by Mantic Games
Don't make them look or feel like iron man or Tau units in 40K Dawn of War. :p
Since the Black Talons are only used by the most skilled Asterians, that would imply they are a vauable resource, which makes me think they would be better protected than the typical Cypher. This one doesn't seem to have any extra armor.
winglets on the ankles and wrists?
I want the flying to be represented by strapping a big rocket to it's back. Remember to stencil ACME on to it ;)
Oh and as for winglets, a small one on each of the ankles running up the leg would be excellent. Like stabilising fins.
This could also be combined into the claw feet ideas presented earlier by several others.
Also a more streamlined head would work wonders. Although by streamlined I do not mean more coned àla eldar, or beaky, but something along the lines of the geth from mass effect.
I'm already thinking what to do about colour schemes for mine. At the moment that two tone paint you get on cars that's like purple in one direction and green in the other is winning out... that would look so good and very alien. Just gotta see if I can find an acrylic based version of it somewhere
Getting a Link in Park Points Of Authority robots vibe from these guys I can't wait to see some colour schemes for them
When are we getting the add-ons for heavy armoured Forge Fathers and additional Brokkrs?
I'm itching for adding a tone load of then to my pledge...
Winglets are not wings people! Nobody mentioned putting wings on the cypher. Winglets!
Yes! Delighted my bird talon idea has some support! :-)
I love Vermonter's idea of them being an assault unit, diving in with their talons.
Conceptually I'm thinking and hoping for a really agile Cypher along the lines of Geth Hoppers. An absolute nightmare to even draw a bead on
Hmmm... right after posting that last comment I noticed that the weapon platforms have the same jet nozzle outlets to control their movement. Consistency is very important, so I can live with the pack being like that too. The Black Talon should have some small rotational jets to help with directional control instead of more wings though, much like the platforms.
What will it be the 666k special strech goal ? A 1 Gen Plague Behemoth :D ? Or a Dragqueen Orx with a Plasma Whip :P ?
Some good ideas below, like adding the rear facing talon to make the feet more like a bird of prey. The thing that seems a bit odd to me is the "jet" pack itself. Asterians use a lot of repulsor technology, so I would prefer their pack look more like it uses anti-grav/repulsors. I don't think they need a lot of wing like structures attached because they should be moving by manipulating gravitational fields.
Although I am concerned with the sameness factor too, I can always make the models more diverse by how the paint is applied as well. This model is different enough for me from the standard offerings.
@Mantic liking the Black Talon, any chance we could get one looking like it's just landed? Y'know the typical crouched down, one hand resting on the ground look? I think it'd add a nice change in profile and is a pose that the other Cyphers are unlikely to be in.
Yup the winglets aren't a bad idea. I like how they're working out- a series of modifications of a basic 'chasis' depending on their roles. In keeping with that, I'm not sure the addition of a jump-pack is enough of a difference on the torso/upper of the figure to set it apart as a different loadout- perhaps the two large sweeping curves could somehow be altered in shape or extent to differentiate it.
@Mantic, will the Black Talon have an option of weapons to use in a close support or distance? I think if you make the option the players, it only adds to the diverse use of the Cypher frame, Just like the Asterians! Give us the option, close combat support, bombardment from the air, what ever else the player can adapt it for!
I dunno about wings on the legs. Although armored sleeves with thrusters like a gundam might be cool.
I don't no if its even possible, lore wise, but but if the black talon was wielding dual pistols whilst jet-packing around the field it would be epic!
Id rather have that than another flux rifle...
Although i'd happily convert it if the Asterians get pistol ranged weaponry
Bring on the Boba cypher!!
These are about what I meant by leg pistons.
I think the only Cypher cc weapons we've seen are the charge gloves. The Asterian commander uses some kind of enery stick. They may not use close combat weapons in the traditional sense, but short ranged energy weapons instead.
@Mantic after reading the Alpha and Beta rules having a Black Talon circling the battle zone in the open is the las thing I would want to do. What about a shorter pistol and combat fission blade? This will keep the slim profile of the black talon and it could use is jet pack to move fast between cover and close in on the objective or enemy. Also is there a "heavy hitter" in store for this faction? We NEED to know, LOL.
@Mantic I hate to beat a dead horse, but have we forgotten about (or been distracted away from) the extras sprues at Strike that were 'hinted' about?
To me Black talon is still a standard troop type - just dealing out Death From Above in a more in-your-face method. It would be able to flit into confined spaces inaccessible to larger fliers/grav floaters simply because they are too big - thing of lift/elevator shafts, chimneys, all those interesting ways of slipping inside a supposedly secure perimeter.
I have no doubt bigger things may come in Warpath but maybe not here,
Black Talon needs a butt rocket
Would also love to see the Black Talon a massive Hulk construct to swope in and take on a 1st Gen or Orx Hulk with his large talon claw, and a fission launcher in the other. Just some more ideas. What do you guys think?
@Stephen yeah something like this
but obviously shorter. Also the open beak could also contain some sort of additional "third" eye, opticat device for targeting from high altidude...
Black talon and Brokkr with heat cannon - yes! I leave the posing to you guys.
Including more stuff in the add-ons for those who wish to go bonkers (eg, with more drones) - yes again!
It might help if we had indications of how many of these would be the maximum permitted in a 2x2, 4x4 scenario.
Another way to add interest, dynamism, and difference to the Black Talon model would be to pose it in the midst of flying with a flight stand. Or if you'll be doing another one as a future stretch goal, have one posed on the ground, and the other posed with a flight stand.
