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You know, it's been two and a half years since this kickstarter was supposed to deliver and yet, I'm actually feeling optomistic at this point it will carry through eventually. I ordered a full set of the cast iron pans which were supposed to be a wedding gift for two close friends and while they might not have gotten their gift in anything like a timely manner, I can at least say that they're still married. It might have been ironically awkward if they had gotten divorced right as the pans finally arrived. At this point, all I can think is that miracles can happen and like a phoenix from the ashes, all this waiting might finally pay off.
Yay! My trivet is coming!
Mike Flynn? Any joy?
Well there were apparently some delays in getting the pans shipped, but I do have my tracking number now. They are supposed to arrive on 07/02/2015.
It just got easier to sue
I finally received a response (from Nelly) to my various requests over the years... They offered to fulfill my request for a refund, or to ship the pans to me as-is, unfinished, as I had also requested (I can finish them myself). After a little bit of back and forth with Nelly via email, I decided to go with the unfinished pans to get this all over with. She told me she would be able to ship them shortly after 06/17/2015. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and will post again when I hear something else.
There's been... An update.
His Instagram has a picture of the pans in the back of his car. Posted 26 minutes ago. Hopefully some progress...
Wonder what the karma is for screwing 651 people out of their money?
I've given up on this project. My money has been spent on God knows what. I feel like a fool taken on a ride... I really hoped to get this delivered as my brothers birthday gift years ago. He thinks I was just lying about my gift to him in an attempt to be cheap now.
Someone, somewhere has one:
Starting to check daily at this point to see if an update has been made. It has been a quarter of a year since the last update - which I believe is the longest break in the history of this campaign. Please provide us with some sort of news soon. Your last update had me pretty stoked.
"Pans are happening", anyone?
What a great article Ryan. And that project was for a whole heck of a lot more money than this project's $46K. The author did a good job of explaining the human side of both the backer and project creator perspectives. There's a part of me that has sympathy for the project creator who is simply naïve and inexperienced, well intentioned but clumsy, and overwhelmed by his accidental success. I've backed many projects that went through that ... some that were extremely delayed and some that never delivered. Fortunately, in most of those the project creator was open and transparent about what was going on, and the backers supported them despite the disappointment. But another part of me is frankly livid about the stunning arrogance, hubris, intentional disrespect and unmitigated gall of someone (@James) who has decided, deliberately, not to communicate with backers. That's flat out unacceptable.
BTW, I am stunned and disappointed that there are so many in the cosplay/game convention community who are willing to give this guy a free ride. In *my* professional community, if someone pulls a stunt like this, they would be out.
Good article in the nytimes made me think of y'all. Personally I'm still on this side of positive, although I agree with most of you that regular communication would be appreciated. It's just better business and common courtesy. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-the-rage-of-the-jilted-crowdfunder.html
Two questions. 1) How do I update my address? 2) Any SWAG about when there will be news about the stainless steel (not non-stick) pans?
Dude! Anybody home!?
Well, maybe we're back to the County prosecutors office. Or maybe Commonwealth of Virginia? Like I said before, the home address and phone number just aren't that hard to find.
But really, GEEZ. How hard is it to just tell people what you're doing? This isn't laziness. 2 minutes once a month is nothing. This is arrogance, guilt and "not my job" combining in a horrible perfect storm of avoiding your responsibilities.
Last login April 11. How about an update? It has been a while...
(Nope, pans aren't happening)
Nope, not believing that pans are happening
3 years later.
Pans are happening.
The pans are indeed happening.
I've always been a believer, it's like waiting for the rapture to happen.
Excellent to hear some positive news of pans happening. Still sad that there will be no villain hilt, but the normal one is still cool enough.
Really, are pans happening?
New update up, with explanation.
Things are moving along. If you're still here, this is nothing but a good thing. If you don't care, you don't care. If you're still mad about this, then you SERIOUSLY need to switch to decaf and reevaluate your life.
It's happening. Pans are happening. This is a good thing.
I wonder if there's a better way to get a conversation started with @Nelly or @James?
Be polite, don't be aggressive, try to have a conversation rather than outright attacking them. If I had enough money to go up and talk to him and see how the process is going in person, I would, but that's just me and I tend to be politely high energy.
