Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
That's the thing--we are not asking for any details of the project, or anything that would compromise any legal strategy.
We are simply asking for an update after going almost 16 months without any update. All that could be said would be something like "Sorry this is taking so long, we hope to go to trial by X date, and you're investment with us is safe". Just a paragraph or two to let us know that things are still progressing, etc.
For me it's not about the money I invested, it's a simple sign of respect to the people who contributed to this project. Being silent and even not answering emails about the project is a real bad sign.
Thanks for the Matlock-level insight into our legal system Kevin. Yes, coming onto Kickstarter and giving the backers an update will give the whole plan up! Very insightful.
Also, for those wondering why there haven't been a lot of updates on the trial. You have to be really careful while in active litigation what you reveal about the lawsuit. They keep the details close to their chests for a very good reason.
Folks, I invested $75.00 into this project. As with any Kickstarter I was fully aware that it was an investment that might one day not pay off. This particular project took a crazy turn due to some bad actors (in my opinion at least) and I have a hard time blaming the folks that are still attempting to bring this project to light.
I personally have a lot of faith that I will one day see something, I've met the remaining team in person and they want to get this made. Here's the thing for anyone still cynical though, when you invest in something you have to remind yourself that your money has become a sunk cost, it is no longer yours. You can certainly be upset, you can vow to never back a project by that individual again, but you aren't getting it back. Nor should you.
The problem with crowd funding is that you are not paying money for a product or service but are making a micro investment, the courts do not care that you made a bad investment. This seems to be the forth project that has failed to deliver that I have invested in.
I wonder what the viability of taking this to small claims court is, to get my money back?
@Francis, while I had once had that take, there are a few issues with that right now.
The key thing is the person in charge of this Kickstarter, Anthony Savini, has not posted anything here in over a year. Not even a single update to let people know the status of the lawsuit (like when he thinks it's going to trial), even if he can't do anything more about the documentary. There's also a facebook page maintained for this documentary and it stopped updating last summer. I believe it is important for him to update the backers--especially since the injunction against his former partners has also prevent them from speaking about this lawsuit from their perspective. He also did not respond to a few emails I sent to him asking for another update.
I "understand the realities", but there's really no excuse for not communicating with the backers. All parties involved with this lawsuit are on the hook for this and have paid money. One thing I remember is that those who backed the second project have their money in an escrow account preventing anybody from accessing it--so it's just sitting protected from spending--at this point I'd like to see a decision made so those backers can get their money back and they can try for funding later. And I'd also like to think now that maybe this project should get some refunds.
I am very sympathetic to Kickstarters having risk, but this situation has been dragged on for a while and I think perhaps we should investigate potential options. At the very least, the lack of communication shows a sign of disrespect for the money that was donated and the backers. I have to wonder if the judge of the case knows about the "third party(ies)" involved here.
I didn't realize you worked for Paizo. What department are you in? Legal?
Please don't presume to know what companies are doing outside of posting here.
As much as that may irritate us given how long the process is taking. Paizo contributed a hefty sum to see this be made, they have more right to complain than any of us but they are not complaining as they understand the realities of this unfortunate situation.
They can't give you an update until the litigation is concluded. They can't release the film until the litigation is concluded. From what they have said in the past it is essentially ready but cannot be released while the ownership of the film is in contention. A charge-back will fail since the money you spent was to get a film made and then get a copy of it (and some other things for higher level backers all of which have, I believe, already been taken care of). The money was spent on the film, then some of the parties involved decided to use footage made for it to make their own film, it is being determined if this was acceptable and who owns this footage. Once this is done we will get our movie but since the money was spent on exactly what we paid for and the copies of the film will certainly be released to us once they legally can be we just need to wait.
This was the first Kickstarter that really failed to produce anything for me.... the second was made by Russians... ugh
First Kickstart I ever backed. Should have been a warning to me.
It has been almost 4 and half years since you collected the monies for this project, and though I understand you've had some legal and ownership issues, can we, your sponsors, please get an honest comment around the viability of this project. I'd much prefer an honest answer of "unfortunately we won't be able to fulfill" than just more statements about a lawsuit.
I actually surprised that someone hasn't tried to sue you for breach of contract for this Kickstarter. I'm not advocating it, but rather stating that with a 4 year gap and over $150K invested, this has gone past the point of ridicule.
Isn't it about time for our yearly update?
