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GODUS is a delightful reinvention of the god game from 22cans and Peter Molyneux, who created the genre. Mac, PC, Mobile iOS & Android
Created by

22cans

17,184 backers pledged £526,563 to help bring this project to life.

Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!

    1. Creator Allan MacKenzie-Graham 1 day ago

      refund please

    2. Creator Phil 4 days ago

      This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    3. Creator Avalanche 5 days ago

      @ Johan Munkestam

      It seems very much that Consumer Laws support it. And personally, I didn't force it, I put in a request with my arguments and they made the decision.

      My previous post ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ) went into some more of my reasoning, Including specifically the issue of class actions suits.

      As for the use of the word 'fraud', how is talking about 'class action suits' silly, but saying 'fraud' is okay? How is it even fraudulent?

    4. Creator Johan Munkestam 6 days ago

      Be dis appointed, be upset, be angry, pledge to never buy a game again or support another Kickstarter - but talking about class action suits and refunds in this case is silly. There is no support for it. To force it via your credit card company is tantamount to fraud.

    5. Creator Avalanche 6 days ago

      @ Christoph

      I think 'class action suit' is a misunderstanding of how a refund would likely be obtained. Ideally, 22cans would have engaged to resolve the issue, but since that hasn't happened, some people are talking about taking matters to the next level, which I think is generally the next option when a company refuses to discuss it. But I think it would be very unlikely to manifest as a 'class action suit'. I think that's more of a general term that people seem to use. Also, I'm not sure how many people will actually go ahead with anything more, but I see no harm in talking about it.

      I think at least some people have a different view of Kickstarter Projects than you do. That's not meant to be snarky or anything, it's just that the Comments here have talked a fair amount about what successfully funded Projects are required to do and it seems that the situation is rather in Backer's favour (here in the U.K. at least). I get that quite a few people have a more relaxed attitude to Backing, but in the case of Godus, I think the Comments here highlight a lot of the issues, which tipped the balance to wanting a refund. So I don't think it's ridiculous.

      Slightly more specifically though, personally, it wasn't that I dreamed up a game: 22cans came here and described something that is now very different. On top of that, it seems that it was known that the game would be very different from that described, as that's the way Peter Molyneux works. But this, and many other issues, weren't talked about during the Campaign.

    6. Creator Christoph 7 days ago

      The complaining and talk about class action suits is ridiculous. The game was not what you dreamed up but you really cannot with any legitimacy say that the creators did not make a bona-fide attempt to fulfill the original promise.

      I am not a fan of the game and also expected something else, but I did not pre-order a almost finished game which was then maliciously changed at the last second, I funded the developement of a game which sounded promising. And I got to play that game, even if it did not live up to my interpretation of the promises.

    7. Creator Avalanche on March 23

      I've just heard back: The Chargeback was sucessful.

    8. Creator Avalanche on March 18

      @ Larry Barriere

      What you say are a *few* things that have been happening very recently. I can't speak for everyone, but there are the many, many other issues over the past 26 months that people are very unhappy with. And I think they are the reasons why people are asking for a refund. Since those requests have been refused or denied or ignored, then people are talking about other options to try and still get their money back.

    9. Creator Larry Barriere on March 16

      class action? Refund?
      They've been posting daily updates (if you join the opt in updates). The next main line update is this week if i recall. They're adding story lines to the game as well as the combat, currently.

    10. Creator Allan MacKenzie-Graham on March 10

      I want a refund. That lacking, I would be happy to join a class-action.

    11. Creator Avalanche on March 10

      < curses> Correction...

      @ John A

      Not the first time I've done this, but the Terms of Use in effect at the time Godus was *funded* were/are https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012#fundraising_and_commerce , which states:

      "The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by."

      Same principle, with regard to estimates, as the new Terms of Use, but I have to stop doing that. The current Terms of Use don't apply to older Campaigns.

    12. Creator Avalanche on March 10

      @ John A

      No problem. I've become pretty interested in the inner workings of Kickstarter and trying to figure out exactly what it is. As in, is it a still essentially a sale of goods or service, the same as anything else, albeit with a later delivery date. I found the link from Toby Heagerty very interesting.

      Aside from that, yes, it does seem as though a lot has been withheld/exaggerated. if some of the things known now had come out during the Campaign, then I think it would have turned out very differently.

