by Mantic Games
@Tasker - The terrain is just one part of this campaign - don't worry, we've still got lots planned for the game itself!
@Chris - We've discussed this, we just need to look into how feasible it is :)
@Gavin - Great ideas! Medics are definitely planned. Jake's not too keen on adding rules for letting the Plague infect people in-game because a) it's already been done in other games recently, and b) it might lead to things getting complicated, and too much complexity could stop the game being what it is!) Also, no, the Plague can't eat the dead to get wounds back... well, not yet, anyway! (Plague Teraton has been a very popular idea, by the way... wait and see!)
@Gorden - Assault Team duplicates everything from Strike Team, including stretch goals, so yes - you'd get two of everything!
@Euan - The landing pad could be built smaller - it would still take up a good chunk of the gaming area, but that would make it a particularly key objective / cinematic setting!
@Eric - The sprues are the same currently, but with the add-ons you'll get the option to pick any Battlezone theme (currently only Core World is available, but more will be unlocked as time goes by, with Landing Pad being the first). As for contents, you get the same number of sprues in Assault Team as you do in the $95 add-on.
@Matt - We only want the best for our baby, too! We're very conscious of what you talk about, and we do our best to strike a balance. Thanks for the feedback though! :)
@ Mantic - Fair enough, as I said I know that you guys have access to a lot more granulated information than we do, as well as knowledge of your costs, capabilities and rollout plan. From an external perspective, what I was seeing was a vocal group of people both here and on other forums repeatedly calling for terrain, at which point it suddenly became all terrain, all the time. Terrain add-ons are an excellent idea, I was simply concerned that you MAY have started to become a little too reactive - and apologies to those responsible for formulating the plan if it looked like I was trying to teach them to suck eggs.
I've simply seen some otherwise successful ventures go pear-shaped because they didn't realise there was such a thing as being too responsive sometimes. The fact that only 5% of your customer base will ever bother to contact you, but that they tend to be quite vocal (and they are usually the hardest to please) can sometimes unduly drive decision making.
This game seems to be really filling a need in the gaming community, I just want to see it do well.
@everyone: anyone confused about tiles, battlezones, sprues, and the rest (will update as necessary) -
i'm pretty sure this is how it works; mantic, please correct me if i'm wrong...
TILE = a single 3"x3" or two 3"x1.5" piece(s) on a sprue
BUILDING SPRUE = a sprue of, at this point, but subject to change, 6 tiles
CONNECTOR SPRUE = a sprue of the different types of connectors which hold tiles together
BATTLEZONE = a collection of 3 BUILDING SPRUES, anc 1 CONNECTOR SPRUE
ACCESSORY SPRUE = a sprue of an as yet undetermined number of ladders, etc.
as it stands, the packs offered, be they by pledge or add-on, appear to consist of some multiple of 2 battlezones (2 for $50, 4 for $95, 8 for $185 as add-ons, and 12 for $285 as a pledge level at this point), and every 2 battlezones appears to come w/a single accessory sprue (1 @ $50, 2 @ $95, 4 @ $185 and 6 @ $285).
currently, there is only one type of battlezone, the COREWORLD BATTLEZONE. as the kickstarter progresses, we may unlock add'l types which may consist of a different configuration of sprues and/or new tile, accessory, and/or connector types. the first new battlezone they intend to fund - the landing pad battlezone - offers a different style of tile than what we've seen, including angled/triangle tiles
@eric: scenery-wise, strike team is the equivalent of 2 battlezones. if you get strike team + the $95 add-on, you will effectively have 6 battlezones + everything that comes w/strike team for $245. i'd say for the extra $45 you'd pay for assault ($245 vs $290), you'll have 2 less battlezones, but twice the minis, which i'd say is a better value. assuming you have the funds, you could always add the $50 add-on to assault, in which case you'd have twice the minis as strike team + a $95 add-on, but the same amount of scenery, for only an extra $95 ($245 for strike + $95 add-on vs $340 for assault + $50 add-on)
Are the sprues in the add ons different from the sprues in the strike team? I'm wavering between going to Assault team instead of just doing the add on. What is the difference in what I'm getting between the $95 add on to strike team versus 2x strike team (just talking terrain sprues, I understand I'll double up my minis and other components).
I was giving this some thought on my lunch break, I'd also be interested to see a whole new faction introduced. A sect of religious zealots, Purifiers as a name, specializing in plasmas as a means of warfare. To "burn" the infection of the impure or infected out of the universe. It could be a whole new race altogether, or maybe an amalgamation of races that have decided to join this religion out of fear or hatred of the Plague.
