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Contribute to help give the V20 Companion the same leather bound, embossed, silver edged, full color, deluxe treatment as V20.
Contribute to help give the V20 Companion the same leather bound, embossed, silver edged, full color, deluxe treatment as V20.
1,134 backers pledged $96,326 to help bring this project to life.

Six Hours to Gooooo. And some questions for YOU.

Just amazing! Thank you so much to everybody who has backed this project so far! Justin and I are thrilled that we'll be able to put our baby into some deluxe wrappings, and that so many folks were able to get into the spirit of Kickstarter and jump in and comment and get involved.

Since we haven't done this before, we think the next step after the deadline is reached this afternoon will be to send all our backers a survey to get all your info including your names for the credits and shipping addresses and all that. It'll be late Friday here on the US East coast, and then we have a weekend full of St. Patty's Day hijinks, so don't expect our next steps to happen until next week. Behind the scenes, we also have to confirm with the printer all the details of the print order, and lay out and proof the book to include the Example of Play names and enlarged Credits Pages, etc. More updates on that process will be posted as they occur, either here or on our blogs, or both. You can follow updates on #V20 on Twitter as well.

Finally, we'd like to hear how this whole Kickstarter thing feels to you folks, especially fans of VtM who are perhaps more used to the old methods of getting your hands on our books. Assuming that this is how we'd offer the only traditionally printed versions of our upcoming products, would you support Kickstarters for Children of the Revolution and Hunters Hunted 2? Would you want them to be designed to match V20 like this one for the V20 Companion is, or have deluxe features that suit each individual project? How about a KS for Werewolf 20th Edition, or would you prefer to order it with Grand Masquerade tickets like we did with V20?

Any responses to these questions will be helpful- you know we're listening to you.

Thank you again- see you at the finish line!


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    1. Missing avatar

      Robert Buckey on March 21, 2012

      Matthew Koelling 2 days ago

      "Werewolf 20th Edition on Kickstarter, yes please!"


    2. Jussi Myllyluoma
      on March 20, 2012

      But there is really nothing to prevent WW from doing a combo, is there?
      For my own part, I'm more interested in the possibility of a Kickstarter-special V20' (vee-twenty-prime -- separate from the limited, exclusive collectable 2011 V20) than a W20, but at the moment, that's neither here nor there -- just discussing the KS-vs-DriveThru production/publication formats for the moment:
      Just to get one thing squared away first, I've come to understand that WW has now officially abandoned any ambition to actually publish the books themselves; they will focus on producing them, and then publish them through other avenues, such as DriveThru. I assume however that the Kickstarter productions are an exception of some sort; I don't see these going through DriveThru, however, I may be mistaken.
      Anyway -- doing a KS/Preorder combo: Let's for the sake of argument say that WW launches a 60-day Kickstarter for an all-new Deluxe V20' Core book tomorrow, shipping in September. Kickstarter backers get the book for e.g. $70, and the Kickstarter closes in May.
      After that, if the project is funded, the limited preorder period starts. Preorder buyers get the book for e.g. $95, and the preorder closes in August.
      The total print run of the Deluxe V20' Core book is then Kickstarter copies + Preorder copies, all shipping at the same time.
      The difference with doing it this way as opposed to just an ordinary preorder is that WW gets to gauge the market and actually secure funding for the book _before_ committing to a preorder, and with the Kickstarter format, overfunding at different levels can open for additional content being included into the final product, as funds allow -- again, determined and secured before committing to the preorder.
      Furthermore, the community can be engaged into the actual production of the book in an entirely different way than is the case with conventional preorders, through discussions and polls here on these pages, through pledge levels that invite backers to contribute content, and so on, and so forth.
      I can hardly imagine a better win-win!

    3. Teylen on March 19, 2012

      I would assume that installing a new webshop would not be such a big issue.
      Also it might be possible to negotiate with DriveThruRPG for a preorder solution.
      On of the issues I see with promoting Werewolf 20th via Kickstarter is that Kickstarter-Projects got a very limited time in which they are active. I haven't seen any Kickstarter-Project which had a time frame beyond two month. The V20 was, iirc, availabel for pre-order for about 4 month.

