by Planetary Annihilation Inc
Refer to Update 40 to see why I was right and you all were wrong. Pleasure schooling you, boys.
icewasp wins, and schools us on proper latin, double KO.
Also everyone screws up Latin... it should be Pacis Machina and Legio Machinae if they want those English translations to be correct.
You can choose to associate them all you want, they aren't necessarily associated... I have no trouble seeing what you mean but they haven't even released a sketch of the symbol yet so your basing your entire argument off of whether they used the word clutch or perch... either way its not going to seem like the Nazi symbol unless they use the highly stylized bird that the Nazis did and have the planet within the wreath as the swastika was represented in the Nazi symbols. I doubt that they would choose to do this, and they would probably design the eagle such that it would be reminiscent of the more realistic Roman symbol, and the planet in such a way as to avoid any comparison to the Nazi symbol. It would be very hard to mistake anything for the symbol the Nazis used, and I doubt anything would really evoke that. Even if they make a symbol that seems evil, for having a planet appearing to be grabbed by the bird, it would not necessarily evoke the Nazis as it would likely not be done in the same style. Either way it would be obvious to the player that this faction was meant to represent the Roman Empire because they are all to be named after Roman things, and if it isn't meant to represent the Nazis then who cares whether it bears some slight similarity to their symbol. It isn't as if the robots are going to have swastikas all over them...
Yes, you do. You're just being obstinate. We've seen that they didn't research this early draft of the lore thoroughly due to the incorrect use of Latin. You've failed to show a Roman-era eagle clutching a sphere or circle (if they'd said "perching", this wouldn't be an issue). I've admitted that it might be cryptomnesia and it might be pure, unfortunate coincidence. Why can't you just admit that MAYBE some writer with a Hollywood-level grasp on history inadvertently called up the image of the Third Reich's eagle after learning of the Roman's use of the symbol of an eagle?
And then you state that NOBODY else could bear this view. Since you seem to have trouble seeing it: http://i.imgur.com/0cu4vrH.jpg
nobody else sees this association...
A sphere, when depicted on a banner, will be a circle. And clutching implies the eagle is not perching, as in your golden, globe-perching eagle. Their description was pretty specific. 99.9% sure they looked up the symbol of the roman empire, saw it was an eagle and thought "yeah, an eagle clutching a planet would look awesome." It does look awesome, it just has an unfortunate association. This is likely a case of cryptomnesia.
I realize that isn't a roman eagle, but why are you making such a distinction between clutching a bar and clutching a circle... plus, the one for this is clutching a planet, which is technically a sphere, so it isn't the same as the Nazi one...
Also the Nazi eagle isn't holding a planet...
I'm not being defensive, their Latin is also wrong, so things obviously need changing, I'm just pointing out that you might be a little quick to equate a symbol to the Nazis. I agree it would be better if it were placed above a banner and set up in a manner more similar to the Roman empire, but that does not mean that their newly created symbol is necessarily anything but a modification of the Roman one...
Sigh... Do a Google search for "Roman Eagle". Point me to the one holding a planet. Now change "Roman" to "Nazi". I agree they are going for a Rome-inspired army, but it is hard to imagine the eagle they described as being anything but the Nazi one. The Roman eagle, like the American one, is a perched eagle, not one carrying something.
The Russian one also doesn't work, because they state a world is clutched in its "talons". Plural. The Russian eagle has its legs separated, not together.
Why are you all so defensive of something that is likely just an oversight? They specifically state that the lore is subject to change!
I immediately thought of Rome when I heard that the symbol was an eagle... you know that the Nazis used that symbol because they thought they were imitating Rome right... and if it were the US symbol it would have been a bald eagle, if it were Russia it would have been a double headed eagle, so Rome is the only sensible answer, when combined with all the Latin names I'm not sure how Nazis could even come to mind... also it even says at the end that it is based on Rome, so the symbol is obviously based on the Roman eagle.
The Marine Corps logo is an eagle perched on the world, not holding it in its hands. I can agree the Russian one would work, but until we see their concept art, we won't know. But really, there is ONE recent, historical eagle holding a circle image that everyone knows. 99% of people reading the description imagined the symbol of the Third Reich, hence my comment.
