Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
hahaha, glad to hear y'all are still alive!
Nick: "Matt don't post the screenshots, give me a another week I don't even have the postFX stack set up, hell they don't even have AA..."
Matt: "I'm Kaye West I do as I please. lalalalala" -User has left the channel
Got a few images are rendered in realtime in game from Sypheria/Matt on the forums.
I think the lesson learned is a thing called inertia. A small force applied over a long period can really accelerate an object in space. Think of that small force as negative PR/comments. A steady stream unaddressed/ countered by updates and information can lead to the whole project moving quickly toward unrecoverable negativity.
The updates here have put some brakes on that acceleration, and continued updates will eventually turn things around.
I will admit I wrote this effort off in late 2015 and promptly forgot about it. If I had not been doing some account clean-up, I would have never seen I did not get this delivered. Curiosity brought me back. To my surprise, the effort persists... so good for you!
I will now watch this more closely, and hope to see you cross the finish line with something. I encourage the updates to continue and let your transparency shift the negative momentum toward a more positive feel.
To your success... (raises a glass)
Thanks for the update Nick! Still looking forward to the game :)
There is no organized place with the info however in our next update we will be writing up as much as possible about what happened in the past and where we are going now. Expect it early December (we are waiting until we can include some footage of the game in its current state so you can actually see what we are talking about)
Where Can I find easy info about what happened last years. I really thought it was over. I really dont think it was a scam and I dont think you are a thief. In my opinion, because I was participating in alpha playing a bit and watched live feeds, I know you wanted to complete the game. Nevertheless, I am a bit disappointed and wanted to understand what is about to happen, so I would be able to join the dream again or forget it. Can you help me?
These comments are what we needed. I feel better about this, especially knowing that refunds will be offered in the future for those of us that do not like what the project has morphed into. Thank you for the clarity.
Nick - Thanks for being honest about what happened. It goes a long way. Let us know when you have something to show.
@Charles,Will do, Right now we are about a month away from having something to show, and once we reach that point there will be a lot more front end development meaning a lot more shiny things to show in updates. In addition to that i believe kickstarter gave me everyone emails so i will send out a few reminders that way for people who do not see kickstarter "update" emails.
I appreciate your understanding and patience, and its nice to see despite being frustrated with the journey people are still very interested in the destination.
I'm still very interested in the concept, particularly if its not about how many clicks you can make in 10 seconds kinda frantic action, but we shall see. A persistent RTS could be interesting if done correctly :)
And do try to reach out to backers if that is still possible when you do have stuff ready to show. I likely won't stop by that often so could easily miss it. Can't afford to spend much energy keeping tabs on a project i've thought dead for so long. I can understand the wanting not to communicate much if it would only stir the pot, but at the same time that in itself stirs the pot :(
Just let us know when you have something and then we can decide if we're still on board or if we want out money back when it comes time that either opportunity presents itself.
That said, I will be making a greater effort to be more active here in the comments in between updates.
In short, we will be introducing what we have, explaining why, and if a backer does not like it we will be offering them refunds out of profits(best we can do we don't have cash on hand to refund from right now). we do not want to force anyone to except something they had not originally signed up for. That's why i closed all forms of backing the moment havok went down because I knew i didn't know exactly what was going to happen.
For those who like the new project we will transfer as many of the rewards as possible and things that do not mesh or have significantly changes, for example the Strategy guides, we will come up with some alternatives for players.
we will also throw in a few more goodies to anyone who does transfer over as a bit of a added thank you.
I know the right thing to do would be this open and attentive to backers feelings, but honestly Charles, Its very draining and it seems like the best way to keep people from being pissed off is just not saying anything for now, letting them forget about the project and coming back when I have a something I can show or even better you can play. I know there are countless flaws in this logic but when I couldn't answer questions there is not much I can do.
i completely forgot about backing this project, nice to see i remembered it just in time for development to restart! :D
Hypothetically speaking how would it even work with backers and what they were going to get in NA if the game has moved over to a different IP and i would expect will in numerous ways be different and thus backer goodies, both paid for and unlocked stuff, simply won't be in the new game? I'll have to check things out when you guys actually release some info if i'm aware of the fact that is :)
And your comments this go around are much closer to what i would hope to see in interactions even if there is tension between backee and backer i think it will serve you well in future endeavors and allow folks to understand your frustration while at the same time speaking to their concerns. Everyone gets frustrated as obviously i just did despite having had given up on the project along time ago i still came in just to peak around and got....annoyed :( it happens.
