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Kingdom of Loathing's Official Standalone Tabletop Game
2,340 backers pledged $142,002 to help bring this project to life.

Graydon Hangs up One Hat For Now

Posted by Evertide Games (Creator)

Don't worry, I'll keep this brief. Due to the demands of, well, life, I need to take a step back from Evertide. Getting my game out into reality has been one of the coolest experiences of my life. And I am really happy for the people who are playing it and enjoying it, and all of the great friends I have met through this process.  The KoL slogan "came for the game, stayed for the community" is so true. 

You guys can still shoot me rules or gameplay questions, or share whatever you like, or just say hi. But for a while I'll just be one of the designers on the game, and not the company's outward face or point of contact for customer service or logistical matters. You can still email, and it will still be seen by a real person, but no need to cc me anymore. Take care and good gaming.


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    1. mrfatso ~ Defender of The Goat on

      Like what kai has said, if they had been transparent about that, I dont mind forking out more money because, shipping was too little, i understand that and i believe that most of us know that, it's not like for most of us, this is the first time we are purchasing things from oversea and that we assumed that ya, 15 bucks might be enough

      We get that shipping might not be enough or that it could be eating more into the funds that they had expected.. on hindsight though, the email about us international peeks being in a hard to deliver place should have sound alarms for us that something is wrong, but i guess most of us just attributed it to their first time dealing with international customers so they have no idea what to do, how to do it and that they are just chugging along and that's the only problem.

      Logistic wise, it is a headache and a costy one at that. I dont pity them for having to deal with that esp since they have started a business and that is something that all business have to deal with and learn from if they are considering international customers.


      Anyway, andrea, could you point out the update where they did mentioned that they were having troubles/difficulty in their process? Cos i am pretty sure i missed that.
      Thus far, from my memories, it was just, ya... stuff happened.... vague words about delay but o, guys in USA? your stuff are coming ... vague stuff ..

    2. Kaiser Kailer on

      "If you really think they "took your money and ran", consider this: If you were to take someone else's money "and run", would you stick around for two years, sending out updates, explaining the reasons behind the delay, and finally when you would realize you would need to lay off staff and close offices, would you even work to fulfill shipments?"

      Well, without the "people giving him even more money to fulfill the rewards" that's exactly what Erik Chevalier did on the Doom that came to Atlantic City KS and that was nothing but a fraud.

      But I'm not saying this was a fraud. It was just handled insultingly towards the international backers. Sure, $15 may have been cheap for sending a boardgame from the US, but they didn't have to do that. Just put all the SGs and other stuff for the internationals on the ship to the UK with all those f***ing Amazon games and 15 bucks would be totally fine in relation to all of the US not paying any shipping at all and still all receiving their stuff. That's what really bugs me. This planned betrayal of the internationals simply because it's harder for us to sue them.

      The fair way would have been to tell everybody that they need to pay additional funds for shipping (and thereby maybe having every international backer paying less than they need to now).

      Plus, as I already said, this update by Graydon is just mockingly insulting, saying he is so happy to have gotten his game out....

    3. Justin van der Merwe on

      I'm in the UK and I opted to pay for shipping. I received most of my copy yesterday; I'm a Y2K supporter and still missing the play mat and stretch goals (presumably, I haven't gone through the box yet) which are shipping separately from the states, I have the tracking link. I'm really excited to play it this weekend too. The quality on a quick look through the box is superb, despite the delays I'm still very happy with the product and wish them all the best in the future. Hopefully they can pull the company back from the hole they are in, but I think this is unlikely.

    4. Andreas Trottmann on

      July 19, I got the e-mail with the famous options a), b) and c) (just like all the other international backers, I guess). I answered and asked about the price of option b)

      July 20, I got a reply with the cost ($55.90 for two packages to Switzerland, "Y2K supporter" reward level). I answered that I would like to pay that cost. The same day, I got the PayPal invoice.

      July 22, I was able to pay that invoice since PayPal has had some problems accepting my credit card. The same day, I got shipping confirmation.

      July 29, the packages arrived. They contained everything that I feel I should have gotten in the physical world. I sent an e-mail asking about the missing redemption code for the in-KoL-item "Hand of Mr. Cards"

      July 30, I got an E-mail stating those mails with the redeem codes would go out on July 31 to all backers who opted for delivery, and indeed, I got the mail and could use the code.

      If there is one thing that I could really call a mistake on the side of Evertide Games, that would be the stretch-goal-frenzy that moved the scope of the entire game production, as well as caused the projected "$15 for international delivery" to go from "too little" to "extremely much too little".

      I have no respect for people calling Evertide Games or even Graydon personally "liars", "thieves" or even threathening violence.

      If you really think they "took your money and ran", consider this: If you were to take someone else's money "and run", would you stick around for two years, sending out updates, explaining the reasons behind the delay, and finally when you would realize you would need to lay off staff and close offices, would you even work to fulfill shipments?

