Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
3 years later.
Pans are happening.
The pans are indeed happening.
I've always been a believer, it's like waiting for the rapture to happen.
Excellent to hear some positive news of pans happening. Still sad that there will be no villain hilt, but the normal one is still cool enough.
Really, are pans happening?
New update up, with explanation.
Things are moving along. If you're still here, this is nothing but a good thing. If you don't care, you don't care. If you're still mad about this, then you SERIOUSLY need to switch to decaf and reevaluate your life.
It's happening. Pans are happening. This is a good thing.
I wonder if there's a better way to get a conversation started with @Nelly or @James?
Be polite, don't be aggressive, try to have a conversation rather than outright attacking them. If I had enough money to go up and talk to him and see how the process is going in person, I would, but that's just me and I tend to be politely high energy.
I agree that somebody needs to provide some on site information about what's happening, but a lynch mob will accomplish nothing of value.
Jeez Louise. I guess the only way to get a response is to post personal information. Well maybe not exactly, because that's not allowed. Of course it's *really* easy to find that information (especially for ... let's see ... what does it say at the top of the KickStarter screen? ... Ahh there it is, James Brown and MorlockEnterprises.com), so maybe it's OK to spell out the *methods* for finding that personal information? I don't know ... what do you think?
This is why I don't loose faith in Kickstarters.
My rolling pin with an inlaid infinity symbol arrived today. Exactly as promised, on time, no problems. It can be and is being done.
Your monthly deposit of $0.00 for 3 years with an interest rate of 1.00% compounded Monthly
with an initial starting balance of $46,000.00
Year Balance 1 $46,462.11
Year Balance 2 $46,928.87
Year Balance 3 $47,400.32
Final Savings Balance: $47,400.32
So...not a huge amount, Phil, but some.
I wonder how much interest has been made on that $46k by now...
Basically, you've been getting a 46k credit and don't even have the decency to give us anything in return, not even answers to our questions. Imagine what would have happened if you'd have done that with a bank.
It's not too much to ask for a REGULAR status upgrade. That's the least you can do. It doesn't matter if it is a "5/300 pans done", "27/300 pans done" or anything like it.
The point is not that you have to show us a finished product within a week, but if you show NOTHING, it's your own fault to be accused to being thieves and liars. Show progress. Be consistent in it. That's all we ask for, and asked for, repeatedly. And it's not hard.
And we begin our 3rd year together....
You tell *us*. What would it take to get you to post?
Thank you for responding to Drew with genuine answers to a few important questions. It is frustrating that you, and Jim, apparently share these answers with individuals, but elect not to share these answers online. So I write today in hopes that you will share a bit more in the Comments section, in the future.
I get it that "posting does not come naturally to Jim." I get it that the comments were distracting Jim, and that for the sake of the project Jim would focus on making the pans happen and posts updates when he feels like it. Many projects separate the production staff from running the rest of the business. I am thrilled that you have taken over the communications part of this project. But most of all, I am thrilled that (through Drew) you have shared these decisions with your backers!
As for the comments section, you say that you have no solution to defuse the anger. The fact is that there is a solution. And it's really, really easy. Communicate. It's as simple as that. Really. Other Kickstarter projects have run into significant delays. But they communicate, and the anger is not there. The vitriol goes away. You don't have to publish formal Updates. But reply to people, so your backers know that someone is out there, listening, and being responsive.
You say frequently that you're doing the best you can. Respectfully, I suggest that the best would be to log in. Maybe daily for a little while, but certainly weekly, and answer a few questions. It wouldn't take much time at all. Five minutes. Tell us how often you plan to log in. So we know what to expect.
About the venting. We don't do it to make ourselves feel better. We do it because we keep coming to the project page looking for *anything* ... any sign that someone is listening to us. That someone is going to tell us ... anything. We're trying to get you to respond. ... Sure I get it that venting doesn't work. But for years now, the calm well-reasoned posts didn't work either.
You tell *us*. What would it take to get you to post once a week? And answer some really easy questions?
Regarding the reply Drew got below:
It's a shame that they feel that the "comment section has been over run by hate". There's a difference between (in harsh words) complaining about the lack of information and threatening people. I obviously haven't seen any threatening posts, but maybe those were removed by Kickstarter then.
Nelly, if you read this:
You say that you are not looking for any flame wars. That you are not trying to steal or money. But let's put it this way:
- We've put $46k into this project, and for the last two years we've been kept out of the loop. That means we spent money without seeing any returns. That's why we feel robbed, and that won't change unless we get information in return.
- You say that you answer comments/messages on your spare time. Well. We're writing them on our spare time. I am pretty sure 15-30 minutes weekly would solve a lot of the comments. Most of us are asking the same things anyway.
Why didn't you just come clean with all this about 1,5 years ago? Before everything turned into a flame war. As for those "lot of manufacturing changes" - did they all result in an update here?
Why won't you post updates slightly more often? Five minutes saying "nothing has changed" every two weeks is easy - and frankly that would help tons.
I don't wish you, or James, anything bad. I backed this project because it was (using your own words) silly and fun. It still is. And i really would enjoy those pans.
