Share this project


Share this project

Contribute to help us give the Deluxe Exalted 3rd Edition a leather bound, embossed+, metallic-edged, full-color, deluxe treatment.
Contribute to help us give the Deluxe Exalted 3rd Edition a leather bound, embossed+, metallic-edged, full-color, deluxe treatment.
4,368 backers pledged $684,755 to help bring this project to life.

10 Days To Go...

Yeah, yeah, the KS Countdown says 9-

But before we get to our usual Milestones breakdown, we need to address the concerns that the Abyssals Preview raised after we posted it. We're extremely sorry that the intent of the Charms was not clear and that the descriptions did not convey the powers to such an extent as to make readers upset. The Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears's Charms were written as they were to emulate the truly evil actions she is capable of, but it is clear from the comments here and across the internet that we were not clear in exactly what those evils were. After reading through them with the concerns of others as our guide, as opposed to our intentions, we can see how some folks were appalled at what was presented. Rest assured that we are listening to ALL of the feedback and are adjusting the text to create the interpretation of the Charms that we did intend. In the spirit of further clarification, I give you this message from the Devs:

As it turns out, concept thumbnails don't communicate as much detail as full Charm writeups, and some people wanted clarification on the style and intent of a couple of the Charm ideas in the recent Abyssals preview. Without further ado, we're happy to clarify the idea behind those Charms here:

Frozen Watchfire Embrace

Frozen Watchfire Embrace lets an Abyssal manage multiple lovers at once, while maintaining her parasitism, and also causing them to boil with lust for her. Those apparitions are not for rape. They are for haunting, and seduction. They will be insistent, terrifying, and seductive, but ultimately only the dark lusts and passions of the target will allow these phantoms to do what their master has bid. They take the deathknight's paramour down the road to damnation. By giving in, said lover knows they are giving in to something dark and terrible, yet incredibly desirable. There's no force involved, only haunting seduction.

Black Rose Blooming

You shroud yourself in the unearthly perfection of the grave, achieving a beauty beyond the ken of the mortal world. Pale figures and moaning shadows, ephemera drawn from the Underworld by your deathly allure, rustle at the eaves, blow past the windows, and press their hands and lips to the doors of your abode, whispering your name, whispering for someone to let them in.

On the road at night, a lone traveler might find herself meeting a rider with skin like white orchids and a perfect symmetry of form and figure. He seems a romantic icon from another world, and as he asks her name, restless shades flit through the trees, creep into the road, and touch his legs and his horse with aching, possessive awe. He brushes them aside as he helps the traveler onto the back of his horse and takes off into the night, the phantoms riding in his wake, not quite daring to call out his forbidden, forsaken name. Neither woman nor rider are seen again, not in that region.

Abyssal tone

Exalted doesn't tend to pull punches when describing ugly things in its setting, or to sugar-coat the excesses, vices, or atrocities of its heroes. This makes striking an appropriate tone when talking about the specifically awful parts of the game—such as a monster like the Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears—a careful balancing act. To be clear, the Abyssal Exalted and their Deathlord creators delve into some very dark themes at times, but to be equally clear, Exalted is supposed to be fun to play. We appreciate and are considering the great feedback we've gotten as a result of the latest preview.

Coming up very soon for Kickstarter backers will be another Exalt preview—one you won't need a stretch goal to unlock. Stay tuned...