As for the question "is this the evil faction?"... Do you think there will be "good" factions? These are robot legions attempting to re-mold existence into their image, willing to hurl giant asteroids to destroy whole planets. I got the impression they would all be devoid of morality. Certainly none of the lore presented here shows any feelings of loss for non-functioning comrades or pity for non-conforming robots. And since they are robots that can self-replicate, there's really no reason for them to feel any twinge of morality.
They've given away the whole game in this update, actually. The looming threat is the "precursors" or "progenitors" or whatever they're called. These are the humans that built the robots originally, gone off to live peacefully millennia ago following their apocalyptic robot wars. The robots were thought to all have been rendered inoperative, but some event has corrupted their data cores, overriding the programming that had disabled them (possibly an errant transmission from the now-distant humans). The robots will fight amongst themselves to establish superiority, and once one is victorious, they will spread across the universe, eventually destroying or subjugating their unprepared human creators.
Dominus will be awesome :)
Dominus if the Legion Machina sounds awesome.
Great to get a peek into the lore, I'm a bit if a fiend for this stuff!
When I read this I came to think about that some commanders could have been pilot controlled in the beginning (like in SupCom for example) but that those pilots now of course are since long dead, often with their skeletons still in the pilot compartment.
The close connection between the pilot and the commander (which is needed to make the commander efficient) has made the commander being able to anticipate what its pilot would do to the extent that it now continues its previous pilots' work as if it was its own thoughts. Keeping the ideals of its long dead pilot like a faithful dog (think the Futurama episode Jurassic Bark).
Call it maximus and be done with it haha. Lovely update and a great read to be honest! Can't wait to play the beta finally :)
Not that it matters much for your purpose but I think that Pax Machina (Machine of Peace) and Legonis Machina (Legion of the Machine) are not properly translated. My very sketchy Latin knowledge tells me that Pax Machina means Machine Peace (as opposed to the, I believe correct, Machina Pacis) and Legonis Machina firstly misspells Legio and even corrected means Machine of the Legion (as opposed to Legio Machinae, which I think is more faithful to what you actually want to name it). To all Latinists out there, please correct me. ;-)
Eagle holding the world is also the US Marine Corps official emblem:
"The eagle often symbolizes strength, courage, farsightedness and immortality. It is considered to be the king of the air and the messenger of the highest Gods."
Furthering the conversation re: historical usage of the eagle... I would have thought that the Roman empire would have sprung immediately to mind. Look at the leader names: all latin based. And the faction names: Imperium, Legionis, First Empire. Seems pretty obvious. :)
It would be way cooler if the symbol was the world clutched in the talons of a raptor.
Not the bird, the dinosaur.
Is this faction the bad guys?
Since their thinking is "With the title of Emperor, (name) rules the faction with an iron fist."
Also, I just wanted to add, the backstory of this game is that it is a bunch of reactivated robots fighting for reasons they don't know across a burned out galaxy, with no humans to be found? That is so absurdly cool that I don't even know how to describe it.
You realize that an eagle holding something has been used by a ridiculous number of nations throughout history, from the Russian Empire to modern America, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Russian_Empire.svg
To be honest, when it said the line about the eagle holding a world, I was quicker to imagine a massive bird holding a ball that happened to be a planet in one talon, like in the Russian Empire symbol above.
Personally I would never draw the comparison of an eagle holding a planet to a Nazi flag. It looks more like people are finding any vague and obscure reason to be offended.
Oh this shape looks vaguely similar in shape to a shape used by bad people therefore this shape is bad. Lets ban squares.
Digging the backstory guys. One grammar-nazi nitpick:
"He analyzed and responded to them all in the span of a nano second as he took I the scene before him" should probably be "...took in the scene...".
You realize an eagle holding a circle is a Nazi symbol, right? An undeniably cool symbol, but perhaps in poor taste, given that Nazis are pretty much the scum of the Earth.
Plenty of alternative violent cultures/leaders to borrow from: Spartans, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, William the Conqueror, etc.