And this is Kickstarter - we can not expect a project to become reality, we know that. But we should be able to expect to see the creator TRY.
When we don't get updates or replies (even on emails) in more than a month, even though we clearly see you have logged in, we feel even more cheated and abandoned.
In case the above text got too messy:
I want this project to become reality. But most of all, I want to be IN the loop. There are still MANY questions that need an answer.
Please - could you at the very least make a lengthy reply with the since-long-promised schedule? Never mind the dates, start with the order of everything. Please!
I finally got an email response from them....it seems as though they've decided--privately--to just not keep in touch. So us not hearing anything or getting responses, is 100% intentional. My advice to everyone here would be to either request your money back if that is your desired course, or completely forget about this project entirely, and then one day, you'll hopefully get a present on your doorstep.
James Brown says:
Good Day Drew!
That is a very good question. The updates are happening as things change. I know it is not as frequently as people would like, but posting does not come naturally to Jim. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is the best we can do right now.
This project has had a lot of manufacturing changes. As this project moved forward and started to change, Jim received a lot of flack for misleading people, for being a liar, being a cheat, or a thief (what you read publicly is actually nicer than some of what has been received privately). The comments were distracting Jim from focusing on what needed to be done to move the production forward.
For the sake of moving this project forward it was decided privately that Jim would only focus on making the pans happen and posts updates as things changed with tangible results. I have taken over responding to most private messages, emails, and comments made directly to updates as I have time.
As for the comment section, it has been over run by hate and I have no solution to defuse the anger. The comments are not helping move things forward on our end, but I like to think it helps some people feel better. I have let that stand as it is as a place for people to vent (I am monitoring them, as I ask Kickstarter delete any comments that threatening the well being of me, my family, other backers, or publishing our personal information).
I would like to make it clear that both Jim and I know that we are the cause of people's anger. We are doing the best we can with what we have. I know it is not good enough for some people. I also know it is appreciated by others.
In the end we are not looking for flame wars, or to steal money. We are looking to make some pans with sword hilts for handles. It is silly, and fun, and this project will be completed! We will not stop until it is. If people haven't figure that out by now, nothing I can say will change that.
I want to thank you for your support and understanding while we move forward. I think the sample grips will be in soon, so another update will happen as soon as it comes in and is tested!
Shalon, that's really terrible. I'm so sorry.
Finally got a response so I think it's safe to assume James has at least looked at these comments.
So.....3,000 pounds of cast iron were delivered a month ago.
That's terrible, Shalon. Sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss, Shalon.
This was supposed to be a Christmas present to my fiance' 2 years ago. He just died. I was wondering if I will ever receive this awesome pan that he would have loved to own.
James, answer your messages!!!
It was August when you said the Villain hilts were no longer being produced and you're still ignoring my messages asking what I can get in place of it.
Stop avoiding the issue. It's not helping anyone.
We are now 2 YEARS pasted the promised delivery date.
Hey James. Do you get a sense of the hostility that's brewing among your backers? Yeah, me too. I think the anger is pretty real. One question ... do you understand that this anger is completely your fault?
This isn't about the delay. It's not about unreasonable whining backers. And it's not at all about things that happened to you that were out of your control. I'm not sure you get that. I think that *you* think that we're unhappy even though this delay "isn't your fault." Bzzzt. It's. Not. About. The. Delay. The anger is directly attributable to YOUR decision to not communicate. No foundry made that decision for you. No relative made that decision for you. No bank or lawyer made that decision for you. That's on you. You, yourself, and only you.
I'm backed several projects that have been late. There's a lot of anxiety, but nothing like what we have here. And that's for a single, simple reason. Those project owners talk to their backers. And you ... don't.
That's why this project is being talked about as one of the worst Kickstarter failures ever.
I, for one, remain completely baffled as to why you would make this happen. What *possible* reason is there for such stunningly insulting, disrespectful and inconsiderate radio silence? What could you *possibly* be thinking? Seriously. Please. Tell us.
I bought my pans in your online shop after told customers to go there. It has been 2 YEARS you thief. I cannot believe that you put out these updates and pretend to be oblivious to the disdain we all have for you for ripping us off!
I've requested a refund of my $175 several times with no luck. Lana, if you receive a refund, please let us all know. Good luck and happy holidays.
I've decided I don't want one anymore.
Please refund my $70.
Wow, seems like progress. Still, stunningly uncommicative, and oblivious to your backers. Let's try to figure out what you said.
1. This website? You're ignoring this completely ... http://combatkitchenware.morlockenterprises.com/ Right?
2. "The cast iron pans are currently in production at the foundry. I should see almost a ton of pans ... about a month from [September]." OK, October turned into December, and you don't actually have 'em yet, but I think the latest update are these pans.
3. "From there they will need grips and final packaging before they are ready to go out." "I have a timeline coming for the grips then it’s just season and assemble for the single and double handed cast iron." OK, this means that the cast iron pans in the photo are NOT going to be shipped as is. The grips still need to be built, and then shipped to to you. You have a timeline for that, but it's a secret so far. And then you'll put the grips on the pans. And then you season the pans. And then you can ship your first pans to backers. Everything right so far?