  • We passed our Project Goal in 18 Minutes...fully funded in 18 minutes
  • We have raised over 800% of that Project Goal so far. 
  • The Deluxe Exalted 3rd Edition Kickstarter is now #2 of the highest backed tabletop RPG KSs and Onyx Path's highest funded KS evah! 
  • 3255 wonderful Backers- thanks to all of you folks for supporting us! 
  • 227 crazed Backers for the Orichalcum Ultra-Deluxe EX3 Edition: looks like we're going to print this gorgeous thing! 
  • Your pledges have passed 17 Stretch Goals, which give you as backers a new EX3 Novel written by Matt Forbeck, a set of 5 Chibi-style Bookmarks by Mel Uran, a recording of John and Holden expounding on their plans and dreams for the future of Exalted, an EX3 Retrospective PDF book, EX3 Quickstart, the EX3 Music Suite, the EX3 Fiction Anthology, an Infernals and an Abyssals Preview, a set of Charm Cards, and the option to pledge for both the EX3 Storytellers' Screen and the Ex3 Cloth Map. You have increased the book's art budget, Sorcery section, and added three silk ribbon bookmarks so it'll look even sweeter, and you gave the creative team a much appreciated pay bump, and have enabled us to bring John and Holden to GenCon to represent for Exalted.
  • Both Previews: the Infernal and Abyssal Exalted PDFs and the Developer Recording are both live and the feedback has been greatly appreciated by the Devs. 

 Our next Stretch Goal is an Exalted 3rd Edition Comic written by Jim Zubkavich, writer and creator of the award-winning Skullkickers comic and long-time Exalted freelancer, and illustrated by Hans "Hanzo" Steinbach. We will also unlock two new Reward Tiers that will allow backers' Exalted characters to appear as crowd scene extras or as minor characters in the comic.

In addition, please check out this link to an overview of the Mechanics in EX3:


Only backers can post comments. Log In
    1. Andrew Hows on June 3, 2013

      @James: The Deathlords are the remnants of First-Age Solars at the full height of their Great Curse inspired dickishness. That narcissism and sociopathy is then overlaid by the nihilism of their Neverborn masters. The charmset provided to Abyssals by their Deathlord masters should reflect their vile and depraved nature; how the Abyssals use those charms is up to them, and continues the theme that pervades the whole game of the nature of power, and how it is used.

      Also, Abyssals need to be available as antagonists as well as a playable splat; if you strip back the inherent evil of the Abyssal nature, you remove the ability to provide that sort of evil for the players of other splats to fight against.

    2. Cleveland English on June 2, 2013

      @ Naz

      No problem Naz, really you have the right to feel however you want about it and I'm not knocking that. Let me equate it to say, Ice Cream, you hit up a Baskin Robins or any place with a decent variety of ice cream, and they will always have the low fat, yogurt or sherbet choice, in a flavor or 2 available for those that, for what ever reason, like the taste of cold creamy/fruity stuff, but can't do the ice cream. So do I knock them for being lactose intolerant, or just because they prefer sherbert, or they happen to be on a diet? No, not at all, good for them, and more for me. However, Abyssals aren't ice cream, they need to be gotten right the first time. If their flavor is to dark, are there not so many other villains or antagonists, for the heros to have at? Must the only triple fudge ice cream on the menue be made low fat? I certainly hope not.

    3. James Burdo on May 31, 2013

      I only have 1st ed, and I was wondering about the comments on the Abyssals here. Namely, that they're supposed to represent everything vile and depraved. Why? The Neverborn didn't want to kill Creation for evil's sake. Their goal was to have everything at their dead level so they could re-assume their power over it. The Deathlords were Solars who agreed to pledge to the Neverborn so they could keep existing. How would depravity or vileness help their cause? The sample Abyssal in the 1st ed core book even mentioned how he possessed "a touch of character" that his Deathlord admired in his Abyssals.

    4. Ryan Riojas on May 30, 2013

      Debate aside it would also be alot of fun to be able to build the hell out of custom charms.

      for myself i want to be able to make something like a kindred of the east, loved the hun/po yin/yang conflict and monster form options. Looks like by taking bits and pieces of the new stuff i'll be able to make something like that without much hassle.

    5. Ryan Riojas on May 30, 2013

      Custom charms are key to the whole blow up really.
      Personally i saw the charm tree and was thinking of how being wrapped around her figure and knowing its terrible you could use decision points to hide weapons supplies and plan an escape or send letters for solar help. or whatever, or build up your nerve (will) to strike at the right moment and free the land from her/his tyranny.

