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The ultimate asymmetric cave-crawling adventure where you become the brave Knight, Goblin horde, massive Dragon, or malevolent Cave.
The ultimate asymmetric cave-crawling adventure where you become the brave Knight, Goblin horde, massive Dragon, malevolent Cave, or cunning Thief.
The ultimate asymmetric cave-crawling adventure where you become the brave Knight, Goblin horde, massive Dragon, malevolent Cave, or cunning Thief.
2,897 backers pledged $148,766 to help bring this project to life.

New CSR, Meeple Guide and PNP Promo Card Files


Hey all!

Sorry if we haven’t gotten to you yet if you’ve sent us emails and messages. As you can imagine, things are quite hectic here, ensuring all backers are getting their pledges shipped and getting to everyone’s messages and concerns. To help ensure we can respond to all of your messages, we’ve gotten Caryl from Quiche Games (hi!) to start handling responses and updates. If you haven’t heard from us yet, please be patient while we play catch up and we’ll be sure to get to you soon!

Regarding the promo cards that were available during Gencon: we understand how frustrating it can be that some people were able to obtain something that wasn’t available for backers during the kickstarter. We apologize for how it made some of you feel, since it was because of backers like you that we were able to see Vast become a reality for us. There’s absolutely no words for the amount of support we received during the campaign and it definitely wasn’t our intention to make any of you feel you were any less important than you are. Really, we want to thank every one of you who were part of the campaign. We’ve read your notes, your comments and your threads and we’ve noticed every single thing (big or small) that was said about us and our game and appreciate the passion you all have for the game and the time you’ve taken to say these things.

So for those of you who weren’t able to attend Gencon this year, we’ve made those promo cards available for download as a print and play on BGG here. (Please refer to the BGG pdf download for printing, the image below is purely for previewing purposes).

Vast: The Crystal Caverns - Silver Gauntlet and Trove Promo Cards
Vast: The Crystal Caverns - Silver Gauntlet and Trove Promo Cards

Once we can reprint actual production copies of the cards, we’ll have them available on the BGG store for purchase and will post an update once available!

We've also provided a Meeple Guide below to make referencing your components much easier!

Vast: The Crystal Caverns - Meeple Guide
Vast: The Crystal Caverns - Meeple Guide

As always, if there’s any questions or concerns, missing or damaged parts, email us at and we’ll get to you as soon as we can!


- Caryl, Leder Games CSR

Nico Durham, Patrick Leder, and 33 more people like this update.


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    1. Ken Washington
      on August 22, 2016

      Put me in the a little peeved category.

      How about getting it on Boss Monster promo's are fairly cheap on there.

    2. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on August 20, 2016

      @Rando: You are the one stirring the pot here by writing that really passive-aggressive comment, especially since what you took issue with has been explained by Patrick a million times.
      I agree with Randy Dysktra, and he's not condescending, but right.

    3. Rando Shields
      on August 19, 2016

      @randy dykstra excuse me sir but you are a condescending a$$hat. All you are doing is stirring the pot. 'Entitled' backers? If you don't understand why people are peeved Even after they explain then maybe YOU should Respect their point of view and let them vent.

    4. Rando Shields
      on August 19, 2016

      @Randy Dykstra how about you stop telling people how they should feel about a Kickstarter. People vote with their money on Kickstarter and some backers feel burned a bit. I will keep it civil but imagine what I won't type here - -
      So thanks for your input, Randy.

    5. Rando Shields
      on August 19, 2016

      @Patrick the game was shipped with very little packing material. The box is mildly damaged but the content is ok. I'm stoked to play the game.

    6. Unisus
      on August 19, 2016

      Ok, i have been in that update before (and it actually is the only one at least mentioning the possibility that there could be such a thing).

      In Update 24 we find one remark:
      "...we will look into a goody for convention visitors..."
      This doesn't necessarily translate into "there will be promo cards" for me.

      In the comment section, Patrick writes "...I would like to have a bonus card to hand out too, but i need to look at costs first..." - so the possibility is mentioned, but nothing concrete.

      Patrick's post was answered by JKP with "...Bonus card to hand out at GenCon? Bummer." which in turn was answered by Alan who spoke of the possibility that the promo could be availabe through other channels, namely BGG.

      The only other comment regarding the promo card (if you actually assumed there would be one) was by Erich L., who expressed the wish to be able to get a bonus card.