    5. Missing avatar

      Matt Patt on

      I never got a reply to my question of how much option b) was going to cost me - and it's now after the 25th when they said they were leaving their office....

    6. Mike Pearce on

      I apologises for my earlier comment. I'm still not happy about paying for shipment again but I rather pay for the shipping then wait a further two years.

      I just hope the game not a shit munchkin rip-off as much as I fear it will be.

    7. Andy Jennings on

      @Kai: I don't disagree with your position. I too am unhappy with how the project was handled: many mistakes were made by Evertide all the way along the line, and now many people are going to be out of pocket and without the rewards they were promised. That sucks, you're not wrong.

      What is wrong is screaming at the dude that he ripped you* off, stole your* money, that you* think he's a twat and should choke, and that you're* going to break his legs if you meet him. These are juvenile, uncomprehending examples of Internet Braggadocio, and makes the legitimate reasons to be upset look bad by association. We're talking to a guy who let a project get away from him and didn't deal with it right, not Snidley Whiplash stealing our money while cackling and twirling his moustache.

      *the collective you, not specifically you

    8. James Olson

      Part of the problem here is that Evertide drastically underestimated the costs of shipping a big heavy box overseas. I can't speak for people elsewhere, but I originally paid $20 shipping for a game, shirt, playmat and boards. To Australia. That's crazy! Even if they got a good deal for sending out lots of packages at once, I would still expect a shipping cost of $50+. As it is, I've paid the extra shipping, bringing it to about $70, because although it's an extra cost for me, it's what I would expect to pay in shipping if I bought a game from an American store.
      Don't get me wrong, I'm still upset that it was allowed to reach this point, and that I've had to pay more than advertised to get my game, but at least we're finally getting some honesty about the situation. (Through email at least, if not on the Kickstarter page. After this clusterfuck, I'm not sure I believe that Graydon is simply "taking a step back" from the company...)

    9. Kaiser Kailer on

      What's "wrong" with people is the fact that we helped raise ten times the funding goal and they still managed to not only run out of money but do so in a precisely planned way to minimize the threat of lawsuits by giving US backers their games. That the game is readily available on Amazon UK is a joke.

      If you have your int. backers pay for shipping, you DO NOT touch that money unless it is for said shipping. Graydon's happy happy update here is also quite mocking coming directly after the mail that states we will probably never see our paid for games.

      What's really sad is the fact, that there don't seem to be any updates on the Goblins campaign. Those backers will most like not see anything either.

    10. Andy Jennings on

      @Jon: Not sure how your comment follows on from mine, I'm lucky enough to be going to KoLCon, and can pick up my copy first-hand. It is odd, admittedly, that they can get copies to Amazon UK and not their backers, but whatever, gotta recoup that money somewhere. At any rate, carry on not threatening to kneecap Graydon like everyone else is =D

    11. Missing avatar

      Jon Bradford on

      Presuming you're in the UK then your copy of the game can be shipped from the Amazon UK warehouse, shipping cost for me was around $12 (Game + Boards level), which seems to match up with the costs Amazon charge for fulfilment according to the Amazon Fulfilment website.

    12. Andy Jennings on

      Holy shit, the comments here went full retard since my last post. Don't threaten to break the dude's legs! Or hope he chokes on dollar bills he's already admitted aren't there! What the hell is wrong with you people?

    13. Mike Pearce on

      I've long since given up on ever getting my game or money back. Although if I ever meet you in real life I'd brake your legs for ripping me big time.

    14. Missing avatar

      Lukas Daniel Klausner

      What. The. Fucking. Hell.

    15. James Olson

      Over 24 hours since I told them I want to know how much I'd have to pay for shipping. Haven't heard back yet.

    16. Matt Strange

      I'm so happy about this. I'm a vengeful person and i seriously hope karma is kicking you in the ass for the money that you stole from International backers.
      You are disgusting!

    17. John Omally on

      Hey Graydon just wanted to let you know you are a thief and a total scumbag and I hope you choke on our money. I'm convinced you only sent me the game (and not everything that was promised to me) just to shut me up. I hope all the backers that were screwed by you sue you into the ground, and I'll help them in any way that I can.

    18. Missing avatar

      Jon Bradford on

      There are copies of Mr Card Game in the UK being sold on amazon by.... Evertide Games!

      There are fulfilled by Amazon which means the games are sat in Amazon's warehouse in the UK, ready to be shipped out to anyone who purchases one, this whole things gets curiouser and curiouser.

    19. mrfatso ~ Defender of The Goat on

      Kai W, dont forget in their email previously, us international customers are in a hard to send place, as far as he is concerned, we are all in an astral plane and not in this dimension..