      For my part, I've still not heard anything back from 22cans. The Chargeback plan has a wrinkle, in that I'm not sure if the concept of '120 days after finding out there is a problem', is seen as starting from the failed delivery date, which was 17 months ago. It's not exactly clear. But then again, the delivery date is *very* much understood to be an estimate, not a guarantee ( https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use… ). So I don't know if that falls into a loophole, or inconsistent advice, or... I have no idea. I'm awaiting some more information, but I may submit the claim and let someone who makes the *actual* decision just decide.

      @ Toby Heagerty

      Really interesting link. Thanks for that. And thanks to Mindless as well.

    13. Creator Toby Heagerty on March 10

      Courtesy of Mindless from the Godus ProBoards! The only impartial Godus forum which allows free speech.

      Gamasutra: Understanding Your Kickstarter Liabilities
      Here is something interesting that's just popped up. Taking a look directly at the difficulties in legal interpretation of kickstarter rules, the law as it stands, with everything framed around the peter molyneux and godus situation as a case in point.

      The article author (Dan Rogers, who is licenced to practice law in the state of california, and the eastern federal district court) looks at the following topics of interest:

      KICKSTARTER REWARDS
      KICKSTARTER PLEDGES
      GIFTS
      DETERMINING GIFTS AND PURCHASES
      BACKERS ARE NOT INVESTORS
      DANGEROUS WORDS
      KICKSTARTER LIABILITIES
      GOVERNMENT ACTION
      CONSUMER ACTION
      MISSING THE TARGET
      PUFFERY
      CONSUMERS AND INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS
      NO SHELTER IN A STORM

      Most of his topics lead onto other linked articles (refer to the citations at the bottom of the page)

      http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DanRogers/20150309/238279/Understanding_Your_Kickstarter_Liabilities.php

    14. Creator Ben on March 9

      As a backer of a game in Peter Molyneuxs' experience I love seeing a new update with a team of unknown working to scramble in Peter's wake. Given that refunds are not allowed, and given that i supported the project in hopes if really having a working game, I hope this team has the dedication to push forward and design exactly what we want on the PC.

    15. Creator JLL on March 9

      Still looking forward to it ! Keep up the good work, don't give up !
      And yes, I'd rather you guys take your time and deliver a finished, polished and fun to play product rather than rush it and call it a day just to meet some deadlines.

    16. Creator John A on March 8

      @Avalanche that makes for interesting reading, appreciate the info.... There are certainly points where 22cans have not been entirely honest ( licenses for mobile versions, for example ), it's just a shame the backers forum is no longer there, though the cynical part of me thinks that's deliberate.

      FWIW, I've replied back pointing out that their ability to offer a refund isn't dependant on the state of the game, and that the recent interviews would indicate that they haven't done right by any of us.... Back to waiting for a reply....

    17. Creator Avalanche on March 2

      @ John A (and All really)

      In my humble opinion, a summary of the Misrepresentation Act 1967 seems to very much apply:

      http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/misrepresentation-act-1967

      It includes "entering into a contract", which a Kickstarter very much is (first paragraph of https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012#fundraising_and_commerce ).

      I cannot say what 22cans have *actually* done, but there are provisions in the Act that include:

      "A fraudulent misrepresentation occurs when someone makes a statement that -
      - they know is untrue, or,
      - they make without believing it is true, or,
      - they make recklessly"

      Ultimately, I would encourage everyone to read and make up their own minds, but *I* think there is a very good case to be made against 22cans. I commented on some things earlier, with respect to the Risks and Challenges section:

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments…

      But I feel that even just saying the game would be done in 9 months, but now reiterating in the reply you received, that "the average development for video games can last for up to 4 years" ties in with what Peter Molyneux has said he's known for *years*: that the game had no chance at being made in 9 months.

      I would also add, that it's not that they *can't* offer a refund, it's that they don't *want* to. It's not as if their hands are tied or anything, They just don't want to give the money back. My view is, that whatever 22cans *intend* to do is immaterial, as what they have *already* done is there for all to see and decide.

      Anyway, thanks for keeping us updated. I've still heard nothing back, so I'm putting together the details to claim a Chargeback. Ultimately the Card Issuer decides all of this. I'll keep people updated.