      Another issues is that the possibilities of orders seems to be rather limited. Which will make the formation of "buyer groups" way more difficult. It would require seventy mailaddresses / accounts to do a collective order of 170 books like the V20 Europe Buyer Group did. With the uncertainty of where the dollar curs will be at the day the Kickstarter ends.

      I do approve of Kickstarter-Projects for smaller books, like HH2 or CotR, but I do think that the Werewolf 20th Deluxe Version deserves as well as requires a better way of distribution as Kickstarter can provide.

      About the figures of buyers, I do think that the potential of acquiring new fans as well as to activate existing Fans hasn't been fully addressed. 1134 Accounts might seem impressive, but there were like more than threethousand Fans who attended the Grand Masquerade (and probably got a deluxe copy of V20). Even more who did just a normal order. So I assume that not all of those fans have been addressed (or could be convinced).

    4. Matthew Koelling
      on March 19, 2012

      Werewolf 20th Edition on Kickstarter, yes please!

    5. Andrea Miotti on March 19, 2012

      I would love a kickstarter project for werewolf 20th edition especially because I don't live in the US and this would be the best way for me to get this amazing book

    6. Taylor Wright on March 18, 2012

      I would prefer something like KickStarter for W20 opposed to linking it to the Grand Masquerade. It's easy to share and get buzz with sites like KS, but I wouldn't have known to look at the GM because it's geographically unfeasible for me to attend.

      I'm happy to hear the project is getting funded, I really hope you guys give a little leeway on unlocking the annotated version of the book.

    7. Beachfox
      on March 18, 2012

      I would -love- a Kickstarter for Werewolf V20, please. This is so much easier for a net head like me. Just... Some form of advertising for it. I'd totally missed the original Vampire V20.

    8. Missing avatar

      archklown on March 17, 2012

      V20 Mind's Eye Theater GO!

    9. Nikki Buskell on March 17, 2012

      So, I posted this on update #9 and it had some positive responses back me up, but this was probably where it should go...

      "It would be really cool that when asked for our name or character name, we're able to list the clan as well. That way the names can be listed by clan and mean a little more than just a long list. Please, I am begging you to do that."

    10. Morten Kjærgaard Tellefsen on March 17, 2012

      Actually my only criticism about the project is that most of the Danes I know found out all too late that there was a V20 project going and they wish they had the chance to get one. So more advertising, please.

      A funny note - Danes love your games - but we rarely use all the rules. We have more fokus on roleplaying situations and less on dice. But we love the setting material you make!

    11. Morten Kjærgaard Tellefsen on March 17, 2012

      I am a teacher at the Danish School of Roleplaying (might actually be the only one in the world), and I love the Vampire v20, and all the fuss it made, since me and my students could have a good argument about what was best - new or old (kind of like the whole 3.5 vs 4.0 D&D discussion).

      Bottomline is - I am teaching my students old-school Wraith the Oblivion, because it is the most complex game in WOD, and because it is seriously a great game. But alas our old books are worn and torn - I so wish you would make a Kickstarter project to see if we could do a v20 version of Wraith. I know the game is to complex for most people, so it's hard to make money on it - but with Kickstarter you could see if it could at least fly?

      Do it! For the sake of my students - For they must be taught in the ancient art of Wraith the Oblivion! (and for me because I really want a complete collection of all the old WoD books in black leather!)

    12. Missing avatar

      McKinley Shaw on March 17, 2012

      I would love to see a WtA in W20 format! First played VtM with my family, but Werewolf was where I first really started my obsession with WoD gaming

    13. Christopher Merrill on March 17, 2012

      I would very much be on board for sponsoring a Hunter's Hunted 2 and (doubly for) Werewolf 20th. I'm a sucker for leather bound but don't have then means to travel and so was disheartened to not be able to get the leather bound 20th edition of V:tM. V:tM and W:tA where two of the game I (and my gaming group) played more often than any other. The Storyteller System and V:tM lent themselves to true role-playing session and not roll-playing.

