by Corey Cole
Gonchi – I don't think that response is going to help at all. I don't think anyone on the pro-GG side should be making snarky comments as it only gives ammo to those who paint it as a hate campaign. “An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind”.
Corey – I will try to respond but it may take a few days to do so. Understand though – that I do not wish to upset you or led you astray. I will make every attempt to find neutral sources as possible – but that is likely to be difficult due to the current war going on. I see Simbani (anti) and Leapordmen (pro) eager to tear each others throats out in the name of corruption/misogyny , all the while it is the Daemons (trolls) that are the true culprits behind all the current anger. What we really need now is Rakeesh to talk about peace, not more Rajah to fuel war – it is not helping that both sides are fueled by their sense of righteousness.
In addition – if you have anything that you would like ME to read please send it. I have been trying to find something, anything, to explain the 'anti-GG' side of things to me in a civil manner, and why all members of GG are painted as misogynists for the actions of a few, uncontrollable and rightfully denounced trolls who may, or may not, be associated with it. To quote Ghandi again: “You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is like an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty”. It is for this reason that I do not associate all within the anti-GG side for the actions of their trolls either, and really wish to understand their complaints. I myself do not feel that the nasty people have taken over anything – not on either side – as I can see them for what they are, a minority that does not represent the whole.
Lastly I too feel that private messages would be best if you do want to continue this, but I also don't want to bombard you with messages, nor distract you from the game's development. I also will warn you that I am not the best person to tackle a lengthy debate about a topic, nor am I a 'spokesman' for the pro-GG side. I just see GG being misrepresented. One side is trying very hard to turn the other into monsters while that side just wants a discussion on topics they feel are important.
Anyway – thank you for the kind response, and I look forward to hearing more about the game as it continues its development (and hopefully the war will be over by then and we can all get back to doing important things like playing video games).
Is it too late to add insane, unintelligent, hateful and liar to my yearbook entry?
That was very well said, Galvin, but I question the premises. GamerGate began specifically as a hate campaign against Zoe Quinn and the journalist with whom she had an affair. I'm sure there are well-meaning supporters who have expanded the discussion since then, but the premises were false:
That journalist never wrote about her game. I have repeatedly asked #gamergate supporters to link an actual example of a "corrupt" review, but so far nobody has sent me one. Where is this so-called corruption? Send me a private message with links; if I find them credible, you might convince me. I still will not support the hashtag because it is full of virulent messages by nasty people. Whether they are the "real" gamergaters is subject to argument, but it doesn't matter. They have taken over the hashtag and forced reasonable people to stay away from it.
On the other hand, game publications have *always* been rife with corruption, but not from indie game developers. Their articles are heavily influenced by advertising dollars from large game publishers. They accept press releases from any party (including indies) and publish them as news.
That some game sites are promoting indie games gives breadth to the industry. It doesn't harm anyone, and the sites are arguably much *less* corrupt than the larger sites and magazines. Hero-U will have very little chance of being noticed without free coverage from many gaming sites including the supposedly-corrupt Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Polygon, and so on. These sites are essential to broadening the game industry to allow titles other than a small number of AAA games. We certainly would not have succeeded with this Kickstarter without their support.
Every so often I find that I disagree with a statement so intensely, so completely that it drives me to step out of character. Instead of wandering I find I stay. Instead of listening I find that I must talk. Instead of allowing something to pass – I must tap it on the shoulder and say "Wait...".
Corey – I believe you are incorrect about Gamergate. Why it started. What it represents. What they are saying. I view it as a call to journalistic integrity and the desire of consumers to not be slandered by those they support.
The vast majority of the voices in Gamergate are against the harassment that is occuring. That is - they do not support them no matter how much the media screams that they do. They actively attempt to root out such elements. These toxic members of the movement, if they even are associated with Gamergate at all, do not represent it. Do you feel that all Muslims must be destroyed because of the actions of ISIS? Would it surprise you that the 'other side' has been equally toxic and venomous in their approaches and harassment as well?
Do not misunderstand me. This does not give any 'right' for any harassment at all. That I feel I need to state such is a sad thing – because it seems unless I explicitly state that I am against burning kittens and small animals it will be assumed that I am FOR those things. What type of world do we live in where we expect the worst in people instead of the best?
In the end though you can believe what you wish and can say what you want. It is your right to do so – and it should never be silenced. It is also the right of others to protest this – to say “no you are WRONG” for the very same reasons and to react to your accusations with equal righteousness and vigor.