      But it needs to be recognized that exalted is also kung fu anime mecha exploration, final fantasy, conan..... well really damn near everything. which brings a very wide fan base to the game, fans with a wide array of comfort zones for a wide array of issues they may not which to include.

      So Its one thing to ignore it because its uncomfortable for the group,
      Its another to ignore it but its the only option for a smooth talker or whatever and make hard to play the character your comfortable with or have an antagonist your players are comfortable with .Note I'm willing to bet there are other trees available as well. If not wording in the middle ground is the better option.
      However if custom charms are easy to make and kind of expected its also less of an issue if that option is clear.

    6. Simon Edwards on May 30, 2013

      @Paul - the Exigents will have rules for creating custom charms, I believe, so making up your own officially-sanctioned charm trees can absolutely be a thing.

    7. Paul Baxter on May 30, 2013

      @ Innes: Thanks for that. The whole reason I got into Exalted was because of the Abyssals (or more precise, the Deathlords and Neverborn, as I'm a huge fan of the old Wraith: the Oblivion), and the notion of creating my own monstrosities of the Underworld was pretty exciting. If the charms of the Abyssal Exalted are tied to the Deathlords, having some suggestions on how I'd mechanically accommodate that in terms of my own creations would be vital...

    8. Naz on May 30, 2013

      @Cleveland: I feel you're leading towards a slippery slope fallacy (If we allow gay marriage then next we'll have to allow them to marry dogs and very small rocks). But let me move on. It is not my intent to start a censorship rampage. Perhaps more tact in content than 2E Infernals.

      While I'd prefer certain topics not be explicitly described and prominent and statted out (IF it ever came to it), but if that's what Exalted contains, then I will opt to just ignore it or not purchase that material. And that's OK. There are many other areas of pulp fantasy to explore without the ugliest elements full-on detailed.

      I fully understand I am one voice to compare and contrast against many others. Making the best informed decision requires discussion. Discussion to help plan the future works best if everyone shares their thoughts to capture the myriad perspectives out there. I respect everyone's view will be different and that a good number do prefer harsh aspects.

      If there are other concerns I'm fully willing to continue listening and making sense of the bigger picture.

    9. Cleveland English on May 30, 2013

      Please do not take the comments of a sensetive few like Naz as the over all sentiment of the gamming community at large. Abysalls are ment to be incredibly vile, sexualy deviant, epic antagonists. Very little should be beyond them including the lowest depravities one might imagine. There are a number of uncomfortable topics that come up in this game and it's not at all for everyone. But should you start taking everything objectionable out of it just because some people experienced it in real life, then you will be left with a very hollow, weak, adolescent fluff, that no one will really be interested in. Examples, no one complains about racism, slavery, murder,or genocide in game. Yet there are certainly people who play who have been touched, either directly or within their lineage or circle of friends who have. Keep it creatively gritty please.

    10. Kjetil Kverndokken on May 30, 2013

      I thought the preview read perfectly fine tbh.
      other then that I agree perfectly with the comedian Steve Hughes.

      Keep on rocking devs - I cant wait to get the whole line on my shelf :)

    11. Innes on May 30, 2013

      @Paul unlikely. I believe they've said that if they included more than the classic nine they'd also drop the idea that there's no more than thirteen of them.

    12. Paul Baxter on May 29, 2013

      Here's a serious question about Abyssal Charms, since they are tied to Deathlords: Are we going to get write-ups on all 13 Deathlords?

      First and Second Edition left room open for a ST to create some of these beings, with only nine of the Deathlords "named" (or credited, or whatever you call for beings who forsook their names to serve their masters). I suppose that the charm sets offered in EX3 could act as examples for how to create new ones for custom Deathlords, but would the rules come with guidelines on how to do that?

      I'm just curious, as I'm one who enjoys adding my own spin on a game.

