"We’ll give you a weekly production update going forward". Oh really? Fucking lies. Just check the dates between any 2 most recent updates. It's not weekly at all, and we're left in the dark 99% of the time.
@John Staniland - Very first paragraph:
"will now launch in June, manufacturer Playjam said."
So yeah, Playjam talked ;p
If they had shipped the backers the old molds, we would be hearing from these very same people that they have been ripped off because they did not get the new molds. This is not a store...
Has someone been talking to the press???
I am a backer and am willing to wait... and am looking forward to when I revive it...
...but want I really would like is a link to a maintained list of the games/software that will be supported when the product is released.
I am not interested in social media sites with all the related 'comments' just the data (and potentially with a link to the game developers website) and any other related info such as, e.g. cost per game...
Do I ask too much (or does it already exist)...?
There is only one good thing to come from the delay and retail releases, a fully operational stick, retailers are not going to release payment if they receive garbage units.
I would gladly pay for a dev unit, even without the dev software etc, just to have the prototype while waiting for the more polished version that everyone backed in the first place.
Seeing as you now are shipping it by sea freight which is cheaper than by air, can we - international buyers - expect some money back from our shipping costs?
"You don't "improve" your quality only toward TWO WEEKS before your shipping date. Think, and understand, people felt pissed because all this is never mention, until the very last minute."
We get it. In their mad rush to focus on building the thing, getting to the GDC, and doing other such things, Gamestick did not take the time to update everyone when they should have. In short, they screwed up.
Seriously, now what?
Should they have kept it a secret even longer? Perhaps waited until they were shipping to tell everyone? Maybe they should just stop sending updates all together? It could be a late summer surprise for everyone! (Don't you just love surprises? Surprise!)
The plain and simple fact is that they've told us now. Now we know and can react as responsible adults. What does being a responsible adult look like? Well, I'm not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain that I don't always get it right myself. But it probably looks like someone who can express themselves and their disappointments while keeping in mind the challenges faced and the feelings felt by the parties on the other side.
I would be very impressed if I could see more examples of how to behave like an adult, and fewer examples of how to act in a non-constructive manner. I'm not saying that everyone has to keep their feelings to themselves, only that we can express them in a mature manner that doesn't involve in-fighting and vitriol.
As it says next to my POST button here, "Be respectful and considerate." So I shall try to do. :-)
@Jonathan , hi you grown up people. You don't "improve" your quality only toward TWO WEEKS before your shipping date. Think, and understand, people felt pissed because all this is never mention, until the very last minute. If everything is being transparent and handled properly, I'm sure most people will be happy to wait for your so-called "better quality" product.
Changing mold has NOTHING TO DO with better quality. Put quality aside, they are now telling you "HEY, I dont care, but I'm going to maximise and make huge MASS PRODUCT to fulfill all for once including PRE-ORDER" and you probably get your final product AFTER (since we're getting it via sea-freight).
To the people who keep saying to use the molds they have...as they stated, they are improving the quality of the GameStick, in more ways than one. Thus, so we get the better quality product, we wait. Would you rather consumers buying GameStick at GameStop or the like get the product at close to the same time as you, or would you rather them get a better product. I would rather have the better product. Y'all grow up and quit your whining.
@Leugim - No, it wouldn't BR them. But it would hurt. A lot. I would gladly wait another 2 weeks if that money was put into a better product.
My glass is half full I guess.
@Justin: With your business experience, do you believe that shipping by air 6000 units would bankrupt the company? By doing that, I belive 90% of the criticism would vanish.
But as I said before, if I get mine in July, instead of a crying baby I will be a happy one :)
@Leugim - Budgets change. Nothing was set in stone or promised to anyone. You cannot expect to get MORE in the same time frame. The product will be late anyway so complaining about air versus freighter is nothing more then crying over 2 weeks.
Why on Earth would you expect the "shipping budget" to have been fixed when the rest of it clearly was not? You are physically getting more product/greater experience then when this project first started. Do you think all that was free? Do you think you have some Godly right to getting more for free? That money had to come from somewhere thus....budgets change.
It really isn't that complicated. Anyone with 2 seconds of business experience would be able to figure this out.
@Justin :The shipment by plane was planned from the begin to us, backers. So there was a budget for that. This option is just for save expenses and increase profit!
And if I don't have a problem with delays in the production process (I'll be happy if it arrive in July!), I cry all over when knowing that my gamesitck will travel in economic class with all the thousands of units that are going to retail, instead of traveling in first class and arrive a couple of weeks earlier.
Yes most tech projects are going to suffer from schedule slippage.. not a problem and, especially when coupled with Kickstarter, a given. And in light that they're making design changes made on developer feedback probably a good thing. But bundling all of the latest information into one dump of 'good news for us/bad news for you/even more bad news for you' didn't help the situation.
