Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
Okay so after reading update 19 I have to say, you guys need to make sure you have good stress mamagement because I just READ it and I'm stressed out, you live it! Seriously though thank you for all the work and information you have been providing, I know that once we have the games/comics in hand it will be worth it. Sidebar, is that dick Ray gping to refund you to hire another artist or is that out of your pocket?
We are about due for an update, by your timescale: Good, bad or indifferent; please keep us informed!
This project remains one of my three most eagerly anticipated Kickstarters. I'm sad the manufacturer has been so lax in their communication and production efforts, but it's been great to read all your comments and stay in the loop. I hope your production samples meet expectations so we (especially you) can put this long nightmare of waiting with no meaningful results behind us!
@creator I understand see you there next year then ;)
We will not be attending GenCon this year for several reasons, but the main reason is that given we still have not received word of the final timeline for our project, we will not risk a repeat of last year without the final version (meaning non-defective) of the games to sell. Obviously, I would have liked to attend, but it just did not pan out this time. I am definitely pushing to host a booth there next year!
Hey, so far I still have not received the production samples. Stay tuned for next week's update, I appreciate your patience.
I am going to give the manufacturer until the end of the week to announce anything forthcoming. Regardless of whether they communicate any new information or not, I will be posting an update on the overall state of things the beginning of next week. I appreciate all of your patience as we continue to do our best to discover the information we are all looking for.
I didn't see you listed and GenCon this year. Are you making it and/or sharing a booth?
Did the production samples come in yet?
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I apologise once again for the tone of my previous post, you must be a lot more frustrated than us, so thank you for remaining positive.
I appreciate that the finishing line is a moving target at the moment, but WHERE POSSIBLE can you include any time scales in future posts? i.e. what is the expected turn around time for the current sample approval? When are you expecting/hoping to receive the final product to dispatch to us backers? If, there are any further issues with the manufacturer can you keep us informed of the resulting timeslips.
@Your Pal Dan
Thank you for your comments. I can't wait to see the painted minis on your shelf!
Yes, I will be posting updates in the update section soon. The most current news is I am still waiting to receive the full production samples. As soon as I have them I will be posting it in the update section.
I can appreciate your frustration as I too have been frustrated with the process. I can answer your questions:
1. Yes, as I had posted in the update in April, production copies were manufactured and delivered to us at Gen Con last year. We had received 250 games and it is from this small print run that BGG users have procured copies. However, as I had explained in the update, these copies had many problems which I explained to individuals who obtained these copies. You can see the proof of concept in the images of the update, where I posted photographs of one of the games that was sent.
2. The list is too long to mention here, but the full list of problems that existed with that print run can be found in the Mega Update from April. I have been told these problems have been fixed and will be available for me to review when the new production samples arrive. As frustrating as this is, I am actually still waiting for the manufacturer to confirm the actual date these samples are to be sent to us (they said it was going to be Monday this week, I expect it shouldn't be much longer now).
4. I certainly expect that the order is worth the money to the Chinese manufacturer! The intermediary for the manufacturer has apologized for these delays and said that it is inexplicable given that they have never experienced this sort of delay with them in 15 years.
I agree with your assessment that it should only take a very short time to produce the new copies, which is why I am also very frustrated given that I know that they were able to deliver the small print run to us at Gen Con last year. I really hope to have some answers to the reason for these seemingly unnecessary problems soon.
I emailed them again today, please have patience with me as I am doing everything I can to ensure that you guys get your products. Although I had intended to have these sent to you all much earlier than now, things, unfortunately, don't always go to plan.
Could you please start providing your updates through the Updates section? That way we would receive notifications. I don’t regularly read through the comments and it appears as though nothing has happened since April.
Sorry if my post appears harsh, I do not doubt your own integrity, just the poor responses you are getting from your manufacturer.
I am sorry to complain, but your comments have not been reassuring;
1. Can you confirm the comment from @YOUR PAL DAN that production copies have already had a limited release to BGG users (proof of concept would reassure KS backers).
2. If so, what was wrong with with these copies that prevented a full production run?
3. How many units have been ordered, including KS Pledges?
4. Is the order value worth a damn to the Chinese factory? as it seems to be treating you like a Muppet!
Once tooled, a production run of 1000 units should take hours not months, KS pledges rate less than a quarter of this amount!