      Not to be a nitpicker, but for me that doesn't constitute that the promos have been brought up in previous updateS, or that there was a discussion where noone had a problem with them. Actually there was only one mentioning of the possibility of something for GenCon that could be a bonus card, and all comments regarding this possibility explicitely state that people wish to have those cards, if there would be any.

      I am writing this only because in the comments for this Update here people were repeatedly told that the promos were announced and nobody had a problem then, and that is not correct. Most people who only read the updates but not the comments never really heard about a bonus card. So they shouldn't be treated as if they just could have mentioned their concerns earlier.

    7. Missing avatar

      Randy Dykstra on August 19, 2016

      It was discussed in the comments section of that update.

    8. Missing avatar

      Randy Dykstra on August 19, 2016

      @Unisus, check out Update #24

    9. Unisus
      on August 19, 2016

      @Randy: While i am one of the "vocal minority" who were not amused about the promos (i'm totaly ok with the promos being available in a not so distant future, but it bugged me first that i seemingly would have nearly no chance to get them at all), i agree with most of what you said. But there is one point i saw several times in this discussion i don't know about - the upbringing of / discussion about promos in an earlier update. I tried to hunt that down, as i normally read the updates and don't remember such a thing, but i could not find anything substantial. Could you please tell me, where the promos were mentioned as such?

      As for selling the game at GenCon before the rewards arrived with the backers: it's not that unusual, as GenCon does not wait for the delays in the final shipping process, and it would just be stupid to skip GenCon. Also there never was a promise backers would get their game before anyone else (and even in KS drives that originally gave such a promise backers normally allow the creator to give their game the GenCon boost, especially if the creator did their best to deliver in time but was delayed by things out of their control).

    10. Missing avatar

      Randy Dykstra on August 19, 2016

      @Rando, please be less sarcastic and more respectful, it makes civilized discussions much easier. First of all, no one "took" your money, you voluntarily gave it. Secondly, shipping issues outside of Patrick's control caused you to receive your game after GenCon folks received theirs, and these have been well documented. Thirdly, promos are not designed to be an integral part of a game but rather are designed as a marketing tool -- that is, to get people who are not customers to become customers of a particular game. These were even brought up in an update and no one seemed bothered then by it. Everything that has been promised to backers according to the Kickstarter campaign is being delivered. It is unfair to expect a company to continue to give free items to those who feel entitled to it any time new items come out.

      Patrick has been getting a lot of flak here by an entitled vocal minority who apparently do not understand the risks involved in backing projects on Kickstarter nor do they understand the basics of marketing nor do they seem to understand or appreciate the amount of work involved in publishing a game and it is getting very frustrating to watch a decent guy receive this kind of unfair treatment. Even though he has done a great job involving the backers throughout the development of this game, communicating the status, hiccups and all, of everything as it has occurred, and delivering everything that has been expected, and works extra hard to market this game to new customers to ensure overwhelming success, I see him getting attacked because of shipping delays outside his control or 2 bonus cards that were not part of the Kickstarter campaign. And yet he still graciously responds to unfair accusations with a sincere tone and attempts to find a workable solution. I mean seriously, take a step back from your completionist idiosyncrasy for a moment to recognize a great publisher when you see one. Thanks Patrick.

    11. Patrick Leder 4-time creator
      on August 19, 2016

      Rando - I paid extra to shorten some timelines to get the game here on time to ship before Gencon. The depot made mistakes while loading the data and recalled all of the orders to be repacked without my fore knowledge. That put their next available time to ship the week after Gencon. I regret that happened and I have apologized.

      It would have been a pretty poor legacy for this campaign had I not gone to Gencon and been able to use the money form the sales there to work on my next project.

      I show that you got your game on the 16th did it arrive okay?

    12. Rando Shields
      on August 19, 2016

      Ok. Thanks for taking my money and then handing over the game to non backers first. I back a lot of kickstarters... This is a new one for me. Keep your promos.

    13. Kyle Woelfel on August 18, 2016

      @ionas - A printable PDF copy of that guide can be found at BGG, here:

    14. ionas on August 18, 2016

      Could you add… to the dropbox/google-drive as a high-res PDF to print out?

    15. ionas on August 18, 2016

      Btw. I love the alt wooden tokens! and acrylic gems!