The timing/way that they announced the change in date (well really change in 'guesstimated' dates) was severely mishandled. I was wondering on the shipping months ago as I know flying lithium batteries is not something you're going to be doing in bulk unless you're getting a volume discount from a carrier to offset the insurance. Obviously the increase in order shipping size tipped the balance in this respect.
So informing the people that put their money where the mouth was - the Kickstarter community - in a way that it looks like they are being punished for not being a big corporation smacks of either mid-level douche baggery or just a really bad PR decision (which is what I really think is going on here).
And bad PR is not something a company needs when they're trying to grow a brand new ecosystem for their product. For the 'cheerleaders' that are trying to defuse things - give it up. You're not going to make anyone that feels like they've gotten screwed that they didn't. If anything you're going to make things worse in the long run, as we all know that the most vocal part of a community is the part that is Not Happy. The more you keep rattling their cage the longer they're going to howl, and the more comments that prospective customers can Google that make Gamestick look a bait & switch (which is already becoming a concern here on Kickstarter).
The company needs to forget the weekly update stuff and get ahead of this situation before it kills off the project before it's actually gotten off the ground.
Delays can happens, that is true. This i a new companie making a new product and i bet they are learning a lot of things as they keep moving, so i guess this is no problem for me at least. the problem here for me is having the same as everyone else.
For me kickstarter is where you no just help a great idea, but also an idea you believe it will work. Not everyone makes it in kickstarter for sure, not everyone is willing to support a project. That is why a all of the people that make a pledge should have a better treatment. If they happen to send us the kits at the same time than the big companies, well i will just say i would not be fair.
@Leugim - First of all, it's not just a "few bucks" in shipping costs. Secondly, is a couple weeks in shipping change really worth crying over?
Suffer? Really? Drama much?
@Sean Carter: Can you explain then what is the relationship between the increase in quality and the downgrading in the shipping method? Why should we suffer a delay just because they plan to sell thousands of gamesticks and save a few bucks on shipping.
The biggest problem with this update is that there is no apology for the delay to all the kickstarters who are eagerly waiting for gamestick to ship. We could have still understood the rationale behind the delay if it would have come with an apology for the delay. Looks like gamestick is taking it s backers for granted and i do see a hint of arrogance in that attitude.
I just want my game stick! D": lol. But for real tho, I'm kinda disappointed that they said April, but now they are saying June. I'm moving around June, and i don't want to struggle with all the post office junk:/
Keep in mind they need to change the molds to support the modifications to the units they mention in the update. If you want these new features you'd have to wait anyway for new silicon molds to be made.
Take a deep breath, everyone, and understand that delays like this are a way of life on Kickstarter, especially when projects blow past their goals and get a lot of press, like this one did. If you're uncomfortable with delays then don't back your project and wait for the units to hit retail. Otherwise, appreciate that the people running the business are doing what's best for you and them, and be happy knowing that any delays mean an ultimately better product for you when it does arrive.
@Leugim: I agree completely. Downgrading the shipping metod is only adding (more) insult to injury. I'm amazed it's allowed according to Kickstarter rules.
At the very least they should ship by plane the 6000 units for the backers. After all, why should we be affected by success of it? And please, don't try to offer vouchers to spend in store to compensate for the disappointment! I just want my gamestick.
Why could you not make the backer's units using the original molds, that way we would have our's and then the retail units could be made using the new molds. It all just does not make any sense. It is stuff like this that will give a brand a bad name. Wait till the main stream journalist and bloggers get wind of this.
I can't see if this has been asked before due to the sheer volume of hatred, however...
You are now using a different means to ship these units. Due to the higher load, I suspect you may be shipping all UK units to a distribution centre over here, and then sending out to the backers. Can you confirm if this is true? As doing so would be great as it would mean no customs charge for us UK backers.
@Cyclops, get bent! I've been on topic the entire time.
What part of this project being more now then it was from the begining do you not understand?
April was an estimate, not a fact. You all need to get over it.
The end result is you are all going sit there, deal with it then in June get your new toy and enjoy it.
Given I'm still waiting on my Pebble watch almost a full year after kicking for one (should have gone black instead of orange!), with numerous dates missed and now no ETA at all, and the same with Auditorium Duet, this doesn't surprise me. Even the Une Bobine gave up the ghost after a few charges.
I'll not be kickstarting any more if this is the way thing are gonna keep going.
@cyclops we're probably going to receive the Ouya orders before GameStick at this pace, retailers will keep piling on the orders, but do a net90 on payment for them. What if Wal-Mart asks for a few? Would they order a million units? Would they bundle something like this with their tvs?
Just not happy with this delay based on johnny come lately retail chain orders.
@everyone that is very unhappy, I'm with you on this, first thing that came to mind "bollocks".