You know, I understand that alot of things can't be said due to the court case(s) but it would be great to get even a small acknowledgement from the creators that there are 3584 backers still waiting and wondering what is happening. :/
I don't think this project is ever actually going to be finished.
I did check the legal site, one new doc was printed...all it does is push back end of discovery to July 1st.
So, I don't think this will get to the court until late this year. :-(
I almost forgot abou this one . Legal issues suck
@John R. Troy thanks for the info, it seems there is no simple way :(
With the last update being a year ago I am pretty sure at this point were not getting a movie :(
Well, it's concerning now that I sent an email again to both addresses on file for Anthony a few days ago, no response, as well as just the long silence here and on the Facebook page. The court interface isn't giving out any new details about the progress of this lawsuit as well.
I think with the docs in litigation it makes it hard to get money back for those asking. You would likely have to file either an Intervention something similar and submit it to the current lawsuit--as the people who backed one (or both) of these lawsuits, we might have a case to get refunded, though that's likely to be a complicated process, and I'd probably just wait for the process to complete rather than spend additional money--I'd rather see something produced.
I don't care anymore about the project, seeing as they don't care enough to update us on its status, so either way I would prefer to have the money back, does anyone know if there's a way to ask for it?
I think it was said early that, at least with The Great Kingdom, the money is in escrow and if they lose all the backers get that money back, since the money wasn't transferred from KS to the defendants.
I am concerned about this one though. I emailed Anthony suggesting he update this KS and haven't received a response (I've done this in the past and gotten within 48 hours), and I noticed that this project's Facebook page hasn't been doing the Social Media updates since Summer. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing. I do hope we get some kind of update before the end of the year.
I am in deep shit then as I am a backer both of this documentary and the competing one, so best case scenario one of them wins at court and the other will never see the light so i will lose money yes or yes.
Moreover, i have already suffered a loss of 300 bucks due to the failed Zano KS drone project (where we were all miserably ripped off while KS kept their fees), so i can tell you that my bet is on NONE of these documentaries ever seeing the light of day.
Consider the money lost. Bye bye kickstarter.
Agreed. A "We're still alive" update would be nice.
@John, thank you for taking the time to post updates from the court proceedings. I hope I am representative of some block of backers that are disappointed that the documentary is hostage to civil proceedings but still look forward to a documentary at some point. I have spent all of my life without the documentary and can afford to be patient for a good one to be made.
My enthusiasm is not a concern--I have already backed the project. The enthusiasm of the producers is a concern. For a project whose rewards come from passion than any lucrative windfall, the heartache and stress implied by the litigation is a greater cause for concern.
Every update revealing content generated for the documentary has been fun, thrilling, and informative. I am content to wait and only hope to encourage the project team.
There's been one update--it's a short handwritten court note:
NOI and Discovery extended to 1/31/2017
Compliance Conference 1/19/2017
Dispotive Motion Returnable Date 3/1/2017
So the waiting game continues...
While I have defended this KS, I also think this long without an update is not good. We should at least get an update from this Kickstarter because it's been really quiet, even if there's nothing much more they can say, just so we know they are still around.
Kevin has concisely summarized what he and I have already said several times. Additionally, the money was spent on what was outlined in the kick-starter description and it is too late for most forms of charge-back, undermining refund claims on two fronts. This is leaving to one side that the delay is through no fault of the (remaining after the split) creators and we just need to wait until next year at this point.
You all realize they are embroiled in active litigation right? They are embroiled in active civil litigation in New. York. City. It is going to take a while.
I have faith we'll get a Documentary. Calm down, and realize that the update from January is still pretty much the most recent update because court systems move sloooooooow.
A refund option is becoming more and more necessary considering the lack of communication, and thus, respect toward the backers. We can file a complaint via KS.
Well, as far as updates go, there was one doc published, which can be linked to from here:
Basically, seems like is slowly plodding along, but somebody asked for a 3 month delay, so there's not gonna be an actual trial until 2017.
Me: I want to find out if there have been any updates
DM: Roll D20
Me: It's a 1....
DM: You won't get any information for at least 8 months....
(Sigh) how come they don't show any sign.
I'm not gonna be kick any film.
This is ridicules, release you documentary...
Has anyone heard of progress on this?
The owner of the KS hasn't logged in since late January. Not a good sign.
I was dropping by to see how things are going, and my only conclussion is that in absence of project updates, I would really like a refund, even if there were updates, I'm tired of this project.
