What you guys need to do is go to to the bank and file a charge back. You'll get your money back within a few days. Show them the email showing the shipping date. Tell them you PURCHASED the product and was suppose to receive it at the date shown. And that it never got there. I got my cash back
Did ANY of you get their money refunded? I sure as hell did not!
Regardless the private message in which ZRRO states that they "tried" to refund on my credit card (which still is the same card that I used to pay with in the first place) several times...
Regardless that they asked for my PayPal account, which I gave them...
Regardless all the reminders that I sent them...
Hey, I'm really disappointed that your project was unable to get off the ground. I see from the comments that we're all waiting for refunds and/or updates on refunds. I'm sure we'd all appreciate some transparency with regard to how many refunds you are able to do per day and how long you project the refund process to take. Any chance you can relieve our concerns? Thanks.
Dear backers,
We are refunding backers on a daily basis.
As we advised earlier this is a tedious process dictated by the Kickstarter platform.
Nevertheless, rest assure we will refund all backers as we stated in our earlier updates.
@Creator Kickstarter support told me "As funds are dispersed directly to the project creator, we're unable to facilitate refunds." - Please confirm/clarify exactly how our refunds will be processed and by which date we should expect them.
[FWIW, I'm sorry you couldn't pull off this project and I was really hopeful a device like ZRRO could come to life. Thank you for trying.]
Another possibility is that the growing threat of legal action led to them deciding to terminate rather than continue trying to find a way to move forward. Now I know the updates were seriously lacking. They brought it on themselves in that sense. Backers always hate being in the dark. So since you've quite possibly contributed to killing this campaign. Please do all of us a favour. Sit back, wait for your refunds and STFU!
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 8
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit:9
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 9
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit:
Sorry to read project has failed. Glad to see refund will be made. Do hope, it will not put the ZRRO people off for starting out again. You learn from your failures.
Thanks Co- funders for stirring up the heat too, incl class action threat. I would support that too.
For now hope refunds will be made timely- so I can sort out other xmas present for son.
First I'd like to thank Andy for his assistance with the class action suit issue. � I apologize but I became very busy since posting that, and it fell through the proverbial cracks. Thanks also to the rest who decided to add their names to the list. It is my firm belief that is the reason why we are getting a refund in the first place, as they had every opportunity to update us on the controller problem a long time before now-yet they chose to spoon-feed us generic form updates. Once they saw the growing list of people willing to take action, and only then, did they not only post an update that was personally written but offer a refund before things got out of hand for them. Again, thanks to you all, and now we wait to see how long it'll be before we actually see the refund.
This controller is revolutionary and really NEEDS to be made. I would most likely back the project again if they were to relaunch with updated pricing.
(Though that may depend on how much of my pledge they finally refund.)
My one major complaint about the campaign is the lack of information in the updates. I hope they would do a better job of they try again.
That said, I think the delay was well explained in the end. It sounds like they spent most of that time trying to find a way to make this project happen. And then to consider how to handle the failure. Can't fault them for that effort.
I really hope we can someday see this controller on store shelves or back here on Kickstarter.
Can you please explain how refund will be issued, how we go about getting refund, when refund will be issued, etc etc. My package was the $159 dollar one so I definitely wanna get my refund as soon as I can so I can use that money for something else.
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 6
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 5
Attention fellow backers!
I advise you all to contact the company handling your credit card. As you may know, when you buy something with a credit card, you have some customer protection. For instance, you can decline the sale within a certain period of time (mostly 90 days). However! You ALSO have a protection against none-delivery! Since the delivery date stated in this campaign is (as described under the 'campaign' tab, section 'The Production Timeline': "October 2015, Shipping begins" and/or under 'rewards': "Estimated delivery: Sep 2015".
We have long passed these deadlines and there has not been a delivery. Hence you can claim your money back at your credit card handler!
For instructions, please read: http://www.eccbelgium.be/paying-with-a-credit-card-protects-you-against-fraud-bankruptcy-and-non-delivery-s51101.htm This is valid for ALL Eurpean residents. For all others: I am sure that your own government acts by similar laws.