    16. Joe Costa
      on August 18, 2016

      Thanks Patrick! I'm really excited to get my game!! And am glad you did the promos the way you did if it brought more attention to Vast and can possibly enable an expansion in the future. I get promos are a nice reward for people who make the effort and spend the money to go all the way out to gencon. I will keep an eye out for it on the BGG store or eBay if the store sells out. Keep up the good work Patrick!

    17. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on August 15, 2016

      @Ruinaes: As a matter of fact, I do think that there is a big difference between two promo cards being handed out to non-backers as opposed to, say, a full expansion or a whole deck of cards.
      If the latter had happened (which it didn't, and never would) I would be pissed off, too.

    18. Ruinaes on August 15, 2016


      Minor or major changes nothing, the statement is still just as true. I believe that many tabletop players will agree that it sticks out like a sore thumb to be without any portion of a game like this. When a game is massive, like Munchkin (which has abundant promos), individual cards don't irritate as much. This is a brand new game though without mountains of cards. I don't think it's the same.

    19. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on August 15, 2016

      I think having the promos in the next campaign would be a good idea for those that still want them (and the next game, of course) and I'm sure Patrick will at least consider it.

      @Ruinaes: "game mechanics they cannot play with" is a little over the top considering how little these two cards actually add...

    20. Ruinaes on August 14, 2016

      It is simple to understand why people are upset. As a backer, many people feel that they are doing everything they can to bring this game to life. When promos come out (not for an age-old game like Munchkin for example) this early and without any way for many backers to obtain them, it feels like an insult.

      Backer did all they could and yet there are game components/mechanics that they cannot play with. That's BS.

      Opening up the PnP is a great option by PL but I will be buying the real ones when available. I did not pay for awesome mechanics/artwork/components only to add some crap photocopy cards in with the nice stuff.

    21. Timothy Carr on August 14, 2016

      It should be noted I personally don't think we should've received them for free. They're promos, and for a reason. We're getting what we paid for, like others said (it's just unfortunate others have the game before us AND slightly more content). But I do believe that the people who made the game a reality should have easy access to either buy them, or get them for supporting the next Vast game or expansion. Kickstarter is hardly ever the best deal, and after the game becoming a reality stops being in question then the question is why back instead of waiting for a sale at retail? To make the game better, sure, but you could let others make it better for you. The draw then is the ability to get the most you can of the game in the easiest way possible. Kickstarter is a wonderful community of opportunity and I don't want to just shrug off how important that is, but there are subtle and important business considerations campaigns need to make with such things to keep that public wanting to actually back rather than wait. Thus, this backlash isn't a major blunder but should be learned from now rather than making a larger stumble later. Always keep your backer in mind, or they might not come back next time around (even for something as minor as two cards). That is not a threat. I'm actually not too annoyed. But I'm stating a fact of the business I've personally seen other campaigns struggle with in order to be informative. :)

    22. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on August 14, 2016

      @Unisus: I think you're vastly overestimating the effort publishers put into promos -- I don't think they are usually playtested or specifically balanced at all; it's just a few cards you can throw into your game or not.

      You're right about the updates, though -- I couldn't find a specific reference to the cards, just the promise that whoever comes to the booth at Gencon will receive some fun extras (in Update 23 or 24 or somewhere round there).
      I don't know where I read about the promo cards, probably boardgamegeek?

      @Ethan: Yup, I agree.

      @Grian: Again, the promos were certainly printed separately from the game (in the US, I think, not China), and at a later date, which is why they were not included in the Kickstarter edition, and it would have meant a significant expense for Leder Games to send them internationally at that point. Also, they were a Gencon promo, not a Kickstarter promo. You knew what you were backing for when you did, and these promos were not included in what you backed for.
      (And again,have a bit of perspective. It's TWO cards.)

    23. Ethan Furman
      on August 13, 2016

      How many other game companies send out promos /for free/ to everybody who has purchased their game?

      How many KS game companies send out promos /for free/ to all the backers when those promos were not part of the campaign?

      For that matter, how many other game companies make promos available /at all/ in /any way/ to those who did not make it to the promo-giving event?

    24. Grian the Rogue Rabid Squirrel Slayer
      on August 13, 2016

      I am freak'in pissed we didn't get these hard copy promos included into our games... This is in poor form and sending us a pnp version doesn't help one single bit. These promos were thought of during at least the post kickstarter and could have been easily included with every backers games. It's just so insensitive and uncaring... especially as we the backers funded this game completely!

      I will definitely think twice about backing any future games from you Patrick Leder unless of course you sent them out to us free of charge.

