Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
@William Like we have posted before, we are currently working under NDA and are as such unable to show our work since our last update. We ARE planning on making a mega update for you all when that is lifted, however.
About the keys, you will be receiving new ones most likely, or we will be resending the old ones. We will put out mails and such at the time this happens!
@Matt: As above, I can't currently say because of the NDA, but we will get you up to date when we are able to talk about it.
@DS: We are certainly not dead, our entire team is busting our asses making this project a reality!
@Chris: We can't give you a breakdown of that specifically, but it has gone from anything like salaries to software licenses and hardware replacements.
I don't see a key on my account, unless you are talking about the installer that was an original setup.
We could use some kind of update, it has been 3 years late and most are being patient but we need something from you guys to keep the patients going.
Any update as to when it might be completed or had beta access?
Let hope th e project is not dead!!
Ugh typos but can't edit them ><
If you are a huge champion of transparency how about releasing a transparency reporting showing how you used every dollar we gave you?
We are not "Merging" with another IP at the moment, we are doing some prototype work for publisher which does involve another IP. at the moment nothing is final.
But we are using this time to not only cover salary's but develop in parallel. unfortunately due to the fact all the current prototypes involve images and characters that belong to another party we cannot show anything from the current state of the game. If we do move forwards with the other IP the changes to the core game-play would be minimal mostly just re skinning of lore and characters.
As i said tho, none of this is even close to final, for the moment we are just doing one off prototypes with this other group. As we are building the prototypes we are able to reuse almost everything done to advance development of Novus so encase that deal does not come to fruition we come out of it with a massive amount of progress on Novus. ~Nick
First, thanks for your response.
Second...um, what's the game called now? You're saying it's merging with another IP....did the game evolve into something else??
Only I am making a map editor. We have a very large team size now compared to what we had ever.
The map editor is part of helping to give players something to do when other players are not around. In an earlier post I spoke of how players would log on, see no other players online and nothing to do if no other players were online and log off. This gives content for players which helps keep them online until others also login. It also helps contribute to fights, strategy and massive explorable and unique hand-crafted space ass opposed to purely procedural.
We also use a iterative methodology, not waterfall.
Taitale, why? Why in your current state you guys are working on a traditional way? Trying to do a lot of stuff at once even without knowing what the players want and letting months pass without updates and feedback from players. “Map editor for dungeons and PvP arenas”? Really? Focus on the key features and what your market wants, you were also doing player’s character third person, come one! Don´t waste your time doing that! Focus on the RTS and MMORPG part, the fights, the strategy and the massive space. You guys really need to prioritize your features and literally begin again with an MVP.
I really hope you guys the best, but please, try not to work on a waterfall way.. Iterate..
I do most of the posts here, but I had Nick do one when someone brought up possibility of a lawsuit as obviously that's beyond what I should be commenting on.
I expected him to have a little bit more tact. What I think you're seeing there is his frustration; not specifically with Kickstarter backers but rather his overall frustration with the slow pace of the publisher and how that's affecting PR, our lives, and people badgering him for pay.
Nick's writing skills aren't particularly the best. What he was trying to get at there is that the publisher is huge and we are working to merge our I.P. with them. If Star Trek merged with the NA universe negative PR from wouldn't matter due to the huge brand recognition of it's universe. Alternatively, the publisher is currently planning to allocate 10 million $ a year to marketing for the game for 8 years; this also would negate negative PR from a small handful of vocal players.
That's not to say I don't care about the backers; I'm a huge champion here for transparency. However, as I understand it you wish to see what we are working on. All developers except for me are working on visual things which if shown would immediately be identifiable as to what I.P. we are working with and breach our NDA. I'm working on a map editor for dungeons and PvP arenas and I'll show it when it's complete. That said, once it's shown it will be another month before I have it integrated into the server and client and even begin working on something new that might be shown.
We are committed to the health of the game and fulfilling all pledges, we are just using third party help to do so. (The publishers I.P. is not Startrek)
Geez. It seems that wherever I go and check up on lost causes I see "Weresheep of Sin AKA Stefan" fighting the good fight against windmills. He's like the spectre of christmass past.
Me perosnally, I just see those unfinished projects in my backerlist as a memorial. Not worth the time and effort to cry about sunk time/money/good-will.
In my opinion it's probably best to do what the devs should've done about 2 years ago, before buttering in supposedly 80%+ of the current dev-funds. Around the time the engine turned out to be a dut. Cut costs and declare failure.
No shame in that. But backroom dealings with "some publisher" after basically receiveing funding for prototypeing resulting in a proof of concept at best, is not the way.
Probably best to now get those "good paying jobs" and cut ties. Maybe move on to fig, heared they are looking for new customers.
When push comes to shove, it will be the lawyers' and judge's job to assess if running out of money and financing the rest of the development up to now is "best efforts" - it will depend a whole lot on what has been done until now and how much money you put in since the money ran out (to be clear: I do not want to know) - and how responsibly you used the Kickstarter money.
