by Sad Cat Software
Imagine an editor where you can tweak any action ever done in the past without having to redo any subsequent steps. That's Ormr.
This project's funding goal was not reached on November 29, 2012.
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Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
Keep going, Ormr crew! Hoping to hear news about your ongoing development sometime in the near future...
@jhansonxi, @Nils: Thanks for sound advice! :) We're indeed converging on this idea - probably at some point after the alpha version is out, likely shortly before the beta is released, we'll start with a pre-ordering program for those who are interested in supporting the project and getting their permanent early copy. This is coming up. :)
@jhasonxi I was thinking about the same thing. Have a pre-order to still be able to raise funds for the project while allowing people to secure their license.
Some projects with failed campaigns have solicited donations via PayPal to keep them going until they can try another campaign later. Just a thought.
@Michel: Yes, we're still going ahead with Ormr. We already had a prototype when the campaign started, and were continuing to work on it ever since - and still are. The release dates may change a little, but it'll get there in the first half of 2013 for sure. We're also planning either another campaign later on or possibly an early sale for those who want to get a license while Ormr is in beta, before the full version is ready, and support us that way.
@Andre: Yes, we were actually thinking the same thing. :) In our minds, this has always been the divide between mass content consumption and content creation. The latter has always been done by a much smaller group of people, and, therefore, appeals to fewer in general, regardless of what the project is. Plus, it's probably a safe bet that Kickstarter is not the primary place where visual and VFX artists congregate. However, our hearts have always been on creating things, and helping others, more talented artists than us, create their own. This is why despite greater potential rewards on the gaming side of things, we want to do Ormr first. And then, as a test, make a game using Ormr to create all the assets. :)
Truly unfortunate that the funding goal was unsuccessful. Please us posted on your plans for development and sale. This product shows a great promise and should be on the market. Had I won that Powerball, you'd be the first on my list of funded products. :-)
Any solution to still support (and buy and use) Ormr?
Its a pity that projects as fundamentally trivial as video games rake in vast figures and burst their goals, whereas a project as technically challenging and practical as Ormr gets so little love. I look forward to helping to test the application and supporting you with a purchasein the future.
Sad Cat, will do, I'm not sure how much help I can be, but I can definitely beta test and report back any problems or suggested changes.
Like I said, for some things this software looks like it's going to be incredibly useful. At this point, I don't need most of the features that Photoshop has, but the basics will be enough, especially with this history feature.
@Legacy Speaker Thomas: Thank you for backing us. :) Regardless of the Kickstarter, if you want to follow the news and help alpha- or beta-test Ormr, please subscribe with corresponding options at our webpage: http://www.getormr.com/contact/…
Meanwhile, we just finished adjustable image-resizing which allows you to go back and adjust how an entire image was resized with all the layers and groups changing on the fly.
@Arthur: We're not sure at the moment. Ideally, we would like at least part of the technology open-source (for example, our cross-platform user interface library), but this is something we'll decide when we get to it. At the moment, our first goal is completing the first Ormr versions first. :)
I'm backing even though it doesn't look likely to succeed at this point. This is exactly the sort of software I'm going to want when I start seriously working on my comic book, I do the same several steps over and over and over again when converting to digital. This would save me so much time.
If you want to reach your funding you need to go to other sites and get your name out there
try deviantart veehd youtube and any big art oriented sites. be sure to include a link to this page.
Also you video for this product is not good at all for representing your product, having watched it the whole first half was showing me other apps. I did not see how they had anything really to do with Ormr. If you are trying to say that Ormr would make it much more simple to make those apps then show us a sample of you making that app with Ormr.
What your video should start out with is your product how it works and listing all the options it has that other programs do not (like photoshop) why the make it better and how simple it is to use them.
Try giving simple examples (like you did with the box) for each one. Also add a more complex sample.
you showed us the really fancy picture at the end but did not show us how you made it with your program.
maybe a time-laps video would be nice.
All in all from what I can see with a quick glance is a pink dragon some games you made and a program that can change the size of a chat bubble.
While I understand what your trying to say, it could be said a lot better with a lot more examples.
How much would it take to make this opensource?
This was the first project I endeavoured to back on Kickstarter and am sad to see I likely won't be able to help make Ormr a reality.