      Putting them on BGG for a fee isn't the best way to say thanks to all the backers who gave you money to fund your dream and then asking them to buy promos! Selling promotional items defeats the fundamental meaning of promotional... there to promote your game to help sell the game to others. Promos are suppose to be free hand outs not PnP!

      This is just so wrong and very disappointing to the core. If this is how your going to treat your backers in the future... you can count me out!

    25. Unisus
      on August 13, 2016

      @Charlotte: actually i don't remember any update that said there would be promos we would not get - maybe you could show me where that was mentioned?
      I always wonder why promos for games always have to be content - in that way, the promos always seem to be missing from the game. To be playable with the game, they have to be balanced against the normal content of the game, so it's not just two cards thrown in but two cards which took their time and thoughts. Investing ressources into such things and loosing sight of the people you are grateful to - that leaves a weird feeling.

    26. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on August 13, 2016

      Everyone, your version of the game is not in any way less fun now that you know some other people received two extra cards... (And yes, that was mentioned in an early update.)
      How can you have been entirely happy with what you would receive when you backed, but now that these two cards exist, you're suddenly not?

      Promos don't "complete" a product! They are always extras, and usually completely unnecessary ones on top. Nice to have, sure, but not necessary for complete enjoyment of the game.
      Vast is a complete game without those two cards.

    27. Timothy Carr on August 13, 2016

      I'm just one more person mildly annoyed at the promo.
      Mostly that it seems unsure we'll even be able to get it? (PnP doesn't count.) And it's now something I have to remember to check on. When I heard talk of promos, I guess I assumed it wouldn't be too hard to buy as backers. Not annoyed with having to buy it, as that's expected with such promos (granted the timing of them is unfortunate). "Value" is not the annoyance. It's the community helping to test, brainstorm, rename, and market the initial run of the game, then potentially never getting the chance to buy the "complete" product. Yes, it's mostly principle. Please take this as constructive criticism, and a possible learning experience.

    28. Kyle Welton on August 12, 2016

      I hope you plan on sending a LOT of promos to the BGG store, at least 2,897 of them...

    29. Krieg Bastion on August 12, 2016

      Awesome! Thanks for the meeple guide Patrick! And for offerimg to make the promos available later. I've never used the BGG store, but would it be possoble for backers to get an update notifying of their listing before they go live on the BGG store?

    30. Wesley Kinslow
      on August 12, 2016

      *I meant as long as they appear in the BGG Store - missing GenCon with a newborn this year has deeply affected me apparently hah

    31. Wesley Kinslow
      on August 12, 2016

      As long as they appear in the GenCon store and don't dry up immediately then I'll be happy - if the promos get to be exclusive that's when you have an unhappy customer. Thanks guys - the game in hand looks great!

    32. Brian Nors on August 12, 2016

      I back and buy games that I think looks cool and fun. Not cheap!
      Rewarding people that did not back this game, is a very bad signal to send to backers.
      Hope there will be plenty on BGG...

    33. Unisus
      on August 12, 2016

      I don't back games at KS to get them cheaper, as a Germany based completionist i back games that i like to get them complete, as it is nearly impossible to get the extra content of games from the US in my hands at reasonable effort. So yes, it bugs me, if there is promo content available even before i get the game in my hands that i probably never will be able to get.

    34. Cindy M on August 12, 2016

      I appreciate being able to buy off BGG later (although same with another commenter, I may not be able to grab it in time), but I REALLY appreciate you guys releasing it as a PnP for those who want to access it. Apparently the card backs on the promos (based on comments on BGG) aren't identical to the production copies, so it looks like people would have to sleeve the cards anyway in order to play with them blind.

      Either way, thanks Patrick & team for your consideration. I don't like convention promos but I understand the necessity of them at times, and having them be available for purchase later is a good compromise in my book.

    35. Blarghedy
      on August 12, 2016

      Why on earth are people whining about this? Having promos at gen con (and other cons) is really common. I'm not at all offended. I do wish I'd read the updates better to be aware of the promos, but that's on me.

    36. Missing avatar

      Randy Dykstra on August 12, 2016

      @ionas, "Why not make them abailable for a shipping fee of 1-2 usd? That be fair?"
      I don't understand what is unfair about backers getting exactly what they were promised from the original campaign. Unfair would be if a backer received something less than or more than what they originally were promised.

