by Mantic Games
Rebs shadows look good, like the enforcers...except the medic, that tool on his left arm looks a bit similar to another company's medics.
To be fair Mantic immediately addressed the concern I posted below with Faction Boosters, something to spend more money on yey! :D
I already poured at least twice the amount of money of this then I intended so Mantic would have to really impress me with something awesome to get me to spend more.
So many add on so little money for it >_<
Just to add, I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying extra for these little bits, if I want to add another $100 to a Strike Team pledge I'm only really looking at scenery and maybe zombies. I wouldn't mind in the slightest paying for quality in all the other gubbins that comes along with the pledge.
Looks Jagged maybe a plague walker?
Have to say I hope the card mechanic crosses over to Warpath but glad Deadzone is staying Skirmish sized
+1 for concentrating on smaller scale 2x2 skirmishes, I was really excitedly watching the updates up until the last couple of days, but it seems a bit meh moving away from core extras and towards larger scale bits.
I'm sure some people are excited by the recent updates, but for me at least I just want to see smaller updates to the contents of starters, as it stands other than the gaming mat I don't feel I have much more quality in taking the Strike Team instead of Recon. Quantity yes which is great , but not quality really.
Why not get in bits like etched dice, plastic counters, etc. just to make the quality of the mid range pledges a little better, and I'm sure you'll get people bumping up to your "Optimum" package.
At the moment I feel torn between cancelling the pledge entirely and adding extras like additional scenery on if I "know" I'm going to play the game.
I will wait and see if my concerns are ill-founded but it will largely depend on what the faction boosters look like. I really have a thing for grid based games like Dust Tactics and Dreamblade and I hope that Deadzone becomes as great as it deserves to be.
Thanks for the update Mantic, I'm feeling quite reassured now! Like many others I'm moving away from "that" companies games and have no real wish to start collecting another large scale wargame. I love your models and what I've seen of your companies ethos and I'm really excited to see where you take this project.
Put me in the category of wanting a smaller, 2 x 2 game and having no interest in larger games.
Yay us and yay Mantic!
Just posted this on the main comments but posting again here for completeness:
We've always said from the outset that this was only ever going to be six factions for the game, and we'd go deep, exploring new unit types, new characters and new modes of playing.
Deadzone will always remain a concentrated skirmish game, it's not large games as in a wargame - that's what Warpath is for - it's just a way of expanding the board size (and there are other skirmish games that play on a 4x4 board) and introducing multiplayer games so you can play cooperatively with your friends :)
We're not going to have masssive artillery pieces - we're going to have mortars and two man weapons teams that suppress soldiers in the same way as Blaze Away.
We're not going to have tanks - we might, if funding gets far enough, have light walkers or quad bikes.
The expanded rules all have the core game at it's heart and doing it now always us to blend the experience and the rules in more sweetly. And of course allows you more variety in the way you can play.
The faction boosters - our next update - are designed to add more variety and more choice to the range. There are more special characters to come and, when the new terrain kits are sculpted (without the kickstarter we couldn't have done these kits, they weren't even concepted!) we will show them off :)
None of this would be possible without your help and the depth of choice and variety we will have available will allow you to create your own unique squad on a battlefield that is never the same twice.
@ Isidoro - it certainly won't be like 40K. This is partly why we changed the turn activation systems, it lends itself to speedier games when you increase the model count or board size.
@ isidoro acosta. I read through the modes of play blog post the game creator wants to make the game as modular as possible to accomodate as many playstyles as possible.
I am totally psyched for this game! Mantic holds awesome kickstarters and put out high quality ,easy to learn but hard to master, games that me and my boys have a blast playing together. Not to mention the miniatures are beautiful and look good on display. Thank you again mantic.
@Mantic As some people has already said, Deadzone was said to be a skirmish game, I joined this kikstarter because I liked the idea of a scifi 3d board game that could fit in a 2'x2' board. I come from other miniature wargames (GW) and abandoned them because of the huge ammount of models you need for the scale they were reaching... I don't think this industry needs another 40k like game but a game with it's own identity as was your first concept of deadzone. Of course you can play 40k with 10 models but the rules are made to fit larger armies... if something similar happens to warpath I think many people wont be interested any more.