However, I have subscribed for status updates and look forward to seeing the project come to fruition, regardless of Kickstarter.
@Rafael: We have just sent out an update. Took a bit longer to properly write up. :) As to updates, we also like to everyone who is interested at Ormr to subscribe at our website (which also allows you to sign up for alpha/beta tests), just so we're independent of Kickstarter and can being building our own united community around Ormr. Here's the address below if you're interested:
It's really great that you're going to make Ormr anyway!
I really want it.
But will you create an update here or we will have to go to your website from time to time?
@Jared: Got your vote. Thank you. :) To answer your other questions:
- SVG 3D: 3D is a whole huge area that to do properly takes a very large amount of work. At the moment, we're keeping Ormr 2D-only, so if SVG 3D does appear, it'll be one of those long-term goals for us. For now, we need to concentrate on getting 2D version out.
- We don't really have anything to do with Inkscape. Ormr is not based on any other editor - we're building all of the UI and architecture from scratch ourselves. We are using some image-processing libraries, but they are not editors nor are based on them.
- Yes, the odds of Linux are definitely looking up. :) We had way more questions about Linux than we thought we would, so the Linux build will either happen before release (if we have the time) or shortly thereafter, but at the moment, aside from actual functionality, it's become one of the high-priority tasks on our list. :)
- We haven't really gotten to command-line yet. While do plan to add scripting to the app itself, for command line, there are already many solutions out there, so we're not sure if we should be spending our limited resources on that unless there is solid demand for it.
@Andre, @Henrik: Hi guys, no-no, worry not. :) While we obviously won't reach our Kickstarter goal, we're not letting Ormr just whither away, so we'll need your support and participation more than ever. We're about to send out an update later today, so stay tuned. We're building Ormr anyway, since with the kind of feedback and enthusiasm we got from many of you it has become almost a personal quest to finish Ormr and let it take off. It might take us a month or so longer, and the features in v1.0 might change a little bit, but it will happen.
@Andre Czausov I would like to hear something too. Only one update, and 6 days left, something's wrong here...
Been a while since the last update or official comment. Hello? Please don't let such an inspiring project just wither..?
Also, a vote for python here.
What about svg3d support?
Are you basically branching your work off of Inkscape?
Are the odds on linux build looking up?
Have you thought of ways of using's git's version history methods to solve your problems?
Are you planning on creating command line utilities for mass editing?
Thanks for the quick reply, sorry for the late one.
I'm on Ubuntu 64 bit, but if you distribute through Steam, it really shouldn't matter.
On a side note, I see you mentioned scripting support with Lua or Python and I'd just like to put in my vote for Python.
May the funding winds be on your back these next 9 days!
Q: Will Ormr have frame-by-frame animation support (i.e. Animated GIFs)?
A: Probably not at version 1.0. We'd love to, but it's unlikely we'll have enough time to implement this properly. We'd love to, though, after the initial release. :)
Q: Will our actions be "recordable" so that, for example, if I create something, I can give it to someone else, and they can "play" it back from the beginning in order to see how I did it?
A: Likely the answer is the same as above - post version 1.0. This will be eased a bit by the fact that just by looking at each layer's nodes, the person will be able to see a large portion of what you did, though of course not everything. Again, we probably won't have enough time and resources to add this to the first version, as much as we would love to. :)
@Giancarlo: Right now, Ormr is actually 16-bit per channel RGB. We're looking at other options, possibly switching to 32-bit per channel floating-point to allow proper support for HDR images, including OpenEXR. We know that 8 bits just won't do these days, so we're not even considering that. :)
Interesting project, and great workflow concept.
One essential feature I'm not clear if it will be implemented is higher bit depth support: is Ormr only 8 bit, or will it support also 16bit or even better 32bit float?
That alone is a deal breaker for many digital artist pros.
@Rafael: @Rafael: Thanks for the comments and questions. :) We're working both on editing and paiting workflows, and, as we mentioned below, already have brushes and and are working on the pressure sensitivity.