I believe the quote from Martin Niemoller can be applied equally in this circumstance as well, but for the Gamergate side of things. It is not enough sometimes to ignore someones statements – sometimes it must be questioned or the voice is lost forever.
On those voices both sides of the current debate are talking, but only one seems to want a discussion. Both sides of the current debate have an occasional angry, mean troll – but only one side seems to make the headlines.
I don't fault you Corey. I believe you have been led astray. I hope for the best and am still eager for this game, although I disagree with your desire to use this kickstarter for other non-kickstarter things and disagree about your thoughts on Gamergate and those that support it.
I thought very hard about making this a private message instead of a comment to this update – but I felt a comment is the better option. It takes courage to stand up for what one thinks is right – and I am against corruption, media bias and labeling a vast segment of the community as something they are not. I am against harassment of others for all reasons and do not support any threats to those who do not share my opinion. I am not for silencing anyone if I dislike what they have to say, but calm rational talks about the concerns people have. I feel I represent what Gamergate is standing for, and I do not think I am the only one.
Journey well, and I am glad the game is coming along nicely.
Great job Corey! Keep on truckin'!!!
Thanks for the update Corey, all of it! I've respected you and Lori for a long time, and appreciate that you care about doing your own parts to make the world a better place.
Looking forward to the game!
I don't always read the updates but I really appreciating seeing them. Content to wait on a game that i know is in active development.
I've missed most of the sexism discussion, but I have no problem with people politely discussing important topics in any forum or format. It's the polite bit that seems to get lost most of the time.
I'm not going to talk to you about sexism. Just bringing up the fact that you don't only concentrate on the project.
"As it is, each update takes up at least a full day of my time along with a week or two of agonizing about what I’m writing."
I can only imagine how long it takes you to write walls and walls and walls and walls of off topic nonsense. So yeah, if you're going to BS about your time use just know I can BS with the best of them!
No one here is spewing hate so you can save that drama for your momma or take your hate fighting where there's actual hate. None here.
Back to the project!
@Justin: That is called being responsive. And I believe you are the one currently proliferating the discussion. Meanwhile, in the real world, every sane and intelligent voice in gaming has condemned the vicious and hateful #gamergate - See the front page of today's New York Times, for example; or the statement by the Entertainment Software Association. Continue spewing hate and expect to be shut down by all reasonable voices including mine. Is that subtle enough for you?
"All of our current time and energy is focused on the Hero-U series."
And arguing in the comments section about sexism.
@Marcio: I can't speak about any talks we might or might not have had with Sierra. All of our current time and energy is focused on the Hero-U series.
Thanks for the update!! Always good to see something from you guys!!! Yesterday was the launch of the remake of the Gabriel Knight 1, how about you guys? You have made contact with this new Sierra? How about a new Heroes Quest using this new engine?
"However, I will keep (occasionally) speaking out about topics involving heroism..."
I will keep (occasionally) speaking out about taking it somewhere else.
I'd be interested to see what KS has to say about project creators using updates to post external agenda.
Excellent update! I'd definitely call this one a success. D
Thank you very much for the update, Corey, it's great to get a firm idea of how the game is progressing, and being assured that you guys have been conservative enough to still have the funding on point! Good luck with all of that writing!
@Benjamin, Mikkel, Justin, etc.: If you look closely at this update and the previous one, you will find only two or three paragraphs each devoted to the subjects of which you disapprove. Skip over them if you object. However, I will keep (occasionally) speaking out about topics involving heroism (and anti-heroes) because that is why we created Hero-U and this game. This is my soapbox. Most importantly, this quote:
[i]First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.[/i]
- Martin Niemöller (after spending seven years in Nazi concentration camps)
@speedster: Yes, I sometimes wonder that myself. :-) Then again, Lori does write an occasional "What's New" blog article at http://www.hero-u.net/leaders/. Interested backers and followers of Hero-U should read those as well as the updates here.
Also, technically I was a published author before Lori became one. I had stories in my high school literary magazine. Lori got an article in an SF fanzine in College. Then I published an RPG module with Judges Guild (for which I actually got paid, so that made me "semi-pro"). That helped me meet Lori, and later we collaborated on writing and publishing a role-playing game fanzine. So technically, I had more author credits than Lori pre-Sierra.
Obviously Lori has written much more than me since then, but I've generally been the essayist and blogger - See http://www.theschoolforheroes.com/questlog/, which I sadly haven't updated since the Kickstarter.
