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@Ali - Brutal... they were supposed to have been able to get most of the North Americas too.
Never got mine. I'm in Canada.
Evertide games.... f***king bunch of asshats!
In all fairness, probably never considering both of them are MIA...
Any news on when us UK backers are going to see our pledges?
Thanks Kaiser. Update here if you do hear anything, although I won't hold my breath. Given there seems to be no legal recourse for backers outside the US, we have been hung out to dry. Kickstarter themselves bear a good chunk of responsibility, but with this and every other failed/delayed project they do not give a toss, once they have collected their 5% slice.
I urge anyone who still backs Kickstarter projects to only back them at the minimum $1 level, and then make arrangements to pay the project creators directly. Deny KS their cut wherever you can.
They are all about reaping the rewards without taking any of the responsibility.
They're still selling the game on Amazon.com as Evertide Games (fulfilled by Amazon), so I just sent them a message there. Will wait and see what happens...
As far as I am concerned, Kickstarter, Evertide Games and Graydon are guilty of international fraud - I hope all three go broke. Arseholes.
March 2016 and still no sign of the two games I ordered and pre-paid for. What do you reckon my chances are of ever seeing them delivered to Tasmania, Australia???
I hate to say it, but good luck getting a hold of either of them...
I have not received my game, can someone send it to me?
http://evertidegames.com/ is down. Here's hoping that they're at least completely bankrupt and will starve to death soon. I'd be fine with that.
I would be interested to know whether the Mr Card Games being sold on the US Amazon site are the ones which people around the world have already paid for (and which have been withheld). The makers really ought to refund people one-by-one as they receive money for these goods ... assuming they have any integrity, of course.
So when is Graydon coming back?
I come back once in a while to look at the Goblins AR guy's webpage to see if he mentions any progress - the only problem is he tends to break into long rambling rants before getting to the point. Not sure how his success is so far, but he's trying to help the Goblin backers out of pocket even though it's not his fault.
@Mel Mah I'd forgotten entirely about this. Kinda glad Evertide are getting there arses handed to them over their next rip off.
They're just sitting this one out. They didn't reply to any messages I sent them over the last year and they're still selling the game on Amazon and their own shop. If there was no money involved, this would actually be hilarious.
What actually IS hilarious is the link that Mel Mah posted. Could get interesting, yet.
That sucks... I've been watching on the sidelines since I think it's pretty lousy that this happened with non-North American backers since the guy fell off the grid.
The other project on the other hand seems to have escalated somewhat. https://www.kickstarter.com/dmca/goblins-alternate-realities-submitted-by-goblins
@Mel Mah There isn't much we can do, until the creators resurface, which I doubt will happen.
Has anyone outside of North America done anything to follow up on this? I'm curious since it looks like no one has commented for a while about it.
Yep still nothing here in Australia. They have hung their non-US backers out to dry, we won't see anything. Submitting reports to Kickstarter is useless, they couldn't care less once they've got their 10% skim.
Still nothing in the UK. Have sent numerous messages to Graydons email and the Evertide support system, received literally nothing. Was hoping that 1 year on, they might have enough spare cash to have finished fulfilling the rest of the pledges, but from the comments I can see many of you guys still haven't received yours either.. I have submitted a support/complaint ticket to Kickstarter. I dont hold out a lot of hope of it getting me anywhere though.
I think it's a great thing Brad. Hopefully Grayden will get what's coming to him, the thieving ****
anyone in the US want to look in to this?
Several years on and I've now reached a point where I don't even want this game anymore, I just want a refund. The fact the KoL site is still advertising the fucking thing when I went to look is moronic.
Who'd have thought the UK was such a mysterious and unknown place in terms of posting shit?
Neil, thank you for chasing this so diligently. I keep seeing adverts for Mr Card Game on Facebook and it gets my blood boiling every time.
Good on you, Neil.
Thanks for your pessimist non-activist reply I'm sure many have concerns like you & never act on them. Unfortunately the time for words as has been alluded by the progression of the comments section has long past such a point (it can only progress further as legal action under the advice of the American Federal Trade Commission) if you are indeed even making a point.
However I have a much better point if this was a larger more publicly transparent company like Amazon refusing to send paid for goods to their recipients due to a recent wage action on behalf of American warehousing staff YOU STILL WOULD NOT TOLERATE IT.
I think your saying to people we should not bother holding Evertide games and by extension Kickstarter responsible for defrauding us as investors.
I believe that such comments to dissuade people from completely LEGAL action flies in the face of reason, common sense, as well as being blatantly against the notion of justice.
If you don't want to be part of holding them accountable no-one is forcing you to; but obviously your place is not here with the people working towards a solution.
Kickstarter are a waste of time Neil. They just take the 10% and don't give a flying one about the 'users'. Like I said previously, it they did, they would take that 10% and use it to send out the international's games... They sent me that same lame response.
Thank you for your tenacity. You're a legend!
I check back about once every month. I never expect to get this game, but I like that you are keeping someone... anyone accountable...
Oh yeah also as for kickstarters response.
