by Ares Games
I totally love the idea of this expansion! A 'survival mode' is fantastic for some light gaming or character optimisation, and having an elimination hero tournament will be great fun, too.
The only thing on my wish list would be a different cover artwork. At least one of the heroes was featured on every one thus far, and I'd much prefer to see this tradition continuing than the close-up of the Nemean lion. I know, nitpicking :)
I'm going to pass on this one. I'd only be interested in the Gods of the Arena part, not any of the 3 extra modes.
I love this, a PVP mode will be so fun!
It's good to have more options. For my friends & me, PVP in S&S is a really good news!
I'm definitely adding this one, but with the mixed responses, I am glad it's an add-on. Some people don't feel like it fits, so they can skip it. Some people love it, and they can get it. It's good that we're not wasting a stretch goal on something a lot of people don't want.
The 120$ gets more & more irrevelant with all the add-on thrown at us.
For that pledge base price. I expected more as a backer. And pay less for add-on.
This add on bumps S&S up in my collection. It is exactly what will keep S&S on the table longer in between campaign play. This will also attract more people into the game when I take it to the LGS to demo.
Two thumbs up.
@Vedran - There's a lot of tiles in this one, more than any of the other expansions as I recall (which sell for considerably more than $30 at SRP) and I suspect the thickness of the tiles make them the most expensive of the components for S&S in production and possibly design. The minis are always the obvious thing we think of when it comes to cost, but foten the other components are what become more expensive in production and design. I think it was on Solomon Kane where the designers said that miniatures don't really impact the shipping weight, but rather the amount of cards and tiles that affect your total shipping price.
Anyway, just like the other controversy with the alternate models, Ares has made this an optional buy. Don't want it, don't get it. Not every expansion is going to match everybody's expectations or wants.
Weill, I dont mind that Ares earns some money with addtional content as I see kickstarter as palttform not to get bargains on games but the opportunity to make projects happen which you believe in . Thx for bringing Black rose war to my attention as there is a late pledge.
Just a suggestion for the team: as a stretch goal add hero versions of both monsters contained in this kit.
This would turn this box in a double character box plus an entire coop sidequest, and allow players to do an all-monster party if they wanted (adding Volkor, the upcoming werebeast stretch goal, and perhaps a werewolf player).
This would push the value from very low to high to resist by just adding a few cards, and a different color of the same miniature casts (in fact at that point 30$ would be a no brainer for this set).
@Clint Lee Wener
well if it was easy to implement, meaning not much new content developed, why do they charge us 30$? it is 25% of base pledge for as you say easy to implement mode which adds little to core game. why? we got 10 quests in base pledge so we could get 2-3 more quests with that money. thats what I want. no 1 crosover side quest.
I'm with Ares on this. I can't understand the pushback on a simple PVP mechanic. The combat rules are already there. I'm sure it did not take much to implement this new 'mode' as it were. Having these hero vs hero fights gives you a way to play S&S in quick one-off games both for when you don't have time and when you want to ease a new player into the rules. hell, you could even use it as a kind of 'trial level' to see which hero best suits your play-style without going into the full-on tutorial quest.
i can also see some other concerns behind this. Black Rose wars is incoming late pledge and they offered Ares to push their backers us to BRW KS and in return got minis to sell us for 30$, so win-win for them, but double cost for backers of S&S and BWS, because they pay twice for same minis. Shout out to Ares, your mission is to bring value to your backers, not take away from them. thats if you want make money in long run other than taking quick buck with this cheap tricks. i havent commented before here, but this really makes me sad.