I agree that somebody needs to provide some on site information about what's happening, but a lynch mob will accomplish nothing of value.
Jeez Louise. I guess the only way to get a response is to post personal information. Well maybe not exactly, because that's not allowed. Of course it's *really* easy to find that information (especially for ... let's see ... what does it say at the top of the KickStarter screen? ... Ahh there it is, James Brown and MorlockEnterprises.com), so maybe it's OK to spell out the *methods* for finding that personal information? I don't know ... what do you think?
This is why I don't loose faith in Kickstarters.
My rolling pin with an inlaid infinity symbol arrived today. Exactly as promised, on time, no problems. It can be and is being done.
Your monthly deposit of $0.00 for 3 years with an interest rate of 1.00% compounded Monthly
with an initial starting balance of $46,000.00
Year Balance 1 $46,462.11
Year Balance 2 $46,928.87
Year Balance 3 $47,400.32
Final Savings Balance: $47,400.32
So...not a huge amount, Phil, but some.
I wonder how much interest has been made on that $46k by now...
Basically, you've been getting a 46k credit and don't even have the decency to give us anything in return, not even answers to our questions. Imagine what would have happened if you'd have done that with a bank.
It's not too much to ask for a REGULAR status upgrade. That's the least you can do. It doesn't matter if it is a "5/300 pans done", "27/300 pans done" or anything like it.
The point is not that you have to show us a finished product within a week, but if you show NOTHING, it's your own fault to be accused to being thieves and liars. Show progress. Be consistent in it. That's all we ask for, and asked for, repeatedly. And it's not hard.
And we begin our 3rd year together....
You tell *us*. What would it take to get you to post?
Thank you for responding to Drew with genuine answers to a few important questions. It is frustrating that you, and Jim, apparently share these answers with individuals, but elect not to share these answers online. So I write today in hopes that you will share a bit more in the Comments section, in the future.
I get it that "posting does not come naturally to Jim." I get it that the comments were distracting Jim, and that for the sake of the project Jim would focus on making the pans happen and posts updates when he feels like it. Many projects separate the production staff from running the rest of the business. I am thrilled that you have taken over the communications part of this project. But most of all, I am thrilled that (through Drew) you have shared these decisions with your backers!
As for the comments section, you say that you have no solution to defuse the anger. The fact is that there is a solution. And it's really, really easy. Communicate. It's as simple as that. Really. Other Kickstarter projects have run into significant delays. But they communicate, and the anger is not there. The vitriol goes away. You don't have to publish formal Updates. But reply to people, so your backers know that someone is out there, listening, and being responsive.
You say frequently that you're doing the best you can. Respectfully, I suggest that the best would be to log in. Maybe daily for a little while, but certainly weekly, and answer a few questions. It wouldn't take much time at all. Five minutes. Tell us how often you plan to log in. So we know what to expect.
About the venting. We don't do it to make ourselves feel better. We do it because we keep coming to the project page looking for *anything* ... any sign that someone is listening to us. That someone is going to tell us ... anything. We're trying to get you to respond. ... Sure I get it that venting doesn't work. But for years now, the calm well-reasoned posts didn't work either.
You tell *us*. What would it take to get you to post once a week? And answer some really easy questions?
Regarding the reply Drew got below:
It's a shame that they feel that the "comment section has been over run by hate". There's a difference between (in harsh words) complaining about the lack of information and threatening people. I obviously haven't seen any threatening posts, but maybe those were removed by Kickstarter then.
Nelly, if you read this:
You say that you are not looking for any flame wars. That you are not trying to steal or money. But let's put it this way:
- We've put $46k into this project, and for the last two years we've been kept out of the loop. That means we spent money without seeing any returns. That's why we feel robbed, and that won't change unless we get information in return.
- You say that you answer comments/messages on your spare time. Well. We're writing them on our spare time. I am pretty sure 15-30 minutes weekly would solve a lot of the comments. Most of us are asking the same things anyway.
Why didn't you just come clean with all this about 1,5 years ago? Before everything turned into a flame war. As for those "lot of manufacturing changes" - did they all result in an update here?
Why won't you post updates slightly more often? Five minutes saying "nothing has changed" every two weeks is easy - and frankly that would help tons.