I wouldn't be too concerned just yet about big vs. skirmish games. The core factions are either nearly done or done already - at most it's just one more stretch goal and they're complete. Likewise, I think things like counters, finishing the Asterians / Forge Fathers etc. will be accomplished in short order. And then the 2x2 skirmish level game will be complete, and people will still be pouring in at the end, and Mantic will want to use that opportunity to grow the game further. Big units like Mechs, etc., will be attractive late-game stretch goals - not to everyone, but to many - and will help drive up the final tally. They will also help drive funding for some of the "core game" goals along the way, like counters, mercs, and more specialists etc.
I don't see the core skirmish game and the expanded game as being inherently conflicted. There is no way Mantic is going to push bigger boards and units and leave the core skirmish game half-baked, they just have to start teasing the bigger stuff now to ramp up excitement for the final weekend.
Have some faith, my brothers and sisters! We shall all see the heavenly pledger floodgates open soon!
I think most people agree on lets finish the starting factions before moving onto other things. lets get the special characters for rebs and marauders sorted.
I have to agree with a lot of these other comments. The original draw for this was to have a small skirmish game that allowed the individuals to evolve and improve over time, rather than larger scale games. While larger games and larger models are certainly something that will be fun, we could probably do with a bit more variety in the forces available to the existing factions in small scale confrontations first, otherwise we're going to end up with lots of the same pose running around.
I don't know how you're planning character evolution, but it would be nice to have things like equipment and weapon/arm sprues to allow the models to evolve with the warbands rather than artillery pieces. I'm not particularly keen on the EU weapon platforms for the same reason that they don't seem to quite fit with the terrain density and multiple levels.
@Mantic I agree early intro for the Mech would boost the Kickstarter, lets get this going! I'm sure I and others will dig a little deeper for a mech. You could make one Mech that has upgrades on sprue for each faction. One Mech with mulitple use.
I think i agree with some of what has been written here. Bigger does not equal better. Stay focused on the small table top skirmish game idea. That was the initial attraction. By all means use that as a spring board to warpath but please dont try and merge them. I also have a few reservations that the mechanics will scale up all that well. I think it might get quite complicated and loose that fast action packed feel.
I won't lie....I'd rather see more factions or more units for the existing factions then rules that require me to buy more of the stuff I already have pledged for. I will likely skip the bigger games for now, though I know some want them, and wait for more units/factions.
Luke said this: "They are trying to give everyone what they want, and that's a noble goal if ytou ask me..."
And I think it is the problem.
A strategy requires laser focus & the alignment of all resources to push it through to reality (sorry, my profession in strategy implementation comes through). If we give everyone what they want, we end up with a mish mash of 'wishes' that never achieve a coherent objective.
At first, the objective of this KS was the make an awesome skirmish/boardgame. That seems to have been diluted, which is what is causing some concern amongst a few of us.
I am sure all will be well, Mantic do good things, we just need reassurance and re-focus on the core game. Once that is done properly, we can look to 'bells and whistles'.
Oh yeah, I forgot about those intriguing Shadows, especially the cool maggot looking one, and the lion/ynijd that had a crossbow like weapon.
Without a doubt I think Mantic are awesome dudes and Deadzone fantastic. I rather think this game is a revolution in gaming; not just in the system and concepts but in the spirit and soul of those creating it and those backing the game.
My worry is of a drift towards something like 40K: all overbloated with unbalanced and untested armies. Or something where rules are rushed in too quickly without proper thought.
Back in update 49 I saw blacked-out concepts for what appeared to be hired guns, I found these really interesting and they captured my imagination. I admit I love the idea of this expanding into a larger multi-player game though I much prefer the core basics getting finalised first. I haven't yet seen a final demo of the original game yet and my gut feeling is that talk of expansion at this stage is a bit early. Looking at the comments below, I agree with Paolo. The core game and 6 factions need to be finalised first before other 'Big' expansions.
@Paolo- I really don't think that mantic is doing this purely to sell more product. They are trying to give everyone what they want, and that's a noble goal if ytou ask me...
But even if they were trying to push product, theyr're a company, isn't that their job?
My concern is purely based on the too little of too much approach that I see this becoming. Here's rules for solo play! Here's rules for zombies! Here's rules for big games! Etc...