@GameStick don't give the people that launched you into space the cold shoulder, send us the dev units, don't use our pledges and pre-orders to invest in new tooling, that's just unprofessional. You should have kept us in the loop.
@stephen bush, that is a very sensible idea, use the existing molds to create the campaign orders, let the retail outlets gets their higher tooling requirements in june.
OR utilize the tooling for the dev units to get the backers their units first. Doesn't matter to me if a usb port is there or not.
I'm was hoping to drive the kids nuts for a couple months before they could get their own.
Hey Justin and Ricky, why don't the two of you take your love fest elsewhere. No one really cares about your level of education and accomplishments. We are here to discuss Gamestick. Seriously, get back on track or go tickle each other on Facebook. Please.
While the delay is unfortunate, and very poorly announced, quality sometimes demands extra time. They should however honor us for supporting them and ship all Kickstarter orders airfreight instead of sea freight.
If you weren't prepared for a delay, then you're being neive. If you aren't mad that they took this long to let us know about the delays, you're being too forgiving. There was a whole MONTH after this thing ended where they told us squat. They knew then or had an inkling that this would happen. I'm not upset about the delay, I'm upset that they hid it from us.
Something else I haven't seen anyone comment on is the fact that this statement:
Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
Was issues at the start of the project. Since then the product has become much more. You canNOT expect to get more in the same amount of time. That is just flat out unrealistic. The fact that they are ONLY two months out shows some damn good team work/management skill mixed with a little miracle magic on their part.
@Ricky - You're not the only one with masters. How about I one up you with actual experience? Being someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
Masters in DB design and networking? Is that supposed to be a joke? You're educated on useless crap that will EXPIRE. You use SAP? Is that supposed to impress me? I've been flown to Germany to help develop SAP R3 on the manufacturing side and did so while you were most likely in diapers. I have over three decades in the computer industry as well as product design, development and manufacturing. Not only do we have three manufacturing plants cross the globe, we also sell globally. Managing SAP from sandbox to development to production from config to ABAP to BASIS is a mere fraction of my job. I do that as background process in the back of my mind compared to everything else.
Your attempt to impress was a joke at best.
"QUOTE the exact phrase that says they will produce "higher quality units""
I don't have to quote. I KNOW! That's the difference between you and me. You ASSume what you know whereas I have actual real work experience.
Moving from basic silicon molds to higher end tooling = higher quality especially when it comes to QC.
"I've been in manufacturing businesses before"
That is a flat out lie. There is no way in hell that anyone could have ever taken a TOUR in a manufacturing and not know what I just explained above. So if you are in the manufacturing business then you are horrible at your own job. Please, tell us who you consult under so we can all stay the hell away from you/them.
"I'm a SAP Material Management consultant as mentioned"
Oh I see, so you're a monkey that touches the lower .001% of what SAP handles and you simply talk about it.
That's as far as I got. I couldn't read the rest of your nonsense.
Total KickStarter orders (not very accurate):
Mark 2 prototypes: 90
Gold GameStick bundles: 8
@Anthony Ball - I agree with you since they are so far behind as they are stating now, they should up the specs to something more with what's available now, specially prepare for the future games that will be more demanding than most of the ones seen today, or at list a special batch of game sticks for kick starters with quad core for bad management and taking so long to give these news!
This is part of the process, and I understand that. I feel the exact same way @ra66itz does below.
The only thing that I'd add, if somebody at PlayJam is reading this, is that it would be nice to learn more about the actual processes you are going into. I imagine with larger investors/partners you perhaps are in a situation where you need/want to keep certain details under wraps, but just the same it'd be great to see more prototype photos, photos of factories, boards, etc. More in depth looks at the processes that have gone into creating the interfaces, menus, etc. Basically more "stuff" then you'd see with a normal commercial product.
Just thinking about this...if you're still receiving feedback, would it not be better to continue to use the silicon molds so you're not stuck with a huge investment in a mold with potential problems?
Yeah, so I will get my GameStick in July! Yeahhh!!!! Can't wait! Ahhhhh! Going crazy! It is like buying a GameBoy Pocket today. :) Obsolete technology...
with every project i back i have in mind that i get nothing in return because people fail in producing what they wanted to produce. i guess people still don't get that this is a small scale venture capital site. where you can loose money or get a great product in return to your investment. i'm supriesed that you can produce such a product in such a short period of time at all. so waiting a few months is nothing. someone commented that he planned to take the gamestick on a vacation and is now pissed that this won't happen... kickstarter is not a shop.
Shame about the news, but I can live with it, it's not as if Kickstarter is like placing an order on Amazon, I'd be way more concerned if they were silent about anything. I'd be willing to bet that they let us know about the delays as soon as they could give us something definite, after all, just imagine the fallout if they said "Hey, we're running late, no idea how much, we'll let you know later" ;)
Wow. All this vitriol for a toy. I also like my toys a lot, but you need to ask yourselves if it's worth it?
