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Thanks again for the opportunity you have given us of being a part of this project!
Tabby, have you considered the option of working with Breakthrough Lsten from Breakthrough Initiative of Yuri Milner or maybe with public project SETI@home in Berkeley? The point is to process the change in luminosity with the help of their algorithms and try to identify some kind of regular dependence, the drop down from normal distributions of values for natural processes. For any artificial object, even under construction or collapsing, they have to attend. Yeah, what about "metallicness" of this star? I mean, that's what: https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/abs/2017/07/aa30761-17/aa30761-17.html. Can there even be formed of large solid objects?
@Robo Durden interesting thoughts! Yes, I believe that measurements indicate the dip is complex in shape. I urge you to post on https://www.reddit.com/r/KIC8462852/ for a wider audience!
@Tabby, Hey, the "Elsie" dip www.wherestheflux.com/single-post/2017/05/30/Dip-update-5n is very interesting :-)
Either your error bars are totally wrong or there is a nearly periodic dimming on top of the approx. 5 day dipping !!!
1. the main object (causing the 5 day dip) is either as large as the star itself or only crossing it's edge, because otherwise there should be a plateau at 0.98% while the object is traversing the star ?
2. the additional dipping can not be a moon of the object because it would have to orbit the object in 1-2 hours and the the dipping event would be sinusoidal and not a approx. 1 day event in which the magnitude rises by 0.01% within 1-2 hours.
We should note, that this 1 day periodicity hints a system error here on earth !
If not and if your error calculation is correct, it is really cool to start imagining what kind of object could create such observable periodic dipping events of just a few hours. It must be big but also must be super light to move that fast.
And if that phenomenon only happend with the dip it is bound to the main object, so orbiting it ?
I guess, the 5 days width of the main dip and the absolute dimming of the magnitude should yield a relation of the the objects-mass , star-orbit and object-velocity. This might already confirm if the main object can be a normal planet, etc.
All this would be a great popular lecture on astro physics: how much one can learn from simply measuring one value over time !
Roland, the little physicist :-)
Tabby's Star is dipping everyone!
Hi Tabetha. Your update today was very interesting. I also enjoyed your candid writing style. Look forward to more in the future.
News about KIC 8462852 in a German scientific journal:
...they think the star is flickering "from itself" when switching between two different states, as the object seams to be near a critical level between those states.
Sorry for my "unscientific style" for I'm only a interested stargazer no scientist.
@Oliver we are working on it!
Hi, any news about the digital poster? would be a nice Christmas gift :^)
@Todd I regret that there are plans in the near future to be in Memphis.
Plans for December include Santa Barbara, CA. Dec 11-14 including a Public lecture. Details TBD soon. Later in the month Massachusetts (South Shore) and Quebec (north-west of Montreal). Ill repeat & update points of interaction in next Newsletter.
Are you going to be in or around Memphis, TN. any time?
Another kickstarter that people might be interested in is "Project Blue". Running until Dec. 21, they're trying to raise funds for a telescope to photograph any exoplanets in the Alpha Centauri system:
So after all there is a clear multi-year reduction in the flux or not?
Just to say I recived my T-shirt here in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil!
@creator just received my t-shirt, Happy, thanks! Greetings from Hong Kong
Here I would like to develop the idea of the possibility of the existence of natural objects, which under certain conditions can be observed as artifacts of extraterrestrial civilizations. I propose next to call them Pseudo-Dysonian Objects (PDO).
As a model consider a young star system to the formation of planets, consisting of the central star and gas-dust protoplanetary disk. Now assume that the protoplanetary disk is abnormally rich in complex hydrocarbons, able to form long polymer chains. Why? While this question is set aside.
Now, dust particles in the disk are covered by a layer of hydrocarbons, forming long polymer chains, which in areas of high concentration interlock with each other. Under the action of corpuscular light and heat radiation of the stars on the inner edge of the protoplanetary disk is their polymerization and sintering the longest film of dust hydrocarbon material. The term "film" here means that the thickness of the object is extremely small compared to other dimensions. In fact, the material is soft and its thickness is considerable, but the polymerization is terminated as soon as the rays of the star are significantly attenuated the previously formed layers. Thus formed PDO can have significant dimensions and has the properties of the solar sail. Under the influence of light radiation of stars it is oriented with the plane perpendicular to the radiation flux, but can rotate around the axis perpendicular to the plane. Its maximum dimensions in the General case determined by the strength of the material to rupture at a given temperature and mechanical stresses from the combined action of light pressure (the magnitude of the second order of smallness) and the centrifugal forces during the rotation.
The formation of PDO possible in a fairly narrow area. Somewhat closer to the star will start the softening of the polymers and then evaporation of hydrocarbons a little further – the temperature is insufficient for polymerization. In addition, this region should not be planetesimals by gravitational perturbations which PDO can stick together in clumps, forming planetesimals same. Interestingly, in this period of great inner (closest to the star) of the surface of PDO may occur synthesis of a large number of complex organic molecules.
