Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
Interview with the new CEO at 22cans.
I don't know, but Public Relations addresses can be rather hit and miss.
A while ago, I contacted them from the "Created by 22cans" link above and right. And then the "Contact me" link. I only got a copy and paste as outlined here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… , but at least it was a response. After that, I replied, again asking for a refund, but received no response. I went another route, but unfortunately my guess is that you would need to be *very* persistent, if you wanted to pursue it. At least, you might be able to get an email address out of them that they respond to.
Having said that, it may not have been that long since you sent the email, but I thought I'd comment since I was here :o)
This link might be useful. It contains a lot of links and information about what is known, past experiences with Kickstarters, advice and the like. You may have seen it before, but... just in case:
Make it of what you will. Or not :o)
Well time told already but there are still people not listening to the roaring sound of failure. Just a short flashback: Peter left, the studio got reorganized, goals have not been fulfilled and so on. And the game by itself is still not a go(o)d game, more a clickfest to try to do stuff, you'd actually like to do without having to work your ... off.
Tried at email@example.com but so far no response.
Time will tell I guess:)
Have you tried to get one?
I would love a refund since this is clearly not happening.
Careful what you say, my comments were deleted for asking for a refund.
It's a shame as I have always been a true fan of Peters past work. Magic carpet, dungeon keeper, black and white have been my favourite games over the years. I can't even look at this game any longer due to the mess that is endlessly tapping bubbles. Very disappointed on how this has gone and if 22 cans had any decency they would issue refunds and mark this as a failure, brush themselves off and build a truly great game that will save Peters name. It would be a travesty if this ends as his legacy. I hold him 100% responsible for how this has turned out. Shame on you Peter.
Not sure if this board is of any interest to anyone http://godus.boards.net/ , but there's more open discussion there (no 22cans mods), the Devs do post there though and there's a Guest area where no registration is required. It was just in case people weren't getting anywhere with the official boards or here.
@ Yiangos Stylianou
That question may have been just for 22cans to answer, but I think it depends who one asks. Many consider it a flop, many consider it a lot worse than that, but 22cans themselves haven't commented here in over six months ( https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/22cans/comments ), so I'm not sure you'll get anywhere here with 22cans. But you may have already known that.
As for now I think the game just limps along. When it all came to a head end of 2014/beginning 2015, it was said that it would need nine months more development and that's not far away, but it doesn't look like the game is much closer to anything resembling what they said it would be. But then, after Peter Molyneux's comments, I can't see that it ever will be.
@ Phil & dj fantone
Sorry if you already know this, but I would say you would have to contact 22cans directly, but I wouldn't hold out much hope unless you *really* push and *keep* pushing, as those contacting 22cans just received a cookie cutter response (at least as far as I'm aware):
I sympathise, but we are stuck with such things :o( Maybe we can look on them as humble reminders to future decisions and hope that those who see do not mock us to excess. Maybe Kickstarter could do a special promotion:
Back 10 Projects and allow one previously backed Project to be removed :o)
wheres our refund, in the TOS it says they have to either give us the rewards for backing or refund.
How do I delete this joke from my Kickstarter history so people don't laugh at me, and so I can stop feeling ripped off when I look at my backing history?
Can we get a refund now?
Has this project been classed as a flop yet?
It's a real shame that after all this time you are not able to finish the game as promised but released it on IOS as a finished product. (Even though it's a money grabbing and with no content game).
The worst this is this radio silence. I funded WFTO and after the end I have been getting weekly updates for two years until it was finished. From you nothing.
At least have the blls and tell us what's up.
This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.
It's kotaku, so that may mean greater or lesser things to different people, but:
I've not been following closely, but things seem to still be dragging on very, very slowly. The commitment, seems to be very much in words only, with very little to show for it.
@ John A
I think I can guess the answer to this, but any word/progress?
I think a fair number of people are wondering the same.
I wonder when the PC game will next get an update?
Just to update this is a joke...
I actually don't want 22cans to abandon this or expect a refund, I do however as a backer expect a finished PC game (as 22cans are still in business), and at this stage I'd settle for a decent single player finished game (let alone multi-player).
As it stands, without the game being finished this must stand as one of the most disastrous video game kickstarters (especially considering the amount of money raised from backers!).
Fortunately it hasn't dented my enthusiasm for kickstarter, and at the moment (May 2015) there as some great video game kickstarter campaigns being done :)
Just a quick note on my quest for a refund. As Avalanche says, 22cans are completely ignoring these comments, so I ended up raising a ticket on their support system, though that hasn't got me much further. I've had two replies stating that a refund isn't possibly because the game is still in "Early Access" and is still being worked on, and wow, hold on to yer knickers, we have all these great new features "coming soon". It's been about month since the last reply.
@ Allan MacKenzie-Graham
Yes. With the fallout from Backers, Peter's view that Kickstarter is at least partly to blame ( http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/molyneux-kickstarter-is-a-destructive-force-that-damaged-godus-1275205 ) and his entire way of working being completely incompatible, then any return might have to be a finished game.
