Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
I especially liked the part of the article where Dave and Jerry were completely honest and upfront about the project!
We backed the Worlds Thinnest Watch and we got the Worlds Thinnest Story.
Best article I have read on this protect. The only one to point out the lies, and shock horror who would have guessed. They uncovered yet more lies!
I trust Flextronics a lot more than the CST people... They have an excellent reputation... I have to admit that the supposedly fake van story was the last nail in the coffin for me.
I'd really like to see this lab IX contract.
I wonder how many rights CST signed over in exchange for their "investment".
The only comment from lab IX is that they met their obligations...I wonder what those were. I wonder if lab IX has any claim to the CST IP.
It'd be interesting to see if they're holding on to the parts and tooling in the hopes of resuming production for themselves after CST is officially gone.
I don't trust either of these companies.
FULL DISCLOSURE NOW!
"Incompetence that led to fraud"...I gotta give it to that guy, that's the best description of this campaign ever.
Pour ifnormation : Il est vraiment très simple de renseigner les informations demandées par https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov , il n'y en a pas pour plus de 10 minutes, même si votre anglais est approximatif...
Observer article - just wow...
Everyone please visit: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov and file a complaint against CST. Select "Internet services, online shopping, or computers" then "Online shopping"
Vondle and O'Leary are crooks. They lied to us all.
The comments from Flextronics and CST are pretty funny. I remember a video CST did for Flextronics Lab IX, where CST was talking about how great Lab IX is and how much Lab IX helped in finishing the CST-01. I can't seem to find the video any more, it appears to have been removed.
I'm in no way trying to stick up for CST but fair is fair, both companies are not been truthful and are trying to cover their butts.
“Fake It ’til You Make It,” but he didnt make it ):
Interesting quotes from the article:
"we were particularly interested in the sob story about the van living quarters. In an update posted on the Kickstarter page on April 17 of this year (when backers were really beginning to demand answers, photos of the product and proof of where the money was being spent), the project’s creators posted photos of a van with a bed in the back, claiming it was permanently parked in Flextronics’ parking lot and that creator Mr. Vondle was living there in order to be closer to the process.
Ms. Sargent [Note: Jeannine Sargent of Flextronics - Not part of article] confirmed this is just plain untrue."
"Ms. Sargent is the president of innovation and new ventures at Flextronics, and she revealed what is possibly the biggest blow: Flextronics not only manufactured for Central Standard Time, but invested in the company as well."
Oh look, their story is falling apart! If there was a Kickstarter made for FTC investigation or lawsuit, it was this one.
Please send me my parts... That will warn me next time I'll look on KS projects
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov I wish we had something that simple in my country...
Just refund me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
castro and florian! how much is CST paying you for these comments? Reminds me of when CST sent those handful of (faulty) watches out to friends and asked them to come here and comment stuff like "oh received my watch yeeey"
Steven raises a good point for future Kickstarter projects, all shipping funds should go into a trust and only allowed to be accessed once goods are ready to ship.
lol @ castro's profile
I will not be asking for any refund, this was a challenging endeavor and inspiring in its lofty goal. Product development is tricky. Developing products around emerging technologies is even trickier! What will you be attempting next...
Out of curiosity, as nothing was "shipped", the $15 we paid for international shipping should at least be refunded,no? Did they not have to keep the shipping funds needed aside,for that purpose? These clowns just ripped us all off with bogus info and stupid "hey, i slept in a van to save money" excuses. While I have just registered my complaint as others below here with the FCC, it is just so that these idiots know how much the lies hurt people kind enough to back them. I want to see their houses and cars sold to give us back our money, but at the bery least, Kickstarter should have some type of contingency fund, for when things done through their site don't pan out. Moreso when it is as poorly done like these guys. Imagine if Kickstarter had contacted them to say hey, you gotta respond minimum once a month,or whatever. Kickstarter has lost me for any project through their site due to these asshats and their lying,cheating ways. I want them to sell stuff off, and refund me my $145. Shipping costs were never incurred,for starters. Where's that money gone?
Sorry, florian, I have to disagree with you. We took risks based on what was formalized during this project's inception. Vondle and O'Leary did not follow through with the original plans. They gambled with our funds on several occasions, making changes without our permission or performing a risk assessment. They are 100% liable.
If you agree, please visit: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov and file a complaint against CST. Select "Internet services, online shopping, or computers" then "Online shopping"
Hi Dave and Jerry
Between all these complaints I would like to thank you for the efforts I believe you put in. We all signed up for a crowdfunding and I for my part have no intention to add insult to injury and to blame you for unfortunately materialised risks which I knowingly took. Good luck for the future! Best.florian
FTC complaint filed so if many people on here do the same they will not be able to ignore the disaster that is CST. Dave Vondle and co needs to be held personally accountable for the total mis-management of this project. Shame on them.
I lost 244,00 $ in this project. I have the feeling that the only way to truly understand what happened will be through FTC...
