by Cliffhanger Productions
I don't care about any other game from Cliffhanger other than Shadowrun Online. I would prefer you update Shadowrun Online with Shadowrun Online news. I am already somewhat disturbed that you didn't meet a delivery goal established during your Kickstarter period. I understand slips but why are you releasing a different game before releasing SRO. your other game wasn't announced until considerably later than SRO....
Did I miss something? Two weeks since your Sep, 23rd comment are more than two weeks. I read something about free version of ÆRENA for backers?
I'm thinking I should have bought the new books.
@Cliffhanger Where can I request a refund?
I'm frustrated with cliffhanger for not revealing the "original plan to release SRO three months after aerena," (and not even mentioning aerena at all) and initially giving such an utterly unreasonable estimated delivery date, but the game seems cool and this is kickstarter, so I'm still excited.
What seems ridiculous to me is that in the same update they tell us the project is delayed, they ask us to register for a german-only website to vote for SRO in a Content Award survey. What content? the game doesn't exist and will not for a long time (even IF they manage to avoid further delays)
Utterly NO interest in a DOTA clone.
Please at least show us what you've been working on for SRO. Some cool art would reassure me that SRO still remains a priority.You HAVE started working on it, right?
I'm glad I didn't invest too much into this game. I figured some of the promises and goals were pretty pie-in-the-sky, but I always have rose-tinted glasses for the IPs I love. I'm pretty unhappy with long delays, and still relatively little to show for the game. I'm also not interested in your DOTA/ League of Legends clone. Come on, get a move on!
I can't speak for everyone, but I am glad to wait as long as it takes to get the best possible game. I would much rather wait for a more polished product than have a bunch of corners cut to get it out more quickly.
Thanks! That's awesome, I really appreciated your effort to find a way to deliver content to everyone, including people who didn't want to deal with the free to play model, and I hope that your effort will be copied by others in the future indeed. I'm really looking forward to seeing Shadowrun Online next year :)
Of course we won't forget the campaigners :)
And no, the investor really does not have any say on this level. by the way, campaign game business model are becoming all the rage I hear. We set a trend :)
I'm fine as long as these investors do not override some of the features promised during the Kickstarter, in particular the "campaign" players. I pledged at "campaign ganger" and wouldn't have pledged for the micro-transaction model - don't forget us, that's all I ask.
Thanks for the explanation!
Delays are always frustrating, the longer the more so.
- Campaign book- it is in edit with Catalyst, I am not sure when they will get around to finishing that one, as they have been pretty busy. We will let you know what CGL's plans are on that as we get them.
Hi all and thank you for your understanding and comments. Here are few points to prevent misunderstandings:
- JAO wasn't in cue before Shadowrun, it was already released at that point, we just re-released on Steam
- ÆRENA is NOT taking away any resources or money, in fact the joint tech meant we could put more resources into something that SRO profits from. This actually helped us to broaden the technical base for SRO. So rather than financing ÆRENA with SRO money it is the other way round.
- All SRO backers will get a keycode for a free version of ÆRENA on Steam (which is where it is first released), we will announce this when we have the setup ready (should be within the next two weeks). Of course we will invite ALL our backers to the game!
- To clarify - we do have two teams: one for SRO and one that was doing JAO and is now focusing on ÆRENA. The tech teams joint forces for a while, but now we are branching off SRO again from the common base.
If SRO is now taking a backseat to ÆRENA (or leveraged as you say) - then I would expect the Kickstart backers of SRO to be in on the leverage as well. If the engine is common, why not give us ÆRENA to play while waiting for SRO?
guess i'll have to wait an see. :|
@JR -- I hear what you're saying. And if they had presented that to us by saying, "We are going to use some of the KS money to fund the tech that will also help us develop this other game" (like they did with JAO) that would be different. But they didn't think to mention it until they decided to release the other game, and announce at the same time that they would be delaying SRO again. At this point, we are looking at close to a year's delay from initial estimates. I realize that deadlines get pushed, and things happen, but I find it a little incredible that between July 2012 and Sept 2013 they didn't think to mention that at least a portion of the funding was going to a completely separate game. If they had put those devs to work on SRO, they would have still had the tech to share with Aerena, but could have done so after they had fulfilled their promises to us. Instead, they built a game no one asked for and delayed the one we actually funded.
But, again, it's a moot point now. Hopefully Aerena will do ok and they'll be able to recoup some of the development cost to use for SRO. And, I hope, they won't be announcing any other surprise projects.
I'll take a game that's good over a game that's released too early, any day of the week :)
I have no affiliation with the company, so take my reply with a grain of salt.
Its standard practice in software companies to have multiple projects running in parallel.
Each project has its own budget and team.
Sometimes though, what one team makes, with its budget, can be used by another team.
So the logic in Aerena, which was paid for and made by Aerena team, can be "copy pasted" into SRO.
On an unrelated note, any news on the campaign book? Or more plot spoilers?
I need to make sure to wrap up my personal campaign appropriately :P
I am also a little confused about Aerena and how this fits into the whole production scheme. It sounds strange that developing Aerena somehow reduces the development cost for SRO unless you're somehow using it to fund SRO. Can you please give us a little more information on how that all works. I give you guys the benefit of the doubt for sure, but with the information right now it sounds like it was actually SRO money being used to fund Aerena.
Thanks for the info as always and looking forward to more!