Heavy use of melee and plasma grenades. Fire charges. Heavy DMG output, medium armor rating, almost 0 range.
Just a thought.
By the way, the rough sketch of the landing pad layout is 12 squares long plus some extra bits; that will cover an awful lot of table top.
I for one am impressed by Mantic's Kickstarter-Fu. The new stretch goals are definitely adding more stuff to the game, whether it is free or not. Once I can actually get some idea of what the finished terrain sprues will contain, I may well drop some more cash.
All the best, Mantic and please keep up your good work.
I guess what I'd like to see in terms of next goal is a faction-wide release. Medic for Rebs? Yes please, from the looks of things they're gonna need it. Though, all things considered, I'm surprised they don't seem (or at least I haven't seen one) to have a sniper/marksman like the Enforcers and Marauders have.
But tbh I'll be happy with anything, so long as we keep busting these goals and getting better and better stuff. Looks great so far.
@Mantic For those of us who've pledged at the Assault Team level, are we going to see the stretch goal for both Strike Teams, or just just one stretch goal for the level? I'm with Gavin on the game mechanics. My friends and I are already looking at ways of turning this into a dungeon crawling experience as well. We would love to play both.
More prospects as far as characters to start with, both hero and or support would be ideal for us. Possibly for others as well.
I'm very excited to see how and where this all winds up. Can't wait to get into the fray!
@James -- Exactly. The landing pad might actually induce me to at $50 to my Strike Team pledge... So it's working... :(
Settle down people. Tooling hard plastic sprues costs a lot of money, especially given the variety that the final terrain will have. There's plenty of days left in the KS, so rest assured that the entirety off the KS is not terrain only at this point. I've heard Ronnie tell me in person about some of the stuff that sounds like it will be in the "season 2" stuff and it sounds bad ass.
Having a terrain stretch goal is not any different than the stretch goal for the abyssal forge father model. It may not apply to you but someone may want it.
And as long as Mantic is pricing everything appropriately, then people getting just terrain is still going to assist them tooling other stuff, adding more pages to the digital campaign book, act as a really good advertisement to spread the word about the KS AND if they play their cards right, act as good advertising for Mantic to people who just bought the terrain for other games.
Saying you think every goal should mean free models for your pledge level just sounds childish.
Custom dice! no thanks, I'm glad its a standard D8, I've been a gamer for 30 years I love dice, but I have a big enough bag full as it is.
I like the idea of a crashed "lander" or even a non crashed one for that matter, both would be fantastic, missions and scenarios like get to the chopper boys, or black hawk down, spring to mind. I'm also of the opinion that crashed civilian transport's or loaders are a cracking idea.
Not to sure about the idea of mounted troupes, due to the small size board and enclosed spaces.
Missions are good as is anything that gives the game more Re-Playability.
hence why I was glad my Mate is joining in with me, four factions will give us far more options than just the base two.
One of the things I'm looking at doing with this is building up the inside of a large building (futuristic dungeon) type idea as we go along clearing it level by level as missions.
All of this is coming from my background being more of a roleplayer than a wargamer.
I'd love to see more specialists, Medics being top of the list, are there rules for the Plague to get more recruits from wounding/killing/capturing enemy models? can the Plague regenerate wounds by eating the fallen?
On the subject of specialists, demolitions experts and building damage?
Also loving the ForgeFather Idea, I've always been a Dwarf player!
The last thing I'm going to froth about at the moment will be the possibility of other races hit by the plague, or are only humans affected? the idea of a first gen Teraton Brawler victim or even a Gorgan is a truly terrifying prospect.
Hey Mantic, great work on these. I do have a questions/suggestion.. are there plans for adding stairs and perhaps a Lift/Service/Passenger elevator accessory? It's the far future and I'm seeing far more ladders there then here in an urban setting.
@Roeland Joris... I only mentioned it once so I can't really see how I was "complaining so much".
@Mantic Games... I don't mind terrain. I love terrain infact. Especially modular stuff like this. I was just a bit concerned that it was going dominate the Kickstrter from here on out at the expense of improving the core game - extra game mechanics, custom dice, alternate sculpts, extra factions, plastic counters, etc...
If you're certain that this isn't going to happen then i'm a happy camper.
@ Colin - you're right, it's a typo sorry. 1 accessory sprue.
I also think talking in terms of Battle Zones would make things a lot less confusing - and things are clearly slightly confusing just from the number of comments! Then it's just: 2 BZ & 1 Acc, 4 BZ & 2 Acc, and so on.
