by DoubleBear Productions
@Mikhael Okies so, they are considering post-DLC, as long as it's decently quality/quantity and they have the funds. That seems counter to what Brian mentioned. Not pointing fingers, just highlighting what I've been informed.
@Justin I'm not saying that they can't do things better and more cost effectively in pre- rather than post-, my initial point was that all of the stretch goals seem to be good suggestions for what could be released as DLC, if/when they see profit off the core game.
My point originally and now is. I don't know enough about the company to even start to speculate if they'll pull off a quality execution of what appears to be a quality proposal for a game. I my personal experience, I've been ripped off by goods that promise everything from reputable people (e.g. NWN from Bioware. Not bad, just not worth IMHO what I paid in pre-order). On the flip side, some games played and liked so much that I've not only purchased all the DLC for myself, but I've even go as far as buy the full game and half the DLC for a friend and later the game of the year edition (Core + all DLC) for another friend.
Yes the stretch goals are an incentive and would be good to have as part of the core game. But if they pull off the core game (plus the stretches they make) well to the point I like the game enough to invest more. I could quiet happily spend more money on the other stretch goals if and when they get to release them as DLC.
Just personally, I cannot justify to myself investing more than I have pledged already, solely on the extra content that they hope to include on the stretch goals alone, I need playable content.
Finally, as you've probably guess, yes I have based all my comments based off personal opinion and the brief messages posted @me here. I did not research their opinions of DLC. And as such, I apologise for my previous comment, as now it seems a little harsh in light of a more informed view of their post release plans.
@Paul also they've mentioned that they're able to get more production value out of the same man hours/money investment if they're able to commit those resources pre rather than post release. (This is true of all game development AFAIK) so while doing quality DLC later is on the table the simple fact is they'll be able to offer *more* if they have the resources in advance, and as an extra incentive to backers here on kickstarter they'll be adding all of that expanded content for free.
All in all it's a pretty stand up way to do things.
@Paul they are against pre-order DLC and horse armor type DLC. They are definitely in favor of post-release content. It's been mentioned in multiple interviews and look at the final stretch goal.
@ Brian That's fair enough if they don't want to do DLC that's their choice. I'll just sit here agreeing to disagree with that being a good business strategy. To me with what you've said that they said it sound like they're actually saying:
"We had a ideas on how to expand the game, but because you refused to give us you're money before we actually produced anything, you can't have them"
Which does not sound like good PR or sense to me.
Personally, I'd be willing to spend double again what I've pledge on DLC, if they can convince me with the base game.
@Paul, they have already said there opinions on DLC's there won't be any, they'd rather have stretch goals so everyone get's the same things for the game
I agree with Alex. Placing the stretch goals on the main page would probably be a very good thing. (At the very least, a notice about stretch goals, and linking to this update) My 2 cents. :)
I think putting on the front page that each stretch goal hit adds new members to the team would help with getting more backers.
I'd say that they could do the rest of the stretch goals as DLC. Once the core game is released I'm more inclined to spend more money on it if it's a fun game rather than invest a lot initial on a wild card. The proposal is good but the implementation if flawed I'd hate to be wasting my money.
Even if it doesn't reach the stretch goals, they could always do a new kickstarter for an "expansion pack", It would mean they could keep the crew together.
It *could* reach 300k. It's currently trending at 250-260k.
Shame it probably wont reach 300k. City environment is always the most fun, and challenging in zombie games. If the 30, and 50 dollar tiers were a bit more rewarding we would have it.
Good luck guys, I hope you get heaps more funding because this game looks brilliant. :)
Kicktraq projects about 270k. Most projects see a funding spike in the last couple of days.
Super awesome! But I would be more interested in development Vlogs! Can you do that too?
I'd really love to see everything implemented... :[
Do you think that after the game releases, if it sells enough copies that perhaps some of these stretch goals may be implemented in future updates?
Must get more money to give more money
What about Linux support?
Upped. May be ambitious, but I'm holding out for the 330 reward :D
Take more money
Upped my pledge... I want the 210 goal to happen :)
I want all of these. ALL OF THEM.
Oh hey! Dogs as allies in a stretch? Guess I'll be moseying out of my comfortable $15 shelter... into something that has the design documentation. Wow there sure are a lot of us in $15.
Well all those sound really nice. I'll bump my goal up to 30$. But I'm already backing like 15 projects, so I'm stretching myself here. :P
To add on. I can understand how you might have gotten confused though as Brian does elaborate on what they wanted to do with the dogs. But never says they have changed their mind and decided to include them.