Well i have not called you a thief, i simply pointed out that my money left my pocket into yours and i got nothing in return. Technical difference i know, but if i had called you a thief you'd know it :)
I knew it might not make it which is why for the most part i simply havn't thought about it but once in a while, and just passed by on a whim and got a lil riled by a few of the more recent posts i noticed :(
I'd prefer to get what i paid for, might i have to settle for something similarish? perhaps, but would still be a little bit of grrrr. We shall see. If i happen to notice something in the future that looks suspiciously similar to NA i'll have to take a look at the least :)
I fully respect you position and am not trying to defend myself just want to clarify a few possible miss understandings.
1, The tone in regards to the money is due to being endlessly told i am a thief, while myself and my team have put everything they had into this, betting the farm on it literally. I'm sure you can understand the frustration that would build when you are living on the edge of homelessness, having invested everything you have in something, and having other people telling you that you are a thief who is living the high life off there money. At no time am i ever ungrateful for the backing we have received, and if it was not for the backers i would have said "fuck it" a LONG time ago.
2, I stated very clearly the issue with the engine, it was not actually a Dud, the engine was decent, but the company stopped supporting it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_(game_engine) So there was nothing we could do we had to migrate to another engine or else the game wouldn't even run on Windows 10.
In closing I'm not sure how I could have done this in a more genuine way, the moment Havok stopped supporting there engine i closed all crowd funding because i knew my promises could not be met any more and I started to try to figure out other ways to get the product i promised to backers in there hands.
This means doing everything from working other jobs, selling assets, even taking on prototyping contracts for other publishers to keep the studio together to create this game.
Do I feel incredibly guilty and sorry for the way things have gone? -YES
Have I done everything Humanly possible to keep this project going? -YES
Do I avoid talking about problems until I have a solution? -YES
Am I ready to give up? -NO
Am I very tired of being called a thief? -YES
P.s. Analyze it logically
Why am I still here?
-I already have the kickstarter money, and i am not getting any more, i closed all methods of continued backing the moment Havok droped Vision.
-I have a real reason for why I can claim this project could have failed which fits within Kickstarters requires for claiming best efforts and calling a project dead.
-Your right, the NA IP is full of problems now because of all of the pissed off backers, so it really has minimal value now.
What do i get out of "stringing you along" if this really was just a scam?
Other then the endless stream of motivational and supportive comments.
I really like the tone of this second attempt to tell us we don't matter in a slightly nicer tone. So we pledged, $268,875 and are informed that we don't matter because, SUPPOSEDLY you guys and family have pledged $1,075,500 which somehow by the tone implies our financial support was meaningless and they didn't really need our money. That being the case it seems odd to have crowdfuned at all if we are truly that irrelevant.
I kinda accepted that my couple hundred bucks just jumped into someone's pocket and i got nothing out of the exchange, that's far easier to swallow then coming in here on a whim and see dev posts with very condescending tone. It was suggested that people have actually been playing within the last 6 months, funny i never got the memo that the servers were at any time up so to imply that we don't matter because hardly anyone, supposedly, have been playing. If you shut down the game server and then never tell the folks that have keys that the server is back up then guess what? They won't be trying to log in to play. I found that part rather condescending as well.
I'm trying not to care because honestly for quite some time now i havn't thought about NA but a couple times a year and then quickly tried to forget because it pisses me off. I also love that you guys, supposedly, have an NDA that will prevent you from telling us anything about the last few years since you essentially went dark.
So your going to release the game under a new IP and try to be sure that any new players that might be drawn to it due to, supposedly, $10,000,000 per year for 8 years on marketing. Wouldn't want to let them know how you treated the original fans/backers so obviously we don't matter.