I still cling to the hope that your comments are genuine, but fear that your production partner has taken our money, is stringing us along, and no longer cares about delivery!
I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG!!!!
To me, this is dead money, so delivery times don't really matter, as long as we get the finished game at some point. What I am missing from your updates is any realisistic delivery schedule.
CAN YOU OFFER ANY REASSURANCE?
Hey everyone. I have heard back from Lisa's husband (the intermediary for the manufacturer as I have explained before) and he has said: "I have been partners with *the manucturer* for almost 15 years. Not once have we ever had a circumstance like this. It is inexplicable and embarrassing and I am very sorry."
He emailed me also on Friday saying: "We are expecting to ship production samples Monday. I will confirm this as soon as I know it has left China."
I am waiting to hear from them today, as soon as I can get confirmation that they have been shipped, I will be posting another update.
For me, the fact that there's already been a production run (and people who own copies on BGG) gives me confidence that what Jason is saying is factual and we're simply waiting on tweaks and delays that are doubtlessly commonplace behind the scenes in standard retail. It sucks that the manufacturer is dragging their feet, but I would've been shocked to see this deliver in the time frame originally listed rather than the 12-18 months (which we may yet hit) I've seen so many tabletop KS campaigns take to fulfill. I will have these miniatures lovingly painted on my shelf before long.
Cant help starting to think that 237 orders to a Chinese factory is insignificant, and as such has ultra low priority. I do not want to start a wave of refund requests, but can you offer a reasonable guarantee that this project can/will be completed.
I don't doubt your sincerity in wanting this project to succeed, but the low volume should have been produced long ago if the manufacturer had good will.
Sorry to hear that you are suffering an information drought. Hang in there and let's all keep our fingers crossed that the full production samples meet your expectations.
Thank you for the thoughtful and eloquent comments. I am very glad to be here with you all and to share with you the updates about the project as they become available to me, whether good news or bad news. The issue that I am dealing with right now is that of "no news" which is an unfortunate and frustrating issue (other than the answer to your question below). The most current news, as you have already mentioned, is that about the manufacturer getting back to me about the hard copy proofs and/or full production samples. Well, as of right now I am still being told that they are going to be sending them to me, and I email them every day asking to get a tracking number. That's all the information that I have about that right now, which is frustrating because I want to give you guys updates but the story hasn't changed for longer than has been expected (a couple months now). Suffice it to say that this is not how I intended (nor ever intend) to do business with a manufacturer, as this makes everything more difficult for me when relating with our customers/Kickstarter backers. I am on the edge of my seat ready to update you all, but I can't do that until I have something to update everyone with. I will be emailing them again in the morning to further express how eager we all are to learn something new. I hope for the sake of all of us involved that we will have something to share soon.
To answer your question though, the difference between hard copy proofs and full production samples in our case: The hard copy proofs were just going to be of the "printed materials" (like the character mats) to check for color. Full production samples are a complete copy of the game made available to us to check all aspects for purposes of approving for mass production. The reason they had to skip hard copy proofs and go straight to full production samples is that they said it is the only way they can show us the gold metallic printing on the character mats and other printed materials. Other than that there has been no other new information at the moment.
Incarnate games, I was talking to a fellow board gamer and Kickstarter fan about projects and the level and type of communication that occurs during projects, especially those that hit snags along the way. They shared with me some thoughts about the nature of the relationship between creator and backer that made me think and I wanted to share them. The biggest take away was that as a backer we are willing sponsors who want to see your vision become real. We have placed our trust in you to carry that vision forward, and I think you are doing this very well under the current circumstances. In exchange for that trust we the backers are eager to hear about what is happening, both good and bad through updates. Take the current news about the manufacturer: delays are never fun to write about, but there is reason for the delay and it may be something cool. I would love to have seen an update about the manufacturer getting back to you along with a brief explanation of the difference between hard copy proofs and full production samples. This shares with us your fans more about the story of taking your baby from concept to completion, something we all want to see. In short, we are with you on this journey, try to let us share all of the experience.
I have heard back from the manufacturer this week. They informed me the reason it is taking longer than expected is that they are moving into full production samples vs. hard copy proofs so that I will be able to see the metallic printing. I hope they have everything right seeing as they have chosen to run production samples. I will be able to share them with you all as soon as I have them. Assuming they are correct, the possibility of seeing the game this year is very likely, Derek!