@Gremlin Project. The point is compared to your other content. Like arcane portal and. which is about the same price as this add on (at least in retail from miniature market). This has significant less miniatures and seemingly less content.Like for example if you don't want PVP in this game at all. Thats part of this expansions content that will NEVER be used. That is then exacerbated by people who may want it for just the co op parts. Which means for me that part of my money/their money (depending if you agree with me or not) feels wasted. Also for me cant speak for others. I am here because this is a co op game. I want co op content only. And arena is about the most boring content their is for me personally. Its typically fight x monsters go to next round, repeat. Not really great story content. which for me is a good chunk of why i am here. Not trying to hate on it. Just wanted to be more clear on MY view. If this is the route you want to take thats fine. I just think adding a new mechanic that this game was not about before. Isnt something people like me will like. NOW if it was completely separate from the Co op part of the game. And pvp was its own expansion. Be my guest. I just feel like im losing value here because if i want to play the co op part and NEVER play pvp im wasting some money on it.
i think you fail to understand the concept of opportunitiy cost. It does not mean someone is opposed to adding PvP option, but incase they are buying this game as solo/co-op game they would rather you invest funds in developing core of the game. we don't want you just throw new enemies and treasures at us (most of last few are either copy of heroes - nemesis, or copy of other games - crossover. which feels like you dont have any more ideas or you try to lower your costs.
@All, I really can't understand the position of someone :(
The PVP Feature is the last of the four modes, and it was added to enhance the value of the box, I think it is really fun to discover "which hero is the best!" don't you? And in any case the point is, this is an additional feature, nothing was removed from the purely solo/coop contents that represent the main focus of course, with a story, some new deadly enemies and most important... some unique treasures to achieve!
It's an add-on, not a stretch goal... I'm perfectly fine with them giving players options in add-on's that don't impact the main campaign of the kickstarter.
Seeing a PvP feature always concerns me for a natively co-op game (as noted by others, takes focus away from the core, a feature that won't be used that requires development, support, funds etc.) but after I got over that shock, this might be good for a quick one-off game without having to set up the whole game/campaign, so good for friends that drop over that have not played before or you just want a quick battle as you don't have a lot of time etc.
It still does of course have all the side quest content as well, so the value is definitely there, even if you don't use the PvP (which I won't) :)
The Nemean lion here evokes Thun the Lionman from Flash Gordon, and given the 'sword and planet' is a kind of sci-fi equivalent to sword and sorcery as a genre, i think that imagery is rather fitting.
A 1 vs all mode would really change the entire mechanics of the game. Already have Conan if I want that kind of gameplay.
Got to say... Not a fan of this. I know its optional. I know its a side quest. I Also know PvP is optional, However when i hear PvP in my co op games, its a turn off no matter what. why? At the very least time anf effort went into making the pvp elements. Time and resources that could have been made to furthering the only game made this game has been,Co-oP. Secondly yes i do know this can still be co op. However even then it seems lessened by the inclusion of PvP instead of a focused PvE. on top of that i really dont like the arena style of content in this type of game. super cliche, and for me does not appeal in any RPG I play. I also know its optional. Which is great. However I was looking forward to pure co op content. And this falls short compared to the other expansions in the first KS.
So... a lizard man, or a goblin man, or a dragon man, all those are ok with you but a lion man takes you out of the fantasy?
I'd also point out, at least personally, a 1 vs all mode is something I would outright shun lmao.
Gotta say, This is the first S&S item that does not interest me much at all. Only the "Gods of the Arena" part seems like it has much to do with everything else in S&S. Sure this is an add-on that I can skip, but I really don't like the premise of the figures here.
Just some muscle-bound dude with a lion's head being a creature in S&S takes me out of the fantasy feel here. I real lion or the real Cerberus would have been much preferable. Maybe a fire giant gladiator or perhaps a beast master elf would have made more sense and feel more "right". I just hope people with animal heads (or cross-overs!) don't become common in base sets and full expansions for S&S going forward.
If we are going to add new ways to play S&S, I would much prefer an Overlord vs. the Players version! That would be great (but probably worthy of its own campaign).
I'm definitely looking forward to this extra, FWIW. Hopefully the design space lets the Gremlins think of new tactical challenges that can't be done in regular missions.