So little is actually said its OBVIOUSLY hard to tell what is actually going on, but in bits in pieces it looks like our money got spent and then you found out the engine was a dud for what ever reason we arn't allowed to know and then went on to do otherwork so you could possibly use that work for the original project......thats rather confusing, are we supposedly going to ACTUALLY get NA or are we talking NA by another name, cus if so then i don't see how that could have been parallel work......yeah really not sure what to say. Apparently we don't matter because there are so few of us that bothered to try and make this happen, especially now that there's a sugar daddy in the equation that makes our paltry funding seem unnecessary. If it truly was that small an amount, based on supposed self funding i don't see why we were necessary in the first place.
THAT being said, if per chance it happens to be i dunno.....Babylon 5 themed i might see it in my heart to pretend this never happened. Sadly i doubt either of these things will come to pass.
Hopefully what ever you do end up putting out is sufficient to make some other folks happy.
Best of luck to you guys i suppose, because i still doubt I'll actually ever hear from NA the actual project we were promised. Because honestly offering something and then not delivering it OR delivering something that is seriously not even close to what you offered is rather shady and i'm not certain your position is as safe as you think IF enough people decided to band together and demand xyz, I'm not suggesting that just a random thought.
"Nick's writing skills aren't particularly the best. What he was trying to get at there is that the publisher is huge and we are working to merge our I.P. with them. If Star Trek merged with the NA universe negative PR from wouldn't matter due to the huge brand recognition of it's universe. Alternatively, the publisher is currently planning to allocate 10 million $ a year to marketing for the game for 8 years; this also would negate negative PR from a small handful of vocal players. "
Having a pre-update is great, an actual update will also be great....but pretty sure the damage is done.
I’d still like a refund.
In a few weeks, our NDA will finally be lifted!
While still won't be able to talk about everything that happened during the period that was covered by the NDA, we will finally be able to show everything we have and where we are going.
This means that we are working on a very lengthy update for Kickstarter and other places and what our plans are for the future!
While this will obviously not undo the time we have not been able to give updates, we are definitely going to be able to start giving them from now on again. This should include written ones, but perhaps also the live streams and videos that we used to do in the past.
We hope you will all like what you see in the mega update, we are truely still working as hard and as passionately on this project as we always have.
Scam, or poorly managed project.
Or poorly managed scam? Meh, we may never know.
Can't you discuss your NDA with your publisher, so that you can release SOMETHING ?
I played the Alpha, and saw that you had too much to throw away, so my hopes are still up.
But even Ubisoft seems to have weaker NDA than you guys have.
After all the wait, I hope you at least reserve us something like "lifetime premium" or "all Skins" (if these Systems are still planned) for all backers, because we definitely waited longer than the lifetime of a normal PC-Game.
ugh looks like we have scammed :(
Yea, I'm pretty sure after 3 1/2 years after the projected "delivery" date on this one, we can probably call this a bad investment on our parts.
I once again like to point out that we we all originally pledged our money for this game, we were shown videos, and awards, and were basically under the impression that the game just needed finishing touches and the "stretch goals".
As a matter of fact this was posted on the pledge page
"What's Left to Do:
Debugging and further optimizing/testing the server.
Continuing development of other features including the offline AI, the customization of Unit AI, and the advanced offline empire management.
Improving planet population management, trading and polishing up everything else."
yea... I didn't see restart the project under a new engine, get a funding partner, and all the other things that have transpired over the last 3 1/2 year. I pop in here about every 6 months or so just to see if anything has happened to bring us closer to the product we all invested in.... and every time I drop by it's the same old song and dance....
I’m done with this.
This has gone on long enough. NDA, no discussions about what is coming; you’ve left us all in the dark for years.
whats up with this?
We need an update this nda has gone on long enough
Still waiting... shame on you DEVS...
So no news and no keys ... Another Kickstarter project that went down the drain ...
@William Like we have posted before, we are currently working under NDA and are as such unable to show our work since our last update. We ARE planning on making a mega update for you all when that is lifted, however.