Looking at the mask of the standard cypher i think a stylized open beak could give better results than a stylized closed, down pointing beak. I also agree on bird like feet, or at least split more the feet, as they are now, when on the ground, and close them when flying, could do really well in dynamic poses (example the classic landing on one leg straight a bit forward with the other still bent at the knee )
Looking at the feet, a heel spur like a chicken or any raptor (the birds) has would help the look and the name.
If you want to go with the Black Talon theme, I would like to see may be small to medium launcher on the Cypher with some blade or close combat capability. This will allow the Black talon to shoot "Explosively Charged Talons" on people below before dropping into close combat to finish. We have not address a close combat guy for this faction. Just an idea
@Michele like verniers thrusters on the hips for mid-flight adjustments?
Otherwise, we don't know if this is a ranged or close style Cypher. From the description it seems to use it's mobility for strafing and air support. Should the optics reflect the wider range of view a flying unit would need? A visor instead of the regular eyes maybe. If it didn't deviate too much from the Asterian aesthetic.
some sort of thrusters on the back of the calves might work for the Black Talons. Nothing huge and bulky; just something to add to the speed and agility feeling. They need dynamic posing, no matter what else.
Maybe give the Cyphers bird talons feet instead of cloven hooves? Would help them to keep steady when landing in the heat of action.
Yeah, as a few others have mentioned, the big thing with the Black Talon is that they hardly stand out at all from the other Asterian Cyphers. A more dynamic pose (leaping, landing, taking off, etc.), and if not necessarily "winglets", then stabilizer fins or something.
The brokkrs are fine, however.
Looking good, personally I would leave the legs without canard wings.
Does the weapon drones of the starter got upgraded to have core and cannon whit the previous update or only add ons have both?
Will the short stories go into the compendium as well? That would have been lovely ^^
1. GIVE THE BLACK TALONS SOME TALONS.
Forget winglets. You could enhance the Talon look by making substituting aero-dynamic blades for the winglets, perhaps along the line of Velociraptors. Bladed legs would better fit the "Talon" name, and look cooler and more functional for aerial combat. Perhaps the Black Talons can swoop down and use their talons for close combat attacks? Or dive and fight other aerial units with them?
Depending on how you design them, "Talons" on the legs could easily look like they do double duty as winglets for aerial steering. It's just up to how you design them.
And you could also sculpt the Black Talon Cypher's FEET to look like cyber-avian talons too, better for rending and tearing, but also better for perching on those high, difficult-to-access-by-foot areas. It would go with the name and theme, make functional sense for a flying unit, and have a cool look that would further distinguish Black Talons from standard Cyphers.
2. CAREFUL WITH THE BEAK. Right now the mask design says "Pigeon" to me. Please be very careful with the beak look. Done right, it's cool. But it can go wrong easily, look silly, and spoil everything. Don't forget that the Kraaw's alternate beaked head was the least popular variant for that model. You could safely scrap the beaked mask altogether and still get the Raptor idea across with leg and foot talons. A safer and cooler path.
3. MORE VARIETY IN ASTERIAN UNITS, PLEASE. The more different the Black Talon looks from a standard Cypher, the better. The Asterian faction is currently one of the same-iest. They could really use a couple of combat specialists that DON'T look like standard Cyphers. Those don't have to be actual Asterians, although it's clear some people here want that. They could also be Cyphers with entirely different specialist builds (which I'd personally prefer).
I'm dreaming of a Cypher with a completely different, heavier build as a future stretch goal . . .
I wouldn't put any wing or booster below the knees. Legs are needed for walking, even in rough terrains. I would put reverse wing (maybe with a V, or crescent shape) on the side/back of the hips, extending on the sides/back and around shoulder height; with additional boosters attached on the hips. This way the thrust should be anchored around the model centre of gravity and (maybe with some balljoint to allow rotation and mobility) it should allow easy hovering and shooting, landing, take-off and flawless transition between flight and run. I would likely take out most of the boosters in the back, since they seems to me in a weird angle (not very good for landing or break a fall). Maybe one single bigger booster in the back and two on the hips (all mobile for thrust vectoring, kind of like an Harrier). If that horizontal cone thing is some a-grav generator boosters and wing should be mostly redundant though..
Solo rules? Do tell!
@ Andrew - that's correct, they're all being based off the basic Cypher frame at the moment. They will be posed when they get to sculpting!
@Stephan has some good suggestions.
Really good look on these Asterians. I don't know about winglets, that would require it to hold its legs a certain way during flight or lose an aerodynamic profile. Rather than winglets, I would think thicker legs housing suspension or some pistons on the outside to accommodate frequent leap-assisted take-offs and landings. Do those jets require intake, or do they just discharge a propellant? Maybe intake valves in the chest area.
I agree with most of those below, especially in the way that the cyphers look too much alike. I am hoping that's because the concepts have yet to be posed in the way the Brokkrs have.
Black talons look very nice, maybe some additional boosters or manoeuvring jets to attach to the ankles? Maybe a slightly different head to make them stand out a bit more with advanced targeting systems to cope with their increased speed?
@mantic, any chance of a multi pack deal for the talons, I could see people wanting a five man squad of them!
Why not eliminate the legs if it flies or better yet make the legs more bird-like, perhaps this cypher perches on rooftops and sides of buildings?
I like the design of the asterans, I just would like to see them be a little less homogeneous in appearance.
I'd like to see it more like Iron Man, spilt out panels from the legs, make it look like they're rolled in flat when it's not in flight. Otherwise, nice update. Looking forward to the next week
Woohoo! For the black talon.. the winglets wouldn't hurt.. anything to help differentiate the types of cypher