It's been a non-stop back and forth with no real news for a while now... i'm just tired. (needed to vent somewhere XD)
I checked the court page, and it looks like they are still in the deposition phase--deposition of the defendants happens in mid-July. No other word on things.
Just dropping by to see about updates. Glad to see there are others, too.
At this rate, it might be better if a third film group decided to make a documentary since I feel this is going to be in development hell for a few more years.
So there was a quick document filed in the docket by the court. It basically said that both parties needed more time to complete the following:
2016-08-30 Discovery End Date
2016-09-30 Note of Issue Date
2016-10-30 Dispotive Motion Returnable Date
So, based on what I see back in Doc #73, these are the final three things that need to be completed before the Trial can proceed. They were originally scheduled to be completed before the current date.
This doc tells me two things: the arbitration/negotiation must have failed, and that this is delayed yet again. Unless it gets on the docket quickly, I suspect we won't have the dispute resolved until 2017.
Some of what sparked off the litigation arose over sections being shown at a previous convention. I don't think we can expect it to be shown publicly until after the litigation ends as until then who has the right to show what is disputed, but correct me if I'm wrong creators!
Any updates? Will you be able to attend any of the gaming conventions this year to showcase bits of the film, or is that all under wraps during the litigation?
Well that mediation hearing has likely occurred now without an update so our best guess is that they are going to trial. Self-represented litigants almost always have a very difficult time in court statistically (unless of course they have found a new lawyer but given that they didn't pay the last one this seems unlikely unless they have found someone who will work on a contingency or no win no fee basis). Either way the trial may well break through this roadblock and finally let the filmmakers put together and distribute their film without having to worry about former partners competing with them using footage they both claim to have rights to.
One of the last documents in the case says that there's non-binding mediation hearing April 20th to try to finally resolve the issue, but the legal teams are still working on their stuff in the background (discovery, etc.).
If that doesn't work, it goes back to the judge on May 5th, and the trial was supposed to start around that time, so one way or another I guess progress will be made.
I can only imagine the second the litigation is resolved there will be a flood of information however an update, even if it says nothing has changed would be nice. Ongoing communication keeps everyone's spirits up, however I understand how stressful the litigation must be. It really is unfortunate the other guys didn't listen to their lawyer some time ago now and decided to not agree to the terms he proposed, not pay him, let him go and carry on on their own. Not paying and not listening to a trained legal professional in this sort of situation is unfortunate and has caused everyone involved more grief.
What's the latest?
I am still enthusiastic.
I have been interested in every update that demonstrated the creators skill in capturing the story of the game's history. (I used to have a novel set in the setting for Empire of the Petal Throne, so found that update to be really nice... even if it sadly had to be cut from the intended final product.)
It is disappointing that the project triggered a legal trap +3, but--as it is the history of D&D--I find that somewhat apropos. This has to be a source of stress for the creators and I imagine many of the comments do not help relieve any of that stress.
I can only hope that my sentiments are shared by a large number of the project backers. I am impressed by the creator's demonstrated ability and dedication. I remain patient and hopeful.
There are in my opinion a few misconceptions in recent statements here. I have backed a lot of kickstarters at this point and am familiar with their process. Most projects have been wonderful, positive experiences I have been glad to back and the reward of seeing something I am excited about become real was just as exciting as actually receiving a reward for helping with that process. However, Kickstarter does not recover backer funds or force charge-backs after payment has been processed and that ship sailed long ago. They will encourage creators to either complete their project as best they can or alternatively pay back what they can, but they enforce nothing, keep this in mind. Legal action is your best chance to see a positive outcome if you believe a creator has no intention of fulfilling their obligations. This project however does not have creators that could be accused of this. We know they spent our money researching, shooting interviews and taking journeys to key sites and conventions relevant to the project. They spent it on effects, hiring, editing and everything needed to make this movie a reality. We can't accuse them of not fulfilling until after after the process of litigation is over. This really sucks because it means we have to wait for something, much longer than we thought we would, four years longer in fact (although Kickstarter shipping dates are rarely set in stone). We just have to wait for the conclusion of this litigation, then we can and will get excited to see the movie again and sit down and watch it. If at that point they say they won't be releasing it then we can consider legal action but I don't think they would be fighting so hard and so long over something that they didn't believe needed to be seen through to completion.
@John R. Troy thanks for the info and your insights ^_^