Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
Just want to add I also received my coin, have to say I'm very impressed with it. Has a nice and slightly weighty feel to it.
Just got my coin. I had forgotten about it and it was a nice surprise.
Hello! I missed the activity below with working on AdventureX last year, but Overmann and I have had a similar conversation privately. We're still aiming for GOG, but at the moment the mobile release is taking precedence.
The DRM question does come down to a matter of opinion, and I respect both sides. Rather than use a serial number, we considered taking the GOG approach and asked you to create accounts and login to the ASH site to download, but we thought that would probably annoy more people.
It's definitely true that I and other developers need to think more carefully about DRM when launching a Kickstarter.
Everspace: This one I've wishlisted before, let's see how it turns out.
One review actually says: "I Hate Roguelikes, I Love this Game".
From that list, Ghost of a Tale looks the best to me. Maybe Everspace also, but I don't really care for roguelikes. I would have been all for Rad Rodgers if it was more Commander Keen and less Duke Nukem.
All of the in development games do seem to have a certain level of quality to them, at least graphically, they look somewhat polished.
Last time I chatted with Alasdair, he said "I just asked ASH for an update on where we are with GOG, and they're still working on it." I wonder if any progress has been made, or if GOG said no.
At least they are curating their "Early Access" titles, although the criteria they use for selection are often mysterious.
Currently there are 24 games "in development": https://www.gog.com/games…
The review scores aren't that bad mostly, so they did something right.
Personally I know Divinity: Original Sin 2, We Happy Few and Rad Rodgers, all from Kickstarter.
Ghost of a Tale looks very promising! (but I will probably wait for a later version)
Somehow I missed the release of Clustertruck, but wow that's terrible. They just ripped out features for their "DRM Free Edition"
I just read the update for Her Majesty's SPIFFING, and it doesn't sound like GOG's going to let them in. But they let games like Clustertruck in, that's messed up. SPIFFING is an episodic game, so they didn't really have a chance.
You know, GOG already has early access titles. I'm not sure how they determine if the game will be finished or not.
Yes, with an episodic game you only have a chance if you are e.g. Telltale Games.
With smaller developers they don't want to risk unfinished games. Which is not that a bad thing, we don't really want another Steam Early Access.
But lately I am a little disappointed with the games they *do* put in the catalog.
When a game is called "DRM Free Edition" it certainly doesn't sound promising.
Or something like Clustertruck is just a joke (e.g. read the review from Bonsewswesa on GOG if want to know why).
GOG would be optimal, but I hear their very picky about what they put on their site. But a slick looking game like Nelly ought to get in easily enough.
Yes Duke really needs to be distributed via Humble. I don't think GOG will except it until after they release all the episodes, and then they probably still won't.
Let's hope Nelly Cootalot 2 (and 1 when it's done) will eventually be released on GOG.
Humble is a great way for handling distribution. It doesn't even require an account (but is a possibility) and also allows distribution of keys (like Steam or GOG).
Since you also addressed Duke: I hope we can get it on Humble (I've sent them a message).
Yep pretty much the case about the publisher. And as you said, the key does squat against piracy.
What I don't get is why don't the release a DRM free copy on humble, like many other games. Then they could've easily distributed the game via humble, and problem solved.
DRM comes in all sort of variations. A key with online activation is clearly DRM.
I just don't agree that it's DRM in this case (Nelly2) when you just have to enter a key once during installation (no online check).
It makes it easier to distribute the game files without the fear that everyone who finds the download link can play the game without having it purchased (it's nothing that would actual prevent piracy but I guess the distributor [ASH] wanted it anyway).
But other than that I agree that it's often a hassle to get to DRM-free versions.
I also agree that Steam is DRM although there are different kinds of it:
- Steam game with 3rd party DRM (which is the worst)
- Steam game with Steam-DRM (Steamworks DRM), although it's clearly DRM it's a less intrusive one (e.g. vs Denuvo&Co which often act like malicious software)
- Steam game without DRM: This is something some publishers and developers call DRM-free. Steam is only used for distribution. The problem here is that (in contrary to Humble or GOG) you *need to* install the Steam client just to download the game. E.g. on Windows the Steam client is a Windows Service running with super user rights!