Currently Lori is doing more "programming" than I am on Hero-U - determining conditions and dependencies for events - although I give her a lot of help on that. Lori also does all of the illustrations for my updates; I can barely draw a stick figure.
@Corey that graveyard humor just made my night!! You should see my massive grin!
Thanks for the update!
"I keep hoping that, if I write enough articles and essays, they’ll become easier. That hasn’t happened yet."
A friend told me writing would get easier, but I'm frankly rather skeptical at this point. I appreciate your dedication to us backers in doing these monthly updates!
Also I'm still puzzled how as a programmer married to a talented writer, you haven't managed to get her cranking out monthly updates as a change from cranking out dialog ;)
Thanks for the update, I love the paladin's memorial artwork. It sounds like Hero-U development is going well, I appreciate the details on what you've done so far. I'm touched by how much money and effort you have put into this game, so I just want you to know that we're all rooting for you! I think 2015 is going to be a great year for kickstarter RPGs (along with Pillars of Eternity and Darkest Dungeon).
Great to hear things are going well! And chin up regarding the toxic environment out there right now. It'll take time and effort by all of us but the industry will have to get past it sooner or later. Thanks as usual for the insight into your process. Can't wait to get my hands on this one!
Looking great, guys. Thank you very much for the percentages; it keeps our faith in you high. You clearly know exactly what you're doing!
Thanks for concrete information about current process, Coles :). I am glad to hear you have so much already done.
@Oerwinde: Based on what we're seeing with the other scenes, the 3D of the Paladin Memorial will look VERY close to the color comp when it's done. That was a screen shot from the engine, rather than the game, because you get a closer view of the scene in-game. (So you won't see the whole room at once.) By doing it that way, your character is larger and you'll get to see more detail.
@Jesse: So you say you were dying to play QG4 on a fast computer? Little graveyard humor there. ;-)
Great update. Looking forward to 2015. And I'm glad that you speak about what you think is important.
This is looking lovely, guys. I know I'd rather play a game that was finished when it was finished than one that was rushed. Take your time! I'm not going anywhere.
Quest for Glory IV was a great Halloween game. :) Gosh, I played the heck out of that thing. I got it after it had already been released a while. As soon as my family got a Pentium computer (50 mhz!), I couldn't get the disc version fast enough, and when I finally got my own Pentium a few years later (100 mhz!) with a CD-ROM drive, QfG IV CD was my first purchase.
Beat the heck out of the 286 I ran Quest for Glory III on. It only had a 20MB hard drive, so I could only have one game installed at a time! AND, it was 5 1/4" floppies. I had QfG III and Monkey Island 2 both on those big, goofy floppy discs, and both QfG III and Monkey Island 2 had awesome (yes really) internal PC speaker soundtracks.
Thanks to anyone who read my reverie.
Justin, Mikkel, I was miffed this made it here too. Now I'm just ignoring the "sexism" stuff and trying to stay positive about the game. I think it's the best way to send the message that we care about game news, not someone's opinion (regardless of whether they side with industry or players).
Agreed. Take your "soapbox" to a blog. More importantly just take it somewhere else.
First off - game looks amazing!
Secondly I'd prefer if you stopped with the sexism etc. - has no place in the monthly updates tbh. Especially because both sides in this 'war' are so blinded by hatred that it's not good for anybody.
Personally I don't care if the character/hero/avatar is female or male - or if the artists/coder/producer is female or male, I just care about the game I will play and enjoy.
Thread lightly in this current age of sexism - both sides are disgusting and I'd advise not to lean either way, just so you know that both sides have sent out death threats, it's not some people vs. female indie developers as some publications wants to make it look like - it's SJWs vs. Trolls - and both sides are dragging in a lot more. Generalizing about indie developers and/or gamers is wrong - at the center of this dramabomb it's nasty human beings vs nasty human beings (yes both sides are nasty human beings).
That Paladin Memorial concept painting makes me wish that's what the game's art style was. So pretty.
:) :) :)
That amount of waste on a project of this scale isn't bad. Once again, compare with AAA titles :D
One of my favorite parts of what you discussed here: You've got things brained together enough that you can give percentage estimates for how far in you are.
As someone who does business-project coding for a living and works in an Agile methodology, I am absolutely jealous of your ability to do that. So, so very jealous. I am weeping on my Meep right now I'm so jealous.