I will say that I think that the sprues are slightly expensive as they stand - nearly £5 each (after the conversion rate and Amazon transaction fee), which means £15 to build a small single-storey building.
@Mantic - what are you final plans for pricing these? I think it might be better for both parties to buy these off you in Pounds Sterling after release, even excluding 3rd party retailer discounts of 10% or so.
Adding more terrain options IS "making the game better" imo. Bravo, Mantic, I say...
@mantic thanks. I get it now. :)
Yeah. I still vote for rationalising the pledge levels in terms of battle zones. Sprues are just confusing...
Lets live in hope that we are both wrong.
Lee that's what I thought, which strikes me as odd. As long as I can manage the extra $50 I might as well just stay at Strike Team.
Which apparently Colin has already spotted! Stupid caching! :)
Hang on a sec: "@ Kosongz - you get 6 Core Worlds Building Sprues, 2 Connector Sprues and 1 Landing Pad at Strike Team, which is the equivalent of 2 BattlesZones." That's a typo isn't it? You mean 6 CW, 2 Con and 1 Accessory don't you? If you don't that's an awesome announcement.
Strike team is basically getting the urban skirmish lvl in with it . But its the set core buildings unlike the addons where u can choose which zones u want :)
Strike team is the place to be John , total of 9 sprues including 6 building 2 connectors and 1 access
Ok so if I get Strike Team I get more terrain than if I choose Urban Battlefield and I get all the miniatures and rules for an extra $50?
Or am I just confused?
I think creator that you meant to say that you get an accessory sprue in your reply to kosongz not a landing pad. Unless I missed something in which case horay..
Morning all! Here are the answers to all of the first page comments...
@ Tasker - the Kickstarter is to flesh out the range for Deadzone, both miniatures, terrain, components and the rules. So far we've given away loads of figures, now we're upgrading some of the terrain (which is fully compatible with the buildings you have) with all kind of new bits that allow you to customise your buildings further. Moving forwards we will have more terrain upgrades, but also new figures, new factions and new rules.
@ Ben - I'm sorry if it looks that way to you but it also upgrades the scenery add-ons which anyone can get, adding more choice and more options - ultimately these new backers are also driving the current pledge total meaning that not only can we upgrade the terrain kits, but we will break through more stretch goals allowing us to give away more figures.
@ Matt - these stretch goals both upgrade the scenery pledge levels and the scenery add-ons, both of which were responsible for yesterday's boost in the pledge fund and new backers. It offers more choice for people looking at the add-ons who might think "hey, I've got enough buildings."
Ultimately we cannot give away everything free (and I know that's not your argument), but the vast majority of our pledge levels will be getting additions over the remainder of the campaign. We totally understand your point of view but not only does affordable sci-fi terrain improve the Deadzone experience, but it is also universal and ultimately appeals to a broad spectrum of gamers in the community as a whole, which will allow us to bring in new backers.
The next stretch goal will be miniatures related and we will be mixing them up.
@ Kyle - yep, all of the tiles are held together using connectors, meaning the roofs pieces will be able to snap fit, unless you glue them.
@ Kosongz - you get 6 Core Worlds Building Sprues, 2 Connector Sprues and 1 Landing Pad at Strike Team, which is the equivalent of 2 BattlesZones. If you add $50 you get to choose two additional BattleZones - you'll be able to choose more Core Worlds Sprues or the Landing Pad Sprues. Hope that helps!
There is no difference between the normal buildings and the core world buildings - the core world buildings are the normal buildings.
@ James - Strike Team is the Sweet Spot but even when it comes to miniatures we cannot give everything away, let alone doing the scenery. More free stuff is coming, and something like this stretch goal improves the add-on you can get for your Strike Team pledge, allowing you to customise the scenery you get in your package.
@ Roberto - that should be enough, yep :)
@ Donnie - there are plenty more freebies to be given but, just like with any other Kickstarter, not everything can be given away for free. If we did that, we wouldn't actually have any money left to pay for the tools!
@ Rand - more is coming :) To address your other point, our last goal was to add in a free scenery sprue into Strike Team ;)
@ Gavin - Sorry you feel that way - we think the landing pad is awasome! So far we've been plying Strike Team with free models and free scenery sprues, this in really is the first bit of scenery focus we've had :)
@ Gavin (Gofur) Hunter - you'll need to switch reward levels ideally, but you can do that on the last day. If not, no worries we can do that manually afterwards, just saves us a little admin ;)
@ray bans, but the stretch is not for people backing the game which is Bens point. Its for people backing the scenery ..