@Gamestick - Just keep powering on toward delivery. Do keep us in the loop as best as you can, but don't let all of this get to you.
@Scott S. - I think this is the most clearly stated response. Not much more needs to be said. The one exception is that the Ouya received even more vitriol. The question asked by the gaming media was, "Is the Ouya a scam?" Now that there's hardware out there, everyone has calmed down and no one remembers that anything was ever wrong.
@Anthony - I'm not following what you're upset about. I've been developing on an MK808 stick which has slightly higher specs than the Gamestick. It's been available since before this Kickstarter began. If all you want is raw hardware, go to Amazon and pick up the stick of your choice. Personally, I'm looking for a complete *console* experience.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I remain an excited Gamestick backer!
So where does this leave us? Will we receive our product befire its released on mass sale? Please don't disappoint. ..
This is insane... You killed the excitement game stick guys.. I promised my 4 year old for this marvel as a gift to her once she goes to next class? You guys dissapointed me and many more I guess. I will work with amex to get a charge back on my card . you guys misled the backers!
P.S. .....Piss off Jasper Smith....douche
Dear PlayJam, I am writing you today to express my disappointment in the handling of monies that WE gave you as Kickstarter backers. This project would not even be possible for you to realize if it wasn't for our funding. These 5,000 or so orders SHOULD be manufactured and shipped before ANY other big orders that have come up recently. So instead you decide to Piss in our faces and lump all orders together, this is a terrible business plan. We as backers should try and sell our "Early Bird " Gamesticks for a premium price, pocket the extra cash and buy a non bug filled Gamestick at GameStop
Found another piece of evidence on their Facebook, at the VERY TOP of their page in the ABOUT.
"GameStick is the world's most portable TV games console ever created. It has been funded by 5,691 backers on kickstarter on February 1st, 2013 and is set to launch in April 2013".
So there, at least 3 evidences (stated on their update, timeline and Facebook) pointed out that shows they planned to ship / launch on April 2013. So screw you dicks trying to make excuses for PlayJam, this is fact right here. Just because they receive orders from ELSEWHERE, does NOT mean we should be affected by it. Our orders were set in stone and ready to go right from the start ever since the campaign ended, but their progress and management just shows how little they did. I mean, seriously no working unit to show at GDC but only a 3rd party controller? That's pathetic.
On the phone with Amex seeing if I can do a charge back. Really don't care about a founders tag and if its that amazing can always get one at GameStop.
Is GameStop shipping them out to everybody ? Will that be announced in may update?
@afoi, good job pointing that out, I forgot about that timeline thing. I agree, you PlayJam backers are just making excuses for their poor management and mistakes. If they've already stated on their update that they planned to deliver it at the end of April AND also stated that on the timeline, then all of this was ONLY for the Kickstarter batches, and should NOT be influenced or impacted by orders that came from ELSEWHERE.
And as someone else mentioned, they didn't even have a working dev unit to show at GDC. They had to use a 3rd party controller, which shows just how behind they were and how poor their management was. FACT.
@Scott S, yes but they delivered on TIME. If GameStick had given a more accurate estimated delivery date, or had communicated well with us backers about this earlier, I wouldn't be pissed about it. Speaking of communication, this is just a side note but if you had read the comments that other people posted (whether it's here or on Facebook), you'll know that many were upset by PlayJam, due to how shitty they treated us Kickstarter backers. We had little updates ever since the end of the campaign (2 months ago), and even if we did get updates, they were mostly put up on Facebook instead of here. No point being a Kickstarter backer then, right? Hell, even their games announcement were put up on Facebook instead of here.
Also, according to your analysis, you stated that they've probably already decided on the tooling and the schedule etc. They just haven't announced it to us in a timely fashion. That's exactly my point, they could've told us earlier instead of this late in the process. That's poor management.
Lastly, even though the money we used for pledge isn't the same as buying the stock, but I would argue that in fact it is, if not more than that. Projects on Kickstarter require funding. Funding requires backers, i.e investors. Without US, the project will fail and there would be nothing of it. But once it succeeds, everything kicks off from there and the momentum follows (as PlayJam is experiencing now). That's why this makes us even more important than anyone else, that's why our pledge money matters and actually does hold some form of privilege as stock owners. That's the truth, because we MADE it happen.
Furthermore, any project owner knows that they need the FEEDBACK from its backers, about everything. Whether it's a design decision or whatever, it's all directly related to us and OUR decisions. Kickstarter isn't just about funding the developer, it's also about the giving back to the backers and thanking them for their support. It's also about having good communications between backers and developers, not bullshit crap like this.