"Kickstarter takes the privacy of our users very seriously, so we don't provide a creator's information directly to backers, nor our correspondences with them."
So have at them and i hope they get replaced by other services like steams greenlight in it's entirety; because it's obvious their only intent in this matter is to provide a front for scams and frauds.
Good & Bad news.
The bad news is the ACCC in Australia is a dead end lead for taking on the cause.
A pity because they usually do their own legal proceedings on behalf of the Australian public.
"Thank you for your email of 4 February 2015 to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) about Evertide Games Inc. Your reference number for this matter is 745442.
You should contact the Federal Trade Commission in the United States to find out about your rights in this matter.
We have referred you to the Federal Trade Commission because Evertide Games Inc is located in The United States. Australian consumer protection laws apply only to businesses operating in Australia. While we cannot help you with this matter, I have logged the details of your complaint. Complaints like yours help us understand what issues cause the most harm to Australian consumers and where best to use our resources. You can find out about our priorities on our website."
It is also good news in that a regional response was never going to be as easy or perhaps cover all of us anyways (at best it might of provided precedence); leading of course to more time wasting approaching the US federal Trade Commission for advisement of our rights.
Lets be honest here though the American system is a pay for justice one and the longer we leave this the more economic strength Evertide will have to throw lawyers at it just to keep it treading water in court.
Sorry I've been a bit tardy having had many things going on this year. As stated i have now sent a follow up and will post it here.
Sent 27th Feb by me:
"Good day Travis
as I have stated on the Kickstarter website "I will be making up a follow up e-mail in a day or two as Kickstarter has not returned me any indication that they sent the email, if it was received or if they got a response; indicating they've probably thought I'd forget about it like some armchair general." (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336486938/mr-card-game/comments) it is now time that I review your involvement in the process to keep your community informed as to our combined progress & the steps we will then take.
Personally I would find it rather deliciously ironic if we started legal proceedings through a Kickstarter project as funding; but such things will have to run by the community. (also this e-mail is being posted to the community).
I have referred the matter to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission); "Web form ID: 100035573
Thank you for contacting the ACCC. We appreciate you taking the time to write to us." and am awaiting response from them that you can be sure I will also follow up on.
My latest request is for the forwarding of correspondence (of yours with the content creator of Mr.Cardgame dated Dec 16) when you stated "We've reached out to them with a reminder of their obligations to their backer community" to prove you have actually complied with what you said you would do and any correspondence if any you have recieved back from evertide games.
Ahead thank you for your time."
In case you're wondering The ACCC in Australia handles consumer protection and clearly this is a matter not just due to Evertide games, but also because of Kickstarter itself in handling such issues having whether they acknowledge it or not responsibilities not to provide a scam front.
If they have not acted I would recommend as a first step venting the issue through online channels to get as much media attention to the case as possible.
Evertide games is currently trading which means they are susceptible to community backlash and poor press.
I'll let you decide what you want to do in regards to how you've felt Kickstarter has handled their 'facilitation of communication' once I get their final response.
Of course this is looking to shape up to requiring legal proceedings most likely a class action, something I'm not willing to chair due to my current commitments.
Anyways I will keep you informed as to Kickstarters response for proof of action taken and any ACCC recommendations or legal actions resulting.
@Neil. Keep us in the loop about all this please.
Thank you for your hard work and diligence in fighting this.
These bastards obviously don't care about the theft of our money and lies about the campaign and if the law doesn't sort them out then I hope karma gets the best of them in the long run.
Evertide you are a bunch of F***ing pricks!
After jumping through the hoops of the cut and paste back and forth of kickstarters support and blatantly stating if they can't give me a straight answer find me your damn boss.
I succeeded only so far as to get them to (on their honor) try to contact Evertide games to establish wether they are a)still in existence & b)to update their progress of their kickstarter.
I also was privy to the gem by one 'Travis' if his staff member name is actually correct that 'These terms outline the responsibilities of backers and creators. This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn’t fulfill their obligations under the agreement. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.'
I will be making up a follow up e-mail in a day or two as Kickstarter has not returned me any indication that they sent the email, if it was received or if they got a response; indicating they've probably thought I'd forget about it like some armchair general.
On our end though we have seemingly exhausted all reasonable avenues of redress, fulfilling any possible requirements under law for the resolution of this issue.
This places the ball squarely in Evertides court if it wants to prove that a)It is not acting fraudulently congruent to shipping agreement and b)the warehouse currently possessing our paid for goods is in fact not in receipt of stolen goods (by the fact that they are being withheld indefinitely with no premise of return to the owner).
I've also just sent away an enquiry to the Australian Consumer Competition & Commission (The ACCC) explaining the situation (Web form ID: 100035573).
This should be able to give at least on the Australian side advice on legal recourse; because as I keep telling people when you do business with Australia you do business 'IN' Australia (subject to our laws).
From the short searches I have done online, I have found this info:
Evertide Games Inc
459 Old Stamford Road
New Canaan, CT 06840
Phone: (310) 936-1571
Anyone tried to call them at that number? Might make some headway.