@Ben and Tasker, I am not sure I get why you are complaining so much, terrain actually seems pretty important for gameplay for DZ. Seeing how you work with different hights line of sight etc. From the beginning we have received free terrain to go with the factions. They beefed out the factions quite a bit before going to terrain enhancements. And to be honest the project was stalling a bit with the last miniature and got a amazing boost yesterday ending in the 3rd best day moneywise since the beginning.
Don't worry about not getting more miniatures, remember the teaser images of the medic/flamethrower/grenadelauncher (who knows!) that was released a couple of updates ago.
This is a kickstarter fo a squirmish game on a terrain filled battlefield. If you want to armies of miniatures, I'd suggest going to the Mantic website and picking some up from there. And please keep positive, the sun is out for once.
i think a choice of terrain is making the game better , options are a great thing and as this game is based on using modular 3d terrain what were people thinking would happen when it was released ? cmon folks really , if from now to the end was purely terrain stretch goals then yes fully understand the argument about the direction , but its only been 1 goal set on the release day of the terrain , pretty well thought out me thinks !1
And I should point out that this is comming from somebody that will be buying a lot of these scenery sprues.
Sorry Mantic but I have to throw my lot in with the WTF group.
This Kickstarter is supposed to be for the making the game better. Not for making a shed load of different terrain.
The terrain should have had it's own seperate Kickstarter.
This user's account has been deleted.
Ben, it is a stretch goal for an "add on", the "add on" happens to be scenery, and scenery is a part of the package for the game.
But if you remove the "scenery" from the description, it is still just a stretch goal for an "add on"
I also note that you haven't actually countered any of my core arguments, it's just, "Shut up and drink the Kood Aid."
But my motivation couldn't possibly be because I want to see this Kickstarter go as well as possible, could it? No, it's just because I want Mantic to cater to me, personally.
@ Matthew & ray - Cross posting, but...I don't believe I did complain about others, nor am I asking for what I, personally, want. In point of fact, I am one of those hardcore people who will spend money on terrain. I, however, do not represent the biggest percentage of people who will pledge to this Kickstarter. That's the point.
I have never said that terrain add-ons were anything other than a very good idea, which if you weren't trying to read something into my posts in order to justify your own attitude, you'd know. Or, for that matter, terrain stretch goals that have a clear value add for the average backer. My comments related specifically and only to this stretch goal.
Nor, for that matter, am I being 'negative' and I don't recall particularly arguing with anybody, just expressing an opinion. Mantic are big boys and girls, they don't need you to fight their battles for them. While appealing to expertise is not usually a technique I approve of, I do know a little bit about how to sell people a 'product', I've been doing it in one form or another for 15 years.
A great way to split & divide your community
Stretch goal for the scenery only backers?! FFS Mantic. You are ruining this Kickstarter little by little.
@Jon - Absolutely cater to those people...but don't cater to those people over your core audience. The problem with the terrain add-ons is that they have become somewhat of a 'kickstarter within a kickstarter'. Not until this specific point, before now they have been very well managed (and I think the addition of the terrain packs was brilliant, as I've said before) but the second you start making stretch goals for terrain 'unlocks', that's losing sight of the big picture.
To extend your analogy, exactly what percent of GW's sales do you think come from those terrain sales, in dollar figures? All you need to do is to take a look at the shelf stocks in a GW store (or have a chat with a store manager) to know that it's a tiny, tiny amount. It's all about the numbers and appealing to your base, they're the demographic you have to keep happy - and where you're going to see the best returns.
Let me be clear, I am NOT one of those complaining that I am not getting 'free stuff'. I am, however, questioning the wisdom of the decision from a marketing point of view and in terms of broad appeal to their target audience (and that's what a successful Kickstarter campaign is, it's one big marketing exercise).
Yes, free stuff is great. However I would have been just as happy with a stretch goal that unlocked a new unit for purchase and/or increased the value of existing add-ons - whether they be miniatures or terrain (ok, not quite just as happy, but you get the point). Personally I would rather miniatures, but that wouldn't make terrain a mistake.
A terrain 'style unlock' though...that's something that by its nature has a very limited appeal, which is why I have criticised the decision. This BattleZone stuff has the potential to derail the whole Kickstarter if they are not very careful about how they manage it, which would be a terrible shame.
Unlike many people, I don't assume infallibility on behalf of the company, so I thought it might be a good idea to give them some thoughts to consider. Of course I'm operating on limited information which might invalidate my point...but then again, it might not.
There will be a lot of variety in the different stretch goals,
If they make a couple of stretch goals I can understand your comments, but really, it has been rather balanced between different type of stretch goals, and this is one of the ones that people have been asking for.