      (U.K. advice for getting a Chargeback: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/how-do-i-use-chargeback I did it once for Elite Dangerous and succeeded. Chargeback also applies to Debit Cards and is available in the U.S, but things can vary. I think it's worth looking at local laws, one's card issuer and the like, to see if the money can be claimed back. If one wishes to do so, obviously.)

    18. Creator John A on March 2

      No one will be surprised, but my request for a refund has been denied:

      Unfortunately, we can't offer a refund as Godus is very much still in development. We understand that you're unhappy with Godus how it currently stands, but we're aiming to improve on this over the next coming months by implementing Combat and Multiplayer, as well as meeting our Kickstarter rewards.

      We also understand that Godus has been in development for over 2 years which may seem like a very long time, but the average development for video games can last for up to 4 years. We must ask for your continued patience and support during this lengthy development.

      Kind regards,

      The 22cans Team

      Looks like we must wait for another couple of years before they call it day and admit it's a failure....

    19. Creator John A on March 1

      @Jared - Nope, nothing. I'm sure the excuse is that all will be provided once the game is officially released, but considering how long it's been in development, and there doesn't appear to be an end in sight, the chances of that happening are fairly remote.

      FWIW, I've had no response from 22cans via their ticketing system after two weeks and mulitple updates, nor Twitter. They're either ignoring me because I've quite plainly asked for a refund, or their support mechanism really does suck.

    20. Creator Jared on February 26

      So no one received any codes for any of those 4 dlc yet? Im not the only one? No one has their unlock codes for any of these?

      1.Prophecised Acorn
      2. unlock code for an exclusive GODUS god power.
      3.exclusive Godus Wishing Well
      4.Art Book

    21. Creator Avalanche on February 25

      @ John A [ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ]

      Ah, yes, that explains some things. I looked at their support pages a little while ago, but didn't notice that it had jumped domains to Zendesk. I would say a good idea to screen shot everything. Often the way with these things is that leaving a company to get around to dealing with a request/complaint, just leads to some tickets getting closed and then being 'pruned', or 'tidied', or some removals due to 'transferring support requests to a different format' or some such. Whereas they are in reality inconvenient and just deleted.

      @ Sam Van Tilburgh (and John A)

      I've still not heard anything from my second request. The first was the Copy and Paste ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ), but since that in no way answered my question, they've now gone silent. Like you said John A, they're hoping they can just ignore it. They may well claim lack of communication resources, but I'm going with them just hoping it will go away.

      I think I'll go the route of a Chargeback ( http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/how-do-i-use-chargeback ). My credit card people dealt with it regarding Elite Dangerous in about a week, with no problems. And that was over Christmas, but that's not an option for everyone, Then I'll still contact Trading Standards if successful.

      @ Jared

      Rewards are completely up in the air as far as I'm concerned. I tried to find the interview where Peter Molyneux is asked if all rewards will be fufilled and he replies by saying they'll certainly try, but I can't find it. He was pushed, but still didn't commit. It could be many months before each specific Reward is officially cancelled, but my guess is, as more time passes the Rewards will just be left to fade, with nothing more said. Of course, each Reward could be met, one by one, but I doubt that will happen.

      (Kickstarter is playing up at the moment, so I've no idea if this will post.)

    22. Creator John A on February 25

      @Sam wouldn't hold your breath, I opened a support ticket two weeks ago today, and it's still sat there, untouched. Think they're hoping if they ignore such requests long enough, they'll go away.

    23. Creator Sam Van Tilburgh on February 25

      Still waiting for a reply on my email to support regarding a refund.

    24. Creator Jared on February 24

      The whole point of the acorn was a DLC that Peter promised because he previously broke promises about acorns. If he breaks a promise about this one... He lied about the Fable acorn!

    25. Creator Akram Shehadi on February 24

      Good luck with that Jared.
      Most likely you'll never get those rewards. This is a scam and I don't think 22cans staff even reads these comments anymore. Just read comments at any point in the time and check it out for yourself.

    26. Creator Jared on February 24

      Hello, what is the status of these rewards I am missing?
      1.Prophecised Acorn
      2.Art Book
      3.exclusive Godus Wishing Well
      4.unlock code for an exclusive GODUS god power.