One could also take a look at the campaign's front page and look at all the great promises that were made ... most of them have not been realized until today (at least as far as we are allowed to know) ... "best efforts"?
From all I care, pronounce this here dead because I believe it already is and has been for a long time. Further down you said (June 30):
" If we can't bring in a massive playerbase upon opening access than the game will be dead in the water."
If PR / the backers' opinions do no longer matter to you, declare the game dead because it WILL be dead in the water, even with the help of your mysterious partner company.
There are 2 options:
1, Continue as we are, quietly developing.
2, we state officially that the project has failed and stop working on it.
For the latter we need to make a full presentation to all our backers that we did our best effort to make it work. This would be incredibly easy to do the fact the kickstarter money ran out when we couldn't launch a Live alpha on the Vision engine and had to move over to Unity. That was 4 years ago I think now. Since then we have been funding this with our own money, so over the total life of the project since kickstarter about 80%+ of all funding came from the devs, friends, and family, if that’s not “best efforts” I have no idea what is.
We haven't officially stated the project as dead because we really do not want to give up on it. But it's not about trying to get good PR, that no longer really matters to us. If we cannot finish this game we would all close the door on this project and studio and find good paying jobs.
I don't care to sue; I just want them to give me my money back as I don't feel they deserve to have it. They failed to deliver. Time to return what you can and move on.
If you can't return our money, then stop with this nonsense and give us an actual update on the progress of the game. This NDA stuff is BS and won't help you when everyone that has given you money in good faith starts sullying your name. You treat the community with disrespect, they'll bring you down. You're not big enough to survive a bad reputation and that's what you're getting.
One note to Taitale. I have made a copy of this message on Read only media with a Date and time stamp Please do not try to administratively delete or edit this posting as I will have the original should it be required as a copy of communications both with Taitale stuidios and other backers should any form of Legal action proceed.
I ask this of the other backers. Not of the Taitale account. Do any of you think we should consider a class action filing against Taitale? Frankly I have been watching on the sidelines for a few years now giving what I feel is a fair degree of patience. Game development does not happen over night and I am not prone to rash action. I am not one to jump and scream " SUE THEM!" But the behavior of this group of developers begins to creep of unethical business practice if not fraud. We where given misrepresentations of their product that we where all sold. We have seen no meaningful attempt to deliver on promises of the original campaign or the product in some time. And that will violate a number of consumer protection acts in the United States alone. It is a simple fact that civil court is often the best way to air such disputes not chat boards. I would ask anyone who still on this board to consider this and respond constructively as I am not trying to start flaming back and forth.
In so far as anything else I would say to Taitale. Consult a lawyer as to your legal responsibility in what you have bound yourself to by conducting this campaign and process on kickstarter and through crowd funding. If you believe you are beyond legal liability that is incorrect. Understanding your liability clearly is as much a part of running a business as creating your product and servicing your customers. In so far as I can see from the outside looking in you do not seem to have a clear impression any one of those points so far however. My own displeasure with the situation may well color my judgment and I could entirely be wrong. I admit that certainly could be true. I do not however suspect that is the case at this time.
Best Regards and Good day
They were changed to access keys you can redeem on the taitale.com
You can find your keys by logging into taitale.com
So where steam keys sent out?
Almost everyone here is all-hands-on-deck working on the thing under NDA; I have something almost complete that isn't under the NDA although it's not glamorous. (I normally work on gameplay logic for the server or content creation tools)
I'll check with Nick to see if I can reveal it once it's done.
I would say this is another "Mandate", but at least we get the occasional communication.
I have entered into NDA's before.
There are ways of giving a status without giving a status.
Now...Lets be honest. The backers here...and I am going to be nice here and blunt as you seen to need it. Think at this time you are crooks and scum who have scammed us...and now walked away with money based of what we paid to help get off the ground. Now...I dont actually care about the getting money from other people.
What I care about is how me....and my fellow backers are treated...and whether we see a game that was promised.
I am a realistic guy..I have backed many games and have worked on dev projects many times. We need info.
Stop pandering, and be honest, we can smell the bullshit miles away.
I am fully ok understanding how mistakes or unrealistic goals happen. Don't lie...makes our opinion even worse....
The only thing Kickstarter requires for communication is that it is honest and we are 100% honest.
Kickstarter fully allows for entering into an NDA if it helps to complete the project.
The problem is ... that NDA seems to prohibit most meaningful communication, because I do not think Kickstarter was referring to talks about the weather.
Communication yes, but not regular updates. I am here and willing to communicate to the fullest extent allowed.
Understandably you are treading legal water with your NDA to whatever company you are dealing with. However, does kickstarter not constitute a contract between the project and backers where you use our money to deliver a project, and until that project (and promised pledges) are delivered, you are under obligation to provide the backers with regular updates?