Which seems to largely defeat the purpose of Kickstarter :o) And even then, I'm not sure how many would back.
I find it funny that PM even considers the POSSIBILITY of using kickstarter again.
I went through a similar situation with Frontier Developments posting on the Elite: Dangerous Kickstarter and was very unhappy about it. Nice person, but toeing the company line as you said of George. In no way engaging, or answering questions outside of acceptable statements. I went on and on about it here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… , but you're right, it's the company that sets the person up and it's the company that deserves the anger. It really does bug me though, as the company is setting up angry Backers to be angry at the nice person. And Backers can't win. Backers can be nice back and get *nowhere* or be angry and risk the company sending out higher level press releases saying how staff who are trying to help are being abused or some such. At least gaining sympathy for the company and opening up Backers to accusations of 'entitlement' and the like.
That aside :o) , yes, Kickstarter was just completely wrong for Peter Molyneux, but even then in this article: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/molyneux-kickstarter-is-a-destructive-force-that-damaged-godus-1275205 , Peter tried to make out that it was somehow Kickstarter's fault.
Populous seemed to get very lost in all of this. Somehow I feel it should have been a lot simpler, but then, I'm not sure how much any of us figured the effect 'mobile' would have. A shame indeed.
As for you possible refund, I'm not sure if you've already realised that 22cans aren't replying here:
No progress at all. Frankly, I kinda liked George. I realize he had to toe the company line. I'm still angry at 22cans, though.
After reading the article at Rock, Paper, Shotgun I feel like I understand what happened better. Peter Molyneux had no business going to Kickstarter. He should have just gone with a publisher and be done with it. Instead he went with thousands of backers and now no one is happy. Damn shame. This could have been a great game. If I had known that this would be a pay-to-win game (or bad port of one) I never would have given a dime (or 10p :).
@ Dead Cat
I did wonder why Jack wasn't mentioned in the list of people working on Godus. Very interesting article.
Thanks for the link.
another one gone. Claims it was "just time". More suspicion of game being spaced.
No actual evidence of PC game ever having been worked on, much less this "PC sprint" that keeps being trotted out only to be filled with mobile content and mobile bug fixes with an occasional port to PC.
What you said seems fair and reasonable to me. Although personally I was very unhappy, I have no problem at all with people enjoying Godus or those who see a lot of potential and are happy to see where development goes.
I think Peter deserves a lot of the criticisms, but if you're referring to the Rock, Paper, Shotgun article in particular, then I thought it was a bad article. Not because of the intent to hold people accountable (which I am very much in favour of), but because of poor execution. That article, then became a bit of a focus of attention and reference. But you may be referring to other things. I do agree that some like to be angry and some tend to rage out of all proportion, but I've not been following things on Steam or Godus' forum to know if that's been happening there. Generally I've found comments section of articles and the Comments here to have been mostly reasonable, but having said that, there have been some angry Comments. Like you said though, I think that's understandable.
It may not have been the focus of your Comment, but as an aside, I think the Rock, Paper, Shotgun article split opinions and ended up doing more harm than good.
I've just been reading your exchanges with George from way back in June/July of last year and was shaking my head at 22cans' replies/attitude. A belated thanks from me for going to the trouble of posting the exchanges.
So after more than nine months, have you made any progress with a refund?
Cheers, Warehare. I can see where you are coming from. Godus had a lot of promise, heck, the art direction is beautiful and inspired, but by structuring the game around microtransactions it was ruined. As such, I feel that it was misrepresented in the kickstarter. Try Populous on gog.com and see how much better this game could have been without having to click on every damn abode every few minutes.
It's not going to be a popular comment because the internet does like to be angry (I was kind of disgusted by how badly Peter was treated recently), but from a purely personal point of view I am more than happy with this project. I have spent more time messing about with the alpha versions and the ios app (without paying any extra money) than I have with many finished games I have played and got a look at what happens behind the scenes (misteps and all) as well. I feel like I have had more than my money's worth from this project. Anything more is a bonus. Personally I have no interest in multiplayer so the new direction isn't too interesting to me but we shall see.
Just to be clear. I'm not saying other people shouldn't be angry. I get why people would be and I won't try and stop anyone, but I just wanted to say that there are backers out there who don't feel cheated. It can't hurt to put a positive comment out there every now and again. I'm still interested in what comes out of 22cans next.
I'm not sure if people are doing anything more, but I thought I should say that commenting here asking for a refund isn't going to get anywhere. 22cans haven't replied here in over four months ( https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/22cans/comments ). Even direct contact with 22cans hasn't yielded anything as far as I am aware.
I can understand people voicing their unhappiness here, I just thought I'd say that if you are serious about getting a refund, then asking here for a refund wont be enough.
Guys just admit GODUS is a total flop and we as your investors/backers should be heard & acknowledged not brushed aside like common consumers without all of us this game WOULDN'T have happened!