I don't wish you, or James, anything bad. I backed this project because it was (using your own words) silly and fun. It still is. And i really would enjoy those pans.
And this is Kickstarter - we can not expect a project to become reality, we know that. But we should be able to expect to see the creator TRY.
When we don't get updates or replies (even on emails) in more than a month, even though we clearly see you have logged in, we feel even more cheated and abandoned.
In case the above text got too messy:
I want this project to become reality. But most of all, I want to be IN the loop. There are still MANY questions that need an answer.
Please - could you at the very least make a lengthy reply with the since-long-promised schedule? Never mind the dates, start with the order of everything. Please!
I finally got an email response from them....it seems as though they've decided--privately--to just not keep in touch. So us not hearing anything or getting responses, is 100% intentional. My advice to everyone here would be to either request your money back if that is your desired course, or completely forget about this project entirely, and then one day, you'll hopefully get a present on your doorstep.
James Brown says:
Good Day Drew!
That is a very good question. The updates are happening as things change. I know it is not as frequently as people would like, but posting does not come naturally to Jim. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is the best we can do right now.
This project has had a lot of manufacturing changes. As this project moved forward and started to change, Jim received a lot of flack for misleading people, for being a liar, being a cheat, or a thief (what you read publicly is actually nicer than some of what has been received privately). The comments were distracting Jim from focusing on what needed to be done to move the production forward.
For the sake of moving this project forward it was decided privately that Jim would only focus on making the pans happen and posts updates as things changed with tangible results. I have taken over responding to most private messages, emails, and comments made directly to updates as I have time.
As for the comment section, it has been over run by hate and I have no solution to defuse the anger. The comments are not helping move things forward on our end, but I like to think it helps some people feel better. I have let that stand as it is as a place for people to vent (I am monitoring them, as I ask Kickstarter delete any comments that threatening the well being of me, my family, other backers, or publishing our personal information).
I would like to make it clear that both Jim and I know that we are the cause of people's anger. We are doing the best we can with what we have. I know it is not good enough for some people. I also know it is appreciated by others.
In the end we are not looking for flame wars, or to steal money. We are looking to make some pans with sword hilts for handles. It is silly, and fun, and this project will be completed! We will not stop until it is. If people haven't figure that out by now, nothing I can say will change that.
I want to thank you for your support and understanding while we move forward. I think the sample grips will be in soon, so another update will happen as soon as it comes in and is tested!
Shalon, that's really terrible. I'm so sorry.
Finally got a response so I think it's safe to assume James has at least looked at these comments.
So.....3,000 pounds of cast iron were delivered a month ago.
That's terrible, Shalon. Sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss, Shalon.
This was supposed to be a Christmas present to my fiance' 2 years ago. He just died. I was wondering if I will ever receive this awesome pan that he would have loved to own.
James, answer your messages!!!
It was August when you said the Villain hilts were no longer being produced and you're still ignoring my messages asking what I can get in place of it.
Stop avoiding the issue. It's not helping anyone.
We are now 2 YEARS pasted the promised delivery date.
Hey James. Do you get a sense of the hostility that's brewing among your backers? Yeah, me too. I think the anger is pretty real. One question ... do you understand that this anger is completely your fault?
This isn't about the delay. It's not about unreasonable whining backers. And it's not at all about things that happened to you that were out of your control. I'm not sure you get that. I think that *you* think that we're unhappy even though this delay "isn't your fault." Bzzzt. It's. Not. About. The. Delay. The anger is directly attributable to YOUR decision to not communicate. No foundry made that decision for you. No relative made that decision for you. No bank or lawyer made that decision for you. That's on you. You, yourself, and only you.
I'm backed several projects that have been late. There's a lot of anxiety, but nothing like what we have here. And that's for a single, simple reason. Those project owners talk to their backers. And you ... don't.
That's why this project is being talked about as one of the worst Kickstarter failures ever.
I, for one, remain completely baffled as to why you would make this happen. What *possible* reason is there for such stunningly insulting, disrespectful and inconsiderate radio silence? What could you *possibly* be thinking? Seriously. Please. Tell us.
I bought my pans in your online shop after told customers to go there. It has been 2 YEARS you thief. I cannot believe that you put out these updates and pretend to be oblivious to the disdain we all have for you for ripping us off!