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Co-create with us the VIT 3D printer to revolutionize the way people 3D prints with High Quality laser sintering technology!
102 backers pledged €292,680 to help bring this project to life.

VAT Update

Posted by Natural Robotics (Creator)
4 likes

Good afternoon,  

During all the campaign and after it finished, the VAT issue has raised a lot of doubts and we have also received some severe critiques from you, who have bet on our project and have supported us in Kickstarter. He have tried to make ourselves understood, we have had long conversations with our accountant and with our lawyer and yet, so far, there is no one who has been able to see that the approach given was a mistake. 

First of all, we want to apologize for the confusion. We deeply regret the confusions that we have caused with VAT and we want to make clear that we never had the intention to do something illegal. The fiscal and legal counsel was not rigorous enough, and Natural Robotics has made the mistake of not looking deeply into the matter. 

Our intention has always being addressed to issue an invoice with a total of €5,999 for everyone. It is understood, then, that VAT is 0% for EU companies and 21% for final consumers and Spanish companies/consumers. Thus, Spanish companies which can deduct the VAT a posteriori would end up paying €4739.21 and the rest of consumers (foreign companies and also national and international consumers) €5,999. Our company needs to produce the machines for a value of €5,999, as perceiving an amount under this quantity would imply producing under cost. We could allow that a tiny part of the production would be produced in these terms, but not all of it. At no time has been intended to collect money which was not ours, but rather the opposite. 

However, we believe that it is time to assume our responsibility and declare that what we have been defending up to now is not fair at all. We apologize, once again, and we detail what we will do about it:
 The price of the machine will be of €6000 WITHOUT VAT. In European terms, the total amount of the invoice will be of this €6000 in concept of the machine since as the Ley del IVA 37/1992, article 25 states: “Las operaciones intracomunitarias de entrega de bienes están exentas de la aplicación del impuesto”. 

This implies that everyone will pay the same as they have paid since now. There will not be any direct modification on Kickstarter contributions. Nevertheless, we understand that Spanish companies are directly injured with this decision, as from the beginning they have been told that VAT was included, which it allowed them to deduct it afterwards. For this reason, we will perfectly understand that our Spanish backers refuse to go on with the purchase of the VIT. 

Once again, our sincere apologies for this misunderstanding and the inconveniences it has caused. We hope that your doubts and concerns have been resolved. 

Thank you. 

Hector EstellerNatural Robotics

Comments

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    1. Missing avatar

      Pieralberto Panelli on

      May I say my word? When I met you in Rome, I saw just a wood box and I was already thinking to bet on your project. During this long period from Maker Fair to Kickstarter campaign we had many talk by email where you were going to plan 5 super-early bird unit at 4000€. I got surprised when I read 5.799 but then I realized that it was VAT included so I got the 4th machine. Even the shipping charges are a lot of money. Now I should have to pay 6000 + WAT, so it means 7.075 + shipping charges witch will be 8.111. In fact is the double of what i planned to bet.

    2. Missing avatar

      Elias Dinter on

      You had some options and you picked the worst of all! Changing the price and the rules of the game the campaign ends is by no means fair to anybody! You clearly advertised in your captain that the price includes all VAT related issues! You told your customers and investors that they will receive an invoice containing official VAT. By the way, everything else would be quite illegal for selling in the European Union. You are required to give the amount of VAT quoted on the invoice. That is the law! If you doubt this you should seriously consider to change your legal adviser...

      You planned to trick on the VAT for selling in the European Union by quoting the VAT to be 0%. Yes, you can do this when selling to companies only but you can't do this trick selling to individuals. You are not allowed to sell to end users without collecting VAT... Think about this... If this trick would be legal everybody could buy goods from another country within the European Union and wouldn't to have pay VAT at all... This would be great for the customers but all dealers selling stuff locally would be undercut buy foreign dealers by around 20%... This would be a economic Armageddon for all local business...

      I have the understanding that you have serious problems to cover the cost... I can understand that but as any serious business man you have to calculate your project before making an offer to your customers... Other hand this problem, too making mistakes in this regard... I personally told you my concerns two weeks ago and if you decide you can't cover the cost selling the VAT there is only one legitimate decision... Terminate the campaign, adjust your pricing and start all over again! I have seen this from other projects in the past and I can understand that this decision is hard to make but if you have to do it you have to do it...

      To recap the situation once more... You promised to include the VAT in the pricing, it is all over the site of your campaign... In addition you don't exclude individuals and end users from pledging and when dealing with these group of customers in the EU you are not allowed to sell the item with VAT of 0%... This it not legal! In addition you you tried to change the rules for customers picking up locally and think you can get away with this..,

      You have a serious problem now and I will report this issue to Kickstarter and legal authorities. I have fully respect for your fantastic printer and seriously considered to buy one... But you have to manage the business part as well as the technology part... You must be fair to all to your customers and operate within the legal boundaries of the law...

    3. Dynamic Growth on

      Thanks VIT Team, to explain the VAT issue.

      Our company as a backer from your project we feel VIT has an amazing low price for such an incredible 3D printer.

    4. Missing avatar

      Davide D'Emiliano on

      Hi NR team,
      After this last update as a private backer EU resident I actually share same doubts and concerns as @Daniel.

      From the FAQ page of the KS campaigne it was clear that VAT was included into the pledge amount so I was assuming no extra costs for me on that side. Has this changed? Do I now need to take into account an extra 1200€ to cover VAT?

      I am sure there is a simple explanation bit I would really appreziate if you could please clarify above points

      Thanks!

    5. Daniel Scharfbillig on

      Hello NR Team,
      rather than to clarify the issue, this actually confuses me more. Before backing your project I read ALL the comments since I had been saying to myself: 5999 for a SLS printer is a good price. In my country, I have a small business on the side for 3d printing. That means regarding my country: I can't deduct the VAT. I am basically buying as a private person.

      Reading your current Update I understand it like this: On top of the 5999 Euros I pledged, I need to add the VAT for my country. That would mean another 1200 on top.
      On October the 27th regarding a post that stated that exact problem you clearly wrote:
      "That's not true. Taxes (VAT) are included.
      We make invoice with each contribution.
      The only thing that is not included are the import costs, (they depend on each country of destination)."

      Did I misunderstand your update or what is going on? Please clarify.

    6. Costin Gavrilescu on

      Dear Sir,
      I try to stay calm when i read this. You change your words and you try to change our agreement.
      Before my pledge, i wrote your comment that for eu customers the price include vat and will be clearly stated on invoice.
      So the price is 4700eur+vat.
      After that it is only ine discution if vay need to be invoiced or not.
      Change of selling terms after sign of contract (pledge) it is not legal.
      So, I kindly request to change your position.
      If not, i will buy it as Spanish Company and i will resell after it to my company with all rules regarding vat. Or i will ask you to invoicing me with vat and i will recover my vat with Eu mechanism to recover vat from spanish fiscal autorites. But bofh ways are not normal way. Normal way is to have you done right all procedure and to not change oud deal.
      Br
      Costin