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I think it was said early that, at least with The Great Kingdom, the money is in escrow and if they lose all the backers get that money back, since the money wasn't transferred from KS to the defendants.
I am concerned about this one though. I emailed Anthony suggesting he update this KS and haven't received a response (I've done this in the past and gotten within 48 hours), and I noticed that this project's Facebook page hasn't been doing the Social Media updates since Summer. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing. I do hope we get some kind of update before the end of the year.
I am in deep shit then as I am a backer both of this documentary and the competing one, so best case scenario one of them wins at court and the other will never see the light so i will lose money yes or yes.
Moreover, i have already suffered a loss of 300 bucks due to the failed Zano KS drone project (where we were all miserably ripped off while KS kept their fees), so i can tell you that my bet is on NONE of these documentaries ever seeing the light of day.
Consider the money lost. Bye bye kickstarter.
Agreed. A "We're still alive" update would be nice.
@John, thank you for taking the time to post updates from the court proceedings. I hope I am representative of some block of backers that are disappointed that the documentary is hostage to civil proceedings but still look forward to a documentary at some point. I have spent all of my life without the documentary and can afford to be patient for a good one to be made.
My enthusiasm is not a concern--I have already backed the project. The enthusiasm of the producers is a concern. For a project whose rewards come from passion than any lucrative windfall, the heartache and stress implied by the litigation is a greater cause for concern.
Every update revealing content generated for the documentary has been fun, thrilling, and informative. I am content to wait and only hope to encourage the project team.
There's been one update--it's a short handwritten court note:
NOI and Discovery extended to 1/31/2017
Compliance Conference 1/19/2017
Dispotive Motion Returnable Date 3/1/2017
So the waiting game continues...
While I have defended this KS, I also think this long without an update is not good. We should at least get an update from this Kickstarter because it's been really quiet, even if there's nothing much more they can say, just so we know they are still around.
Kevin has concisely summarized what he and I have already said several times. Additionally, the money was spent on what was outlined in the kick-starter description and it is too late for most forms of charge-back, undermining refund claims on two fronts. This is leaving to one side that the delay is through no fault of the (remaining after the split) creators and we just need to wait until next year at this point.
You all realize they are embroiled in active litigation right? They are embroiled in active civil litigation in New. York. City. It is going to take a while.
I have faith we'll get a Documentary. Calm down, and realize that the update from January is still pretty much the most recent update because court systems move sloooooooow.
A refund option is becoming more and more necessary considering the lack of communication, and thus, respect toward the backers. We can file a complaint via KS.
Well, as far as updates go, there was one doc published, which can be linked to from here:
Basically, seems like is slowly plodding along, but somebody asked for a 3 month delay, so there's not gonna be an actual trial until 2017.
Me: I want to find out if there have been any updates
DM: Roll D20
Me: It's a 1....
DM: You won't get any information for at least 8 months....
(Sigh) how come they don't show any sign.
I'm not gonna be kick any film.
This is ridicules, release you documentary...
Has anyone heard of progress on this?
The owner of the KS hasn't logged in since late January. Not a good sign.
I was dropping by to see how things are going, and my only conclussion is that in absence of project updates, I would really like a refund, even if there were updates, I'm tired of this project.
It's been a non-stop back and forth with no real news for a while now... i'm just tired. (needed to vent somewhere XD)
I checked the court page, and it looks like they are still in the deposition phase--deposition of the defendants happens in mid-July. No other word on things.
Just dropping by to see about updates. Glad to see there are others, too.
At this rate, it might be better if a third film group decided to make a documentary since I feel this is going to be in development hell for a few more years.
So there was a quick document filed in the docket by the court. It basically said that both parties needed more time to complete the following:
2016-08-30 Discovery End Date
2016-09-30 Note of Issue Date
2016-10-30 Dispotive Motion Returnable Date
So, based on what I see back in Doc #73, these are the final three things that need to be completed before the Trial can proceed. They were originally scheduled to be completed before the current date.
This doc tells me two things: the arbitration/negotiation must have failed, and that this is delayed yet again. Unless it gets on the docket quickly, I suspect we won't have the dispute resolved until 2017.
Some of what sparked off the litigation arose over sections being shown at a previous convention. I don't think we can expect it to be shown publicly until after the litigation ends as until then who has the right to show what is disputed, but correct me if I'm wrong creators!
Any updates? Will you be able to attend any of the gaming conventions this year to showcase bits of the film, or is that all under wraps during the litigation?
Well that mediation hearing has likely occurred now without an update so our best guess is that they are going to trial. Self-represented litigants almost always have a very difficult time in court statistically (unless of course they have found a new lawyer but given that they didn't pay the last one this seems unlikely unless they have found someone who will work on a contingency or no win no fee basis). Either way the trial may well break through this roadblock and finally let the filmmakers put together and distribute their film without having to worry about former partners competing with them using footage they both claim to have rights to.