Demand a refund and have "the big boys" sort this out. We are all individuals, not strong enough as an entity to have a serious impact on ZRRO. I am pretty sure that Master Card or VISA or American Express are playing a different league. Let them deal with these fraudeurs!
@ Len
The problem with asking ppl if they are interested via the comments is that there is not a lot of ppl looking at the comments on a daily basis and it's basically our only way to communicate.
I think the only time that you could expect some actual activities here is just after an update from the creator.
Since this happens so seldom and has such a poor content the call for a class action lawsuit gets lost in the comments of frustration since most ppl just us it as a channel to let out their own frustrations.
But it f we repeat the call for a class action lawsuit with a live count it might work. I'll start the counting on two since Len asked for a hand up that must count as no. 1.
I found a firm that deals with class action suits, but before I waste my time and theirs calling, how about a quick poll to see whom would be interested? A simple yes would suffice, and obviously no answer is needed if you want to opt out. I'll check back periodically, but should we not get enough interested parties within the next week, I'll put this baby to bed and try to stop kicking myself for ever getting involved in this "project". Thank you.
I'm really liking what I read from Malek's post below... Maybe I'll start looking for attys that specialize in class action suits. They can't be that hard to find...
Like someone said ealier, any update is good news, even if its bad. I can wait as long as they are straight forward with us. It looks like they just left an update/comment the other day. Just patiently waiting that hopefully its just a matter of being late and were still going to get this here sometime soon. Although for as long as we've waited maybe they should surprise us like upgrading the hdd or the ram or something nice. I could be jumping ahead of myself and should probably hope we just get the damn thing. Either way I guess all I could do is wait patiently. Like I/We been.
Let's face it. This campaign is in serious trouble and it will most likely fail completely.
If there was any good chance that this gets actually produced they would be able to say so. Instead, mor then half a year after the camapign end, when they promised to deliver it already, they cannot even provide a single shred of evidence that they are actually developing or preparing anything for production at all.
Most likely the 6x10.000USD backers were a fraud. While we can't know if this was done by the creators or someone else, I suspect the former.
Luckily I had pledged down to just a dollar only to stay informed before the end due to the red flags. To anyone who pledged real money, demand your refunds and be persistent.
On the 30th of March you stated that the 6 backers for 10000 USD could not be named because of early stage development something something...
Those 60 000 made sure this project could fly as the project just made it with a little over 300 dollars marginal.
Would you say that it is still to early to name those investing companies due to security something, protect something or is it to protect someone? ...maybe with you affiliated they are?
Pls do not respond to this as it confirms my conspiracy
I have sent them personal messages as well as left comments on this. Several messages in fact and yet they haven't replied to a single one. I've requested a refund so many times, they've gone quiet. Very pissed off about this. Kickstarter doesn't help in getting refunds which is a shame. This was also a Kickstarter staff pick apparently.
I've seen this before, the level of communication drops to reluctant messages that have to be dragged out of the creator, the content of the messages falls to the level of vague reassurances, often so short they'd qualify as tweets.
It doesn't ALWAYS mean that the creator has scammed us, or that they have been let down/scammed by a dodgy manufacturer/supplier/distributor. But it could...
What always amazes me in these situations is how few creators realize that ANY regular news, even BAD news, is better than no news at all. Backers just want to be kept in the loop. Communicate!
I have backed projects that eventually delivered a good product, on time or slightly late, but because the communication was so poor the overall impression of the project and the creators was negative due to poor communication. Conversely, I have backed projects that were VERY late to deliver, but their constant honest open communication managed to keep must backers on their side (there will always be those that get cold feet and pull out).
The ZRRO people need to realise that tiny messages in broken English that have to be dragged out of them isn't going to reassure anyone. Dear ZRRO: Just set a reminder on your calendar to post an update every single week, no exceptions. Each update should include news, chats with team members, and a few photos. Every. Single. Week. Yes, even if the news is all bad. Some backers will react badly, but if you establish a regular schedule, most will calm down, eventually.
Oh, and requests for refunds should NOT be ignored. When I see requests for refunds being promptly, publicly, and courteously acted upon, it reassures me and makes me LESS likely to ask for a refund myself.