@Nameless That forum post you linked was started due to a quote ("We’ve talked about possibly adding dogs as allies, but as it stands, they are going to have to be a stretch goal, since they’re a bit out of scope") from this article at rock, paper, shotgun. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/06/just-survive-dead-state-interview/
I accept your apology. I understand getting excited for the game and wishing it could just have absolutely everything from day one. But remember even AAA blockbuster games with budgets in the tens of millions end up releasing additional content. There can always be more maps, new characters, weapons etc.
We still need a better Pledge Goal?
@Nameless We said we WANTED to do dogs, but they were a feature that would probably not make it in because we don't have enough time to do them with our current staff. They require new models, animations, AI, design balance. We did say they would be a lot of fun if we got them in, but we can't do them with just our current staff.
So how much money do we have to throw your way to get multiplayer added? ^_^
@Waelen @Gene You may be right and i am spoiled from other projects that asked less to do much more.
@Mikhael Blackthorne Before you post something read the forums. http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2734.0.html Brian answeared like they were going to implement anyways. And no i am not familiar with game development. Sorry, if i offended you with my previous post and caused this negative attitude.
Why would you think dogs were in? They only a few days ago mentioned at rpgcodex that dogs were an early idea they had to cut. http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php… I am guessing you are very unfamiliar with game development. Notice most of those stretch rewards involve hiring on new people? Unless you will be negotiating those contracts yourself acting like you know the "true" amount Doublebear needs to add features to their own game is rather insane.
People need to keep some perspective, after fees and costs $30k is $20k, $20k is $14k, and most of what these stretch goals is about is bringing in extra manpower and buying development time.
I think backers who are underestimating the costs of development have been spoiled by Kickstarters that did the same. There are developers that grossly underestimated costs and they are at the greatest risk of failure. Brian on the other hand has been in the business, so I'll trust his estimates over newcomers. Plus costs for established studios like Fargos would also be lower.
Unlike most other developers here on K/S, DoubleBear mentioned the specialists they want to hire for the surplus money, and more people means more content. So I can't understand your hostility.
In other words exploitation of backers who expect a complete game.
I believed that most of these goals were already part of the game. Except that the amount of money you ask even for the first goal is enormous when there are only 12 days left, most goals dont deserve the money they need. 30K for weapons? 30K for animals and why so high at 330K ? there are not enough cities and you need one that costs 40k? there is no military base,county fair and mall already in the game and you need a stretch goal? So, make a list of what EXISTS in game. Or maybe these goals are a way to make money that you didnt get because of bad pledge tiers?
Wish i could pledge more than 15$ but i simply can't afford to. :(
@Kilrathi, well, these projects are finished. And people tend to increase their pledges at the end of campaign in order to reach more stretch goals. But I agree that mid-tiers can be more attractive. For example, I'd like to receive in-game banner for my shelter instead of a forum badge.
Also, horses! And maybe... zombie horses! With zombie riders! Supported by zombie helicopter :P! Just kidding :) Congrats on getting full funding!
Any thoughts on how to make the mid-tiers more attractive? There are still a disproprtionate number of people (75%) at the lowest tier, as opposed to similar games like Xenonauts (65%). Tempting those people increase their pledge is an easy source of income - get 1/3 of them to bump by $10 and that's another $13,000 right there - easier than bringing in new people since it doesn't require publicity, etc.. If the $30-50 tiers were more interesting, I do think you'd have more people willing to pledge at those points. I'm not sure what would make people increase their pledges but there must be something, since the "low tier percentage" is notably lower on a lot of other projects, meaning those people were convinced to bump. I love the stretch goals, so anything that can be done to interest people would be great!
Aww, cats! Screw people, cats will be my allies! 390K for Cats Pack, anyone :)?
Heck yeah! I can't wait for this to come out. Congratulations!
well done all, well done :)
Awesome, pledge doubled :)
Well deserved, congrats!
Not sure If I'll be able to up the amount of money on my v3 voucher card...thingy, but if I can I'll definitely double the amount that I've already pleged.
$210k is about the best one...the only other decent one is at 300k. The others seem a bit...'small'.
I'm sure they 'stack'.
Very nice. Think I've pledged about as much as I can, but I hope you make all of those, but I particularly hope you make it up to 210K.
@gabriel621621 Yes, they stack.
I'm happy! Really looking forward to this game. :)
Hum, do those stretch goals stack ? Suppose you get 300k, do we get the city but not the 240K's new attack moves and shooting range ?