    27. Creator John A on February 21

      @Avalanche - Indeed, they're using Zendesk, a web based help desk system. I suppose the only advantage, is that everything is recorded, and they can't claim something has gone astray ( though it wouldn't prevent them deleting tickets; a reason why I've been screen shooting everything.... ). I've given them until Wednesday to respond, which is two weeks after I opened the ticket. After that, I'll be progressing things via CAB / Trading Standards....

    28. Creator Avalanche on February 20

      @ Shawn Jones [ from https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ]

      Yeah, no apologies necessary. The domain thing was just a bit weird for me and I didn't want people going to the wrong place :o)

      @ OJ Stone [ from https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ]

      I think I get that people see Kickstarter differently to others, but I do wish there was a shift away from seeing Projects in such a manner as yourself. That's not meant to be rude, it's just that in the depths of Kickstarter is a contract and I really don't think that it involves, in *any* way; 'giving money away'; being a 'venture' or another word that often crops up; 'investment'. That isn't what Kickstarter is. It *is* a commonly held view though and kind of the promoted atmosphere. I wish the reality of what happens underneath was more apparent. A contract is formed and seems very much to be enforceable, but is hidden until things go wrong. Sometimes it remains hidden even *after* things go wrong.

      That aside, in *no* way am I saying you must therefore be upset or annoyed :o) Just that, if a game hypes itself, but doesn't deliver what it said it would, then the contract is broken. Again, though, a fair number (a huge number?) of people don't see it that way.

      @ John A

      So no word back to you from 22cans direct.

      I replied to the Copy and Paste I included below [ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus/comments… ], but so far have had nothing further back. Next I'll try community@22cans.com and support@22cans.com and see where that gets me.

      Just curious: is opening a ticket different to emailing 22cans? Like a web based thing or...?

      @ Larry Barriere

      Yeah... that *is* hopeful ;oP

      Seriously, I'd like it to be so, but the problem I have is *everything* else.

      @ Anyone who may be interested :o)

      Some very useful information can be found here: http://pastebin.com/UHsBKjgY

    29. Creator Larry Barriere on February 20

      they've been posting live streams on twitch of development on Godus. Sounds like there was a huge shift and it's getting back on track for the PC version. here's hoping!

    30. Creator John A on February 20

      @Avalanche / Sydena - Interesting that you received a reply via KS, the support ticket I opened on 22cans is still sat there without a response. I've just updated it, again re-iterating my request for a full refund.

      FWIW, I find it quite insulting that "Peter" seems to be quite proud of the mobile he's inflicted on everyone, bearing in mind that it's as far from the promised version as it's possible to get....

    31. Creator Phil on February 19

      Yeah Peter has really shifted the paradigm with such classics as the entirely mediocre Fable, the over hyped Black & White, who can forget the ground breaking The Movies? He made 3 decent games along time ago and since then has done nothing but have overblown ideas and make promises that he doesn't bother to fulfil. This time, instead of disappointing a publisher with his failure to do the job he said he'd do, he's done it with our money.

      If there hadn't been a back lash the last few weeks, Godus would have been wound down. I'm still skeptical that any of the promised progress will actually happen.

    32. Creator Jason Chipperfield on February 19

      @OJ - if by "paradigm shifting games" you mean using the money supplied by Kickstarter backers to fund the development of free-to-play mobile games, that's a shift in paradigm I can live without.

    33. Creator OJ Stone on February 18

      As a Godus backer I just wanted to say I am not that upset or annoyed at how Godus hasn't meet its hyped up expectations. While it's a little disappointing, I was always aware that giving money away to a venture carries risk of it not turning out the way that is hoped. I hope Peter Molneux hasn't given up on making paradigm shifting games.

    34. Creator Shawn Jones on February 18

      @Avalanche yes, sorry about that. I actually realised my mistake today and came back to correct it. Its a Proboards platform, but the domain is boards. net which is a bit confusing. Thanks for catching and correcting that though.

    35. Creator Avalanche on February 17

      @ Shawn Jones

      http://godus.proboards.com in not found (for me at least), but a search on ProBoards gives a link to http://godus.boards.net/ , which a different domain, but says it's hosted by ProBoards. Not sure why it's a different domain, but is that one you meant?