Until the finished core product is in the hands of the players and has been thoroughly abused and loop-holes found and fixed, balance issues addressed and so on; adding rules for more and more game modes in an thinly veiled attempt to push product is off-putting.
I think the core game and six factions need to be fleshed out thoroughly and have been in our hands for at least 6 months before all this other 'big' stuff is even looked at.
Just for the record and to be clear; I am not complaining...I want it all. Just trying to wrap my head around what the concern may be.
@Michael- We have had a lot of Kick-ass mercs... The free ones are: The Survivor, Dr Simmonds, Recon Unit N32, Nastanza and soon to come Wrath. There's also The Helfather and The Chovar Psychic and add-ons. I'm sure there'll be a few more before the end too!
As for core units- there are 2 new factions that are both now at 10 figures, the 4 oringinal fleshed out factions, a specialist add-on for each of the originals and I'm sure more to come! Oh, and dont forget the next Stretch Goal- ZOMBIES! :)
Don't worry, mantic aren't trying to make this into 40K, they're just giving us the option for many different modes of play.
At first, I was confused about people getting anxious over these developments towards the "bigger" game but then it occoured to me why. We are seeing an incremental move towards accommodating the larger games and yet...we still are only seeing sketches for more than 50% of what the core skirmish is meant to be. Granted things like renders and prototypes take more time than say "think-tanking" and sketches, but give us something reassuring the fact that the core skirmish is progressing.
I recently put extra money into the kickstarter having been inspired by update 49 where there was talk of more core units and new hired guns.
Has this all been pushed aside in vain so that you can turn Deadzone into a full-scale tabletop game?
I'm nothing against expansion though surely at this time it is more important to get the core game established?
Absolutely agreee with Paolo and Luke.
I would love to see this KS get finished with the 2x2 small scale game completed in its entirety.
YES - I absolutely do want mechs added and *maybe* some light vehicles, but still keep to the 5 - 25 models a side on the 2x2 game mat.
Once that is perfect, by all means add an expansion that lets Deadzone get bigger after/at the end of the KS, but please finish the core first.
The last thing I want is to end up with 'Warpath - Cityfight' as the end product of this.
@Crimsonsun- Fair point that Big Deadzone games =/= Warpath, I was not saying mantic shouldn't do big games (I might even end up getting 4 mats myself) but I think they should completely finish the 2x2 skirmish level first. Heck, I WANT mantic to put out as many options as possible, and fund as many figures as they can cram into their tools!
When mantic started the Kickstarter the purpose was to fund Deadzone, a 2x2 skirmish game. I just don't consider that fully complete until the counters have been upgraded.
To say 'use spare parts' is wrong. The point of the kickstarter is to COMPLETE Deadzone so that mantic can put out a finished product in 1 or 2 releases rather than it taking them 2-3 years.
Improved counters is part of that.
(Don't get me wrong, being in the hobby for 10 years I have the ability and the bits box to allow me to make counters, markers and whatever else, I already have loads of counters from other games any way that would work fine.)
Necromunda was played at a 4' x 4' table - personally I think that might be the perfect size for a skirmish game.
I really don't agree with the big game sentiment. This came across as a detailed board/skirmish game to start with. The new Necromunda for me and some others. Starting to add bigger game rules and units that are of no use in 2 x 2 is something should come MUCH later. I remember a comment in an earlier update that spoke of a fear this is deviating from being a board game and 'just another mass mini game'.
Please Mantic; save the big game stuff for later when you have established the game and people have it nailed down, don't loose focus of what the game started as.
Ps - for those wanting counters; that sounds like a good use of spare parts and extra models to me...
I for one am very much interested in bigger games, and more to the point the light vehicles, mechs and artillery to come with it. Mantic have already stated this is a 'Very' different game to Warpath in various interviews - which will be a true Mass Combat system while this is a skirmish concentrating on the details.
On the other hand I am not bothered about zombies, civilians or medics I have tons of the former, civilians I can proxy if desperate and medics -pfft not fussed but we all have different ideals and Mantic seem to be doing the best they can. I have seen nothing that seems to detract from the original concept in any stretch goals, or that will lessen what they can do with the main game, only an increase in options for us the players. They are saying for the bigger games fraction boasters are on there way - Great - I cannot see how this will not be good for people wanting to play on any size board, new models, sergeants, big guns, alternative troop and specialist options.... Whats not to want!! Add to that it sounds like more add ons to get this stretches broken...
