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An update would be nice.......
Yes, another update is overdue. Would love to know where things stand now...
Hello.... I donated 15 a while back and never got the link to watch the digital download.... how do I see this thing already?
What happened to Diesel LaForce Greyhawk print? I've never seen mine. Anyone else have one delivered?
You guys should probably e-mail him if you want an update--he usually responds to e-mail quickly, and he gave them in the last update (or suggest he post here, which is what I personally did last time). I doubt much can be said from his camp until some more progress occurs legally.
As for those delays, the latest from those public court docs indicate that some of the arguments won't be dealt with until at least early march. I suspect there will be another month or so until we see any progress besides "time to extend answer to the complaints".
an update would be appreciated...
Check out the KS page for "The Other Project"
It currently blank with the text "XXXProjectXXX is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.
Thanks for your patience."
For those interested, In case people were wondering about the lawsuit, it looks like 2 new documents appeared--filed the 17th but I just saw them Yesterday.
The case was delayed...it looks like both parties agreed to alter the time of the motions to a later date, but the judge just ruled that the case for TGK to dismiss the suit was denied, and that in early February a preliminary hearing will be held. Nothing really indicates if there are still some settlement talks going on (very likely), or if the appeal is going through (more doubtful since those are harder to get). I suspect a lot of the silence here is based on these reasons. If the earlier documents are correct, I think the judge was supposed to review both films first so that would explain a lot of the silence here.
Annnd.... over a month with no update or interviews. I like stating the obvious; it's my hobby.
What "shortly" means to you [the film crew] ? more consideration via communication for backers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Whoa! A lot of requests for updates, I feel like I'm at the DMV. I'll just take a ticket and wait in line for my 'update'.
Hi, it's been nearly a month since you have been working on an update, or that is what your last comment says, and over 3 months from the last update.
I would appreciate some news...
Hello. An update of some context, good or bad, would be a respectful and considerate action on Iconoscope Films/Westpaw Film's behalf. You have a lot of Backers here who believed in making this possible... if it can not be, then a reimbursement of funds is in order.
Just to add, I think the most frustrating thing about this type of thing is the lack of communication that occurs when a lawsuit happens, because of gag orders and the legal concept of "don't say anything more than you need to". While I've contributed to several Kickstarters that were both good and bad, this is the first one where there were legal elements involved that actually prevented the normal transparency process.
I think Kickstarter should put something in the TOS to make sure folks can provide details to the backers when needed--that could be overridden by a judge but if there's a legal obligation placed in the TOS, the courts would take that into account.
I also think Kickstarter should, rather than take a page down with a simple note, point or provide more information such as a link to a court case or at least a link to a PDF of the desist order, and give backers an update on the status of their funds.
I think we have to wait since there's obviously been a delay in the court process. No updates have been made from the public court interface since September 2014, which either means that the court has delayed or is going through a private process, or there's some serious arbitration / negotiations going on which require both parties to remain silent. (Either that or NY is slow in getting updates on the public interface).
I doubt refunds can be given at this point since the money is already spent and the documentary has been previewed at GenCon.
We either need a serious update with some specifics or really, you should consider offering refunds. I was so excited about this, now i just feel ripped off and disappointed.
Still waiting on an update...
Since you managed to get the other project shut down, how about you finish this up and get it out so you can prove what they were saying about you wrong?
Hi everyone. We are working on an update and will have it shortly. We will also be sharing some interview clips as well in the next couple weeks.
Will I see a film? Or will my contribution become vaporware?
Can we have an update, please, on what is going on with this project?
It's been a couple months now since the last update. Any word on the status? Will we see the documentary before the end of the year?
Yeah, I understand and didn't expect a comment--my sole purpose in posting is to let the backers know the potential progress of this unfortunate situation.
We can't comment at this point, I'm sure you understand.
For those wondering, according to the court docs, both sides look like they're trying to work out a settlement--they suspended one of the defenses motions (the defense is trying to get the case dismissed and appeal the injunction). So it looks like either by October we'll have a settlement or the courts will still go through the process.
Thanks Speno. We will write an update soon.
Story about the lawsuit in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/nyregion/a-quest-to-make-a-dungeons-dragons-film-turns-into-a-legal-battle.html
Sorry you are just finding out about this.
The film has been delayed by many months by legal issues.
We have a moral obligation to our funders to resolve this issue before raising more money. Feel free to read the court documents if you have any questions. They will have a lot of answers for you.
Were is the film? How ironic that a story of greed and lawsuits over a creative endeavor has become its own story of greed and lawsuits over a creative endeavor. Pathetic.
Hey Chris, We are trying our best and we appreciate your patience and everyone's patience.
Thanks John for keeping abreast and even fro posting here. We've been so busy with so many aspects that sometimes a whole day goes by where I haven't checked here.
Youseph, We couldn't agree more.
It would be nice if there could be an agreement but this is a breakup between two sets of partners, and the desire to see two films doesn't trump that consideration. But if the second film can't be completed hopefully they can refund the money to all the backers.
I would like to see both films completed. As a consumer, this whole thing sucks.
I would like to point out that kickstarters routinely do not finish within projected deadlines, and that this alone is not sufficient reason to receive a refund.
I am very grateful that the folks in charge here keep us up to date and attempt to be as forthright as possible. That is better treatment than I have received from several other kickstarters.
There's some interesting discussions about this at a facebook group.