Out of 4,000 access keys sent out less than 300 were activated in a year. Less than 150 accounts logged into the game even once during that time. A MMO's health, especially a sandbox one, relies heavily on having a large active playerbase. Peak users we're about 10 in the last 6 months.
It doesn't matter how excited we are or the players. If we can't bring in a massive playerbase upon opening access than the game will be dead in the water. Nobody wins in that case. This is something that the help of a large company can help solve.
We are still 100% independent and we make all decisions regarding the game itself.
In the MMO industry, forming a deal takes a substantial amount of time. Large companies move incredibly slow. The amount of time we've spent under NDA is very short in relative terms.
We will release a formal update only once we either take the deal or don't.
So ... an independent studio comes to Kickstarter, gets the game funded ... development starts/continues, there is an early game client and then ... silence.
Then very suddenly that game studio is no longer independent but has maneuvered itself into binding legal contracts that do not allow that studio to inform the people who kickstarted the game about any development of the game. The studio even failed to inform the backers about the fact that such a development was imminent or at least inform the backers in a timely manner in an update that such a development had happened.
We know know there is an NDA because Taitale is in negotiations with somebody ... or are the negotiations now finished and the resulting contract resulted in another NDA?
If the first ... pretty long negotiations ... as far as I can see, they started around January ... April 3 you called the NDA a temporary situation ... seems it has become permanent.
And I still think your backers deserve a formal update - not just blue comments here - about the situation, even if you cannot say anything about the development.
While we understand your frustration, it frustrates us as well, our hands are legally tied.
We are still under NDA and cannot give any additional information without breaching it.
If we were to breach it then we would lose our rights to the game, Taitale Studios would come under financial strain from legal action, the entire studio would shutdown and Novus Aeterno would never be released.
Well, thanks for the link, but I dont want to check dozens of forums or websites to stay up to date (in this case: "its progressing") regarding my backed projects. Would it hurt you to post such updates / information here on KS? The last update was in September 2016!!!!!
Please if you end this project, told it.... or make some comment..1year of no action its tooooooo long
Yeah, by now its just a bad joke - no update since September and some half-arsed Comments in the comments-section. I gave up waiting for the game - by now I'm only waiting for them to change the product so much, that I'm eligable for a refund by german law.
How about an estimate on the beta? Any information at this point would help...
3 years, guys, and no substantial updates in quite some time.
Are you sure you are not violating Kickstarter terms of service? As far as I know you are supposed to provide informative updates ...
@chavhunter we were making some changes on the server, which took the site down for a bit. Should be good now.
And about the NDA, sorry that I am not able to say more yet right this moment. All I can say that we are still working our collective assess off to get this game done to the best of our ability. We appreciate that you all want more information, and as soon as we are able to we will let you all know what's up and what our plans are.
It's been a month since the last statement on here. Can we at least get a time frame estimate of when the NDA lifts?
Yeah, so...what's up?
why is your website now down
No update since September last year, first mention of an NDA in January (I think) ... I would not easily call that a "temporary situation".
Really confused. There's an NDA on a project that has taken thousands from backers on a KS project. What is being done with said money can't even be discussed?
While I do have some faith that you are being as honest as you can be with us, I find this NDA quite disturbing. I realize it's temporary, but it's also just plain wrong to do this to your backers.
This should be a temporary situation, since we are not yet sure if we are actually going to be able to go ahead with them. (See the post on March 14th)
Once we know how we are able to proceed, we will let you know what's up and how we are moving forwards.
The main problem for me is that you have gone and are about to take / have already taken money from somebody who prohibits you from providing information to those people who gave you money in the first place ... and made this project even possible.
As we said before, your typical low budget MMO costs $5 million to develop. We are, however, not your typical MMO. Compared to traditional MMO development project, we have been (and will be) keeping our team small and lean. We are doing much more with the funds we have because we do not require office building(s) or a large amount of middle management, which saves a lot on the fund required, for example.
Because of the NDA we are currently still under, I can’t expand much on what we have already said about the backing we are hoping to secure. I can say that so far we have been happy about our cooperation, they have been giving us some good feedback, for example, which has already improved the game quite significantly.
I think that if we can make this happen, it will be good for everyone. Once the NDA lifts, we will be able to elaborate and show some more about this subject.
If you were aware, as you stated, that it could take a minimum of 5 million dollars to do an MMO then why on earth did you set the funding goal to $75,000? Even with the hopes of getting a MVP out, that is a huge disparity between the numbers. It sounds like this might be a management issue and those are something that can lead to the death of a project unless a publisher steps in and takes control. That of course goes against what most of us backed in the first place as we wanted to support a team's dream not a big corporation. I think I might side with the refund crowd at this point as I get the feeling this is in over it's head.
The physical rewards (and all the others) are not forgotten! We will ships them out after we have the game back on track and everything seems to go as we originally planned again.
We have been putting updates out to the public about the reasons for our delay, but if you would like to read more about the reason for our current radio silence, please check our comment from March 14th and the 13th, as it should contain the information you are looking for.