Just giving a different prospective
I guess the point is that you don't have to play the big games, as the rules were initially designed for 2x2 play and will work best at that level.
However it does limit how much mantic can improve the skirmish game if instead they start making it bigger. I mean $10K for what? Giving guns a max range?
I personally think mantic should have improved the counters for the game first, then do these sorts of things once the original 2x2 game had all the components looking good and the game feeling finished.
I just hope they get around to improving the counters sooner rather than later.
P.S. 'We dont need another Warpath' was not disparaging Warpath, sorry if it sounded like that.
@Paolo- I'm not particularly interested in big games either, but with such a significant number of backers asking for them mantic would be stupid not to go down this road. I don't understand why people want big games when there is warpath for that, but they do, and mantic can't really ignore them.
Please Please Please Mantic don't make this a huge game - we don't need another Warpath, please keep it a skirmish game.
One or two (small) vehicles a side like the mech are cool, but adding artillery and stuff will just get way out of hand.
I love the idea of the 2' x 2' board and the small number of models - perfect niche in the gaming space. But as soon as you go much bigger you are just making 'another' sci-fi table top game, and you already have one of those.
The other issue I see with making it bigger is that the 'tourney' scene tends to take over, meaning whatever the 'maximum' is will become the standard for all games. I know the answer is 'you dont have to play in tourneys' but it kind of becomes the defacto standard anyway - we all know that.
Sorry this really isnt a rant - I am very keen on this and have >$300 pledged. I just like the idea of small squad skirmish and really hope you keep it that way, as it stands it's great right now!
I have some reservations about this last minute focus on big games. I think these stretch goals should be more focused on civilians and other specialist troops such as medics or troops that scavenge from the surroundings etc. Like the zombies and added a box and feel this is the direction it should be heading rather than trying to push this into 40K realms.
@Rand Chua- No, not at all. Large artillery pieces are all going to bear some slight resemblances but the one thing mantic haven't done on this KS is be unoriginal.
Look at what they have been doing with the Rebs... Originality and a pure sci-fi feel is what drew me into this KS and nothing has changed in my opinion.
Getting near to play Starcratt 2 Tank unit or War Hammer 40K look alike mini?
Or maybe the shells deal damage in the square where they land (no LoS required, just someone nearby with a laser targetter mounted to their weapon?) and 'blow away' targets in the adjacent square, like the grenade currently does? Knock 'em prone and blow 'em away a suare?
1/ I guess they would be great for pinning units down. Maybe a unit that is under fire and in cover will worsen its condition by two steps... really 'shelled down' which takes two activations (get tough?) to be able to move again. I would also think there is a difference between a guy with a SMG pinning you down by firing wildly and an 80mm shell or worse bursting nearby!
2/Maybe they can also destroy terrain: you could attack a barricade to take it down, you coud attack a roof section to destroy it (allowing units with Jetpacks to target those within) or target a wall to reduce it to rubble... Maybe you could target a tower (targetting the legs/pillars) to tear it down (along with any units in it... yes, I'm pointing at you Sniper!)
But what is the reason behind to bring to the system artillery unts like the goblin or the Dwarf one if we are fighting in a cluttered space plenty of corners, walls and with ni lines of Los?
Mobility will be also another issue for these units unless you place them in higher positions to cover a larger area and sit and wait to have one target in sight!
If you plan to build more than 1 level of height for the battlezone then this units will be non-sense, won't be?
So what are your thoughts?
Thanks Phillip's sock puppet! I think will wait and see if we manage to hit a vehicle/big unit target before i pledge another mat.
@Jake: Strike Team and up include a 'deluxe' battle mat instead of the paper one. Strike = 1x, Assault = 2x. You can buy more in the add-on section. If you go strike and want a 4x4 battlemat, there are 3 extra mats (deluxe) for 55 USD :-)
Just a quick question; Does the upgraded mat replace the paper mat included in the strike team? Or is it in addition too? As it would be good to have a second 'tile' for those big games