    13. Naz on May 29, 2013

      Please try to read this in an even voice. This is not angry, I am trying to share why this is treated different from other real life horrors. Calm voice on:

      Why I would prefer sexual assault not be explicitly set in a game:
      I've helped deal with the fallout for years in real life. I didn't even go through it and it has caused significant mental strain to help carry that weight. Personally I have zero interest in "meeting these challenges in the game world." Been there, still scrapping here and there.
      It sucks. It's not fun. There is no final "triumph" which makes it all better.
      I'd say it typically ruins lives forever. One just get marginally better and maybe if you're lucky enough fill your life with enough positive things to make the bad not matter quite so much years down the road.
      To me: That's not fun or enjoyable in a recreational activity.
      SIde note:
      The big deal and complaints about rape as opposed to genocide is that a significant portion of the world's population has suffered this personal trauma and carries it with them for years afterwards, seeing reflections and reminders everywhere they go. It should also be noted that rape is not largely about sex, it's about the dominance and utter control of someone.
      Q: "Well why doesn't regular old Mind-control to do someone's bidding squick people out so much?"
      A: Because it hasn't happened in real life.
      I believe that is the line that is drawn subconsciously.
      Bottom line: It's assumed crap happens in game like in real life. Absolutely I personally do not feel explicit setting inclusion and attention-drawing adds anything positive in the game. If others feel the need to explore the topic via gaming, and can do so and perhaps learn something from it, then I hope it at least serves as a useful tool.

      Thank you for reading.

    14. Simon Edwards on May 29, 2013

      @Adam: You. I like you.

    15. Marco Brigo on May 29, 2013

      @Adam Swaller, on this, i couldn't agree more.

    16. Missing avatar

      Adam Swaller on May 29, 2013

      My sole contention is that I shouldn't have to even begin to approach reading about rape or discussing rape when trying to get info about the one RPG that I've played for over 10 years.

    17. Marco Brigo on May 29, 2013

      I don't... i seriously dunno how all this ruckus came up.

      I, as a storyteller, thought those charms were perfect. They were possibly (and i say possibly cause you can use them in any degree of explicit or low as you wish in your game) horrific, depraved, deranged, inhuman. We're talking Abyssals... i'm gonna make Abyssals npc. I'm not gonna make them polite. I expect my Abyssal npcs to rape, scar, maim, traumatize you in any physical AND mental AND supernatural way conceivable. It's what they do! They're depravity, horror, nightmare and trauma incarnate...

      This is a roleplaying game. ROLE PLAYING. I expect some of the masters of depravity to rape people. I really do. And i doubt anyone out there would expect anything less from them. That's their role (among a gazillion many others). You don't like it? Don't play it. Don't play that role. But the fact you're denying it exists is silly. You think it's ok to maim and torture people in many many agonizing and truculent ways but raping an innocent is too much for you? Cool, i can understand that... but it's not too much for an Abyssal. That's their background. That's what they stand for in the game. You don't like them? Don't use them, change them, ignore or delete that part of them from your game. Fine.

      They're not merely villains, seriously. Anyone can be a villain in your game cause of various factors. They can be (each character is different and more or less extreme ofc) the incarnation of whatever you would never do even under torture, of your worst fears, nightmares, depravities. Of anything it would make you puke and feel sick just by hearing about it. Of anything that violates, tears apart, shreds any minimal hint and bit of what it means to have a humanity.

      We're not talking about what people want. We're talking about what the Deathlord and their servants want. What should stop them to use any charm (even those not listed there and regarding other skills) to rape someone? Think about it... you're an Abyssal (and when i say you're an Abyssal i mean you could be any potential Abyssal not just the one conveniently with similar moral compasses as your own). Why should you have moral concerns about raping? What would stop you?

      Raping is one of the most horrible things an human being can conceive. So it's Abyssal territory. 100%. A lot of other things are far worse than raping and they're Abyssal territory too. Is genocide not a problem? I don't see anyone complaining about genocide... If they forced you to choose between slaugthering hundreds and raping one without any way to avoid one of the 2, what would you choose? Slaughtering hundreds? Nice human being you are! Raping is not more froceful or more unjust than slavery isn't it? Why no one's bitching about slavery? If i'm a deathknight i can kill 1000 babies and drink and bathe in their blood in the moonlight (and there's plenty of charms that would let me do it in any edition) but raping someone is a concern? Seriously?