As to Adobe, well, that's really hard, because to get something like this to be truly usable, you have to engineer your application from the ground up with this in mind. For Adobe, that means rewriting an almost 25-year old code base from scratch all while not removing anything their users came to depend on. For a company their size, that's not only a huge managerial gamle, but also a technical one - we've seen code bases that old, and trust us, they're often hacks upon hacks upon hacks.
And even if they do something like this, Photoshop will still cost hundreds of dollars. Ours will be around $30. So there's multiple incenstives to switch to Ormr. And just wait until we get some more advanced functionality in - the things you can with a procedural approach like this are limitless. Though we're not quite there yet. :)
And does something makes you think that Adobe won't do the same thing? :S
Although i'd still pledge and share this project, since i like it all
It really does look good. Actually it looks GRAND!
I hope this goes successful, really.
Although i'm kinda wondering about the drawing and painting part.
Because i not only use the editing part as the major part of my work is "painting".
Oh, I forgot a couple more questions (you can tell I'm really excited about the future of Ormr)
Q: Will Ormr have frame-by-frame animation support (i.e. Animated GIFs)?
Q: Will our actions be "recordable" so that, for example, if I create something, I can give it to someone else, and they can "play" it back from the beginning in order to see how I did it? (I'm thinking of software like Corel Draw and ZBrush)
@Christophe, @Leonard: Thank you guys both for your support and spreading the word about Ormr! :) It's mind-boggling to think that half a thousand people just on Kickstarter believe in us and want Ormr to take off - so we're going to do it one way or another. Stay tuned, we have more plans for the future. :)
@Darrel: Thanks for sharing the answer. :) We've added your Q&A to our FAQ section so more people can see it there, too.
Q: Will Ormr support plugins? [...]
A: While this may not happen by the first version, we're building Ormr from the ground up to be as extensible as possible, so you'll be able to not only add custom filters and effects, but many other menu items and even your own tools that show up right along side built-in tools in the toolbar. We'd love to promise it'll ship with v1.0, but we have to be realistic with our time, and we'd rather do the inital features extremely well than more features but of lower quality.
It's unlikely that we'll support Photoshop plugins for a while, just because to do that, we basically have to replicate their entire API, and that's a gigantic task. However, we will have our own API, and moreover, we're looking to eventually allow artists to create their plugins without knowing any programming or scripting at all.
Q: If I did the $75 pledge, I'm given two copies of Ormr.[...]
A: Yes, you will be able to give this to a friend. We want Ormr to be as well-known as possible, so by all means, please do. :) And we listen to input from anyone - the more, the merrier. :) You guys already have given us some incredible suggestions.
Q: From the screenshots and descriptions, it looks like you guys have at least some kind of prototype done. [...]
Yes, we do have a prototype, and you can see a part of it in the video. :) However, it's not ready yet to be publicly unveiled, even as alpha, since far too many kinds of tools are missing and there's some edge cases that we need to cleaned up and taken care of. Our goal to release it sometime in January so we have about two months of beta-testing afterwards. We'd love to get it out sooner so more people can see the sheer power of this new approach, but at the same time, we have to release something people can actually use reliably, even for a limited set of tasks. We're getting there, we just need a bit more work done. :)
@Josh: Thanks for the kind words! :) Yes, that is what we're looking to do, and we feel we're at the right stage in our experience and knowledge to be able to do it the right way. :)
@Amy: That is indeed one of our big three challenges. :) The simple operations should be fairly easy, however; the hard part would be either advanced ones (content-aware delete, for example, which may come in later version) and especially figuring out *which* functions are the ones that are used most often. We're hoping to sort this out through Alpha/Beta stages, though. Good to hear from another iOS developer - hopefully it'll benefit many, many more who at the moment are simply not aware of the upcoming awesomeness of Ormr. :)
@Tomasz: We've just added a question about plugins and scriping to FAQ, and here's the answer: That's a big one for us. We're building Ormr from the ground up to be as extensible as possible in every way. While we're still not sure whether these will make it into version 1.0, we will definitely have them not very long after that. In Ormr, not only will you be able to create your own effects and filters, you will be able to extend other main menu areas and even create custom tools that show up on the toolbar right next to the built-in ones. For scripting, we're currently consider Lua and/or Python as possible integration languages.
