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Cubes don't roll so well. This 12-sided die is numbered 1-6 twice. It is rounder, and balanced. It's the iconic d6 evolved -> d(2x6).
6,916 backers pledged $133,495 to help bring this project to life.

Stretch Goals: #1-3 Unlocked

Posted by Matt Fleming (Creator)
25 likes

Dear Team Doublesix,

Thanks for your patience!

Here are the belated Stretch goals.  Colors X and Y will be determined by backer community voting. Colored dice will also be available via add-ons, and a new combo pack tier will be added.

Stretch Goal #1 ($8,000): UNLOCKED! 10 additional X colored dice added to each BULK order.

Stretch Goal #2 ($13,000) UNLOCKED! 2 additional X colored dice added to each NON-BULK order,

Stretch Goal #3 ($18,000): UNLOCKED! One extra dice roll added to all RANDOM ROLLS (original color; 5 total dice rolls, giving an average of 17.5 dice).

Stretch Goal #4 ($23,000): 10 additional Y colored dice added to each BULK order.

Stretch Goal #5 ($28,000): 2 additional Y colored dice added to each NON-BULK order.

Stretch Goal #6 ($33,000): Another extra dice roll added to all RANDOM ROLLS (original color; six total dice rolls, giving an average of 21 dice).

Stretch Goal #7 ($38,000): Free dice bag with Doublesix Logo.

Brendon O'Shea, Michael O, and 23 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Missing avatar

      Erich McNaughton
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm a little concerned about "Secret Stretch Goals" too. That said, as a First Mover, I would love a Secret Stretch Goal please.

      Also, we really need some orange and/or yellow dice!

    2. Jason on

      I did the poll and it was a little odd because the die color and pip color is usually a combination but the poll asked independently. I would like red+black, blue+yellow, or orange+black as those are awesome color combinations.

      Also, what do you mean by "secret stretch goals"? I mean, I want the extra dice and am willing to pay for them, but giving them only to the backers who ask seems like it might be against KS rules (I don't know if it actually is or not). You might want to consider revising the SGs or leaving them as is for everyone and give FMs/EBs a discount on add-ons if you want the spirit of the idea.

    3. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Here is the link to the poll: http://poll.fm/4jbn3

      I will add the link to the next update tomorrow if there are no significant problems with this poll.

    4. Jason Wright on

      Green w black pips

    5. Criswell The Tiny Epic Weatherman on

      I may be the only one who wants orange dice with black pips, or black dice with orange pips. I really doubt anyone else is going to vote that way, but you asked.

    6. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      Only one for me: blue with white pips

    7. Arthur Levesque
      Superbacker
      on

      Definitely need red die with white pips.

    8. Matt Fleming Creator on

      ALL: be sure to at least read the last line below.

      Arthur: thanks for the compliment. Along those lines, I hope to have DDs in bars, and when you order a drink or appetizer, you call out a number and roll the DD, and if it is the same number, you get to keep the DD and your order is free! Then I will list all participating bars on the website, so you will know where to go to roll.

      Matthew: I agree. I think I will make my complicated SG fairness proposal below the "Secret" Stretch Goals, so any FM and EBs that directly request the bonus secret Stretch Goals will get it. Otherwise, everyone will get the original SGs that are listed in the Update.

      Criswell: Thanks for you support. I agree with you, but also realize that some people want to feel like things are fair. So those that don't think things are fair can continue to speak up, and I will make things right for them. Otherwise, I will try to Keep It Simple.

      Shahin: Thanks for clarifying, as well. I appreciate folks like you speaking up.

      Dan: The link should be posted later this evening, as part of a website/blog that I am building. Though today was my day off of my day job, I still had to watch two daughters, get a dentist check up (first time in 3 years!), get a haircut, and have the HVAC guys spend 1.5 hours at my house. When my girls go to bed tonight, I will finish up the poll. But until then...

      EVERYONE: What color dice and pip combinations should I be sure to include in the poll?

    9. Happy Android Ideas on

      Is there a link as to where we can vote?