I re-read your reply to me when i stated is there action you could take. I understand the docs you had to sign. I deal with manufacturers and agreements daily with the business that I run.
Were you originally given a rate of failure with parts? Did you have business insurance or was almost 100 percent outsourced not requiring it etc. i didnt realize one company had gone belly-up, will you be providing more detailed data soon?
Id like to see a quickbooks breakdown, you said you would "open the books", opening them is displaying all data. I Think more data and transparency would help things.
CST show receipts and packing slips if your telling the truth every shipment received should have both
"You already think that we don’t have the parts, so I’m not sure how anything short of opening all of our boxes and dumping thousands of parts on the floor will fulfill your request."
I don't think would be practical or proof that the parts are really there. It would be easy to fake such photos.
The only way to prove that the parts were purchased and the monies spent as claimed would be to submit a certified, independent accounting of the funds by reputable firm. Your home made bar and pie charts don't cut it.
You have been so straight forward and honest (not) with backers for the last 2 years, that you don't have the trust of most backers, for example I can't believe you guys only took a salary of $4000 each for 2 years and spent all your personal savings just to keep the project afloat.
Get to dumping, I say!
Don't hold your breath about receiving the parts. They most likely do not exist as they were never purchased.
Spoiler alert for the near future:
CST will not update for over a month, and when they do, it'll be to give an excuse for why sending the parts just isn't possible. "Sorry, some of these parts are proprietary, and our vendors had us sign a strict agreement not to distribute the parts individually, as a non-assembled product." Some crap like that. Not to mention, where are they going to get the money to ship the parts to all 7000 backers?
If you haven't picked up on this yet, I'll help you out. There is only one possible outcome for participating in a project run by these guys: Receive nothing. There was never going to be another outcome.
Project 29 "Hello Backers, Last week, we worked with our manufacturer to finish building, testing, and shipping our first batch of products!...We are delighted with how the product has turned out and are excited to be getting them onto your hands.
At this stage we are being careful to start slow to make sure our process has all of the kinks worked out of it. For those of you who are curious how we are going about the shipping queue, we are shipping by both order number and the SKU that we are currently producing. We have started with the black, raw titanium, medium watches for this shipment, but will be changing the line over to cover the different color and sizes in subsequent orders.
Now would be a good time to make sure your address is correct in the Kickstarter system. If you are unfamiliar with how to update your address, we wrote a brief tutorial here blabla Thanks again for the patience and and support. -Jerry & Dave | CST"
And of course, on feb 05, you did not know that you will not be able to deliver anything to your backers...
All of a sudden you appear here trying to pretend that you care at all? How about refunding us as a token of your caring? You might think that it's pointless to ask for a refund as you know well that you are not going to give one, BUT it's better this way than facing a lawsuit. If one project was successfully sued, I don't see why this one shouldn't be. In sure you are hoping that people will eventually give up or get tired of this and you can just walk away. Not going to happen.
@cst maybe at some point you would like to explain the deliberate actions you under took to mislead every backer about the status of the project for well over a year. You lied, you had friends create fake reviews, you had friends take picture of their watches to validate your completely misleading "we are shipping" update. This whole project, was a " fake it until you make it" exercise. Except you failed to make.
FTC complaint filed
Select Internet shopping,online services tab and fill out form.
There are 8000 reasons to follow through
Let's be completely honest here...
This lame attempt at an apology is nothing more than a preemptive strike against an inevitable FTC fraud investigation. Considering the recent ruling for a Kickstarter project to refund its backers due to fraud...
'Look how we tried to say we are sorry to our backers for bullshitting them for 3 years as we either mismanaged or just flat out stole their investment in our project....' Does this about cover it?
I'm thinking the majority of your 8000 investors (even the few befuddled backers that told us we just didn't know the struggles of modern mfg.., who still want to put gas in Jerry's van for him) feel like you have been less than honest. So this long winded plan 'Z' speech is falling on less than sympathetic ears.
Jerry, if I were you... I'd go liquidate it all (if you have not already done so) and find the "World's Thinnest Swiss Bank" to hide what's left from the FTC.
PLEASE SEND THE TITLE TO YOUR VAN TO
123 No Fucking Way
Burlington, NC 27215
Many of these orders were made NCNR (non-cancelable and non-returnable). That said, we still should not have been shipped broken parts. We are talking with the vendors about returning the broken units. In one case the vendor told us they would take back the DOA parts and credit us. This was for the battery. This is part of a cautionary tale we will go into further detail about around the dangers of single-source suppliers and small companies in particular. With the battery, we had already had one supplier, Thinergy, go belly up and leave us high and dry. We identified one other supplier who could scale quickly and had similar properties. They told us that we would need to sign a waiver that the parts were NCNR. So, what are our options? We found 0 other paths that would not result in significant delays, we asked Flextronics to look into their network for an alternative, they couldn't identify anyone, so we were forced to sign it and hope for the best.