    36. Creator Shawn Jones on February 16

      Those of you interested should join us in the godus.proboards.com forum; it's a site set up by original Backers, free from 22Cans moderation, where we could unite as a community and discuss all things Godus and 22Cans (and gaming in general). Kickstarter comment section isn't really set up well to foster discussions.

    37. Creator Avalanche on February 16

      Jim Sterling's The Jimquisition:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch…

    38. Creator Phil on February 16

      Yeah, a generic email copied and pasted, almost definitely not written by Peter, isn't a personal reply.

      Even if it was from him, he's a pathological liar and I don't believe a word he says.

    39. Creator Sydena on February 16

      I recommend this reading regarding how to pursue a legal refund if 22cans doesn't provide it to your satisfaction.
      http://pastebin.com/UHsBKjgY

    40. Creator Avalanche on February 16

      @ Sydena

      Which is interesting, as I recieved the following reply to *my* request for a refund:

      "I am replying personally to your request for refund of £15 on the Supporter pledge.

      We at 22cans are as devoted and passionate about growing Godus into the great god game experience that was backed on Kickstarter as ever. Our plan, which perhaps might have seemed somewhat unclear and miscommunicated at times, has never wavered and has always continued along the path as follows:

      - Run Kickstarter campaign for the PC, Mac, iOS and Android versions (with a Linux as a stretch goal)
      - Develop the Steam Early Access version to roughly 40% of the finished game
      - Switch development to Mobile version; release on iOS first then Android platforms
      - Shift resources back to the Steam version and move Godus from roughly 40% to 100% by
      - Focusing on a full and intriguing story, that is unlocked within the world
      - Adding amazing combat which allows your humble followers to go to war, with support of you and your all-powerful god powers.
      - Developing unique Multiplayer
      - Fulfilling all Kickstarter pledges including ‘Making Of’ documentary, ‘Making Of’ book, in-game achievements and other items such as the in-game statues

      The following team are currently working daily on Godus in order to shape it into the game that you backed. This team will be doing daily blogs which can be found here: http://www.22cans.com/latest-news/

      Pavle
      Richard
      Konrad
      Martin
      Conor
      Dave
      Andy

      As Creative Director and Founder of the studio, I’ll be continuing to oversee the development every step of the way, but the most of the day to day decision making and overall progress will be handled by the talented team listed above.

      Below is a list of achievements and facts we have accomplished since the end of the kickstarted campaign in December 2012.

      Development
      - There has been roughly 120,000 man-hours of development time - That’s roughly 3,000 times through all the Game of Thrones episodes so far!
      - Our staff count reached 27 team members at one point - The team currently sits at 24
      - Godus has been in continuous full time development time for 2 years 2 months and counting
      - We have 3TB of footage captured for the Making Of documentary, which is being edited together.

      Steam
      - Users have played over 6.5 million hours on Steam
      - Over 12 million Steam sessions logged
      - One steam user has played Godus for over 347 hours!
      - There’s been 207 updated builds successfully delivered to Steam

      Mobile and Tablet
      - We’ve rocketed past a 250,000,000 play sessions on mobile - That’s a quarter of a billion!
      - Over 41 million hours have been spent crafting lands and keeping the Astari at bay on mobile platforms
      - Godus has been the No. 1 downloaded game on the App Store in 36 countries
      -Included in Apple’s App Store - Best of 2014

      Social Media
      - 57 community video updates released and watched by 5.25 million people
      - Our Support team has tackled thousands of support tickets and there has been over 57,000 replies between customers and support in the last six months.

      I understand any disappointments and frustrations you may have with the progress at this stage but I ask that you continue to support Godus, 22cans and the future developments of the team over the coming months as we strive towards the goals we originally set.

      We are continuing to develop Godus into an experience that, we feel, is in line with what the community is expecting from us. Our exciting new Story Mode will arrive on PC this week via a Steam update and the focus of our development is now shifting on to Combat which we aim to deliver in early April.