    10. Missing avatar

      Shahin Yazdani
      Superbacker
      on

      @Matt, thank you for being so open to our opinions and working out the math so make everything more fair per tier. I truly appreciate that. I have backed quite a number of kickstarters and there are some who would not have been anywhere near as accomodating. I do hope that my previous comments were not taken as complaining over the couple dollar difference and of course I am happy to get anything free added on by strech goals. So again thanks for addressing the feeling of unbalance between the strech goals to pledge levels. I am looking forward to using these dice in my miniatures games and seeing how many of my opponents models I "accidentally" knock over with them, lol.

    11. Criswell The Tiny Epic Weatherman on

      The way I see it is that everyone at every tier is getting extra dice. So what if THAT tier gets more dice than mine? My package is going to contain extras I wasn't anticipating or expecting. Einstein said everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. Matt, I thought the 2 extra dice on 12, 2 extra rolls on random, and 10 extra dice on bulks (wrap them together and call it a brick as other projects have done) is as simple and fair as you can get. But if I (and everyone else is getting even more, where is the problem? Just don't put yourself in a financial hole over it. We gave you our money because we stand by your idea. That SHOULD be the bottom line, not that your tier gets more freebies than mine.

    12. Matthew White on

      @Matt I just want to know, before you start making anything final on stretch goals, K.I.S.S. Keep it simple, stupid (I prefer silly, but whatever.). Don't overcomplicate things by trying to keep proper ratios and what-not. Whatever way you decide to do with the stretch goals, just make sure they are simple and easy to understand for people who will not read all these comments. It will help us and you a lot more, especially when it comes to finally having to package and ship everything.

    13. Arthur Levesque
      Superbacker
      on

      I'd just like to add, Matt, that I still think rolling dice to see how many dice you get is one of the most awesome ideas I've seen on KS, and is the first thing I mention when I tell people about this KS. Just saying. So if you do end up adding any higher tiers, make sure at least one of them is random as well.

    14. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Zachary: thanks for clarifying, but I think I got the balanced tone of your first post, which expressed both dismay and gratitude. And your apology is appreciated, but wasn't needed: your original math was correct, as the fairness between FM/EB and RR 1 began to breakdown as we move through the SGs. The new math and plan should remedy that.

      Jason: I experienced you, like Zachary, as simply pointing out a truth and a reasonable frustration, but also expressing appreciation. but thanks for checking back in.

      Most of these complaints are helpful because I am wanting to learn about how to run a successful Kickstarter, so I am learning a lot thanks to all this feedback (lessons like consider posting stretch goals early on, and make sure folks feel fairly treated).

    15. Jason Wright on

      Yes... add-ons please. :)

    16. Justin
      Superbacker
      on

      @Criswell - Unfortunately.....yes.

    17. Jason on

      @Matt I don't want you to think that I am dissatisfied with being in on the FM level or with the campaign in general (or even complaining). I was happy with going in on FM with no stretch goals and that hasn't changed. However, I am contemplating switching my pledge to the RR2. I would rather have more dice than kibitz over a few cents here or there.

      Add-ons would be great too because then I can give you more of my money!

    18. Zach Loveless on

      @Matt Fleming: My apologies for the tone of my previous post. I was misunderstanding the math behind the stretch goals. The breakdown was helpful. You have a good handle on this project. I'll trust your judgement from here on out.

    19. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Brian: well done, and great summary and gist (except for Y colored throughout in SG #5). Like Jason said about my explanation "Holy crap. that was complex."

    20. Missing avatar

      Brian H on

      For clarity Matt is proposing:

      Stretch Goal #2 ($13,000) UNLOCKED! 2 additional X colored dice added to the Standard pledge tier, 3 additional X colored dice added to the Early Bird tier, and 5 additional X colored dice added to the First Movers tier.

      Stretch Goal #5 ($28,000): 2 additional Y colored dice added to the Standard pledge tier, 3 additional X colored dice added to the Early Bird tier, and 6 additional X colored dice added to the First Movers tier.