One of the last documents in the case says that there's non-binding mediation hearing April 20th to try to finally resolve the issue, but the legal teams are still working on their stuff in the background (discovery, etc.).
If that doesn't work, it goes back to the judge on May 5th, and the trial was supposed to start around that time, so one way or another I guess progress will be made.
I can only imagine the second the litigation is resolved there will be a flood of information however an update, even if it says nothing has changed would be nice. Ongoing communication keeps everyone's spirits up, however I understand how stressful the litigation must be. It really is unfortunate the other guys didn't listen to their lawyer some time ago now and decided to not agree to the terms he proposed, not pay him, let him go and carry on on their own. Not paying and not listening to a trained legal professional in this sort of situation is unfortunate and has caused everyone involved more grief.
What's the latest?
I am still enthusiastic.
I have been interested in every update that demonstrated the creators skill in capturing the story of the game's history. (I used to have a novel set in the setting for Empire of the Petal Throne, so found that update to be really nice... even if it sadly had to be cut from the intended final product.)
It is disappointing that the project triggered a legal trap +3, but--as it is the history of D&D--I find that somewhat apropos. This has to be a source of stress for the creators and I imagine many of the comments do not help relieve any of that stress.
I can only hope that my sentiments are shared by a large number of the project backers. I am impressed by the creator's demonstrated ability and dedication. I remain patient and hopeful.
There are in my opinion a few misconceptions in recent statements here. I have backed a lot of kickstarters at this point and am familiar with their process. Most projects have been wonderful, positive experiences I have been glad to back and the reward of seeing something I am excited about become real was just as exciting as actually receiving a reward for helping with that process. However, Kickstarter does not recover backer funds or force charge-backs after payment has been processed and that ship sailed long ago. They will encourage creators to either complete their project as best they can or alternatively pay back what they can, but they enforce nothing, keep this in mind. Legal action is your best chance to see a positive outcome if you believe a creator has no intention of fulfilling their obligations. This project however does not have creators that could be accused of this. We know they spent our money researching, shooting interviews and taking journeys to key sites and conventions relevant to the project. They spent it on effects, hiring, editing and everything needed to make this movie a reality. We can't accuse them of not fulfilling until after after the process of litigation is over. This really sucks because it means we have to wait for something, much longer than we thought we would, four years longer in fact (although Kickstarter shipping dates are rarely set in stone). We just have to wait for the conclusion of this litigation, then we can and will get excited to see the movie again and sit down and watch it. If at that point they say they won't be releasing it then we can consider legal action but I don't think they would be fighting so hard and so long over something that they didn't believe needed to be seen through to completion.
@John R. Troy thanks for the info and your insights ^_^
Looks like there is finally an update
Basically, it states that they will try to go through a non-binding mediation in April in hopes that both parties don't have to go through a trial.
I hope they can come to terms and this gets resolved.
Sorry but one more thought...
The saddest thing about it right now is that all fan enthusiasm has been sucked out of this project. There's only a few people even annoyed or concerned enough at the delay to post comments here now or demands for their money back, and over 3,500 backed it!
I think rather than anger most fans now just shrug and feel apathy, and either consider it a "write-off", or else just hope maybe in five years at least one of these films get made.
Once all of this is cleared up, all that enthusiasm I remember from 2012 is going to have to be generated from scratch, which makes it harder for the films to be marketed and distributed, etc.
That's the shame of it all...
(Crap, wish I could edit statements)
I think it this case it might be an Interpleader, rather than an Intervention.
Some more thoughts.
Without seeing a schedule none of us really knows what's going on just yet. I'm making assumptions that everything that was scheduled has actually happened. I think the last time we looked there were depositions scheduled and then it got delayed for months with a settlement. I truly wish there were more public updates, as it seems we're left in the dark.
I'm getting a little annoyed with this lack of progress because as Kickstarter backers, we funded one or both projects and we have some rights.
If this continues, the one thing I could think of would be to request the judge an Intervention, which means as a group of Kickstarters, we could become part of the process and (if accepted by the judge) we would get to know what's going on and perhaps force an outcome, although I think we would be limited to just getting our funds back from either of the projects, and some backers would probably need to pay for an attorney to do this. The general process would be here.
What frustrates me is that as backers of one (or both projects in some cases), we seem to be at the mercy of this court process and that locks us from individual recourse. Maybe the threat of an intervention would force the parties to settle (in lieu of losing all the money).
Of course, it would depend if any of us would be willing to pay for an attorney to handle this, and if the judge felt as backers we had a case. The Kickstarter thing could be a precedent we'd want to set--I'm not sure if any other KS has had legal stuff affect it like this.