In the future, PDO, although their reflectivity and small – the surface is fairly dark due to inclusions of dust – moving under pressure of the luminous flux from the star as the solar sail, gradually moving away from the star, with their orbits in the General case can be non-Keplerian, and are the natural analogues of Dyson Dots*.
In the formation of large planets from a protoplanetary disk, the inner space of the star system would soon be "purged" them from the PDO – and accumulated on the surface of the PDO complex organics can be a material for further development on the surface of planets simplest biological forms.
On remote orbits at low temperatures, the PDO can persist as long as the nucleus of the comet, although the material is gradually degraded under the action of galactic radiation, and the large PDO, especially rapidly rotating around the axis perpendicular to the plane, over time, disintegrate into fragments. Also under the action of even a weak gravitational interaction, they can concentrate in large clusters.
Interesting possible the observed pattern. PDO can close the disk stars, and distant from it – is quite noticeable, and should be watched as a potential exoplanets by the transit method (but not by the method of radial velocities!), getting thus in a list of unconfirmed exoplanets.
PDO in young stellar systems close to the star orbits are significantly heated, and accordingly, not only to block the disk of the star in the optical range, but emit in the infrared part of the spectrum as the classic elements of a hypothetical Dyson sphere. However, this introduces a contradiction: the young age of the star system does not fit well with the hypothesis of a highly developed civilization, which leads to even less plausible the hypothesis of a large sailing fleet of the aliens – the less likely that dust rich protoplanetary disk is not the most suitable place for solar sails, as it contributes to their rapid deterioration and destruction.
Cold PDO on remote orbits (the more large heterogeneous clusters), as noted above, even more able to block seeing the light from stars, but it is almost never emit in the infrared range, because their temperature is low. As far as is known, a similar pattern is observed in Tabby (WTF) star.
Remains unresolved the question posed earlier about the presence of a large number of complex hydrocarbons in the young protoplanetary disk. About Tabby star no such data. In young stellar systems, this phenomenon can probably be detected by spectral analysis.
Most likely, on the outskirts of the Solar system objects, similar to the PDO, no – otherwise it would have if the observations were periodically noted the overlap of their stars. So the probability of this phenomenon seems rare, but not zero.
I would like to further consider this possibility in relation to the Tabby star.
Sorry for quality of translation.
Here's another thought, about ekzoplanetoy objects, somewhere else on the level of feeling. Many technical devices have natural counterparts, this is based on the bionics, for example. And are there any natural objects like Dyson Dots? For example, there is a protoplanetary disk (as in EPIC 204278916), and it is saturated with heavy hydrocarbons. Under the effect of radiation from the star they polymerized and "baked" in a flat film (opaque due to the inclusion of dust particles) on a notional inner surface of the disk (closer to the star). But do not stick together in clumps under the influence of gravity, because uniformly loaded on the surface pressure of the luminous flux and taut as a natural solar sails. Is this complete nonsense? Or can we simulate?
Tabetha, please let us know well in advance when additional funds are needed to extend the monitoring program or if resources are needed for data reduction and analysis. Best regards, Fred
Hello. I'm hoping some of you super smart people could help. I have (I think) identified a precise pattern in the intervals of objects occulting Boyajian's Star. Given I went 4 decimal places, it seems unlikely to be coincidental (see work below):
Here are the Kepler numbers for the isolated triple dips:
Starting on day 1537:
Peak of Dip 1 happened at 1537.8924; Peak of Dip 2 happened at 1540.3853; Peak of Dip 3 happened at 1542.8782 The duration between Dip 1 and 2 is exactly 2.4929 days The duration between Dip 2 and 3 is exactly 2.4929 days
Starting on day 1204:
Peak of Dip 1 happened at 1204.2125; Peak of Dip 2 happened at 1205.8881; Peak of Dip 3 happened at 1207.5637 The duration between Dip 1 and 2 is exactly 1.6756 days The duration between Dip 2 and 3 is exactly 1.6756 days
(dip2 - dip1) = (dip3 - dip2)
See image of above two triple dips here: http://imgur.com/a/pGo8y
It would be great to have serious attention from professionals to look at and confirm this. For those willing to help, here is the file source: http://www.wherestheflux.com/public.
Here is some more information:
In general, the observation of the transit of something big and easy, not like exoplanets already known before (since 2004).
Tabetha, do You have the opportunity to explore the data further monitoring of this star (1SWASP-J161732.90+242119.0 in Hercules) if it were carried out? May be its brightness, too, is gradually changing?
This is a typical natural phenomenon or typical engineering activities?
In any case, it's interesting!
@John Walker Im optimistic that this will not be an issue :)
Just wondering if I can upgrade my pledge?
Hi, Tabetha. Hope all is well.