Thanks Neil, that is a great post. I never really thought about it, but postage was not part of my pledge, it was seperate. The pledge may not have covered all of what was promised, but what was possible should have been shipped using what I was charged for shipping, or should have been refunded my postage if nothing was shipped.
I have been emailing them on and off, with no reply.
Still no news? No contact from anyone on this?
I'd be up for a class action. the fact that they refuse comment on the situation and lack clarity seeking to obfuscating who is in charge of the current shipping fullfillment situation is definately cause for legal action.
What's more Kickstarters service is for starters a service, though unpaid it still is meant to facilitate communication between the two essential parties backers and content creators.
It is currently not fullfilling that by not providing the avenue for recourse and as such is an accomplice in the fraud of 'money being taken for postage but not used for postage'.
Also technically the goods are ours as we have already paid for them as such holding them hostage for an undefined period of time would have grounds as theft (reciept of stolen goods for the warehouse holding them). They simply have no legal standing to hold them when the agreed price has already been exchanged.
Well, on Evertide's homepage seem to be some new games to be listed. If they have the money to create, produce and ship those games, they should have the money to send us our games, right? I mean, of course, they still should have all that shipping money we paid them for... uh, what's it called? Oh, SHIPPING!
All I want is an answer, a word, anything. I just want to know where I stand.
Graydon...theiving cunt, Evertide theiving cunts....all of them...cunts!
Now even less reason to be holding our games hostage in deep storage.
Send em there and tell people to pay Aus post to pick them up; i mean fucks sake it's almost 2015 and still no word on fulfillment of orders. I wouldn't be surprised if people start class actions against kickstarter for assisting essentially in this fraud.
I'm sorry, they did not communicate properly. I haven't received a reply to a single message/email I've sent them. And when they made the offer of collecting at KoLCon, I sent them 6 communications asking to take advantage of that option, without reply. And I think that's what hurts the most, that they offered a genuine solution which works out for everyone and failed to follow through.
"Paul meant Kickstarter with the "F--- the rest" comment."
Ah. True. Thanks for the correction.
Given that, he's kinda correct, but... Well I went over that already.
This kind of issue isn't part of their responsibility
...and they would go under, if they ever tried to deal with these issues.
Both in terms of the insane and impossible workload required and the fact that the money they'd have to spend, would be ridiculously much more than all the money they earn.
It is practically impossible.
On many levels.
"they got nearly ten times what they asked for and still couldn't manage to ship the already produced games to their backers"
True, but that was also coupled with tons of stretch goal, that caused requirements for more time, work and money.
"(while Amazon got games from them that are happily sent out right now)"
Also, they apparently do have the money to make the games that they sell on Amazon. (well... try to sell. I dunno how popular a KoL boardgame would be [it is a bit obscure]. Especially given that it became outdated while it was being developed)
Paul meant Kickstarter with the "F--- the rest" comment. But then again, you can't seriously thinking that Evertide fulfilled their responsibility... they got nearly ten times what they asked for and still couldn't manage to ship the already produced games to their backers (while Amazon got games from them that are happily sent out right now). And don't get me started on the "updates saying what's happened" when the updates said "slight delay because of system error, sorry EU/rest of the world guys" and meant "somehow we spent all that shipping money on other stuff, oops".
They've made updates saying what's happened, and they've made an honest effort to deliver on their promises ...but they've failed.
They did not say "F$@# the rest, not our problem", at any time. They said "sorry, but we can't do any more".
Given that they made an honest effort to do what they can to get it done (and a promise that they will get it done, if/when they can), and communicated properly, they have fulfilled their responsibility.
Now another Kickstarter project I've backed (CLANG), however... That was just plain fraud.
Kickstarter provide a place for creators and backers to interact, and a contract between them. They are not responsible to handle conflicts between them.
If you have any issue, it should be with the project creators.
This has to be on par with the worst kickstarter I have backed, the other one is Evil Spares None which I got the core game for (which is an alright game I guess) but then all the expansions and such that I paid for never came and the rules that were only ever online got taken down. The man that made it doesn't reply to anyone and it's just dead. Reporting that to kickstarter did absolutely nothing, much like reporting this one did. I hate the company that is Kickstarter, they don't follow through with anything they just get their money and go "F$@# the rest, not our problem"
I regret not paying that additional money for my copy but I couldn't at the time as I didn't have a job. Now there is just no way I'll ever see my game as it's now in storage and that just makes me sad. Evertide aren't going to do anything to give me my game or the other games they promised to make. Kickstarter isn't going to follow up and police the company making them come to some kind of agreement with us. Just nothing, forever. It makes me lose faith in this website...
*hasn't received anything*
This hasn't really gone particularly well...
Well, over at the Goblins KS there hasn't been an official announcement that the game is dead and the money is gone. When that one hits, there will be more than disappointment, I guess. Many backers don't follow the comments, so they only know what was said in the updates.
Also, I completely agree with you that we paid for US shipping. I still can't believe how this could happen with 10 times the funding goal, though and I still demand a listing of where and when which money went. In a serious business, there should still be a large pile of money that is labeled "International shipping, DO NOT TOUCH prior to sending out rewards" in some storage unit...