When I look through the games you've listed it's always the same: A publisher stepped in and handled the distribution and they didn't really care, they were using Steam/DRM etc. as they always do and often always want.
e.g. for Broken Sword 5 it was Deep Silver, for Duke it's Alliance Digital Media.
Martin O, Just to be clear I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to make my point understood.
"Your requirements for DRM-free are too extreme even for me :-)"
Hmm... They way I see it, either it's DRM free, or it's not. Requiring any sort of code to "activate" is DRM. Just like requiring a login to play (steam). Or an online check.
An no point is DRM a good thing. Hence why I back Kickstarter projects that promote DRM free games. Sadly not everyone understands what exactly is DRM.
Broken Sword 5 went so far as to ship out a big box copy, that only contained a steam version. They had to have new DRM free DVDs made and shipped out.
Tex Murphy left people hanging for days after release, and a message got out they weren't going to release DRM free at all.
But shortly there after the official word came out, and they did give everyone a DRM free copy, just a bit late, and only after people blew up there forums.
Duke Grabowski is in the middle of a conflict about it's DRM free version, originally he was going to offer refunds, but then he released it on a google drive. But of course most people would rather have the humble version.
So far Broken Age was the easiest, giving you a GOG, Humble, and Steam key.
I don't see why this needs to be a fight on so many Kickstarter projects. You advertise as being DRM free, you need to deliver.
It's part of the installation process. E.g. when using the Windows installers from GOG you need the setup.exe + also often the data is split into .bin files but there is no need to complain about that.
For Nelly you have the setup.exe, setup-1.bin and your key.txt, it's just a bunch of data you need during installation.
I do like all my games DRM-free. Except a few exceptions I buy DRM-free only since several years.
Your requirements for DRM-free are too extreme even for me :-)
Martin O, Then we can agree to disagree, no further discussion necessary.
About GOG, they don't have DRM, they have a store, you buy things, you download them. You don't ever have to look up GOG again, and you don't have to keep a Key around.
Just a installer with no copy protection at all.
So then I guess you don't use GOG because of it's evil DRM? You can't just download a game. You have to provide credentials before they let you to your game downloads.
I.e. they actually "control the distribution of copyrighted works".
A product key is problematic when the validation requires access to external resources (i.e. online activation). In this case it's like a password.
It's "DRM-free enough" for me (but apparently that's not enough for you).
Martin O, "DRM technologies try to control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works, as well as systems within devices that enforce these policies."
You can read more about Product keys DRM from a quick google search, or here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Product_keys
But I'm sure you've been using it for so long, it doesn't matter anymore.
DRM is DRM.. It doesn't matter how lite a DRM it is.
I back Kickstarter projects to help promote/make possible the types of products I want to see more of. And I always ask the devs (If it isn't listed) before I back about the DRM in a game. On this Kickstarter it clearly stated "DRM-Free Digital Download of the game".
And that's all I'm asking for, a DRM free digital download of the game.
And you can store the game + key in the same place, no one is preventing you from this.
@Overmann: Why do you think it's DRM?
It's like sending you the game as encrypted ZIP and telling you the password is 1234 or whatever.
Alasdair, virtually huh.. old-school key, really... Isn't that awesome...
Gotta love almost getting what you were promised.
Hi Martin O & Overmann: Thanks for sort of answering each other's questions. As Martin says, the virtually DRM-Free-version is still available (and doesn't require online activation, but does use an old-school key). We are still working on GOG. There's not much I can say, except that I REALLY want to see it on GOG and will keep at it. Hope that helps!
@Overmann: As far as I know it's not some online activation!
You have the game (zip/exe) and you have the key. This should count as DRM-free.