    20. Kaiser Kailer on

      "And I am really happy for the people who are playing it and enjoying it" Are you kidding me?? This is outright mocking to all international backers who will never see their games!

    21. mrfatso ~ Defender of The Goat on

      Ya, adrian i just received the email, i guess the only reason why US customer had their copy was simply because it would have been easy for people in US to hunt him down, whereas guys elsewhere, that's gonna be alot more expensive..

      Dammit, i was hoping against all odds that i would have a copy of the game and i will be able to share them with my family and maybe get them to play video games..

    22. Omicron (Matt) on

      I live in Canada. It took quite a long time, but about 6 weeks ago I got my game and all my extras. I'm probably never going to touch another Evertide product because of this. While I know Kickstarter is not an online store, this whole thing was a mess.

    23. Adrian williams

      @mrfaatso. I doubt there will any refunds as like I've been saying for ages, they have simply taken all our money and ran. From the outset, I doubt Graydon is or was anything other than a lying, thief. I expect he now lives in a larger house. I feel the refunds should come from Kickstarter (Amazon) as they are the website that has allowed these scammers to exist and once they refund us, Kickstater can start the legal battle against Evertide for taking money off any international backers without any intension of shipping their product. Evertide hasn't shipped to us as we live outside of the US and for us to start any legal battle against them, we would need to start seek it in the US. I feel Evertide knew this and it's why they will never send our games or a refund

    24. mrfatso ~ Defender of The Goat on

      never mind, i have just seen the comment on the forum.…

      I did not receive this email, but just gonna post it here..

    25. mrfatso ~ Defender of The Goat on

      the fuck is this shit? This is not an update... i guess arghhh... if you want to put it that way, for people who did not pop into the goblin campaign, yes, this is news...

      But for the rest of us on earth, we were hoping for something about WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO OUR GAMES ..

      Does anyone knows if they are doing any refunds?

    26. Andy Jennings on

      Man, I'm sorry that the whole project has turned into a massive cyclonic clusterfuck. If it's any consolation, the actual game is fun to play.

      That said, since I'm going to KoLCon I'm going to have to take the "pick my copy up at KoLCon" option, but since I'm also intending to bring home a set of KoL pint glasses and a whole mess of my girlfriend's stuff from her mom's house, I don't intend to be happy about it =D

    27. George Dodge on

      It's probably for the best. :D

    28. Saar Shafrir on

      Apparently i have 3 options after 2.5 years:

      (a) Fellow community member and co-designer, Graydon Schlichter has offered to bring the rewards to KoLCon this year and hand deliver them to any backer planning to attend (and/or willing to carry rewards back with them on other people's behalf).

      (b) We can provide you with the exact postage / delivery cost to send your game to you and you can use our PayPal address to pay that full cost now. Since you've already paid for shipping during the campaign, we will credit whatever you pay now against your purchase of future product that we sell.

      (c) Wait and we will send you your rewards as soon as we have accumulated the money to send out all remaining backer rewards.

      my answer:

      Option a, is not available for me since i live in Israel.
      Option b, what are the costs? will it take into account my already paid for 15$? Will it include the game and play boards?
      Option c, Wait the X time is something that you do when you have trust among a costumer... sadly i don't since again the X factor is here...

    29. Saar Shafrir on

      @ James
      Why is it that when they answer, they only let you know that in a future email/post all will get answers... of course it doesn't...
      I paid 55$ for the game and 15$ for delivery, if its not nough:
      1. reach to your wallet and add the funds
      2. refund me on the 70$

    30. Saar Shafrir on

      Still didn't get my game... still have to wait weeks between answers from Graydon (never from support)...

      This is the last answer i got:
      "Hi Saar,
      There will be an announcement in the next couple of days. Thank you for your patience."

      Well this announcment really solves everything, now even Graydon will ignore my emails..

    31. Z Saenz on

      Hey, we really appreciate everything you guys have done to this point. Good looking out!!!

    32. Adam Taylor

      Not an update!

    33. Justin Kapr on

      Graydon, mad love brother! Rich, I'll try to reach out to you soon. I'm concerned. Maybe I can help?

    34. James Olson

      Just got a reply from, sharing here for accountability:

      Hey James,

      While Graydon has stepped back from routine communications, I'll be here to address support concerns. We're working on international delivery and will have more information to provide on that front in an email this evening.

      Thanks for following up and sorry for the inconvenience.

      ... Richard

    35. Amanda on

      I'm so glad that it took them 10 days after they posted about this is their other kickstarter to inform Mr Card Game.....still can't believe I actually got a game....and I'm still depressed that the international backers are being treated so badly...geez

    36. James Olson

      When I sent you an email a few days ago to try to get more info on the whole international shipping clusterfuck, and I was told there would be an update in the next few days, this is not what I was expecting!
      Who is in charge now, and what the hell is going on with our games?

    37. James Olson

      Are you fucking serious?