      If you’d like to know more and see what happens behind the scenes, you can keep a track of our weekly progress with our regularly updated news and development blog at http://www.22cans.com/latest-news/

      Finally, as one of our Kickstarter backers, we’d love to invite you to come to 22cans, giving you the chance to meet the team contributing to the future of Godus & the company. If you have time and would like to take us up on our offer please email - community@22cans.com
      - so that we can start the ball rolling and organise a time that suits everyone. It would be great to meet you!

      Peter Molyneux"

      @ 22cans

      A Copy and Paste, is *not* a personal reply.

      Also, you didn't answer the question about a refund! Well, indirectly, you actually did. You're not going to give them, are you? At least not yet.

      My view of 22cans drops a little further.

    41. Creator Sydena on February 16

      Recieved after 2 KS messages asking for a refund:
      "I am replying personally to your request for refund of £20 on the Believer pledge.

      We at 22cans are as devoted and passionate about growing Godus into the great god game experience that was backed on Kickstarter as ever. Our plan, which perhaps might have seemed somewhat unclear and miscommunicated at times, has never wavered and has always continued along the path as follows:

      - Run Kickstarter campaign for the PC, Mac, iOS and Android versions (with a Linux as a stretch goal)
      - Develop the Steam Early Access version to roughly 40% of the finished game
      - Switch development to Mobile version; release on iOS first then Android platforms
      - Shift resources back to the Steam version and move Godus from roughly 40% to 100% by
      - Focusing on a full and intriguing story, that is unlocked within the world
      - Adding amazing combat which allows your humble followers to go to war, with support of you and your all-powerful god powers.
      - Developing unique Multiplayer
      - Fulfilling all Kickstarter pledges including ‘Making Of’ documentary, ‘Making Of’ book, in-game achievements and other items such as the in-game statues

      The following team are currently working daily on Godus in order to shape it into the game that you backed. This team will be doing daily blogs which can be found here: http://www.22cans.com/latest-news/

      - Pavle
      - Richard
      - Konrad
      - Martin
      - Conor
      - Dave
      - Andy

      As Creative Director and Founder of the studio, I’ll be continuing to oversee the development every step of the way, but the most of the day to day decision making and overall progress will be handled by the talented team listed above.

      Below is a list of achievements and facts we have accomplished since the end of the kickstarted campaign in December 2012.

      Development
      - There has been roughly 120,000 man-hours of development time - That’s roughly 3,000 times through all the Game of Thrones episodes so far!
      - Our staff count reached 27 team members at one point - The team currently sits at 24
      - Godus has been in continuous full time development time for 2 years 2 months and counting
      - We have 3TB of footage captured for the Making Of documentary, which is being edited together.

      Steam
      - Users have played over 6.5 million hours on Steam
      - Over 12 million Steam sessions logged
      - One steam user has played Godus for over 347 hours!
      - There’s been 207 updated builds successfully delivered to Steam

      Mobile and Tablet
      - We’ve rocketed past a 250,000,000 play sessions on mobile - That’s a quarter of a billion!
      - Over 41 million hours have been spent crafting lands and keeping the Astari at bay on mobile platforms
      - Godus has been the No. 1 downloaded game on the App Store in 36 countries
      -Included in Apple’s App Store - Best of 2014

      Social Media
      - 57 community video updates released and watched by 5.25 million people
      - Our Support team has tackled thousands of support tickets and there has been over 57,000 replies between customers and support in the last six months.

      I understand any disappointments and frustrations you may have with the progress at this stage but I ask that you continue to support Godus, 22cans and the future developments of the team over the coming months as we strive towards the goals we originally set.

      We are continuing to develop Godus into an experience that, we feel, is in line with what the community is expecting from us. Our exciting new Story Mode will arrive on PC this week via a Steam update and the focus of our development is now shifting on to Combat which we aim to deliver in early April.

      If you’d like to know more and see what happens behind the scenes, you can keep a track of our weekly progress with our regularly updated news and development blog at http://www.22cans.com/latest-news/

      Finally, as one of our Kickstarter backers, we’d love to invite you to come to 22cans, giving you the chance to meet the team contributing to the future of Godus & the company. If you have time and would like to take us up on our offer please email - community@22cans.com
      - so that we can start the ball rolling and organise a time that suits everyone. It would be great to meet you!

      Peter Molyneux"

    42. Creator AndiZ27582 on February 16

      well, if this doesn't deserve a refund, what does?