@ Martin O: Actually that isn't a DRM free download, it still requires a Key to activate.
@Overmann: It was a choice between Steam key or DRM-free download directly from the publisher (ASH).
See update #67: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/315061806/nelly-cootalot-the-fowl-fleet-retro-pirate-adventu/posts/1521575
Nonetheless this needs to be on GOG!!oneeleven
@Martin, Where is said DRM free version? I still haven't received any DRM free version.
Oh, for clarification: I know there is a DRM-free version, I was wondering about a release on GOG.
And please also get the first one there when it's re-released!
Btw., are there any news about the DRM-free version?
Hey! Please check out this kickstarter for AdventureX 2016:
Decar: Thanks for letting me know. Would you mind emailing support[at symbol]application-systems.de about the extra box?
Arrived home today to see I jad received a second physical copy of Nelly Cootalot. Though I think every household in the UK should have a copy and thats why Ive now got 2, I'd just like to make sure I'm not depriving someone of their copy..etc and how it should be returned.
A mobile version of Nelly has been shown at Gamescom. I really hope it finds a lot of new players there!
rgnrk & Denzel: I've asked ASH (the publishers) where we are up to with GOG. I'm not handling it directly, but I will let you know when I hear something. I'm still keen that we make it to GOG eventually.
Decar: I did two shows in Brighton, so there's a good chance it was me. I forgive you!
I'd also like to know if there's still a chance for a GOG release, as I haven't redeemed the game yet. In fact, in that note, did anyone got the "drm-free" release and can tell me if it's drm-free? How did that key thingy work?
(Yes, I'm not a Steam user nor a will be anytime soon, and for some reason the humble version is not drm-free).
I just have to take a second to say: that totally by chance I think I walked past Alasdair at the Brighton Fringe Festival back in May and I was so bedazzled by his charming good looks that I regrettably didn't take the opportunity to thank him in person for all his hard work on this project. I have a terrible feeling the regret I have, may last eon. Every step of this project been amazing!
Any word on a GOG release (I like to have most of my games on one site)? You said they rejected you before, which surprises me because they're usually pretty friendly towards Adventure games, and yours actually has a professional quality look to it. Anyway, I played your game and enjoyed it immensely. I hope that it's successful enough for you to make more.
Three years... wow! Can we round it down to two? No? OK.
Glad it arrived safely, enjoy the game!
My DVD arrived today. That's approximately three years after it was funded. Great project and well run. Thanks! Best of luck for the future.
Good point, Martin. But I would have used Vegemite if I were sending it to Australia.
Thanks for that link Christoph, I hadn't seen it. Nelly is in illustrious company!
It could be even worse! It could be covered in Marmite...
Got my special edition too, what a lovely package. It's also worth noting that you made "The best adventure games on PC" of Richard Cobbett on PC Gamer http://www.pcgamer.com/the-25-best-adventure-games/ ;)
I'm sure you were just lucky, Michael. The other DVDs will probably arrive on fire or covered in jam.
Geeze talk about a kickstarter done right.
Update saying 'claim your DVD' then a week later it arrives.
You'd best be careful, we Australian's aren't used to fast/affordable/efficient postage, you'll have the other project creators out to get you for making them look bad.
Thank, JS! It's lovely to hear that. I can promise there probably be a few more updates, and hopefully more adventures too!
@ Alasdair: Finished the game and I really enjoyed it, it is a really wonderful game!
I am really gonna miss you and your updates, hoping you will be back with another adventure game some day...
Hi Mike, sorry to hear that. I've just sent the publishers an email (CCing in your KS email). Hopefully they will be able to resolve it soon.
Finally got around to downloading the game, and my serial number does nothing to unlock it. Any ideas?
(I'm using the serial e-mailed to me by Application Systems, not the Personal Exchange Code.)
You're welcome, Bob! An update about the DVDs is coming soon. We're just working on printing the stuff to go in the boxes...
Add-ons received a short while ago. Thanks Alasdair!