      And let's not forget raping is not a direct consequence of those charms. Yes, in an extreme application they can be used toward that end. But so can a charm that makes me uber strong so the others are powerless to resist me. Is such a charm an equal concern cause there's a chance i might use it to rape? Cut also charms that make me invisible, i could sneak on someone naked in their house and rape them... cut charms that make me super fast, you could catch someone escaping from a rape to rape them! Cut charms that make me seem friendly or lovable, in the end they might create an emotional and physical attraction to me that would never have been bron if i didn't artificially make myself interesting. So it's indirect rape sort of. Don't put charms that make me appear as someone else too! You never know, i might appear as one's a husband or wife to get them in bed and turn off the disguise midsex to make a surprise rape... not good. What about an archery charm? Yeah that you can pu... oh wait... what if someone puts dildos instead of arrowtips and...

      Seriously, don't put any charms in the new books.

      Don't even give the possibility to people and storytellers to create characters and npc btw... they might create rapists...

      Now that i think about it... free will is wrong. A rapist might be born or grow amongst the millions of the masses. So don't put that in the game. Actually let's all 7 billions whatever people go lobotomize ourselves in real life so no one thinks about rape anymore!

      I stand behind the developers and their intentions on this one. The fact you actually thought they could be used to rape shows you're more depraved than what you actually think too. I read them many times, and i thought about some degree of forced arousal, sexual enticement/addiction, some forceful manner to give you crafted fetishes maybe... but i actually didn't think about rape before i read all the comments... i'm perplexed.

    18. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      @Venatius: No kidding. How many RPGs consist mainly of murdering small green creatures and stealing their stuff?

    19. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      @Xelkelvos: I think the awkward thing is that Abyssals are a PC splat, and can be antiheroes, or seeking redemption. But they can also be totally evil NPCs. Since there's no mechanical difference between NPC-only and PC charms, the NPC charms become available to PCs just by existing.

      Or are you saying that no NPCs in the game should have such charms? What about the Realm having a caste system and slavery?

    20. Missing avatar

      Venatius on May 29, 2013

      If "leaving something possible for PCs to do" is equivalent to "condoning it", as several commentators have explicitly asserted, I think we just need to pack the entire tabletop RPG hobby up and go home because it means every single RPG writer ever is a monster.

    21. Matías Nicolás Caruso
      on May 29, 2013

      "It's clear that very few people actually plan on using them in-game"

      What kind of data do you have that makes this so "clear"? I'm very curious.

    22. Missing avatar

      Joshua Purnell on May 29, 2013

      Speaking as someone who thought the Lover inspired charm spoilers were wonderful, I read these previews as being less about promoting rape/sexual abuse/assault/exploitation, and more as a means to facilitate (a hopefully meaningful) discussion about these types of extremely uncomfortable topics by enabling the game to become a medium in which these types of stories can be told.

      Admittedly, these charms (and, by extension, the stories they invite groups to tell) aren't going to be appropriate for every group, or even the overwhelming majority of groups, and that's okay. These subjects are profoundly uncomfortable for many people for many reasons, and it's understandable that many gamers wouldn't want to explore these topics terribly much at all, let alone in the context of a table-top RPG (I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that, while I personally loved the Succubus Arts spoilers, I can understand and appreciate why a lot of people found them offensive, even if I don't necessarily agree with some of the things that were said in the discussion that followed).

      That said, I think it's important for Ex3 to be allowed to try and handle these types of discomforting subjects in a nuanced and meaningful way, especially when it is thematically appropriate for the game to do so (which, in my opinion, these topics very much are, both to Exalted in general and Abyssals in particular).