      Did I get that right Matt?

    21. Criswell The Tiny Epic Weatherman on

      I don't get it. Everybody is getting something for nothing, and people are complaining about receiving freebies?

    22. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Chad: Since we have already surpassed SG #3, I am suggesting adding extra dice to FM and EB starting now (+5 and +3 respectively), and then before RRs get their extra dice roll at SG #6, they will get +11 and +6 total at SG #5.

      I am trying to address the disparity, and plan to continue to do so. Does my plan seem clearer, and more fair? I think it does, but may be missing something.

    23. Dais on

      Oh, I should note that my previous comment was in regards to future goals. One wave of stretch goals isn't really a problem. I just don't like where this pattern will lead over the next five weeks.

    24. Missing avatar

      Brian H on

      Matt, I think you made that as fair as you could and you have the math to back it up. As someone who was able to grab one of the vacated First Movers tiers I throughly approve.

    25. Dais on

      Random roll is getting quite a huge benefit from stretch goals. As it stands that pledge tier gets two stretch goals to the other levels' one each in the same amount of time/money. As a first mover I'm not okay with this pattern continuing for another 38 days. The value and dependability of random roll goes up a great deal when every cycle adds +2 dice AND an additional D6. Remember, you are catering to gamers here -we know all about finding the most reliable and efficient way to get the most from dice rolls.

      Matt, I like that you are considering giving FM and EB pledgers extras in future stretch goals, but I think it would be better for everyone if the disparity between standard and random roll was addressed. Let First Mover and Early Bird be the early savings they were always meant to be, rather than treating us as a limited upper class.

    26. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Adam: thanks for your comment, and I appreciate that side (echoed throughout). Part of my investment, however, will also be in making backers happy, so this is worth it to me. And for every backer openly voicing their concern, there are probably 20 others feeling the same way in silence.

      I will try to shave off costs in other ways (eg. bubble mailers are $1.49 at the post office, but I am sure I can order bulk to cut costs). And I will also mention in the next update: after the first 10,000 dice (minimum order), the per dice production cost goes down from 20 cents (which factored in mold cost) to 7 cents.

      Color break-down is pending. We will have to order a minimum of 1000 of a color so that shouldn't be a problem (additional $80 total). Voting on favorite colors will help us determine what to start with. There will be add-ons, and combo pack tiers added.

    27. Jason Wright on

      Holy Crap Matt. That was complex. But I like it!

    28. Jason Wright on

      Honestly... at the price points I dont feel anyone was shafted and also think that the stretch goals far exceex expectations. But... if the stretch goals were listed at the beginning of the campaign, I know I would have jumped on that $8 RR instead of my $6 first mover. Honestly its only a couple bucks... so no biggie... but still, if Matt could find a more rounded way to do it Id be appreciative. Id also put a limit on those $10 RR tiers and create a new $12 or $15 tier. Itd still be a heck of a deal.

    29. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Justin: you make good points. But I view this as a fun challenge, trying to be as fair as possible, which is also an important value to me (perceived fairness). I also don't want my First Movers and Early Birds, which may be among my most loyal and best backers, to feel screwed.

      So here is one thought (my math may need double checking):

      The first double-digit number is approximate cost per dice within original tiers (ie. pre Stretch Goals), the next number is cost per dice after current Stretch Goal #3, and the last is after Stretch Goal #6. (reference: dice totals are 12/14/16 for FM, EB, and S, and 14/19.5/25 on ave for RR I).

      FIRST MOVERS (FM): $6 50/43/38
      EARLY BIRDS (EB): $8 67/57/50
      STANDARD: $10 83/71/63
      RANDOM ROLL (RR I): $8 57/41/32
      RANDOM ROLL II: $10 71/51/40
      BULK: $25 50/42/36

      At the start of this KS, when everyone present had their choice of one of the limited options, FM dice were 50 cents each, 7 cents less than RR I Dice (57, on average); and EB dice (67 cents) were 10 cents more than RR I Dice.