Instead of being critical about what you do not like, request what you do want.
Being negative on a stretch goal, that has actually increased pledges, and made other backers happy, just reflects poorly.
And if potential backers just see arguments and negative comments like that, is it really going to encourage them to join in?
@Matt Hee, your criticism is not constructive, it is self serving.You cannot give an opinion on something you do not care for. How do you know how much everyone has pledged on scenery? You cant know. Did I increase my pledge be $50 or $500? I won't be increasing my pledge for lots of add on mini's, I have plenty now, but I will for a couple of tables of scenery. You want stretch goals that satisfy your needs and wants, but you are not the entire community. How can the very expensive(compared to the mini's) stretch goals reduce the money coming in? Does not add up. The evidence is in today, more backers and heaps more cash, which places the stretch goals you want closer to being passed, or should I start to complain that we should have more terrain since the largest influx today was from terrain backers? Live and let live, and just ask for what you want rather than complaining about others.
Would be nice to see some abandoned vehicles as terrain that don't cost the earth !! Just saying :) after all its always been a bug bear of mine we fight battles in abandoned curries yet not a single car or lorry is left behind !!
Would be nice to see some small vehicles for the factions as well
Sorry, misread, any of the Addon Terrain can be used to choose it,
it looks like the Stuff in the Strike Team pledge is not something that will be used to choose.
but if you top up the $50, one of the Battle Zone Choices will be the landing pad.
you will be able to choose which options you have as part of your Strike Team pledge.
One or more of those choices can be used to select the Landing Pad.
There is more then enough terrain in the Strike Team pledge for the Base Game. just a lot of us like more terrain.
So the Landing Pad can be used as one of the Terrain Freebies you are already getting, but it is not automatically selected and thrown in for you.
Okie, English is not my first language and I get confused sometimes. I get two battle zones for striker and if I top up $50, I get another 2 battles zones. And I also get the landing pad when that stretch goal is reached. Correct? And that's enough terrain for the base game.
This has turned into a bit of a rant so please ignore if you don't want another irritating discussion
My take away from a lot of this discussion is that some people are disappointed and perhaps disgruntled, that they are not getting any thing for FREE. I don't see anyone complaining that the Striker (I agree that this is the Golden Egg pledge level) just got a free terrain sprue. Maybe that and the free Plague HMG slipped every ones mind.
It is important to remember that the goal and point of a KS is to provide capital to create and produce a product. Mantic is giving us input as to the options and to what kind of product they make available so that we can each have something we enjoy. Am I going to want everything that they produce? no. As long as it expands the games possibilities for some one, I think it is great. I personally don't want space elves but there are those that do, why should I cry foul if they offer them? I just won't up my bid for them.
I find it fascinating that there was a strong interest in terrain and anticipation of when it would be announced and now people are complaining now that it has been announced.
Some folks will just be here for the terrain--awesome, some couldn't care less--excellent! Many have upped their pledge to get more--outstanding. Most of the terrain is an add-on component so if you don't want/need/care don't buy it.
If you don't like Space Dwarfs don't buy the Helfather or any of his kin if they become part of the KS. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to increase their pledge just to get the next stretch goal over. We have over 3 weeks and plenty of room for more backers to move things along.
I forsee a large number of Add-on options with a sprinkling of freebies for both the mini side and the terrain side. this will give the IP a greater range of possibilities to garner greater interest from more people.
I love freebies and I think that the Strike Team pledge is already an incredible value. Would I like to see more free stuff? Sure. do I want the pledge levels to go from the current 25K to 100K for the freebie? No. But that is what would need to happen fi this KS continues to grow like I believe it will. Not only do the artist need to be paid and the tools produced but they also need to cover the cost of production, shipping, sorting and repackaging. I don't think this KS is going to the "Ronnie Renton Lamborgini Fund" and I would be fairly surprised if they even break-even at the end of the day. Their profits from this are long term and will come down the road a bit as they start getting this into the retail markets.
@mantic - Cool stretch goal. I like the idea of "battlezones" as a modification to the terrain add-ons. Keep it up! Still hoping for new factions, but cool 3d counters would be really cool too.
@Matt - every White Dwarf magazine I can remember featured some type of LZ for the ultramarines and/or aquarium style woods for Space Elves and Tyrranids. So, I can definitely see this appealing to people. People at the $95 terrain level might think...hmm, I've GOT to up to 180 just to get ENOUGH of the cool terrain that I want. So, if some folks say that - can't you believe it's smart on Mantic's part to cater to them?
I personally want diseased and overgrown tiles for corridors to play a whole 'nother style of game. In space.