Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
"I think most people who are complaining about a product being 2 months late must be new to Kickstarter and/or crowdfunding in general."
FYI this project is 8 months late.
the understanding is that the timeline says "Shipping the final ordered on kickstarter" is before August 2015.
My assumption is that they'll be two months late assuming that the progress bar is at "SCiO SDK"
@ Keith: Thanks for announcing your success with the the prototype, it helps to show that a few of us actually have good experiences with them, and that the wait will be worthwhile.
@ Neil: Yes - most of the projects that I backed were also a months to over a year late. The rewards were great when they arrived! There is no point getting ulcers over something that you cannot control.
The project creator for a nano drone says his greatest failing was not getting the message across to his backers that they were backing a project and not buying a product.
Having said that, it is about time for CP to update the SCiO progress diagram with a more realistic one, and write a clear Update telling us about the setbacks, improvements, and latest anticipated timelines for the various reward levels.
I think most people who are complaining about a product being 2 months late must be new to Kickstarter and/or crowdfunding in general. Almost all of the projects I have backed here on Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms have been at least several months late. In a perfect world, this may be unacceptable to some, considering you are paying for a product and there are certain expectations that go with that...however in reality, you are more so an investor of a new, undeveloped prototype. There are always going to be unexpected hiccups and delays with the design and production of a totally new product. Some creators are better at estimating their timelines than others.
In the end, be patient, this is definitely not a scam, it is quite easy for most people to quickly figure out whether a particular project is a scam or not..and in most cases Kickstarter themselves will figure it out before backers even can.
If you consider the breadth and complexity of what SCiO is, then take a step back and be patient, they are not making a t-shirt here.
I know patience is tough, but I have been lucky enough to have been playing with the SCiO for the last 3 months and it does work. I have been able to measure a 13% concentration solution to within +/- 0.2%, and this is with a prototype unit. The precision of the unit has been very good, but the accuracy still needs some work. Luckily accuracy can be adjusted for in the software. I know they are working out a lot of bugs for the production units which takes time. The worst thing CP could do is release a product that does not work or work well. I have to say that I am thrilled with what CP have done and I am thrilled with what we can do with this amazing device in the future.
I have been trying to explain to people where this product is in the development phase and what it can do, and the best analogy that I can come up would be a musical instrument. CP is creating a new musical instrument, but people must realize that this new instrument has no sheet music or chords created. This is where everyone will need to step up and create those notes, chords and music that make this unit sing. I just want people to realize that they are not going to open a box and start measuring chemical properties. It is going to take a lot of work to build the database of spectra, but once we do we will be able to do some amazing things.
I don't think its a scam. Just wanted to voice out that the timeline is not moving fast enough to accomplish shipment of August.
I wish people would get some sense. This clearly isn't a scam. Its a delayed product yes but people are slowly receiving theirs. They've had meet ups around the world - people have physically held them in their hands and had face to face conversations with the people who created the product. We get updates every month. What would you rather, the right product but late or a device that might not perform in the way it is supposed to? I want the right product! Guys there are still people who 100% support you
I hope 2 months looks like another year
It's disappointing that it's running late, but if people are saying they got something that actually works, it's far from a scam. Read this to see what scammers look like - https://redd.it/3ft0b5
Looking at the progress timeline looks to be two months late.
So August is about to go out the door,and nothing yet...
Hi Lynda - I wonder how they got your email address? what domain was it from?
The MyDX device looks interesting, working on completely different technology to SCiO. The website is very disappointing, no hard information and no prices or delivery schedule.
I think it will work out quite expensive as it needs a different module for different uses.
I had a mail this morning from a company callef myDX. Junk so went to unsubscribe, I usually look to see who it really comes from - it came up Scio backers .
Just letting you know....
Any way we can get some insight into when Dev Kits will get to us?
It seems like you're shipping, but maybe in small batches?
I'm eager to get mine in Vancouver ...
Some direct news on where I'm at in the order chain would be nice to know ...
look up my name ... see ... Oh? Just 2471 people before me .. sigh :(
You know ... better than the information void you're sorta leaving us in right now :)
Thanks, I can appreciate this isn't the easiest thing to do so I look forward to meeting my scio.
@ Marco :
Ask CP to reload the collection, I accidentally deleted a few whilst testing the sample clean up, and they reloaded the complete set.
Alternatively, and more fun, create a couple of new collections.
For an identification model: May I suggest popping to the local supermarket for packets of dry chopped herbs. They are cheap, and hopefully contain what the label says. Buy the same herbs from different batches and different suppliers to get a good sample range.