We went through our photos over the past couple of years and posted them again in order to respond to requests for pictures of parts in Update #32. Apart from this, I’m not really sure how to better fulfill your request. Even if we had access to the storage facility within Flextronics (we don’t), the parts are in boxes (more often than not, in trays, in boxes, and then in larger boxes). So do you want us to take pictures of a bunch of boxes? You already think that we don’t have the parts, so I’m not sure how anything short of opening all of our boxes and dumping thousands of parts on the floor will fulfill your request. When we receive parts from Flextronics, we will post photos of this, and will open a representative box for each SKU to show the parts. However this will not happen until we pick everything up.
In case you didn’t look through update 32, here’s a list of the parts in the pictures:
Trays of tested and untested e-ink displays
Trays of completed Base Stations
Assembly of hundreds of base station flex circuits
Open trays of batteries
A picture of opening a box inside of shipping & receiving, to inspect quality. These boxes contain all of our plastic parts.
Panels of base station circuit boards
A bag of thousands of springs
A tray of complete watches
Who would buy them?
How much would you get? 10 cents on the Dollar if we are lucky?
--> Just send me my parts!
they'll be worth more to me than whatever some 3rd party will pay you for them.
Do you have the parts? Your new chart states you want to recover 100% from Flextronic. 100% of how many? ~8000 I hope.
Please still show us pictures of the thousands of bands, batteries and displays, so we have a proof that you actually spend the Million USD on parts and didn't just pocket it. The FTC will want to see that too.
CST, i don't mind I paid over $100 for this project. But I think you should refund the shipment fee because you should not use these money before delivery.
Let me get this straight. You can post about another project but not this one? What kind of a horrible person are you? I have no respect for you at all. As you can see people follow you VERY closely and they will make sure that you don't succeed anywhere else! How about responding the requests here? such as show us the material you claim to have bought?
You two are pathetic.
I find it tragic that Dave and Jerry could not be arsed to post a response in the comments for months, but now that there's another project at risk they are all over making sure we know it's not them. Well, it is, but not really. Promise. Love and Kisses.
maybe the contracts were written in Chinese so David and Jerry couldn't understand them.
I just dont understand why you cant go after suppliers who screwed you to recoup costs due to them.
Nothing new for me... but thanks for inform us
There's been a lot wondering whether Dave and Jerry have started another Kickstarter, The short answer is no,
The following is from the Epik page showing that Jerry is not involved in that project, merely helping with some keyshot rendering issues.
Here's that update from Scott over at the EPIK project. copy and pasted from the EPIK page:
There’s clearly been some anxiety caused by comments here around an unrelated Kickstarter company/project from 2 years ago, and one of that project’s founder’s relationship with MINIMAL. The following comments address the issue.
1. We (Scott Wilson, MINIMAL and LUNATIK) have nothing to do with the CST (Central Standard Timing) project. They are independent and unrelated entities.
2. We have a well documented and credible track record on Kickstarter with 3 prior projects, which shipped product as promised.
3. I, Scott Wilson, personally backed the CST project two years ago.
4. Jerry O’Leary started working at MINIMAL in early 2015. His role at MINIMAL is based on his exceptional talent as a product designer and nothing to do with CST, the project or business.
5. While Jerry is now an employee and team-member at MINIMAL, the Epik project is being led by me, Scott Wilson. Jerry is not involved and has only helped me troubleshoot some Keyshot animation/rendering bugs. Jerry continues to work on CST in addition to MINIMAL, just as he did while at IDEO, his former employer. This is the case with many Kickstarter founders.
6. The negative comments on our message board in the past 24 hours relating to CST are due to a backer(s) of that project telling other backers to join this project for $1 so that they can come and spam our message board with CST comments. There is obvious frustration from CST backers, but the Epik message board is not an appropriate place to vent them.
7. I am not going to let a minority of outsiders that have nothing to do with the Epik project distract my team and I from delivering these products. If my explanations are not enough to put your mind at ease then it’s your choice whether or not you want to support our work and this project.
Again, my/our track record(s) and reputation speak for themselves. Our original LUNATIK nano watch kits fulfilled over 350,000 units worldwide. We are using the same suppliers for Epik. Make your own informed decision. It’s unfortunate that there are a few folks out there who are intent on stirring things up based on misplaced belief’s and information.
Just a reminder, Kickstarter is for new ideas. People pushing the boundaries of their respective creative fields or people with dream that no one else may believe in but possibly the greater collective crowd may. I am proud to have inspired a new generation of designers, entrepreneurs, dreamers and risk takers, however, I can only take responsibility for the projects that I have created.
Can't read this update without LOLing.
We pissed off Flextronics, so let's cover our ass and talk about how cool they are, and this is definitely not scripted.
P.S. No watches, suckers.
You have to wonder how much of the million USD + has gone in to this other Kickstarter. I really hope some legal entities in the US can get involved and break open this mess.