    14. Missing avatar

      Kris on March 17, 2012

      As Jussi has said, a kickstarter for a second run of V20 Deluxe would be lovely for those of us who where unable to purchase a copy of the leather bound beauty. It would also seem to be fairly low risk: if there is not enough interest, it doesn't get done. No harm, no foul, and you put it out their for those of us who missed out on it. I know I am grossly simplifying the process, as I am sure it would take quite a bit of doing, but I, for one, would greatly appreciate another chance at this. I know I can't be the only one with a little bit of tax rebate money that I am burning to throw White Wolf's way.

    15. Missing avatar

      Kira on March 16, 2012

      Shipping, I forgot to write about shipping. Us folks on th edge on the world would greatly, greatly appreciate if there was a choice on how the books gets shipped - like on the DrivethruRPG site, which lets people choose courier service (DHL and all). I added the extra money hoping it would be possible, because using Russian mail service for international delivery equals at least a month or two of crossing your fingers and hoping mysterious creatures don't eat your package. And sometimes, they do.

    16. Jussi Myllyluoma
      on March 16, 2012

      "...could order a [DL] V20 by regular orders from the WW shop." This then, I understand, was back in the days when there actually *was* a WW shop? I have got the impression that this has now been dismantled, all in favour of electronic and PoD distribution only.
      No leather bound, silver gilded, satin bookmarked editions through that channel, I believe...
      But I have also got the impression that this Kickstarter campaign has to some degree managed to boost the ranks for VtM, in both new and, above all, returning followers. Not all who have pledged for this project have bought VtM books before, I am sure. Nor have all backers bought any new VtM books for many years, this much is evident even in these comments. Such is the power of Kickstarter.
      By necessity, all of these people must have been unaware of GM at the time, and hence unable to take part in the V20DL promotion. But I am sure there are several beside myself who still would appreciate the opportunity to own a V20 core book to match this fancy DL Companion.

    17. Arthur "Torakhan" Dreese on March 16, 2012

      I would also mention that had it not been for the $200 "use your face as a reference" option, I wouldn't have necessarily gone for the Deluxe V20 Companion. It really was the pledge bonus that encouraged me to put money towards this. Just of note, $52125 was pledged above the base $70 (the basic level to get the Deluxe book) mark, and that doesn't include the $895 pledged that was below that $50 mark, meaning that half of the people were willing to pledge higher for extra stuff.
      Personally, the V20 Companion was pretty low on my RADAR. I may have only purchased the PDF, but the chance to be drawn in a White Wolf book was too much to pass up.
      ... of course, my reason for purchasing the V20 Deluxe (Grand Masquerade) edition last year was to ensure that the Werewolf: 20th Anniversary book was green-lit, so the honesty of my support for V20 could be considered "shady", or "with ulterior motives" at best. *chuckle*
      So, including pledges will likely increase the necessary bottom-line for producing a book, and encourage folks to want to get involved, it may have less to do with the book itself in some ways, but more to do with being "a part of a company/group they've loved for many years." It doesn't mean that this shouldn't be used more often, but it's something to take into account before using KickStarter for every project under the sun. :)

    18. Missing avatar

      Steve Ellis
      on March 16, 2012

      If you did a big, luxury corebook in the future (W20 or M20), then a slip case for it as a higher level KS pledge would be fantastic.

    19. Bigboy on March 16, 2012

      For me Kickstarter was a great idea, and i hope there will be other project with it !

      And there is a small project that a would like to see : it's a V20 Storytellers Screen or a deluxe Storytellers Screen.
      It's not a big deal, but it will be an amazing goodie !!!

    20. Jennifer Fuss
      on March 16, 2012

      What's the uhm nonsense about that the V20 Deluxe was only availabel for those who bought a GM ticket?
      International VtM Fans like me, and many other, could order a regular leather bound, silver gilded, satin bookmarked V20 by regular orders from the WW shop.
      The only V20 version available exclusivly at the GM, for which one had to travel, was the GM-Edition (as the name tells). Which is basically the same Deluxe-V20 as the one distributed by the shipments, only diffrence was a variant cover embossing (and autographs if one took the effort).

