but the slicing software they use http://youtu.be/_qxXT-AMmdU in combination with their own resin formulas...
My question is, how is your software going to work? some comments ago you said someone was already developing free software considering your hardware, do you know which kind of slicing process wil they implement?
As for the Miicraft looks like they are using a mini DLP PICO projector similar to the ones used to beam from mobile devices and some laptops, i'm afraid the resolution and the cure times wont be comparable to yours due to the small scale of the components (bulbs and lenses).
Again, congrats for your awesome work and keep UP :)
Peter - They list their resolution on that page, the B9Creator is a bit better and our build area is larger. Ambient lighting hasn't been a problem yet? I wouldn't suggest letting it sit outside in bright sunlight while storing unused resin in the vat for several days :-) but in normal indoor lighting there shouldn't be any issues. The windows filter all the blue light out, lower frequency colors don't affect the resin.
Have you seen the MiiCraft? http://igg.me/p/91641
How does our resolution compare?
@Michael, you designed a prettier machine, and did a great job of making us comfortable to back you. But do we need to worry about ambient light? Can light reach the resin from the projectors light entrance? Plus, I know I'll be watching my objects build, if even only by recording and playing back at 40x like you do.
Yongkiat... sorry misspelled your name in my last post ^^'
@Yonkiat, you can for sure have a larger build area, but at the expense of a higher resolution beamer, wich means a more expensive machine, I believe that when this tech gets a bit more spread and the search for parts rise, the companies that produce DLP beamers will feed the market with more afordable ones... just a matter of time ^^', for now focus on testing this one and learn all you can from it.
As for the software, you can use any 3D modeling program of your choice, I use Rhinoceros and Alias Studio to model my Designs depending on if i need a geometrical part or a more organic one, they are not free, but they do a pretty good job :)
It certainly would be nice if we can have a larger build area. BTW, what software would be best for scaling and slicing a complex model?
Good input guys, thanks!
I would settle for the same resolution with a larger build area.
Though if an increase in the supply side of things brings the costs down, I could see this as the next iteration.....the B9 HD, the B9 UV HD, etc..... At least there is a direction to reach for after perfecting this version which can readily be BASED on all the original effort. Since you are providing professional DIY alternatives to the "big name tools" with "big name prices," I imagine it would only make sense to do if your component costs were such that you could deliver at a max of $3000-$3500. Anything more than that is too far out of reach.... Though some premium should be expected over the original model.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on how i would position the news, but my guess is that you're already a few steps ahead of us in that department. ;-)
Dan - Luckily we already have low cost visible light HD DLP chips available (via consumer projectors). The specialty, UV HD chips in the press release are very expensive and as visible light resins become more available (and less expensive) I'm not sure I see much advantage to them?
Have you seen this?
TI brings HD to 3-D printing
R. Colin Johnson ee times
6/19/2012 3:38 PM EDT
DALLAS -- Texas Instruments said this week it is adapting its HD digital light processor (DLP) chipset for rapid prototyping systems that can print 3-D objects.
By optimizing the DLP for UV light, the surface of a receding photo-activated polymer can be formed into 3-D objects for custom and one-off precision manufacturing. UV-optimized DLPs are also used for exposing photo-active resists in pc boards with a virtual mask, laser repairs and computer-to-plate printing.
"Engineers had been taking apart projectors to get at the DLP chips for years, but now we have several lines for different applications such as our UV models optimized for curing polymers," said Mariquita Gordon, a TI vice president. "Our latest UV optimized model will offer higher resolution—1920 by 1080 pixels--over our current XGA model with 1024 by 768 pixels."
The HD model, like its XGA predecessor, is optimized for UV light by tweaking the gas mixture inside the package, enabling the DLP to cure photo-active polymers without being damaged by the corrosive effects of the high-energy light source.
EnvisionTec Inc. (Ferndale, Mich.), 3D Systems Corp. (Rockville, S.C.) and others currently offer DLP-based 3-D printers for rapid prototyping, one-off- and personalized manufacturing. PC-board makers are also using UV-optimized DLPs for mask-free lithography, enabling them to quickly revise circuit board layouts.
The new HD models available later this year are being promoted as delivering better quality for rendering detailed structures at the surface of the photo-active polymer and doubling throughput for maskless pc-board makers.
That would be quite small.
And thats another benefit if you spend the money on such a smartly designed piece of engineering rather than on a DIY- and makeshift-solution.
Diego - For the kit, ~ 24x 24 x 14" (61 x 61 x 36 cm). The shipping box design is not 100% yet.
Mike, do you know the dimensions of the complete box that you will send by mail?
..."when your inside the paradigm shift you can't see the shift"... looks like we all here do ;)
Got to congratulate the rest of the "pioneers"(Backers) and give a big UP to Mike for making this possible ... we are making History :)