Don't get me wrong, this add-on is a must add and a great value but I'm not sure about the crossover aspect of it. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with Black Rose Wars, just seems to be taking 1 miniature and using it in a different context. Seems like an original design would have served just as well or better here...
All that said I hope more comes from the partnership between these two properties as they are both among my favorites.
Maybe I assumed the concept of "side quest" was clear, while it is not, based on your question. A SIDE quest is a quest which can be incorporated at certain points in a campaign. For example, Arcane Portal (part of the Immortal Souls cycle) can be played in-between Immortal Souls and Darkness Falls - or not.
Side quests are designed so that their possible outcomes do not make or break the game. You may get benefits by completing them - but not as much to make the later quests too easy.
PvP Is "not" the main mode of this expansion (it's not by chance we list it last), The expansion is mostly geared into providing a "pure combat experience"in a variety of mode - quest, endless challenge, "tower defense" - AND PvP.
@Paul Baker for us, an enemy is a combination of scroll + card + miniature. It's quite normal in S&S that an enemy appears as different colors of miniatures to represent varying level of power. This expansion has "4 enemies" in the same way Immortal Souls has "14 enemies".
I think a few if us might have missed a couple things in the update.
Great work Ares and Gremlins. Happy to toss my $ your way.
Sorry to say I also do not see the value here. And this expansion looks to be more PvP oriented, a modus I'm not at all interested in.
How is this four enemies?
Looks like two colors of the same two, to me.
Is there some way that this ties into the core game, or is this just a battle arena game added-on to make $30.00...? Or just a way to use left-over minis from the other game perhaps?
I don't see the value in this.. how about more S&S content????.... please!!!
I am a total fan of all things Sword & Sorcery, but for this last add-on I think I will need some more convincing. How does the arena tie in to the greater story of S&S? Is it purely an arena or are story elements infused that cross over to the S&S arch? Are the trap and loot cards only usable in the arena or do they carry over into the campaign? To summarize, is this a stand alone game with the chars of s&s fighting or am I missing out on the campaign/loot/possible events if I pass on the arena stuff?
PVP is a great idea and a unique game mode in itself. This is one expansion that brings a lot to the table and really makes the most out of all the assorted heroes in the game.
@Vicent- storywise, both enemies are unique, and you are not going to meeet the red and purple version at the same time. OTOH, once you have them, you can use them as "normal" monsters if you want.
#Cerberus - He's called Cerberus, but not necessarily THAT Cerberus. Or maybe he is. You know, myths and legends --- they never tell you the whole story!
Ares have gone completely left field with this update. The original game was great but things have gone a bit too whacky for my liking.
Swords and Sillyness
@Emgrimm yeah I like them as they are, pretty cool
Look at his helmet and shouldpads, the 3 dog heads are there :) Same with the Nemean Lion, he's the lion that Hercules defeated, but here he's more of a human with a lion's head. It's a cool reimagining for Sword and Sorcery :)
Checked it out they are actually called Cerbero in the Black Rose Wars.
@Ares might just need to double check that as I think a few people would read Cerberus and expect the dog guarding the gates of hell :)
While I won't use the PVP portion ever, the other 3 modes sound cool, plus I'm glad to hear it can be incorporated within either campaign.
@Ares how exactly does incorporating it work? Is it like a new map location you can go to and choose to participate in a fight?
I always thought Cerberus was a three-headed dog. Guess I need to go look at why it isn’t here...
Seems like a very strange add-on for S&S. I do not anticipate buying this one, but I am sure it will appeal to some.
This Nemean Lion and Cerberus are unique characters? I mean, we had red and purple versions to change difficulty, but they are the same character, I understand?
What? Humanoid cerberus? He looks really weird, thats a pity...
Ooooh... oh this is some awesome news. And those playing modes add new layer of excitement. Looove it.
Awesome add-on, but alas I'll have to add it in the pledge manager when more funds are available.
Perfect. Ares wins.