      So to keep that rough ratio through out all stretch goals (SGs), how about this:

      FIRST MOVERS: $6 (0/+5/+11) gives us per dice (50/35/26) off of RR I by (-7/-6/-6)
      EARLY BIRDS: $8 (0/+3/+6) gives us per dice (67/53/44) off of RR I by (+10/+12/+12)
      RANDOM ROLL (RR I): $8 57/41/32

      FMs will get +5 dice by SG #3 and +11 by SG #6, so the per dice differential off of RR I remains roughly the same (about 7 cents cheaper)

      EBs will get +3 dice by SG #3 and +6 by SG #6, so the per dice differential off of RR I remains about the same (10-12 cents more).

      Assuming my math is accurate, what do all of you FMs, EBs, and RR Is think? It is just an idea at this point.

    30. Adam H (Peak Design Employee) on

      Matt, if I'm honest, I'd rather you don't do further stretch goals unless it adds to your ability to take DoubleSix Dice forward in the way YOU need it to. Backers have backed based on the initial product and rewards, don't go giving away any profits you might make and be able to reinvest. There are ways to add to current pledges, look at Peak Designs use of a la carte ordering on the Capture Camera Clip v2 project as an example, but bear in mind the additional work at fulfilment.

      Most of all, take your time, consider what is best for DoubleSix and don't feel you have to give more for free. (possibly not a popular view, but I feel an important one to voice).

    31. Max on

      The only stretch goal I'm interested in are the colors, cold you go into more detail on the breakdown there. I pledged for the bulk tier with the hopes of getting say 10 dice per color or so, however that broke down. Thanks again.

    32. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      This looks like a warning to all wannabe KickStarter creators. Beware giving backers extra freebies - they will only complain they want more. I was happy with my pledge before the stretch goals, and I remain happy now.

    33. Erika - Ninja Cowgirl of Brimstone
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm one of those that chose a 'First Mover' pledge, and I think that getting sixteen dice for $6 (if current stretch goals are met) is the furthest thing from getting shafted.

      That being said, would it be possible to have stretch goal add-ons that allow you to purchase a full set of dice in colors x, y, z, aa, etc. at your current pledge level price? For examples, a FM pledge putting in another $6 for 12 dice in color y, or a RR pledge getting a roll for whatever number of z colored dice for $8.

      Thanks for keeping in touch with us Matt. It's greatly appreciated.

    34. Justin
      Superbacker
      on

      @Matt - you'll run yourself ragged trying to please everyone. There will always be a few who will whine and cry over not getting something they feel they are entitled to.

      Making changes to things you've already stated will piss off more people than those who are crying over dollar bills. You have over 1,500 backers and only 3 people aren't happy. That's pretty good!!! You're well ahead of the game. If anything maybe another "addition" can please the few stranglers.

    35. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Hey guys, I don't want anyone to feel shafted or gypped, and I did say satisfaction guaranteed, so I will do some more math and try to come up with something that feels fairer.

    36. Missing avatar

      Enchante Chang on

      Why are people complaining about getting more?

      You were happy with getting 12 dice for $6...if you get ANY extra it is a bonus.

      I'm surprised there are this many stretch goals. I don't see any reason why we expect them. It is a privilege to get them, not a right.

    37. Zach Loveless on

      @Matt Fleming: As a first mover, I feel a bit shafted. I feel a stretch goal for all Static & Non-Bulk orders would be a good call. (Jason Switzer made a rather astute observation to this end.) That said, 14 dice for $6 is pretty darn good, especially with them being specialty dice (Before applying yet-to-be-reached stretch goals.)

      As a backer, I'm loving this project. I'm likely to boost my pledge to the Bulk reward tier to feature a recently founded local gaming. Getting at least 60 dice for $25, possibly 70? That's just nuts.

    38. KevinR
      Superbacker
      on

      @Jason -- if you increase your pledge by 67% (from $6 to $10), I certainly hope that you are likely to get more dice.

