by Mike Nystul
[...] — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers."
Also: "When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward."
And: "The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers."
As soon as you accept money for the promise of goods or services, it's 100% a business thing. Read up on contract law; what you excerpted from KS's FAQ is irrelevant, and the FTC - you know, the Federal Trade Commission - is starting to go after fraud like this for a reason. If Mike wanted us to support him in return for (next to) nothing, he shouldn't have promised anything in exchange for our money - try gofundme instead.
@Thomas: That might be what you see it as, but Kickstarter itself seems to disagree. Check out the 'What is Kickstarter?' link at the bottom of the page (and probably the rest, too. It pays to be as informed as possible when throwing money at the screen).
"Kickstarter is a new way to fund creative projects." "Backers are supporting projects to help them come to life, not to profit financially. Instead, project creators offer rewards to thank backers for their support. Backers of an effort to make a book or film, for example, often get a copy of the finished work." "It’s supporting their dream to create something that they want to see exist in the world."
It's far from a business thing. The only thing separating Kickstarter from those other sites is that this one is explicitly about projects. You can't run a kickstarter to directly fund your swim with dolphins or athlete hangout, but somebody could totally say 'I want to write a book about swimming with dolphins, and part of that money is going to pay for the swim.'
Sean L. Kickstarter isn't about supporting a dream. Kickstarter is about backing a project that someone has thought of but doesn't have the funds to complete, yes in a way you can consider that a dream but in the end you are essentially paying money for a pre-order for a product. This isn't a well I HOPE this project will succeed and I have blank money to waste on giving to some random person. This is a business transaction.
If it was about donating to dreams then I should just create some false project to support my dream of not having to work and scam money from people like so many are doing on kickstarter now.
Also there are plenty of other websites about donating money to help peoples actual dreams(swimming with dolphins, meeting favorite sports person, etc). Kickstarter was and is a business thing.
For the sake of all of your backers, I hope that this revised "buckle down and do it" plan works better than the past 3 years of the same thing. Not that we have much choice - KS won't refund us and you allegedly can't.
Delivering is what I am trying to do. Saying "just deliver" is simple. Doing so means I have to have a plan to do so. I can't think of a plan better than "buckle down and do it" That is the plan as stated. I can't offer a refund. I have no money and no resources. Yes, I have said that I had trouble producing usable product after working a full time job - which is why I changed my circumstances specifically so I "can" work in the time to actually get this done. If these are empty promises and excuses there is no point to discussing any of this. If we are actually discussing the possibility that this is in fact what I plan to do to do to resolve this issue if you have any suggestions for better ways for me to do that I would love to hear them.
"The ashcan I sent out was a "Chapter Zero" of an intended series. So for an "Infinite Dungeon" it was a campaign guide and no actual dungeon."
You mean that ashcan? Sorry, that doesn't cut it. You're right, in all fairness that isn't nothing. It's still nowhere near what the campaign was for.
A better plan would be delivering what you offered and what we all paid for. Second best would be a complete refund. What you suggest is what we've already been doing: waiting for you to deliver a product while continuing to make empty promises and excuses. I understand that you have to pay your bills, but when you've already admitted (and demonstrated) you can't produce material after hours, how is this a plan?
The backers have had a fully playable and useful ashcan for some time now. I know it isn't what was expected which is why i haven't given up but "nothing" is inaccurate.
I have to work somehow to pay my bills. Those "other projects" are essentially my job - freelancing is a job where i can set my own hours so that i can make the room to work on this and get it to you.
If you have a better plan I am open to suggestions.
$16k and 3 years later, and the backers still have nothing. Your plan is to "probably" publish on a weekly basis fragments of what was promised in 2012, meaning that we have to continue to wait while you attempt to raise MORE money to complete this. All this after you've already admitted you've gone to work on other projects and are unable to produce material after hours.
If you think this is a viable plan, I can see why all three of your Kickstarters failed.
I like Pathfinder more than 5e, but 5e isn't bad.
Thanks for the update, Mike, and best of luck with this new plan!
Personally, I'd suggest against a pay what you want system, both to improve the chance of it actually making money and to avoid 'short-changing' those who already backed it, but that does make things complicated once stuff is getting re-released. I'm sure you'll find a good solution!
I agree with your comments Mike, Kickstarter is about supporting a dream, and less so about getting "stuff".
That being said, no one likes to feel like they have been short changed, but people should realize life doesn't always turn out the way it is planned.
Please ignore the rude comments, as I am sure you have done your best, and have regretted many times the over reach of the projects.
Do I wish I had the money back? Sure!
Am I missing a meal because I backed this? No! And no one who really is hard pressed to find the money to back a Kickstarter should be backing one.
Have I spent more money on other things I don't even use anymore? Of course! (Looking at my 4th edition books now that 5th edition is out. At leadt one I never actually used.)
Ultimately, I wish you the best, and it is unfortunate that things did not work out. I am happy with anything that results from the future. I don't wish you any ill will, and I certainly don't wish the sort of harsh results others have posted.
I appreciate that you continue to do your best to even support the projects after everything that has happened.
Life should be about learning from your mistakes, and I am sure backing a failed Kickstarter is not the biggest mistake these people have made.
Happy to do it - I still have access to my books and ran it fr a couple years so should be all set.
I'd like to see some Pathfinder support please.
Pathfinder it is : )
I'd like to see, in decending order of preference:
A) Everything I'm supposed to get from backing at $100
B) My $100 back
C) You in prison
D) Your crap plan using Pathfinder rules