Just checked the Supporters list. So, it was the LCOGT who donated the 10,000 Dollares at that critical moment in the campaign that accelerated the path to success. Clever. Gotta spend to earn sometimes. ;)
You gave me a little chuckle today. In your last Update you requested that your backers not to share their data before general public release. Shhh... Kinda skeptical on that one.
Anyway all the best.
Thank you Tabetha Boyajian
@alison: here is the link https://www.reddit.com/r/KIC8462852/
Can someone, please link the sub-reddit so I can find and join it please
Wow, thanks everyone for your time and effort in the sub-reddit!
New data analysis from the Kepler mission shows KIC 8462852 is fading:
I checked the funder's list and found out that while i pledged $50, my name appears (spelled correctly:)) on the $25 pledgers.
I think I know how it happend as initially I pledged $25 but after your last minute call I doubled my pledge to $50 so maybe the system did not update this doubling.
Anyhow it would be nice if you could move me to the list of $50 pledgers.
P.S.- I look forward to seeing some (hopefully) interesting results of the continued observation project, Keep up the great work !
Dr. Lihu Kolton
@Keith Henson: What an interesting exercise! We could only wonder what such a light sail might be used to do. To answer your question: "If this did happen, is there a way to tell the difference between an F type and an artificially warmed up cooler type?" An optical spectrum of the star (which we have) tells us the star's atmospheric properties, and hence its classification as an F type star. Light shades couldn't change that, and would only dim this overall output.
One of your fans here.
Decades ago Eric Drexler of Nanotech fame and I figured out how to change the spectral type a star. It involved hanging a hemisphere of light sails over the north and south of a star with just enough space along the ecliptic to illuminate the planets. Now why aliens would *want* to change the spectral type of their star is anyone's guess, but they could. For that matter, we could if we wanted.
If this did happen, is there a way to tell the difference between an F type and an artificially warmed up cooler type?
If the edge of one of the hemispheres is a bit uneven and rotating, i.e, partly in orbit, from our vantage we could be seeing the edge of it drifting over our line of sight to the star.
Another idea is that we are staring into a giant alien version of a James Webb type space telescope. That design radiates heat out of the plane of the local ecliptic.
If there are aliens out there, and they go the speed up route humans could . . .
Then the distance to other stars may just be too daunting for them to come and visit.
People here may be interested in this kickstarter, seeking to restore an old observatory.
@Mark Chatinsky - just checked and records show you completed the survey already so no worries!
@Mark Chatinsky you should have received an email about the survey with a link to it. It should also be visible as a notification in your kickstarter profile (click on the top right of the webpage)
Where is the link to the survey?
Major or minor update?
@ Dmitry Novoseltsev: Expect an update early next week with details on that!
When we know the first news about new observations?
@robo I see that you're always giving lessons to Tabetha and her team, from the beginning, being quite pessimistic and haughty. And now that they succeeded, you're still criticizing! And more, now you're advertizing for your own project ! Thank God I'm not a colleague of yours, I wouldn't bear :-)
@creator I agree that the very last part of the campaign seemed harsh, but you can still be proud of it. The most important part is coming ! Good luck, and keep up the good work !
Your work will lead to a wonderful discovery.
Sorry the contribution was small but fortunately there were enough backers to put you over the top.
@creator, Yes, i am still proud to have backed your campaign.
@all, now my campaign is online: www.kickstarter.com/projects/687112352/project-angerdine-nationwide-anger-management
@Robo Thanks again for your suggestions. this is our first campaign, we are learning a lot.
@Sebastian, well the movies "Contact" and "Interstellar" aren't really about data, aren't they ? The inspiring would not have been the "what" but could have been the
But don't let us get angry on this :-) I simply don't feel happy when something is achieved only via brute force.
And before i wrote about my own new campaign, i had to speak about how this campaign has been handled. Kickstarter is not really about squeezing, it is about inspiring..
the Roland and www.kickstarter.com/projects/687112352/894424564…
@Robo Durden, how should they be able to bring any additional inspiration during the pledgig phase?
I don't expect them to come with anything new before we start to hear about their arrangements for looking at the star and then later when we start to hear about their collected data. :-)
To be honest, i am happy that this campaign is over. There was no inspiration along the road, only squeezing and squeezing and more squeezing those that already made their contribution. And in the end this "act of force" became the big news that finally poured in the new backers :-/
It is nice that we succeeded but we should not really be too proud of the success.
I did not double my $10. But even so i felt tempted to cancel my pledge i stayed because the reasons why i joined still stand :-)
So good luck to the creators !
and @all, my own campaign should be online by the weekend. Would be happy if you join with only $1 - No squeezing to double your pledge, but lots of inspiration along the road, i promise:
no more Orlando massacres - nationwide anger management - www.AngerDine.com - First rule: you have to rejoice in those NOT like you :-)