4. "The Teflon pans will be a bit more delayed." Which means maybe 2015. Not trying to be sarcastic, but in this one-month-equals-three-months world, a "bit delayed" is probably close to a year.
5. Still on the Teflon pans, "the castings came out a bit too heavy for the Teflon pans. The pans I had spec’d out went through a redesign ... shaved a few ounces off of the pan." Ah, so the cast iron handles weigh more than the pan, so the pan flops over and won't sit on the stove. "What this means is that I have to send out a redesign and purchase an additional set of tooling." What this means is that you haven't solved this problem yet, but that a redesign is on the to do list. And then you'll figure out how to actually make the Teflon pans. And then you'll have 'em made. Schedule for all this? OK maybe not 2015. Right?
5. "Next the rogue pans are still chugging along. I had some issues with anodize getting a nice surface finish ... they tell me that they have it sorted and I can see the results in about a week from Monday [September 29]. ... Then the rogues will be ready for grip production and assembly!" OK, so that didn't happen. I have no idea what to guess from no action plus radio silence. @James ... care to fill us in?
6. "A lot is happening now and I will be sure to keep you guys in the loop as the project chugs along." Which means the opposite of what he said.
Have I got all this right James?
2 years and only now is an actual sign of a pan. But since I ordered a Teflon pan, which is delayed of course, I'll probably get it just in time to not give a flying frack anymore. I had a better chance at an actual return on my investment if I used the money on scratch off tickets.
James usually logged in every 3-4 weeks (he didn't make an update this often though), but we're now closing in on 2 months since his last visit.
He doesn't even bother reading the comments anymore.
Seeing the "be respectful and considerate" link next to the "post comment" button makes me feel sick.
I don't really feel being treated respectfully by this guy, at all.
2 years. That's just plain ridiculous.
Reality is we won't find an attorney to take the case for the amount we would win.
In order to sue it will have to be each backer filing a small claims case and pursuing him one by one. Even if we only get a couple of dozen out of the 651 to start filing it might get some cast iron moving.
Just google how to file a claim where you are and get the paperwork moving.
I'd be happy just getting my money back. Let's face it guys, we've been had. If there is a lawsuit to follow, I'd like to be included. These guys are frauds - plain and simple.
How about instead of a getting a lawyer, we just hire someone to track him down and confront him.
Sigh, no update in 2 months.
Happy two-year anniversary...
Seriously James. What part of your lame cosplay wannabe brain thinks it's "OK" to pretend to run a business by taking $46K from investors and then NOT COMMUNICATE. I know you're feeling sorry for yourself because of all the trouble you've been through, and how horrible it is that these "backers" just keep whining and complaining. DUDE. When will you GET IT that we're NOT WHINING AND COMPLAINING about how long it's taking!!! The PROBLEM is that you're not telling us ANYTHING. If you were in 10th grade, I'd give you a pass on this. But you're a pretend ADULT and you should be TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
I can hear you ... "Look this is how I work, and I've been doing it this way for TWO YEARS NOW, and you should be used to it. This is what you should expect." NO! This is NOT what I expect, and this is NOT what you promised to do. I do NOT expect to get lied to and blown off. How about it you just MAN UP for a minute and COMMUNICATE. Tell us what the HELL is going on.
Of course we all know that Kickstarter won't do anything to you, but it does NOT cost much to file a suit in small claims court. And if you think your budget on this is already extremely tight, figure out what it'll look like when you have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself. And if you blow off a judge the way you're blowing us off, things Won't Go Well.
Jeez, how hard could it FLIPPING BE! Seriously.
Does someone stateside fancy starting a Kickstarter project to raise cash for legal action? :P
I still belive you will make this thing so pleas dont go into hiding james
I was thinking about this project and how I could incorporate the result with a Halloween costume. Hoping to hear some new exciting updates soon!
James, on September 20th, you wrote:
"But they tell me that they have it sorted and I can see the results in about a week from Monday. Fingers crossed."
This means that you expected some results - good or bad - at least three weeks ago.
This ALSO means that we - the ones that funded all this - ALSO expected to hear about those results at least three weeks ago.
Instead, you keep on with your every-45-days-or-so updates. Can you not see that this is a problem?
Or can we simply expect the next update in approximately 1-2 weeks, where you don't address the issue of lack of information at all, but instead make a funny joke related to a random role-playing scene?
So exciting, coming up on the 2 year anniversary in just under 2 months.
Ditto for the DragonCon attendees. Really ... he says he met KS backers there ... somebody PLEEZE ... tell us what you found out.
Can we get a voice from someone who saw him at dragon con? Impressions, answered and unanswered questions, more pictures of the pans...?
Three weeks ago, you wrote this:
"A lot is happening now and I will be sure to keep you guys in the loop as the project chugs along."
You were also expecting to see some results "a week from monday", which is roughly 1,5 weeks ago. Any news on that?
I think this is the first project I've backed that's going to hit a 2-years-since-funding-with-no-product-delivered anniversary. And I've backed feature length movies. Anybody want to take bets on whether we'll see another update before 12/13?