About the keys, you will be receiving new ones most likely, or we will be resending the old ones. We will put out mails and such at the time this happens!
@Matt: As above, I can't currently say because of the NDA, but we will get you up to date when we are able to talk about it.
@DS: We are certainly not dead, our entire team is busting our asses making this project a reality!
@Chris: We can't give you a breakdown of that specifically, but it has gone from anything like salaries to software licenses and hardware replacements.
I don't see a key on my account, unless you are talking about the installer that was an original setup.
We could use some kind of update, it has been 3 years late and most are being patient but we need something from you guys to keep the patients going.
Any update as to when it might be completed or had beta access?
Let hope th e project is not dead!!
Ugh typos but can't edit them ><
If you are a huge champion of transparency how about releasing a transparency reporting showing how you used every dollar we gave you?
We are not "Merging" with another IP at the moment, we are doing some prototype work for publisher which does involve another IP. at the moment nothing is final.
But we are using this time to not only cover salary's but develop in parallel. unfortunately due to the fact all the current prototypes involve images and characters that belong to another party we cannot show anything from the current state of the game. If we do move forwards with the other IP the changes to the core game-play would be minimal mostly just re skinning of lore and characters.
As i said tho, none of this is even close to final, for the moment we are just doing one off prototypes with this other group. As we are building the prototypes we are able to reuse almost everything done to advance development of Novus so encase that deal does not come to fruition we come out of it with a massive amount of progress on Novus. ~Nick
First, thanks for your response.
Second...um, what's the game called now? You're saying it's merging with another IP....did the game evolve into something else??
Only I am making a map editor. We have a very large team size now compared to what we had ever.
The map editor is part of helping to give players something to do when other players are not around. In an earlier post I spoke of how players would log on, see no other players online and nothing to do if no other players were online and log off. This gives content for players which helps keep them online until others also login. It also helps contribute to fights, strategy and massive explorable and unique hand-crafted space ass opposed to purely procedural.
We also use a iterative methodology, not waterfall.
Taitale, why? Why in your current state you guys are working on a traditional way? Trying to do a lot of stuff at once even without knowing what the players want and letting months pass without updates and feedback from players. “Map editor for dungeons and PvP arenas”? Really? Focus on the key features and what your market wants, you were also doing player’s character third person, come one! Don´t waste your time doing that! Focus on the RTS and MMORPG part, the fights, the strategy and the massive space. You guys really need to prioritize your features and literally begin again with an MVP.
I really hope you guys the best, but please, try not to work on a waterfall way.. Iterate..
I do most of the posts here, but I had Nick do one when someone brought up possibility of a lawsuit as obviously that's beyond what I should be commenting on.
I expected him to have a little bit more tact. What I think you're seeing there is his frustration; not specifically with Kickstarter backers but rather his overall frustration with the slow pace of the publisher and how that's affecting PR, our lives, and people badgering him for pay.
Nick's writing skills aren't particularly the best. What he was trying to get at there is that the publisher is huge and we are working to merge our I.P. with them. If Star Trek merged with the NA universe negative PR from wouldn't matter due to the huge brand recognition of it's universe. Alternatively, the publisher is currently planning to allocate 10 million $ a year to marketing for the game for 8 years; this also would negate negative PR from a small handful of vocal players.
That's not to say I don't care about the backers; I'm a huge champion here for transparency. However, as I understand it you wish to see what we are working on. All developers except for me are working on visual things which if shown would immediately be identifiable as to what I.P. we are working with and breach our NDA. I'm working on a map editor for dungeons and PvP arenas and I'll show it when it's complete. That said, once it's shown it will be another month before I have it integrated into the server and client and even begin working on something new that might be shown.
We are committed to the health of the game and fulfilling all pledges, we are just using third party help to do so. (The publishers I.P. is not Startrek)
Geez. It seems that wherever I go and check up on lost causes I see "Weresheep of Sin AKA Stefan" fighting the good fight against windmills. He's like the spectre of christmass past.