      Just to clarify here, while I really want Ex3 to attempt to broach subjects like this, I am not saying that this should in any way become the primary focus of the game. Exalted has always been a game laden with all the wonderful epic heroes, pulpy adventure, and wuxia action that many of us know and love, and that shouldn't change. I just want the game to aspire to more in some areas.

    23. Xelkelvos on May 29, 2013

      People also clamored for the Book of Swallowed Darkness when it was released as an April Fool's Joke. Just because people want it, doesn't mean they should have it.

      That's not to say offering player options to be villains isn't something that shouldn't be done, but there are lines that shouldn't be crossed even if you want to make someone seem like a villain. There are multiple ways to write the fluff for these charms that still fit into the themes of The Lover without going over that line and it's a writer's job to make that happen. A number of the charms are pretty explicit in how they're to be used and there are obvious connections between them that support a certain mode of play.

      It's clear that very few people actually plan on using them in-game which makes it seem like it would be a waste of wordcount (something the devs talk about as a limit on what they can ultimately include in a book) to even put it in.

    24. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      Part of this is that I've been a Werewolf fan for many years, and Werewolf antagonists are at least as bad as this charmset. It's a horror game. Not that I want Black Spiral Dancers to be playable, or thought that Fomori and Sabbat needed to be playable. But the existence of horror in a WW game is a given for me.

      Exalted is fantasy, but Abyssals were the original horror Exalted. That's one of their themes. It's just silly to expect them to suddenly be safe, when they were plenty horrific in previous editions.

      It's also silly that people are acting like this is any worse than antagonists (and PCs!) out to genocide the universe, or eat human souls, or promote slavery and imperialism. Those things are just as harmful.

    25. Nick Pilon on May 29, 2013

      I don't know, were I running an Abyssals game, I'd be pretty ok with a player coming to me and going "I want to play Bo from Lost Girl, only as a gothic anti-hero". I mean, I'd need to have a talk with the group about comfort levels, style, and curtain-drawing while sorting out a contract of play. But I don't see it as inherently more offensive than vast suites of charms for painfully dismembering other human beings.

    26. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      And because Charms marked "NPC only" would be mechanically identical to PC charms, unless they had no mechanics at all.

    27. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      Not that there isn't a line to draw, but I fail to see how providing rules for evil antagonists to mistreat your PCs necessarily makes the game the equivalent of FATAL. These are clearly depicted as evil things, and the majority of the game revolves around other things.

    28. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      Because Abyssals were already playable in 1st edition, where their goal was already to genocide everyone in Creation, which is already as evil as it gets.

      Because the main antagonists to Exalted are other Exalted, and antagonists without game mechanics suck.

      Because Over the past 20+ years many White Wolf players have repeatedly clamoured for rules to play the "evil" factions, like Sabbat and Technocracy, until the staff finally said "alright, it's your game, we're done telling you how to run it" and started making them playable.

    29. Xelkelvos on May 29, 2013

      @Ellen - I'm not withdrawing my pledge either. What I mean to say is that by making these charms, the writer who created them finds it acceptable to see use in play by PCs and see nothing wrong with the (likely) possibility players using them in their described manner. I doubt any of the devs would ever be pleased to preside over a game where a PC uses these charms as they're written, but if that was the case, these abilities should be left to the NPCs and not as an option for PCs.

    30. Xelkelvos on May 29, 2013

      Also, rape doesn't necessarily mean use of physical force. Magical coercion is just as skeevy (similar to Roofies). Again, making sex or lust of whatever be a mandatory requirement or theme to the charms ultimately puts it over the line. Frozen Watchfire Embrace ultimately gives the theme of "it's the victim's fault" even though their resolve was probably worn away and their intimacies towards the Abyssal built up by Addictive Kiss.

    31. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      @Xelkelvos: Why on Earth do you assume that just because somebody doesn't want to lynch the Devs, that they don't find these charms creepy?

      I think they're disturbing as Hell, I'd be uncomfortable seeing them in a game, and I would never be comfortable roleplaying a character that uses them.