I have to say that I'm a bit irritated to find out that you are delaying the release of an already delayed game in part because you spent time and money working on another game in addition to SRO. We knew about JAO, but not this one. I don't really see how developing this other game could have not had an impact on SRO development. I kind of feel like I was tricked into backing Aerena. So do you have many other projects in the line that we don't know about? Anything else that is taking time away from SRO?
Not really feeling a lot of confidence in this now, guys.
I'm patient & able to wait for the game to come out. I guess this means yet even more of a wait before any physical rewards get sent out too. I hope you guys have a good plan for address updates & such, that way all the rewards get to the right places.
At this rate I won't be able to wear the hoodie for at least another year, because it's gonna be too hot where I live when the thing finally shows up...
I'd much rather wait for a good game than be impatient for a crappy game.
Waiting is fine. No big deal. I'm actually not sure if I've ever been part of a kickstater that wasn't delayed in some way or another. For the most part, the only reasons that games DON'T get delayed is because they have a publisher that forces them out unfinished, couple this with the fact that most people doing a kickstater have never made a game in this way before (crowd-sourced with no publisher breathing down their neck) and you should pretty much always get a game that is delayed until it is the quality that its creators think is suitable (which is how it should be).
I don't think there's much impact moving to Q1 of next year. All the new consoles and games come out at Christmas and most people will be playing those games. Its probably good timing, in fact..
I usually try to be very patient with kickstarter hangups, but I'm a bit frustrated that in your campaign you didn't mention that you had TWO games in line for production ahead of SRO (JAO and this Aether thing). That would have been an important thing to mention. I'm still excited, but a bit grumpy.
>_< Well, thanks for putting it on the table.
Thanks for the transparency. Delays are understandable and so is the need for a little extra money to continue to make a game you are passionate about. Looking forward to seeing more as the game develops.
*SSR = SR:R (Shadowrun Returns)
Fine by me. Gives some breathing room between SSR and you and typically MMOs need the extra time to cook anyway. Balance in multiplayer games and a smooth user-friendly experience with match-making & grouping et al are killer to get right. These days you don't want to launch a ftp online game with sub-par or unfinished systems. The competition is just too brutal and people will never come back to it, no matter how hard you work to shore it up.
Get the core, fun (addictive) user experience right, out of the gate, and you will build a loyal fan-base. Create a game which respects the gamer and the value of their time, i.e. polished, playable and complete with what you're able to ship at launch and you will have a genuine success on your hands.
Of course you could always soften us up with a few juicy morsels of concept art ;) *grumblegrumblegrumblebloodylategamedevsgrumblegrumble*
Thanks for the reassuring details Cliffhangers! As ET3D said, I hope it won't affect your independance in the long run and you'll keep making the games you want.
I was skeptical from the start if this option would have to be done considering the amount of funding you had to start with. Grats on setting the agreement too without having to sacrafice development decisions. Thanks for the heads up on the delay so I know I'll have plenty more free time before release.
I've been working on my German so that I could get a job with you guys and help out with this! Just kidding, good luck! What would you guys say that you still need more of other than time?
Keep up the good work.
the quiet period is over, so we can speak again ;)
Good luck & thanks a lot for the swift information
At least for bad news you break your "vow of silence" ;-) comment - Cliffhanger Productions on Sep 2:
"Regarding the "SRR release period", we have promised to stay quiet for a full quarter regarding PR."
Thank you for the update. Keep up the great work all around!
I agree with Xodetaetl. The delay by itself is fine, but it's always worrisome when a developer loses its independence. It's possible that at this point the investor isn't interfering with the game, but for an investor the aspect of making money typically trumps other things, which in the long run might affect the games.
It will NOT affect our majority stake...damn the one word you would have wanted to be careful with :)
We cannot publish the exact nature of our contract with the investor as you no doubt understand. Let's say this:
- It is not a huge sum as investments go (below 2 Million)
- It will now affect our majority stake in the company
- They have absolutely NO influence on the creative side of things. They do have a say on certain business decisions, but nothing we can see that would affect our work with regards to Shadowrun
We thought about another KS, but felt that simply asking fans for more money with an unfinished project is not the right way to do it. This way we actually use our own money as it should be, since the delay is our responsibility, no matter how valid our reasons are.
I'd like more information on your investor, how much they own of the company, how much weight they have on the company's decision. Because I only want to back independents. I'd have preferred you to run a second kickstarter for SRO than selling yourself to private parties.
It's fairly typical for Kickstarters to be delayed and MMOs to be delayed also. You are both! Far better you release in a more refined fashion and take extra time to do so than crash on beta launch. A couple of the more recent MMOs have launched rather catastrophically.
If you have the bucks to spend more time on SRO and give us a better game, then by all means, please do :)
Just a question : Does the new investor possess the majority of the company ?
Just make a great game. If it takes longer to get it right,so be it. The worst thing to do would be to rush a bad game into production just to meet an initial deadline.
Thanks. Now I won't feel like a chump if I decide to increase my pledge between now and the end of Q1.
No, what we are saying is that we will be able to extend the scope, but not everything of this extension will be in by Q1 - as it is an online game we will be adding more stuff down the line and improve on the game further.
There is one thing I would like to be clear on - are we saying that what gets delivered at the end of Q1 2014 is likely to be scaled back in terms of scope *despite* the securing of an investor and the delay?
Thanks for the kind words and continued trust. We promise to make the best of the time we have :)
Thanks for the update.
I'm fine with delays as long as they are justified. Keep on trucking, guys.
Hmm, let's hope that ÆRENA is not the "Stargate Resistance" to FireSky's "Stargate Worlds" ..