Me perosnally, I just see those unfinished projects in my backerlist as a memorial. Not worth the time and effort to cry about sunk time/money/good-will.
In my opinion it's probably best to do what the devs should've done about 2 years ago, before buttering in supposedly 80%+ of the current dev-funds. Around the time the engine turned out to be a dut. Cut costs and declare failure.
No shame in that. But backroom dealings with "some publisher" after basically receiveing funding for prototypeing resulting in a proof of concept at best, is not the way.
Probably best to now get those "good paying jobs" and cut ties. Maybe move on to fig, heared they are looking for new customers.
When push comes to shove, it will be the lawyers' and judge's job to assess if running out of money and financing the rest of the development up to now is "best efforts" - it will depend a whole lot on what has been done until now and how much money you put in since the money ran out (to be clear: I do not want to know) - and how responsibly you used the Kickstarter money.
One could also take a look at the campaign's front page and look at all the great promises that were made ... most of them have not been realized until today (at least as far as we are allowed to know) ... "best efforts"?
From all I care, pronounce this here dead because I believe it already is and has been for a long time. Further down you said (June 30):
" If we can't bring in a massive playerbase upon opening access than the game will be dead in the water."
If PR / the backers' opinions do no longer matter to you, declare the game dead because it WILL be dead in the water, even with the help of your mysterious partner company.
There are 2 options:
1, Continue as we are, quietly developing.
2, we state officially that the project has failed and stop working on it.
For the latter we need to make a full presentation to all our backers that we did our best effort to make it work. This would be incredibly easy to do the fact the kickstarter money ran out when we couldn't launch a Live alpha on the Vision engine and had to move over to Unity. That was 4 years ago I think now. Since then we have been funding this with our own money, so over the total life of the project since kickstarter about 80%+ of all funding came from the devs, friends, and family, if that’s not “best efforts” I have no idea what is.
We haven't officially stated the project as dead because we really do not want to give up on it. But it's not about trying to get good PR, that no longer really matters to us. If we cannot finish this game we would all close the door on this project and studio and find good paying jobs.
I don't care to sue; I just want them to give me my money back as I don't feel they deserve to have it. They failed to deliver. Time to return what you can and move on.
If you can't return our money, then stop with this nonsense and give us an actual update on the progress of the game. This NDA stuff is BS and won't help you when everyone that has given you money in good faith starts sullying your name. You treat the community with disrespect, they'll bring you down. You're not big enough to survive a bad reputation and that's what you're getting.
One note to Taitale. I have made a copy of this message on Read only media with a Date and time stamp Please do not try to administratively delete or edit this posting as I will have the original should it be required as a copy of communications both with Taitale stuidios and other backers should any form of Legal action proceed.
I ask this of the other backers. Not of the Taitale account. Do any of you think we should consider a class action filing against Taitale? Frankly I have been watching on the sidelines for a few years now giving what I feel is a fair degree of patience. Game development does not happen over night and I am not prone to rash action. I am not one to jump and scream " SUE THEM!" But the behavior of this group of developers begins to creep of unethical business practice if not fraud. We where given misrepresentations of their product that we where all sold. We have seen no meaningful attempt to deliver on promises of the original campaign or the product in some time. And that will violate a number of consumer protection acts in the United States alone. It is a simple fact that civil court is often the best way to air such disputes not chat boards. I would ask anyone who still on this board to consider this and respond constructively as I am not trying to start flaming back and forth.
In so far as anything else I would say to Taitale. Consult a lawyer as to your legal responsibility in what you have bound yourself to by conducting this campaign and process on kickstarter and through crowd funding. If you believe you are beyond legal liability that is incorrect. Understanding your liability clearly is as much a part of running a business as creating your product and servicing your customers. In so far as I can see from the outside looking in you do not seem to have a clear impression any one of those points so far however. My own displeasure with the situation may well color my judgment and I could entirely be wrong. I admit that certainly could be true. I do not however suspect that is the case at this time.
Best Regards and Good day
They were changed to access keys you can redeem on the taitale.com
You can find your keys by logging into taitale.com
So where steam keys sent out?