      But that does not lead me to hate the Devs or accuse them of being actual Abyssals in real life. I'm not tying myself in knots or withdrawing my pledges just because charms that represent evil continue to be as disgusting as they were in previous editions.

    32. Matías Nicolás Caruso
      on May 29, 2013

      @Amy: the 1st Edition Core is a great book, and I have very fond memories of it. That said, and since most of the core is mechanics, not setting, I don't know if it's a great idea to purchase it or not (that depends how cheap you can find it). If I have to pick a single 1st Edition book, it'd be Games of Divinity (IMHO, the best book of 1st Edition).

    33. Naz on May 29, 2013

      I'm glad they found a more effective way to word the intent. For perspective, I shared the preview with someone very close who is a survivor - knowing she has had years to process things and if anything is more jaded or flabbergasted when stupid things related to the topic come up these days..

      The response after reading (and not seeing any of the discussions online) was simply "That's not subtext, that's just text."

      So I'm glad the feedback (unfortunately explosive) in the end helped tighten up wording. :D

      I personally will not include the Lover or anything to do with the deep end of the subject in my games, and from personal comfort would feel better about not seeing cases like Lilun in the next edition. But if it's there, then I will simply ignore it and not use that part. Simple and done.

      Thanks to the devs again.

    34. Xelkelvos on May 29, 2013

      @Carrick - They also said that they were taking this feedback into consideration on the various communities they visit and frequent when they communicate with the fans. However, this post, which was made after apologies on those communities were made and a promised to resolve the controversy, shows little of the resolution promise.

      I am still surprised people aren't at least a little weirded out by the charms given that Soul Feeding Fascination is pretty explicit in what it asks and the charms around it, supporting use of said charm. Allowing for options OTHER than intercourse would have probably been the band-aid this charmset needed (calling it "prolonged intimate contact" for example). Carnal Shadow Resurrection is also a big deal. It implies the condoning of such acts by PCs and players since it's offered as a player option which is also part of the problem.

      This isn't as bad as Lillun though and her creation was pretty awful, perverse and probably fed into more people's fantasies than would be comfortable. Particularly the comic of her.

    35. Simon Edwards on May 29, 2013

      And after a quick check- Yes it is, the corebook is $18 right now, as are the fatsplats. Everything from 1st edition is half price, it seems.

    36. Ellen Schousboe on May 29, 2013

      Hey Devs,

      The sooner you preview the new Exalted, the sooner people might finally start talking about something else.

    37. Simon Edwards on May 29, 2013

      @Amy I think most if not all of Exalted 1st edition is half-price on DriveThru right now in PDF form, if you don't mind reading in the ebook format.

    38. Amy Robson on May 29, 2013

      @Matias- Thank you. I've been wanting to look at 1st Ed. for a while now, but I'm rather busy and no one I know seems to have any physical copies. Still the main rule book is going rather cheaply on Amazon right now, so I might take the chance to treat myself. ;D

    39. Amy Robson on May 29, 2013

      @Adam- I won't argue the semantics of there being apparently no 'controversy' even though you go on to state they've restarted the 'controversy', all I'll say is that perhaps my wording was a bit strong. There's only so 'controversial' a few conversations in a few places on the internet can get after all (although I'd say backers wanting to pull their pledges is a pretty serious concern at least).
      But I can understand where you're coming from with the 'Why bring it back up?' stance. I honestly can't fathom why either. Thank you for sharing your views though. It is nice to talk. ^___~

    40. Missing avatar

      Carrick McClain on May 29, 2013

      Those were rough developers' notes on charms, not even first drafts. They've said this.
      They've also said they're taking feedback into consideration, right in this very post.

    41. Matías Nicolás Caruso
      on May 29, 2013

      @Amy: You are welcome =)
      If you have a friend who has 1st Edition books, you should check them out, they are great fluff-wise (particularly the 4 books offered on this KS as an add-on are full of great material).