For those wondering about possible release dates, looking at the court docs published so far, there were depositions done in December, there's supposedly more stuff to come in the spring, but assuming everything is done "on time" (and it rarely is), the trial is likely set for the Summer of 2016. Once that's done, it should be fairly quick. That's also assuming that there are no further delays in the schedule. It also looks like both parties had a confidentiality agreement signed so we may not even see any court documents if they are covered under this.
If I had to guess, I would say a release date between late 2016 and 2017.
Time goes by with no indication of a possible release date, so... can we get a refund?
Any idea if or when this issue will be settled and when Backers will know if this will be fulfilled or refunded?
@Parzival. No it's not a pre-order (and Kickstarter keeps on repeating that point) *BUT* you are correc -- fulfillment is a requirement and if it cannot be done, then it is up to the creators to pay back the backers.
It would be nice to see this moving along but I've started to lose hope on this one.
What a bunch of nonsense Kevin Smith, if you enjoy giving your money away for vapor that is your problem. I'm not a Wal-mart fan but at least there you get what you pay for or you can get your money back. This isn't an investment service, it's a pre-order and a promise for goods to be delivered.
Keep in mind this isn't one of those projects where the creator(s) just disappeared, they are tied up in litigation. Also, a handy rule to consider before investing in anything is to take some form of risk. No. There shouldn't be an option to "get your money back" Kickstarter is not Wal-Mart. An investment always carries an inherent risk of loss. All that said, I still believe we will get our movie.
Hey everyone. This has been a long and tough process. The last few months have been taxing for several reasons. Please understand that at the end of the day all we want to do was make a film. We are committed to making a film for this community. Thank you for your support. We do appreciate it very much.
Michael, you are by no means SOL. send me an email, email@example.com and we will get this sorted out. apologies that you didn't get one. I will get you in touch with the person who shipped them.
At the end of the day the money we gave out to support this project was spent on what we wanted it to be, making a D&D documentary, there was no mismanagement or misuse of funds here, just creative difficulties and a delay. We'll get our movie eventually, we just have to wait, under the Kickstarter terms you have supported the project and the creators are doing their best to get it made, I don't think a refund is warranted.
Guys they can't finish the movie until the court proceedings end, don't blame the creators here. Also those of you asking for refunds should remember that they already shot a lot of the movie and went all over the country gathering footage before they had some of their own try to take their footage and make their own movie, then edited and prepped a lot of that footage etc. A lot of the money was spend on what we gave it to them for, production costs. No-one should be writing this off or asking for refunds until after the court proceedings end as the production crews hands are tied until then. Does it kind of suck having to wait so long and that a more amicable solution couldn't be reached? Yes it certainly does, but if we can be patient we'll get to watch a great movie about something important, all of us and Paizo publishing believed in it and this film still needs our support. I'm behind you guys, especially given your difficulties of late, good luck with resolving the court proceedings let's get this movie made!
I know I am super late here but I never received the items that I was entitled to when I made my pledge way back then. Am I just SOL? My pledge entitled me to:
D&D artist Diesel LaForce will do a poster-sized print of artwork based off the iconic Player’s Handbook cover illustration from 1978. The pen and ink print will feature a full scene inspired by the artwork created by Dave Trampier of the adventurers pillaging a temple. This artwork is a limited edition of 300, signed and numbered by the artist. It is being commissioned exclusively for our Kickstarter premium.
I'm joining the chorus and asking again, we should have an option to get our money back. I opted for a digital copy and I'm going to bet that any digital distribution will be botched, enough is enough.
@Robin - I highly doubt it won't happen looking at the court battle the momentum looks to be in this KS'ers favor. It just takes a long time in the NY Court System to get anything done (something my day job has made me acutely aware of).
I'm sorry all this happened but - I want my money back. This film is never going to happen.
I'm sticking onto this project. Mostly because I already spent the money and am hoping one day to get home and find the dvd/blu-ray... well, probably not in the mailbox my mom will probably ask why it showed up on her doorstep, but still, the reason I wanted the film stands, and I've lost nothing in the wait. In fact, I may get more out of it since I've gotten more and more into rpg's since this project first launched
I think your only option is to refund the backers. This project is a complete loss
I realize that puts me in the heartless, unsupportive minority, but it is the unfortunate truth.
I'm sorry you have legal problems, but I'm writing this whole project off as a loss.
One new doc was posted--I can never do a deep link here because of what Kickstarter does to those links, but the following is a quick summary.
Unless there's some kind of settlement made, this will take about a year to get to trial. Discovery, Depositions, and Questions take place as early at November, up through the end of Winter. If all goes on track, an actual Trial won't begin until around May 2016. So I don't expect this to be resolved until the summer of 2016 at the earliest.
This being said, I would say we should not expect the doc to be released until probably at earliest the Fall of 2016, and depending on what needs to be done, probably not until 2017.