Thank you for your kind words! We are doing everything we can to ensure the process continues smoothly forward :D
Is there any chance of seeing the game this year?
Hats off to you guys for overcoming obstacles and moving ahead. You're crushing it from a communication standpoint. Looking forward to the game, and willing to wait as long as it takes to make it properly.
It seems that there are still some communication issues with the manufacturer. I was told that the hard copy proofs were going to be ready to send on May 18. We are still waiting to get confirmation that they have been sent. We have not received them yet, but our liason (Lisa) has appologized for the inconvenience. I am really hoping that they can get them sent to us soon and we can continue moving forward.
Any news on the proofs?
Awesome. I hope everything is up to par.
I heard back from the manufacturer and they are shipping the new hard copy proofs to us. I will be posting an update to include these hard copy proofs once they arrive. Stay tuned!
@Van Der Veken
I am waiting to hear back from the manufacturer. I will let you know what I learn from them this week!
Any news since the April 17 update?
agree with the others, communication is always appreciated, totally cool with delays. cant wait to play :)
Thank you for the update. That sounds like a lot of frustration to deal with. If you ever make anymore projects, then it might help to look at different manufacturers. The current one sounds a little incompetent to say the least. I can't believe they didn't check with you about anything before going full steam ahead. They definitely don't sound like good business partners.
Glad to hear you have a better liaison now - sorry to hear the manufacturer has been so regrettably lackadaisical in incorporating your requested changes and furnishing you with production samples.
Oh yes! It has been much better working with Lisa. I think Lisa is much more experienced and reliable than Jane. I noticed that right away with how she handled communication and information. That said, yes I believe she clearly understands the requirements, but I cannot say if they have had issues communicating these requirements with China as effectively or not. For your last question, yes I believe that she has communicated with me in a timely matter with issues as they would arise (much better, yes), however, I feel that it seems the manufacturer has been dragging their feet through this process which has made the lack of communication noticeable.
It's fine if you don't feel comfortable answering, but I'm curious - how has working with Lisa compared with working with Jane? Do you feel she has better understood the requirements as you've stated them? Has she been better at communicating issues as they arise?
Mega Update #18 is live. It is a lot of information, and I am here to answer questions.
Sounds great, I will wait patiently.
I am working on the update now. It may take me a day or two. If I finish it today I will post it tomorrow morning.
Thank you for your candor and I look forward to both the update and getting to play your finished product down the road.
Well, an update doesn't need to be good or bad per se, it needs to be new and informative.
I personally would like to know about the problems you're having and wouldn't mind more frequent updates even if they're only about the problems.
I will be compiling together the information that I have about the status of the project into an official update next week. I would prefer that updates have substantive information in the form of actual progress, this is why there has not been an official update yet, i.e. I do not want to waste any of your time explaining all the problems, rather, I would like to only be presenting the solutions. I agree, though, that the lack of updates is less than ideal. I do not want to disappoint you all by providing the excruciating details about the delays and the reasons behind them, but I will present it to you all, such as it is, beginning next week. FYI the manufacturer is still unable to give me an ETA until the issues are worked out, which I will demonstrate in the update, BUT I will also be sharing some fun news as well.
Incarnate games, I appreciate that you are having delays, and that you are being diligent in making sure the product is up to standard. I am however not encouraged by your lack of announcements to your backers about these delays. I understand that you may not have an ETA for us, but I feel like I should not have to go digging in the comments section to glean nuggets of information. It has been close to 4 months since the last update, and this seems excessively long for a project that is now in its second month beyond the announced delivery date. Can we please get an official update on this project?
Any chance of an update soon?
Absolutely. The quality of the miniatures and the other components should be the highest priority. Thanks for staying in touch. Can’t wait to see what all of the components will look like!
Hey everyone. The manufacturer has been dragging their feet while getting the production of the game just perfect. We will not accept anything less. That is why it is taking a little longer than we anticipated. In the end, we want this to be an exceptional quality, premier game. We feel that is what our backers want and deserve.
Enthusiastic backer over in Western Colorado - looking very much forward to seeing some of the final components for this game! Hope things are still running smoothly with the manufacturer. I can't wait to get this game to the table at my weekly game night!