@ Johan Munkestam
While I am in no way for it, "To force it via your credit card company is tantamount to fraud." to some one fraud to refund from another is called justice.
@ Johan Munkestam
It seems very much that Consumer Laws support it. And personally, I didn't force it, I put in a request with my arguments and they made the decision.
My previous post ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ) went into some more of my reasoning, Including specifically the issue of class actions suits.
As for the use of the word 'fraud', how is talking about 'class action suits' silly, but saying 'fraud' is okay? How is it even fraudulent?
Be dis appointed, be upset, be angry, pledge to never buy a game again or support another Kickstarter - but talking about class action suits and refunds in this case is silly. There is no support for it. To force it via your credit card company is tantamount to fraud.
I think 'class action suit' is a misunderstanding of how a refund would likely be obtained. Ideally, 22cans would have engaged to resolve the issue, but since that hasn't happened, some people are talking about taking matters to the next level, which I think is generally the next option when a company refuses to discuss it. But I think it would be very unlikely to manifest as a 'class action suit'. I think that's more of a general term that people seem to use. Also, I'm not sure how many people will actually go ahead with anything more, but I see no harm in talking about it.
I think at least some people have a different view of Kickstarter Projects than you do. That's not meant to be snarky or anything, it's just that the Comments here have talked a fair amount about what successfully funded Projects are required to do and it seems that the situation is rather in Backer's favour (here in the U.K. at least). I get that quite a few people have a more relaxed attitude to Backing, but in the case of Godus, I think the Comments here highlight a lot of the issues, which tipped the balance to wanting a refund. So I don't think it's ridiculous.
Slightly more specifically though, personally, it wasn't that I dreamed up a game: 22cans came here and described something that is now very different. On top of that, it seems that it was known that the game would be very different from that described, as that's the way Peter Molyneux works. But this, and many other issues, weren't talked about during the Campaign.
The complaining and talk about class action suits is ridiculous. The game was not what you dreamed up but you really cannot with any legitimacy say that the creators did not make a bona-fide attempt to fulfill the original promise.
I am not a fan of the game and also expected something else, but I did not pre-order a almost finished game which was then maliciously changed at the last second, I funded the developement of a game which sounded promising. And I got to play that game, even if it did not live up to my interpretation of the promises.
I've just heard back: The Chargeback was sucessful.
@ Larry Barriere
What you say are a *few* things that have been happening very recently. I can't speak for everyone, but there are the many, many other issues over the past 26 months that people are very unhappy with. And I think they are the reasons why people are asking for a refund. Since those requests have been refused or denied or ignored, then people are talking about other options to try and still get their money back.
class action? Refund?
They've been posting daily updates (if you join the opt in updates). The next main line update is this week if i recall. They're adding story lines to the game as well as the combat, currently.
I want a refund. That lacking, I would be happy to join a class-action.
< curses> Correction...
"The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by."
No problem. I've become pretty interested in the inner workings of Kickstarter and trying to figure out exactly what it is. As in, is it a still essentially a sale of goods or service, the same as anything else, albeit with a later delivery date. I found the link from Toby Heagerty very interesting.
Aside from that, yes, it does seem as though a lot has been withheld/exaggerated. if some of the things known now had come out during the Campaign, then I think it would have turned out very differently.
For my part, I've still not heard anything back from 22cans. The Chargeback plan has a wrinkle, in that I'm not sure if the concept of '120 days after finding out there is a problem', is seen as starting from the failed delivery date, which was 17 months ago. It's not exactly clear. But then again, the delivery date is *very* much understood to be an estimate, not a guarantee ( https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use… ). So I don't know if that falls into a loophole, or inconsistent advice, or... I have no idea. I'm awaiting some more information, but I may submit the claim and let someone who makes the *actual* decision just decide.
@ Toby Heagerty
Really interesting link. Thanks for that. And thanks to Mindless as well.
Courtesy of Mindless from the Godus ProBoards! The only impartial Godus forum which allows free speech.
Gamasutra: Understanding Your Kickstarter Liabilities
Here is something interesting that's just popped up. Taking a look directly at the difficulties in legal interpretation of kickstarter rules, the law as it stands, with everything framed around the peter molyneux and godus situation as a case in point.
The article author (Dan Rogers, who is licenced to practice law in the state of california, and the eastern federal district court) looks at the following topics of interest:
DETERMINING GIFTS AND PURCHASES
BACKERS ARE NOT INVESTORS
MISSING THE TARGET
CONSUMERS AND INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS
NO SHELTER IN A STORM
Most of his topics lead onto other linked articles (refer to the citations at the bottom of the page)
As a backer of a game in Peter Molyneuxs' experience I love seeing a new update with a team of unknown working to scramble in Peter's wake. Given that refunds are not allowed, and given that i supported the project in hopes if really having a working game, I hope this team has the dedication to push forward and design exactly what we want on the PC.