For a quantification model: cheese does make an easy study, and you can get a wide range from the shops. You can enter the manufacturers values for fat and protein (this is expedient for learning but not the RIGHT way, it needs lab analysis really). You soon see which manufacturer has his process under control and you learn how outliers affect the results.
Or lets wait...
Let's all file a theft/ fraud complaint with the local District Attorney. Then lets get the US Consumer Advocate to shut down the Kickstarter Fraud factory. This is one of five Kickstarter projects that I pledged good money that doesn't deliver the goods or sends you a non-functional quack device.
I have my researcher kit. Thanks!
Are there no models to try it with? The Hard Cheese collection says it has cheeses scanned at CP, but it is empty. We've been seeing cheese and pill demos for a long time; where are they?
It is nice to have the hardware, but if I have to do a lot of scans to see if it is possible to get good results, it's going to be a long slog just to try things out. How about providing the models you have so that we can get off to a really fast start? They do give good results, don't they?
They should have an update with the amount they have produced and how many they have sent out. It seems like they have sent son out but no one is reporting if they got it or not.
This is not a Good Karma
Cheating the customers, When did you guys promised to deliver and when are you delivering ?.
I do not believe until I do not see the product .
I will not recommend any of my friends to buy this product as "Consumer Physics, Inc" have a pathetic customer care.
By Not delivering the product you are cheating the customers.
Kickstarter should sue "Consumer Physics, Inc" and pay back the funded guys ten times.
You are not providing something out of the world, By the time you guys deliver there will be alternative chines products similar to this where the value for my money.
If you guys have some shame ship it in a month else this will be called as worst kickstarter project #worstkickstarterproject
Check this out !!!
I think I'll get mine when Apple releases a holographic TV
Has anyone gotten theirs yet because it sounds like they are doing batch sending. Not sending one by one as they pass Qc.
I I dont know if you sent my package, but I moved can you send the package to my new address.
When do you plan to start shipping ?
I probably will have to find out by testing
Mmmm I see my new version of potassium has a valency of four! Whoops K2O is correct.
This maybe better discussed in the developer forum, please say.
So I guess you are making pot silicate for horticulture, and need potassium and silica and total solids for QC.
Once in solution KO2 will cease to exist, but maybe an equivalence standard ?
You will be able to build a sample library, and add back the analysis values to each SCiO scan. After building up a decent set you can first create an analysis model then scan new samples in Test mode, and see how close the results are to normal analysis.
Remember that normal testing will have errors also!
You will need to be very careful not to get splashes on SCiO's windows. Pot silicate and glass are not good friends.
It sounds like fun!
I would like to give some words of encouragement. Your development and deployment approach is admirable. Making sure we all have a quality product should be important to everyone here. It's sad that so many people are so impatient. Sure, you're way past your initial estimate. But people, we are getting in on the ground floor of something so amazing that the full potential of the technology can barely be imagined. Don't be like Ronald Wayne who sold his Apple stock for $800 because he didn't see eye to eye with Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. He's be sitting on $80 billion now. I like to think that I bought one share of stock in a company that has real vision. The first step in a path to the Star Trek tricorder! Kickstarter is not Amazon people - you're helping companies get their start and it has some risks and unknowns. If you're going to get so upset hearing about the problems, then stick to the boring retail segment.
Yes basically the end product is k2o+sio3+h2o
Do you mean the product contains (K2O + nSiO2) + H2O? I don't have a high hope. However, it's worth to try once we have the device.
I make a product called potassium silicate, I wanted to use this device to do some Qc. So every time we get testing they always report as k2o and sio3.
I must ask (but you need not reply), why are you interested in K2O? It is a rather aggressive chemical, artificial fertilisers perhaps?
Hemmawit, It rather depends on the state and what it is with. Potassium oxide is a very reactive chemical, I seem to remember it's reaction to water is rather violent. So wear protective gear for that one! It is also a rather simple chemical, so may not exhibit any strong peaks or troughs in NIR.
Does it have the capability of giving concentration of a substance like K2O for instance?
No problem, there are lots of us to help each other!
Lol Does it scare you that I backed at the Dev level? :P
Hi Poz, of course some science helps, but it is not totally essential. In the end Developers will scan stuff and add the attributes necessary to build the collection libraries, and the models will either give us good, bad or indifferent identification and quantification - we will learn where the boundaries are. Later, scans by users will be integrated (with strict QC rules), that is the bit that excites me .... but we must learn to walk before entering the Olympics.
@ Glenn & Gian Pablo :
Thanks greatly for your comments!
Wow, turns out I have very little chemistry background education. Thanks for clearing that up guys!