    21. John Kelley on March 16, 2012

      I'd like to see a KickStart for new MET laws of... books. a new . Laws of the Wild would be a huge help

    22. Warrick on March 16, 2012

      Would love to see Werewolf get the same treatment as V20 did, that would be great, I know a few friends who would sell their arm's for Werewolf to come out.

    23. Renato Nunes Cosentino on March 16, 2012

      Put me on the line for a Werewolf 20th Edition, and I know at least 10 other people here in Brasil who´ll want one too. As we probably won´t be going to the USA to pick up a book, I´d rather buy through Kickstarter. I´d also buy a Hunter´s Hunted 2. And depending on the subject of Children of Revolution, I´d thought about it also.
      Deluxe features that suit each project would be nicer. As an obssessive colector, I really apreciate the distinction between the black/green shine of the Vampire books, and the nicer Browns in the Werewolves (and I get sad that the beautiful figure in the Changelings collection never got completed).
      Thank you very much, Mariana & Renato

    24. Jennifer Fuss
      on March 16, 2012

      Will there be a Grand Masquerade 2012?
      Am really waiting for news about it as the flight from europe is rather expensive and also the accomodation doesn't get cheaper. Not to speak of budget & planning while having a job.

      Anyway I would prefer if the Werewolf 20th would be avaible by normal pre-order as the V20 were. Without going through the difficulties of a KIckstarter projext with a rather limited timeframe and kind of issues for ordering multiple copies.

      I like the idea of Children of the revolution as well as Hunters Hunted 2 as Kickstarter, But I would prefer if the prize wouldn't be as high, (I do consider 50 - 70 Dollars for a 80 paged book a bit like a hurdle to overcome)
      Maybe, even though it's been offtarget by $3,642 the annoted PDF would still be an option?)

    25. Andrea Duck Portos on March 16, 2012

      For the question of the W20 book, why do you have to chose among Grand Masquerade and Kickstarter? =P Why not both? =) as for v20, with the difference that this time the order for non-comers to Grand Masquerade could be managed with KS =)

    26. Jussi Myllyluoma
      on March 16, 2012

      @Matt — thanks for clearing that up for me. I had somehow got it in my head that V20GM = V20DL!
      But what I'm slightly confused about in that case — is the format of the V20 Companion DL made to match the "international" V20 DL, or the V20 GM?
      Still, looking at the other comments here, it seems to me that for whatever reason, I was not the only one to miss out on the V20DL, and that a Kickstarter Edition V20 Deluxe to match the Companion would probably not be a bad thing...
      And that's the great thing with Kickstarter: you can start the project, and things only need to happen it it's popular enough to actually get funded!

    27. Missing avatar

      David Brand on March 16, 2012

      An addition to my comment made earlier today....UPDATED STORYTELLER SCREENS. The classic screens are flimsy and out of date, and extremely hard to procure. I would live to see the v20 companion and any other companions from here on be release with a new screen made of thicker cardboard. Or at least launch another campaign to make new screens as well.

    28. Matt M McElroy on March 16, 2012

      @Jussi, there was a non-GM Deluxe edition of V20 available for anyone in the world. Thousands of copies were sold to people not at Grand Masquerade. The V20 Europe group bought several hundred copies of Deluxe V20 books and only a few Grand Masquerade editions.

    29. Jussi Myllyluoma
      on March 16, 2012

      From my perspective, KS is the only viable option.
      I really hope that WW takes to heart that a lot of people around the globe might not have been up to buying air fare to the Grand Masquerade, and hence were forced to miss out on the V20 Deluxe. I can only see it as a testament to the international fans' love for VtM that so many of us here still chose to back a project to print a Companion in a deluxe format to match a core book that we haven't got, nor indeed can ever get.
      Perhaps even WW are so moved by this that they choose to launch a Kickstarter for a special deluxe core book edition (V20.12? V20KS?) to match the Companion...
      (As it happens, I decided in the end to back this project, pretty much hoping for something like that to happen — I hate incomplete sets with a passion, and a deluxe Companion without a deluxe core book is as incomplete a set as you can get.)
      But no more "Americans Only" books, please.