For formats, we're likely to support rasterized SVG at launch, but we'll be working on adding native (i.e. vector) SVG import/export shortly thereafter. Ormr already has mixed raster/vector object support, so we're very much looking forward to exporting it as SVG. We'll see what we can do about Corel Draw and Paint Shop Pro formats - right now they're not support, but depending on which import library we'll be using, these may well be supported by the first release.
As to export for web, which properties were looking for? Dithering, palette color output, and/or something else?
Great product - pleased to be backing this - looks like I've tipped it over the $13k mark :) hope it gets the funding!
I'm trying to get Ormr talked about on Lifehacker, they're always looking to new smart applications to showcase. No promises, but I've made my best to pitch the idea to them.
First of all the following is a question that I messaged you about and I'm posting it here so that others can see your answer:
Q: Will is support pressure sensitivity (i.e. tablets)?
A: Yes, it will. We've already implemented simple brushes, and while we haven't added all parts of actual pressure sensitivity yet, we've structured it from the beginning to store and use those values.
Secondly, here are some other questions:
Q: Will Ormr support plugins? Will it be a proprietary format and/or will we be able to use Photoshop plugins? If so, will there be an SDK released and what would the timeframe of that be?
Q: If I did the $75 pledge, I'm given two copies of Ormr. Does this mean that I can give one copy to a friend and they too will be able to provide input about the features of Ormr or will this be limited to just me since I am the pledger?
Q: From the screenshots and descriptions, it looks like you guys have at least some kind of prototype done. Does this mean that the Alpha version would be available as soon as the pledging period is over? If not, what's the ETA for the Alpha version?
Thanks in advance! I'm really excited to get my hands on this and try it out!
Wow, I'm truly impressed. Looks like Ormr would make image editing an absolute joy, and the UI is just insanely slick! It looks like you guys will do to image editing what sublime has done to code editing!
Hoping you succeed!
@Sad Cat Software
That's good to hear. A single-seat license will probably work best for us as we're currently a small company.
Shades of Live Picture from back in the day (http://www.pixiq.com/article/live-picture).
I reckon your biggest challenge won't be the non-destructive action modifications, but just adding all the useful image editing things that we take for granted with Photoshop. Still, I'm an iOS developer too, so at least our use cases are similar!
What about plugins support and scripting? And I'm interesting in Corel Draw, SGV, Paint Shop Pro file formats support. Export for Web (adjusting file propetites and seeing it's effect before save).
@Jeremy: Excellent idea! :) The problem for us is that posting ourselves about Ormr is often treated as Spam, even if we do it in the most non-spammy way possible, and even if it is useful to the community in question. We'll see if get DeviantART's attention. Alternatively, anyone of you can also help by posting there, since that will probably be received better. We'll see what we can do. :)
Thanks for the questions. :)
- At the moment, we're thinking to just have a single-seat license that covers everything including commercial use. However, if you're looking for a site license, we can add that, too. Let us know what kind of licensing scheme would be idea to you.
- Yes, everything will be savable - and in fact, it already is for the functionality currently in Ormr. We're looking to keep file sizes down, too - we're not saving image snapshots after every frame, so the overall size should be quite manageable. We're even using on-the-fly compression to make file sizes even smaller.
@Christophe: Thank you for raising your bid! We've actually just been featured on Mashable (http://mashable.com/2012/11/10/ormr/…), Creative Pro (http://www.creativepro.com/article/ormr-image-editor-may-make-undoredo-thing-past), and Dobre Programy (Polish, http://www.dobreprogramy.pl/Znow-rewolucja-wsrod-edytorow-grafiki,Aktualnosc,37230.html). We're working to get the word out further. Don't worry, we'll make Ormr a reality soon enough. :)
By the way, Mashable's own video at the top of the link is quite something. Especially compared to our own. :)
@Trent, @Jared: Thank you guys for the kind words of support & encouragement. :) The best thing to know is that this wasn't just something we ran into, but rather a problem that's common to a lot of artists. This feels incredibly inspiring and pushes us forward to make Ormr even better.
Wow, this looks like an amazingly powerful piece of software! I really hope you get funded.
I'm wondering if you could get some support from the DeviantART community -- if just 0.04% of their "over 24 million registered members" gave $5 each, you'd be over your goal :)