Let me add: it is the vibration spectrum of chemical bonds (especially with hydrogen such asO-H,N-H,S-H, C-H, ...) and the unique combination of those bonds within a molecule that NIR devices measure. Not in terms of elements. Also, like Roger mentioned, the spectrum can be influenced by the phase (liquid, solid, etc.). This is indeed an advantage because NIR can measure both the chemical and the physical state of sample. Hope that helps.
Note: in case I am pounced on because the elemental ratios of C and H and O are different in my example. There are many organic chemicals with the same formula but still different NIR spectra.
If only it was so simple!
The NIR spectral analysis depends on recognising the molecular signature, rather than the elements in the molecules. So formic acid CH2O2 and glucose C6H12O6 have unique signatures, even though containing the same elements.
The state is also important. Solid salt, and salt dissolved in water give different spectra (because the sodium and chlorine atoms are disassociated in solution).
To make it even more entertaining, some molecules have more pronounced spectra than others, so alcohol content may be estimated sub 1%, but salt not.
Strong signals may mask weak one to some degree.
BUT swap molecules for elements and your analysis is roughly on track!
Of course there are limitations, some materials and mixtures will give spectra that are too similar to be unravelled, at least by this version. Mixtures with irregular distributions will be hard to quantify etc.
So I have a theoretical question...
If every element from the periodic table was scanned. Then couldn't SCiO tell us the make up of each element with in 1%? That is what I assumed the specs meant.
If so, then couldn't a huge table be made with theoretical values of each element for each object (leafs, food, pills, ect..) that we have around us. With the input of the scan and context, it would list a few possibility of what the object you scanned could be and then certain property's about that object that can be inferred from its elemental make up (fat content, moisture, ect..).
I picture that this is how tri-corders work and don't fully expect this functionality from SCiO but my exceptions are not far from it. Essentially that if the data existed and after a few iterations of the technology (better sensitivity and ability to scan metals), I do expect this to be possible.
Am I way off base?
Hey, I thought I'd chime in.
I was at the SF meetup. The presentation from the CP folks went to great pains to explain what SCIO is and isn't, and the crucial role of machine learning & database. It isn't a magical machine that tells you the content of everything: instead, it needs to be trained against samples. For example, if you want to measure the moisture content of a thing, you need to show it samples of various levels of moisture content.
I brought my own set of samples, and we were able to build in 30 minutes a simple app that reliably identified them. For me this potential application is absolutely worth the price.
I am certain that this is NOT a scam. I saw near-production prototypes and software doing things that could not be faked or handwaved. Like I said, I brought my own samples for an application that was new to the team, and it performed really well.
So even though it is not a scam, it is a highly ambitious project with many moving parts, of which the device is only part. Getting this to market is going to be challenging, but I think the team is most of the way there.
It compares peaks to a known standard and then tells you if those peaks match your sample. It is standard for all spectrometers. I'm sure a tri-corder would need a library database also.
I'm a developer backer impatiently waiting for my unit. Meeting the folks in SF, we had free hand time to play with and try lots of things with any of the devices they brought. We were able to build db entries from scratch that, even from a small sample pool worked.
Bad communication? Yep. They have to improve, but that's a staff slot they didn't seem to budget for.
Scam? I honestly don't think so and I've been hit by two Kickstarter scams.
However... The campaign and our imagination worked together to see this as a Star Trek device that would tell us the exact contents of any sample. It is nothing like that. It scans the near IR spectrogram of a sample, and then sees if that "hash" matches anything in their known db. Very useful! But not at all a tricoder.
"Damian moved on to plans for User collected scans to add to the database. This will start at the end of this year, or early 2016 - most likely with medication samples where errors are less likely. Users will be invited to scan every medication they can lay their hands on, adding the classification info in a comment format"
Crap. This is what I feared. Instead of a tool that "senses and scans the environment" it's just comparing images... it sees Tylenol? It's just running the image against its database and showing the ingredients that are stored online rather than a star trek spectrometer.
Another thing, I'm expecting a piece of plastic with a cell phone camera stitched in connected to a cloud... which I have to give it to your marketing team... really really really great marketing and hype. This team might work for politicians
SCiO’s optical head includes a molecular sensor, a temperature sensor and the illumination source. When one of the illumination source component batches were tested, we found their performance to be outside of our specified range
What happens then?
We ordered a second batch - and it arrived a few weeks ago. The latest batch was tested and passed our QA, and so ramping up continued.
Wait what....? Doesn't that mean that's just really bad consistency? ... ice decided I'm giving mine to a teacher.. I'll let them be disappointed with it, at least I'll feel good about my philanthropy. Seriously kick starter sucks, it's not even just you guys... I haven't once received a project that wasn't utter shi..poop.
did early beta adopter kits go out yet