    30. Xandimar on March 16, 2012

      Also a word from Europe - I would support all deluxe versions of old World of Darkness that you put on Kickstarter, rather than on Grand Masquerade. So I'm waiting for Children of the Revolution and Hunters Hunted 2. Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition? - bring it on! Just remember to focus on QUALITY rather than quantity of the final product. Vampire V20 definitely set the right direction.

    31. Alexis O'Neil on March 16, 2012

      As it has already been told, a 20 version of werewolf and mage would be great.

      I've read you wanted to make à french version of V20, will it be done ?

    32. Patrick Barrett on March 16, 2012

      ... One other comment after reading through these comments and my issues with getting my copy of V20 would be to seriously look at your courier service. The courier company were extremely obstructive, charging 'duty processing fee's' despite the package clearly labelled book and not for resale. I do have to say WW were extremely helpful sorting this though...

    33. Jerry G on March 16, 2012

      I would support any Werewolf 20th anniversary project, future deluxe edition projects for Vampire, and, essentially, whatever else you guys put up on Kickstarter. Keep this up and I'll have a gorgeous set of deluxe White Wolf books on my shelves!

    34. Patrick Barrett on March 16, 2012

      As a fan from across the pond I'd have to say that the kickstarter route for any further oWoD books. The whole Grand Masquerade thing isn't really a viable option. I do hope this is another book in a great series of books celebrating this momentous occasion in RPG;s .

    35. Missing avatar

      Dale Blakey on March 16, 2012

      As an international buyer i would prefer Kickstater if possible

    36. Robert Bergman on March 16, 2012

      I'm going to be the oddball and suggest a live action development of Demon the Fallen. It's the only line from the classic world of darkness that I know of that never got the MET treatment. I personally find it's themes and angle on the WOD interesting, and find it very fulfilling to integrate them into my Masquerade games from time to time as NPC's and such.

    37. Iván de Neymet
      on March 16, 2012

      This seems a good way to gauge fan interest, and I believe I'm willing to support other WW projects. I'm in for mage, and maybe for W20. Someone said to make something a little bit different for different projects (maybe brown leather cover for W20, or something like that). About conventions, it is difficult if one lives outside the US, so maybe it should be a way to get things but not the only one.

    38. MadMoses on March 16, 2012

      I'm all for doing a Werewolf 20th Anniversary Limited Edition on kickstarter. The Grand Masquerade bundle isn't exactly viable for international buyers.

    39. Sam Wong
      on March 16, 2012

      I totally missed out on the V20 due to being out of the gaming loop for a while. Agonized over whether to pledge for a deluxe companion via kick starter or not since I never got a deluxe V20. In the end, I got dragged into the excitement of pledging ad watching the pledge levels escalate.

      I personally would like to see other games go through the kick starter model for a chance at getting an upgraded edition. However, if you are looking at comments about this kckstarter experience, might I suggest revisiting how you set your pledge levels. While the late release of multiple copy pledge levels went some way to alleviating some of the concerns, I believe a better setting of pledge levels, with more variations and delayed releases or additional releases of more specialized limited edition rewards would have possibly increased the pledge commitments from some. I know I looked at increasing my pledge but there either was not anything special to warrant it, or anything available by the time I pledged.

      The special incentives do not necessarily mean time with the developers and cost an arm or a leg. Others have suggested simpe things like clan pins, or possibly artwork. I have seen other kckstarter projects ramp up their pledge levels through smart use of their limited edition pledge levels and or stretch goals and these are projects with unestablished products or brands. Granted, you have done well with the current level, but perhaps with some tweaking it coud even be higher?

    40. Missing avatar

      J. W. Bennett on March 16, 2012

      I'm going to throw my support for more Kickstarter books in the future. Not every book needs this process, but I think it's a lot more fulfilling to the fan base for special books like these. As plenty of people have said, getting to the GM is tough for a lot of us. Getting the deluxe V20 if you didn't go wasn't the happiest process (and still isn't for some). I think it would be best to have a package on KS that gives GM tickets as a reward level if you want to keep a link with 20th anniversary projects.