    42. Missing avatar

      Adam Swaller on May 29, 2013

      @ Amy

      People aren't raising this as a controversy, just a way to continue to mock the line. 2E has more than its fair share of awful shit, like Lilun. Exalted has always had these things. I think the developers knew how the community would react to these charms since they already released them and already floated the explanations that were given in this update. And with this information they sent out a mass email to everyone basically restarting the controversy. So, again, whyyyyyyyy? Why would they willingly add fuel to a fire that was dying out? The apologies were given, people were moving on, and now it's back to discussions about rape. It makes me lose my enthusiasm for this game when all of the discussion is less on Tyrant Lizards biting people and more on creepy sex stuff. That's pretty hard to do, especially since I've been following the line since 1E.

      Seriously. If Rich or any of the developers are reading this, please walk this back. You guys can easily say "We're sorry if it seemed like we were doubling down. We weren't. We just wanted to let you know our intentions behind the original charm design. We have heard your complaints and we will be taking those into consideration as we redo those charms." If you do it quick enough the controversy will die down.

    43. Amy Robson on May 29, 2013

      @Rob- If you are sick of it then simply don't use it in your campaign. I'm sure there will be lots of other options; both exciting and new ones and ones that are reminiscent and rooted in what we already know; but the foundations need to be there for a myriad of gaming possibilities.
      If you feel that the traditional mwa-ha-ha won't suit your game then it's up to you as the ST to utilize the elements you think will be needed in order to bring what you want to your sessions. However, I don't think the Exalted team should be scorned for trying to cover as many bases as possible, and I'm sure they will cover things that you would like to see as well as giving us something similar to what we saw in the Abyssal preview.
      Lets embrace the new whilst also appreciating the old and what we already have. Standing on the shoulders of giants and what-not....

    44. Amy Robson on May 29, 2013

      @Matias- Thank you for the confirm. I haven't had much experience with 1st Ed. so I didn't want to speculate too much you see. ;3

    45. Matías Nicolás Caruso
      on May 29, 2013

      @Amy: it was already in 1st edition as well.

      Exalted has always been like that, and I don't think it should change. I love Exalted the way it is.

    46. Missing avatar

      Rob Townsend on May 29, 2013


      Maybe people are sick of it? Maybe since on multiple forums the devs have told us in detail how 3rd ed was getting away from the utter garbage pile of 2nd ed, we expected better. You can change these things, they're not real, there's nothing wrong with changing them.

    47. Amy Robson on May 29, 2013

      @Rob- Abyssals can also currently cause miscarriages in 2nd Ed., rape and forcible BDSM is already a theme, as are many other mwa-ha-ha evils, both high class and low. The deathlords, the abyssals and the Neverborn are expected to be multifaceted insights into some very dark and twisted themes; from the most typical and trope-like to the most classy and unexpected. It should come as no surprise that themes such as rape are going to be possible.
      I don't see why people are raising this as if it is some freshly emerging form of controversy. It's something that is already present within the 2nd Ed. lore. It's nothing new or unexpected.

    48. Missing avatar

      Rob Townsend on May 29, 2013


      In most modern stories the fear is general mind control, not mind control specifically for rape. This is mainly because Dracula, originally, was a big warning story about how the evil foreigners will rape your women, so yea, maybe distance ourselves a bit from that.

    49. Matías Nicolás Caruso
      on May 29, 2013

      The mechanics looks great, guys! I'm more and more excited about this game. =D

      As for the Abyssal Charms, that's how I've always read then since the first time (but it's cool you explained that). I like the way things are going, and I'll be looking forward for the Abyssal's book.

    50. Nick Pilon on May 29, 2013

      I absolutely disagree that they're "lazy shock value" evil. They're classic gothic romance/horror tropes - the irresitably seductive undead evil and/or anti-hero. From Dracula to Lost Girl (the Showcase TV show), this is kind of a Thing. And what I totally loved about the new Abyssals preview was that it threw away all the schlock and said "You know what? Classic gothic style. Crazy cosmic power. Go."