    37. Missing avatar

      Randy Dykstra on August 12, 2016

      I recall the discussion about the bonus card to hand out at GenCon in the Printing Update (update #24) and nobody seemed to have a problem with it then. The bonus card being handed out at GenCon wasn't really a surprise to me because it was talked about before and so I am a little surprised at the apoplectic reaction I am seeing all of a sudden by people who last week were happy they were getting everything they agreed to receive and now all of a sudden are very unhappy because they are not getting extra things for free. Am I getting what I backed? Yes. Would I like extra free stuff? Sure. Do I feel I am entitled to extra free stuff that wasn't in the original project I backed? No. It would have been a different story had the bonus cards been listed in the campaign as part of a Kickstarte exclusive or something and backers didn't receive them, but this is different.

      @Patrick, you are a good man to listen to everyone's complaints and try to find some compromise, but in the end, everyone is getting what they enthusiatically paid for. Anything extra you choose to generously give out is a nice gesture and I am happy for those recipients of that generosity.

      I look forward to receiving my game and hitting the table with it!

    38. Son Do
      on August 12, 2016

      I didn't back this game so I could get it CHEAPER!
      I backed it because I wanted to help your creation become reality.
      Thanks for rewarding your Gen Con customers. Don't worry about your original KS backers.
      I won't be buying the promo card on BGG.

    39. ionas on August 12, 2016

      Why not make them abailable for a shipping fee of 1-2 usd? That be fair?

    40. JKP
      on August 12, 2016

      FREE production quality promos <> PnP promos <> $$$ for production quality promos.

      I'll buy them on BGG.... IF they actually show up there and IF I can get them within the 5 minutes they will be in stock. BGG always runs out. Its a crap shoot I rarely win. So I doubt I'll be having them.

    41. Ethan Furman
      on August 12, 2016

      Thanks for the promos! I'm glad I was able to help make this game a reality, and I'm REALLY looking forward to your next one!

    42. @marcss
      on August 12, 2016

      I think this is just a case of unfortunate timing. It wouldn't be perceived as a big issue if the promo cards were being given out at a convention 6 months after everyone had already received their KS copies. (Well, not any bigger than people getting upset about convention promos in general, anyway.) It just stings that convention goers have a more exclusive version than the game than those who funded it through KS (and sooner than some of us.)

    43. Jon Hueing on August 12, 2016

      Convention promos aren't anything new and I'm happy they'll be available on BGG store.

    44. Unisus
      on August 12, 2016

      I still think you should have known before that it would not make your backers happy to get the game later than people not backing it and then not having all components those people got - even though the promos could easily have been sent with the rewards. That is the problem with making promos that are game components.

    45. Missing avatar

      Nam Phan
      on August 12, 2016

      How can one integrate the PNP cards into the game particularly if you're trying to draw it. This would only work if the whole game was PNP *sighs*

    46. Missing avatar

      Nam Phan
      on August 12, 2016

      I'm going to have to echo the negative sentiments of some of the other backers here about not including those promos in the KS edition itself. Not cool that we backers from elsewhere around the world don't get any appreciation for our contribution to the project. And now we're being told that we have to also pay for the promos! Not cool Very not cool!!

      And wait, the excuse is that you wanted to entice people to the booth, and to save money on shipping...? How does that work? It's two cards... They could have gone out with all the games without adding any extra shipping costs... How does paying for promo cards to give to non backers save money?

      I didn't notice any comment about the promo cards on previous updates either... Am I missing something?

    47. Shane (CoffeeGnerd)
      on August 12, 2016

      "Please also remember you received the game for 15 dollars less than the market."

      Nobody pays MSRP for games anymore. It will be less than $45 on CSI and MM in a few weeks. People pledged to support you, not for a great deal or for a special box sleeve.

      I don't think we're entitled to promo cards, but I also don't think you should dismiss those people who are upset about missing out (I'm not one of them) with "well you paid less".

    48. Jacob
      on August 12, 2016

      No problem. Am excited about the game and am looking forward to getting it.

    49. Andrew S on August 12, 2016

      Was about to suggest/attempt myself on BGG that the game needed a pieces guide. This version is better than I would have done, so thanks

      I only just found the cave-in meeples!

    50. C. Aaron Kreader on August 12, 2016

      Oh! Ty ty ty! That meeple guide for components is golden. Everyone who is yet to get the game should print that out and place it in the box when it comes. Will help a lot as you set up the game.