    39. Arthur Levesque
      Superbacker
      on

      The benefit to grabbing a FIRST MOVERS level on the onset is that you got the best deal AT THE TIME. You always have the option of trading up as more benefits become available. There are some KS projects where I altered my pledge level half a dozen times as new levels and/or stretch goals and/or add-ons became available.

    40. Jason on

      So essentially, by joining as a FIRST MOVER, it looks like only goals #2, #5, and #7 apply (and #7 applies to everyone). For an extra $4, currently, I have a 94.39% chance of getting the same amount of dice or more, likely 4-5 extra dice.

      What's the benefit to staying on the FIRST MOVERS level?

    41. Matthew White on

      @Matt Fleming. If you are willing to take suggestions, I would consider it a much fairer and simpler option to make the random roll stretch goals a +1 die roll to random tiers and +2 dice to static tiers. That way, random roll still becomes a better and better gamble (adding on average 3.5 dice per die roll), but those of us who took the static buy in aren't jipped by the stretch goals. I consider it a much more fair option, and one that people will understand a lot more so than how the stretch goals are now. No matter how you try to portray the stretch goal imbalance, many of us who pledged before the goals were revealed and could have been on the cheaper random roll will feel cheated by this. I know I do, and I think this solves the issue well, while still giving the gamblers their edge.

    42. Timo Honold
      Superbacker
      on

      cool stuff :-)

    43. Jason Wright on

      How about giving the extra dice rolls to all tiers (both 12 and random roll). Probably the fairest way to go about it.

    44. Justin
      Superbacker
      on

      @Jonathan Larkin - Oops...$2 difference. 10 instead of 8 being the one you would have wanted to move to.

      I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!!!

      http://tinyurl.com/3erj8yd

      Good times! :)

    45. Martha S.
      Superbacker
      on

      Freebies are nice and appreciated, but as one of your First Movers, I don't see much here that applies to me. Stretch goals can serve as enhancements, but they can also be incentives. Having additional colors to purchase would cause me to raise my pledge. I'm with Roman, I don't want massive amounts of dice. I want different colors.

    46. Sean on

      If we get colored dice, will the random rolls be able to ask for a dice color option or the ability to get random colored dice?

      Depending on the colors I may want to get random colors or all of my dice in one color

    47. Matt Fleming Creator on

      Roman: I hear you. I will be adding a combo pack once we determine all the varying colors to be added. However, I am unwilling to offer custom orders at this point as I will be having to fulfill probably 2-3000 orders. Way too much work added to do custom: sorry :(

    48. Justin
      Superbacker
      on

      @Jonathan Larkin - You're talking about a $4 difference. Hurt? Really? You know you can change your pledge to the $10 tier at any time?

      How many dice will the bag hold?

      If you hit that 33k I predict a lot of people will jump on the random. If you figure 4 dice are added no matter what plus an average of 21....I'd take that bet!

    49. Kion
      Superbacker
      on

      These look good, BUT: I personally would prefer to be able to select ANY combination of generic colors (i.e. red/blue/green/black) for *initial amount* of dice of my NON-BULK pledge INSTEAD of having additional (X & Y colored) dice added to it.

      The idea is that it would, IMO, be much nicer to have 12 dice of 6 different colors (or let's say 8 or 4 available colors (two of each) of my choice + 4 of original color, etc.) than 12 or original color and only 2 or 4 or X/Y color... I'm basically trying to say that having color options with lesser/original (according to selected pledge) number of dice is MORE important than NUMBER of dice on its own (i.e. *I don't need A LOT of dice, but I'd prefer them in DIFFERRENT COLOR*).

    50. Matt Fleming Creator on

      NON-BULK orders INCLUDE all 12-dice orders AND both Random Rolls.

      Zed: as we get closer to the end, I will calculate add-ons and such.

      Matthew: I will look into funky options.

      Shahin: thanks for your comment. I should have thought this through more from the start, but I didn't think it would do this well. I guess I could try harder to make it even more fair at this point, but since we are dealing with dice and luck, I am OK doubling the reward for the gamblers (which could be different from viewing it as punishing the conservative early backers)