Actually, I don't think it's "good news" for this project. This lawsuit seems to also be dragging down this project from being completed. I can't really tell who's right or wrong based on all the court documents--it will be ultimately up to a judge to decide. I can only hope both parties make sure to take care of the backer money and keep it in some kind of escrow where it's affected.
Thanks for that link John! Interesting development for the other film. I thought the other project had posted at one point that the injunction was not successful, but maybe that was for something else.
Good news for this project!
Kickstarter apparently doesn't like that link. Try this one.
In the interest on keeping transparency up, this project was successful in getting an injunction against the other project, which can be summed up here.
(I was going to post to both sites but Kickstarter took the other project down as part of the "no solicitation" part of the injunction).
We are working very hard to finish the film. I apologize for what has happened. There was a long delay as we tried to protect the film, not from ego or because of it, but to actually make it at all. We have been waiting to raise funds for over a year at this point because of the legal problems. None of us, and I think I can say this for everyone involved, wanted this. Please write to me personally if you want to talk.
I would like my investment of 1000 dollars back, because what I invested in didn't happen because of the egos of the people involved. A film was promised to be completed by May 2014. It is now August. Whatever legal issues are happening are not my concern nor do I care what effect it has had on finishing the film. Where is the promised film?
We are currently in a legal battle with two of the ex-producers of this film. We are in the unfortunate situation of wanting to, needing to share with backers, but at the same time protecting the film.
Hopefully at the end of the month we will be able to start sharing more. Seriously, it's been painful not to share and detrimental to the growth of the film, so we are looking to resolve the problems as soon as we can and hopefully share the clip. Write to me if you have any other questions. firstname.lastname@example.org.
I hope you don't mind my asking, but if you're showing the trailer at Gen Con to the public, you should be able to show it to your backers--especially those who cannot attend Gen Con. What's the difference?
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I imagine that you must have a lot on your plate right now, so that was really nice of you. However, I do want to point out that most of my previous comment was a copy & paste from Benoist Poire (Ernie Gygax’s business parter), so the views expressed so eloquently within are his. As for me, I'd honestly love to see both films.
Apparently to find filings made by the plaintiffs you have to search one engine and then go to decisions on that state website to find what the judge says--weird, it's not like PACER where you can see everything about the case in one Docket list.
Because both sides have their own opinions on this Kickstarter disagreement, I encourage people to keep up with the case on their own.
If you want to keep track of the case, go here:
Login as Guest, fill out the captcha, and then search for WESTPAW and you'll find all the filings to date. I'm not sure why everything is not up there yet--the initial injunction was denied.
Also, this is the latest order. The 30th of July will be a decision making date for the complaint.
We understand your concerns and when a legal issue is brought into the public eye, often much can be misconstrued. Please know we have not taken legal action lightly nor have we wanted to it to end up where it is today. In fact we attempted for months to settle this outside of court even though we were counseled by many to do otherwise.
We can support multiple D&D films and we are 100% in support of creative, independent filmmaking. What we are saying is this: when time, energy, and assets are invested in a partnership, some of the partners cannot simply decide to go off and compete with the original partnership. These films are clearly not covering entirely different aspects of D&D's rich history. We simply cannot stand by and and have our hard work, research, and good faith for this film taken to be used for another by the original partners.
We understand you are concerned. As a backer we ask that you reach out to us directly to hear our side of the story prior to making a full assessment. If you re-read this you will see our complaint is backed with evidence. https://www.dropbox.com/s/nozd3cwui0bom9a/1%20summons%20complaint%281%29.pdf
All the people you mentioned below were originally interviewed for this film with the exception of Jeff. We, like many, thought he had passed.
You can contact us here at Kickstarter or at email@example.com
This guy seems to think they do, I found his comment on a post about the two docs. He's a business partner of Ernie Gygax Jr. Definitely made me consider backing the other project:
BenoistJuly 14, 2014 at 11:13 AM
I will repost my comment about the legal document and the timing of the kickstarter here, though they were previously posted on My Other Sword Is Vorpal:
All the court documents summarize is what one party has against the other. It is not factual, but alleged. I wish some people would make the difference. Moreover, I wish people would concentrate on the goal itself, which is to tell D&D's story to the world.
Dungeons & Dragons: A Documentary and the Great Kingdom both need to happen, because these are documentaries focusing on different aspects of D&D's history, both of which deserve to be seen and heard. I know this is how Andrew Pascal and the crew of the Great Kingdom feels - that both documentaries should succeed, not one or the other.
I do not know first hand how Anthony Savini (who is behind D&D: A Documentary) feels about this, but judging by his filings, I'd say he disagrees on that particular point.
At the end of the day, that dispute doesn't matter to me. What matters is that we have a chance to see a part of the history of the game told by the people who were there. The children of Gary, Mary Jo, Gary's former wife, Rob Kuntz, Jim Ward, Jeff Perren and many more sat in front of the camera for hours each to tell their stories. How many more times do you think these types of efforts can happen with the same people assembled? If the Great Kingdom does not happen, who will then try to tell the story from the same angle, which is not the one D&D: A Documentary chose to explore? When would that happen - 5 years, 10 years, 20 years down the road? Who then will remain? Who will still be alive to talk about what happened?
The Great Kingdom is a unique documentary that needs to happen. If it happens with D&D: A Documentary, I'll be thrilled. I want to make sure both happen, and for the moment, that means helping the Great Kingdom kickstarter cross that finish line.