    43. Creator Phil on February 16

      Yep, PC game was added simply to get funding from us for them to develop a cash in mobile app (which according to Peter in various interviews is paying for itself now), thats what it seems at this point, the PC port was just something they invented to get more money in.

    44. Creator Chris Jukes on February 15

      Well I just clicked on here on the off-chance of some positive news and was simply astonished at the revelations in those latest articles. Quite saddening, to be honest.

      Interesting title for the new project - read it backwards and it starts with liar. I won't be touching that, or Godus (whatever state they finally abandon it in), with a barge pole. Too much of a sour taste.

    45. Creator Jason Chipperfield on February 14

      I paid for the development of "a delightful reinvention of the god game" on PC in the vein of Populous, Powermonger and Black & White with online multiplayer.

      Instead, MY money was used to fund a free-to-play mobile game strewn with paywalls to make Molyneux's wallet fatter.

      The term "genius" doesn't get bandied about for no reason. That term nowhere near hits the mark. "Liar", "Scammer", "Thief" seem more appropriate.

      Never again Molyneux. You've been caught in one too many lies. Give me my money back.

    46. Creator Avalanche on February 14

      Something that's been bugging me is Risks and Challenges.

      A lot of this post is a whole bunch of quotes at the end to try illustrate the point, but the short(er) version is that Peter Molyneux has talked a lot in recent interviews about having no idea how much money it takes to make a game; asking for less than was needed; about how he works; how going back decades his games get rewritten and take years; how inefficient he is, *but* none of this came up in the Risks and Challenges section of the Kickstarter Campaign. I don't know who put the Campaign page together, but the whole point of that section is to list/detail such things.

      I say all of this, as Peter Molyneux is talking about things that he's known for many, many years and for me, it can't work bother ways. He says that all the sort of things that have been going wrong are expected, even part of the/his process and yet, they weren't expected enough to put them in the very section where such information should have gone? And yet here we are now.

      It seems to me that the time and budget relied on everything going *perfectly* (maybe even better than perfectly, but that's another matter), even though Peter Molyneux now tells us that he's known for years and years that this is never the case.

      As examples, some of these things are a little out of context. It's not my intent to deceive, I just can't quote everything. The links are there to the full articles:

      From http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/molyneux-kickstarter-is-a-destructive-force-that-damaged-godus-1275205 :-
      - "Christ, we've only got 10 days to go and we've got to make £100,000, for f**k's sake, lets just say anything"
      - "I think what ends up happening, and what ended up happening with Godus, is that people get a view of what the game is going to be like from what you've said here [Kickstarter], and that view is quite often different from what the final game is."

      From http://kotaku.com/why-peter-molyneuxs-godus-is-such-a-disaster-1685539932 :-
      - "There are about 22 people here and the average salary is about $40,000. Do the math on how much that costs to run the studio for a month. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the $800,000 or so we raised on Kickstarter is only enough to take you a certain amount through development."
      - For Godus: "We thought it was gonna take nine months"
      - For the mobile version: "I thought naively that it was gonna take a few months"
      - "I would say I had more of a plan for Godus than almost any other game I've worked on."
      - "We take stuff out and put it in again. It's the way I work. It's the way it worked with Magic Carpet and Black & White and Syndicate. Dungeon Keeper took four years because we rewrote the game three times. It's ridiculous, I know, but this is the way I approach things. I know it's inefficient. I know it's frustrating for any backers looking at it and expecting the sort of game they imagined. But that's the way of it."

      From http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/13/peter-molyneux-interview-godus-reputation-kickstarter/ :-
      - "I have no idea how much money it costs to make a game..."
      - "...every single project I have done, I have been wrong about the times."
      - "Making a computer game that’s entertaining and that’s incredible and that’s amazing is almost impossible, it’s almost impossible to do."
      - From the Risks and Challenges "GODUS is going to be powerful, unique and rather wonderful..."
      - "You cannot unfortunately ask for the actual amount you need. Because you don’t really know."
      - "If you take the average salary for someone in the industry, which must be about £30k, that’s 22 people, multiplied by £30k, divided by 12. You work out how many months Kickstarter money gives us."
      - "I’ve admitted that I get dates wrong, I always have got dates wrong"
      - Regarding Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate: "They were all late."
      - "I paid to finish Dungeon Keeper at Electronic Arts"