    41. Alexis O'Neil on March 16, 2012

      David E. Smith: you could have ordered the Vampire V20 book. There were two offers: one for those going to The Grand Masquerade and one for those who wanted it at home... The only difference was the cover.

    42. Alexis O'Neil on March 16, 2012

      For answering, this way of editing isn't unpleasant. But it's a pity that it "must" be done without the stores (I like my rpg-store).
      I won't be interested in Children of the Revolution nor Hunters Hunted 2. It is simply not the kind of extensions I'm interested in.
      But I'll love to have à V20 for Werewolf, whatever the way of ordering it... Just think of french fans (and others) and keep leting us ordering your products ! ;)

    43. Arthur "Torakhan" Dreese on March 16, 2012

      I think that Kickstarter would be great for projects where you're uncertain if there's enough interest there to garner a full production-- W20 Changing Breeds, W20 Book of the Wyrm (or, even Revised Book of the Wyrm), Changeling Revised/ C20, WoD: West Michigan, V20 Zippo, whatever. It could be difficult with production times to get the funding, and for folks to wait a year before they get something in their hands, but it's more tailored for what Kickstarter can do.
      BUT, if you're going to do this sort of thing, you REALLY need to get control of your web site and advertise these projects better, as there are still folks who don't know about the Deluxe V20 Companion Kickstarter.

      Hmmmm... I can see pros and cons with offering W20 Deluxe with one or the other.
      The only benefit to going with Kickstarter over The Grand Masquerade orders would be that there could be a greater frenzy of interest with the running tally of orders, as well as other cool incentives offered to folks willing to pay more money, but there wouldn't be a "Grand Masquerade" edition unless that was an option after the Kickstarter ended and you could choose between the standard and the GM versions.
      On the other hand, going through The Grand Masquerade (well, through the White Wolf ordering system?) you would be able to get a Grand Masquerade edition (if it wasn't offered otherwise), but it would be far less dramatic than watching the numbers tally-up and having cool offers you get with pledges.

      So, here's my thought: ADVERTISE THE HECK out of the W20 Deluxe on White Wolf/Grand Masquerade web site. Send the link to the Kickstarter if they want to purchase it with perks (Say, between May and June?) Then, if there's still time to place orders, make them available on the web site, but there's no adding names, getting stuff for the Deluxe version (if that's even available.)

    44. Justin Driscoll on March 16, 2012

      You could have just ordered the other version. It is still leather bound and all that it just doesn't say "Grand Masquerade" on the cover. That's what I did.

    45. Missing avatar

      David E. Smith on March 16, 2012

      Honestly, I'm a bit annoyed that there apparently wasn't any opportunity to get the original V20 book that didn't involve significant travel (going to the "Grand Masquerade" a real-life gathering in Louisiana). Not everyone can travel, potentially internationally, so making books only available there seems patently unfair. (I didn't even know about this event until just now, which would be several months too late.)

    46. Mark Brunsdon on March 16, 2012

      Werewolf 20th and MET 20th are both items that interest me.

    47. Missing avatar

      on March 16, 2012

      Being from the old continent I'd really appreciate future projects using Kickstarter AND I'd like a Deluxe Werewolf.

    48. Chris Monroe on March 16, 2012

      I'm game for more beautiful black book projects. I'm almost certainly biased but I'd like to see the systems more unified. But I expect the answer here is "that's what Requiem and the NWoD were for". I just want my cake and to eat it to... I love the OWoD universe just wish the systems had blended a little better, if there is a way to address that without upsetting the antediluvian among us or making the system unwieldy I'd like to cast a vote for that.

    49. Missing avatar

      Sean K.I.W. Steele on March 16, 2012

      How about this: Masquerade tickets at the various levels of a kickstarter project? That seems to work better in line with the various ticket levels as well as the various other promos that come with the book.

    50. Heather Shannon on March 16, 2012

      I would prefer any 20th Anniversary editions be available with Masquarade tickets. Makes it worth buying a more expensive package.