      From http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/13/peter-molyneux-game-designer-interview-godus :-
      - "I very stupidly and naïvely didn’t build in enough contingency time into my predictions and I was 100% wrong." In a way, actually 175% wrong, with another 67-100% still predicted to be wrong. And maybe even extra wrongness beyond even that.
      - "That will be two to three years into development but that’s kind of what it takes when you do an original game."
      - With regard to seeking funding based on a short pitch video: “I say these ideas so passionately, people think that these are hard and fast promises. I truly believe them when I say them, but as you know, sometimes they don’t come to pass. They don’t come to pass because they’re too technically difficult, they don’t come to pass because maybe they don’t fit and people see this as being a promise”

      In fairness, the Risk and Challenges did say "...GODUS will be using new technology and that has to be tested and perfected."

      To me, the contradictions mean that running out of time was not just inevitable, but known in advance, which led to the cascade. The time was not enough and the neither was the money.

      As an aside, I wish the Rock, Paper, Shotgun interview had picked up on "They didn’t pay for a product. That’s not what Kickstarter... [interupted]", as I'd love to know what Peter Molyneux thinks Kickstarter is.

    47. Creator Avalanche on February 14

      @ Albert Soler

      From the Rock, Paper, Shotgun article, Peter Molyneux talks about people now working on Godus and The Trail. I was going to summarize, but I don't think I can, as I'm not really sure. I had written an over the top load of thoughts about that part, but no-one wants to read that. The point I was going to try to make with it though, was that it does appears as though not all 22 people (not that I think 22 people is the correct number now) are working on Godus, *but* it's also not just the two people that was initially reported. I think I can say that personnel allocation isn't as bad as was earlier claimed, which is good, but such information needs to be figured out from the middle of interviews and even then, I just end up with a vague idea.

      The odd person (like Andy) isn't listed at http://www.22cans.com/about-us/, but with new person Conner; one person learning the ropes on Maya; other seemingly new people (including one French person that Peter Molyneux didn't know the name of); and others who have left the company (so much for me not being able to give a summary), I cant help but shake the concern that maybe the reports of just two/three people working on Godus were true (in the http://kotaku.com/why-peter-molyneuxs-godus-is-such-a-disaster-1685539932 article he talks about almost giving up just before Christmas), with things only very recently been stepped up. To what extent I'm not sure.

      With nine months being the initial target for Godus, over 25 months later Peter Molyneux is now saying that it's going to be nine months, with a new team, but starting off with a broken game.

      Following on from that, it's interesting about maybe not needing 22 people. Ordinarily I would say that's definitely true. In my non experience [ :o) ] it does seem to be very common for people to have genuinely done what they need to do and so move on to the beginnings of the next project (like The Trail). The problem as I see it is, that the people moving on don't seem to have completed very much and, again, too many things seem to need fixing, as opposed to finishing.

      On top of all that, ultimately, there seem to be many such issues, which also have to be pieced together from interviews. But that's a whole other bunch of stuff.

      The whole process seems fundamentally flawed to me.

    48. Creator Kay Are Ulvestad on February 14

      I read the interview over a RPS. While certainly harsh, I thought it was a very interesting read, and actually, it put my one concern to rest: that 22cans would do a Double Fine and abandon the game in an unfinished state.
      -
      Here's my take on things: I don't have a large emotional investment in Godus. I supported it because I like the fundamental concept, and admire some of Peter's early work, which I admittedly pirated in my youth. I am not too bothered about the delays. They are not unexpected. What I do care about, is the end result. Once I have that, whether it is a finished game or an abandoned project, I will make up my mind about how I feel about it.
      -
      As it stands, it is a game which is deeply flawed, yet very interesting. The most fundamental part, sculpting to affect the conditions for your followers, I find very enjoyable. The manual resource collection by clicking on buildings is okay in the beginning, but terribly annoying later on. There are ways to fix this, and the other flaws the game currently has.
      -
      I think Godus has the potential to be something special, and look forward to seing it finished. Until then, I have plenty of other great games to play.

    49. Creator Phil on February 13

      They may as well finally make it a free to play microtransaction click fest on PC like they've meant to do from the start

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