Anyway, as a reasonably seasoned kickstarter backer, with my fair share of disappointments and scams under my belt, that's my two cents worth of advice.
I'm conflicted... I've already posted a comment stating my displeasure, but if they have run off with the money, would they still bother to comment? The frequency and detail of communication has been unacceptable, but that may not mean the worst. One thing is clear in my mind, Kickstarter need to take more responsibility or their customer base will disappear if undesirables work out that this is a good way to fleece unsuspecting, honest people. Not sure how it works from the project side of things, but I guess Kickstarter take a cut of the $200k, so it might be considered that they are complicit in any potential deception? I'll leave you all with that thought...
Really ZRRO? Copy and paste your old, insanely overdue and non-informative update that you didn't even deliver on in the first place? You realize you just put the nail in your coffin. What a shame.
Dear backers,
We are sorry for keeping you waiting so long.
Indeed, we had some trouble fulfilling the deliveries on time.
We are now assessing the situation and will update you in the next coming days.
Thank for your patient and apologies for the delay and late update.
Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
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Show older commentsCreative Apparel on June 19
BTW you guys just made some dude from Israel rich. Next time stick to usa projects. Since mostly backers are from here.
Creative Apparel on June 19
What you guys need to do is go to to the bank and file a charge back. You'll get your money back within a few days. Show them the email showing the shipping date. Tell them you PURCHASED the product and was suppose to receive it at the date shown. And that it never got there. I got my cash back
CtrlAltDelicious on February 22, 2016
Did ANY of you get their money refunded? I sure as hell did not!
Regardless the private message in which ZRRO states that they "tried" to refund on my credit card (which still is the same card that I used to pay with in the first place) several times...
Regardless that they asked for my PayPal account, which I gave them...
Regardless all the reminders that I sent them...
STILL NOTHING ! ! !
Kyle Londors on December 15, 2015
Anyone got a Refund yet?
David Schulzinger on December 13, 2015
Hey, I'm really disappointed that your project was unable to get off the ground. I see from the comments that we're all waiting for refunds and/or updates on refunds. I'm sure we'd all appreciate some transparency with regard to how many refunds you are able to do per day and how long you project the refund process to take. Any chance you can relieve our concerns? Thanks.
Imran
Superbacker
on December 10, 2015
I believe the refunds should be coming in soon otherwise they would have already stopped responding...
Avi Bar Or on December 10, 2015
Hi never received any refund this is more like a re fraud!
How can we get the money back?
nullzero on December 9, 2015
If we get our money back will you get on another high risk kickstarter? If so, today starts another console -> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/smachteam/smach-z-the-first-handheld-steam-machine :)
ZRRO Ltd. Creator on December 9, 2015
Dear backers,
We are refunding backers on a daily basis.
As we advised earlier this is a tedious process dictated by the Kickstarter platform.
Nevertheless, rest assure we will refund all backers as we stated in our earlier updates.
Jorge Gomes
Superbacker
on December 8, 2015
@Creator Kickstarter support told me "As funds are dispersed directly to the project creator, we're unable to facilitate refunds." - Please confirm/clarify exactly how our refunds will be processed and by which date we should expect them.
[FWIW, I'm sorry you couldn't pull off this project and I was really hopeful a device like ZRRO could come to life. Thank you for trying.]
Kyle Londors on December 8, 2015
Still waiting.
No confirmation or refund yet
ZRRO Ltd. Creator on December 2, 2015
Dear backers,
Please see recent update from today.
Imran
Superbacker
on December 1, 2015
They mentioned in the update that we'll get an email from Kickstarter when the refund process is initiated......did anyone get one?
Kartik Billimoria on November 30, 2015
I haven't gotten anything yet. Wrote a comment asking when I would get a refund, no reply as expected...
Kristen Dyrr
Superbacker
on November 29, 2015
When are they supposed to go through?
Kyle Londors on November 27, 2015
Still waiting for my refund.
Anyone had their's yet?
Kristen Dyrr
Superbacker
on November 22, 2015
I agree with Barrett
Barrett Dent on November 19, 2015
Another possibility is that the growing threat of legal action led to them deciding to terminate rather than continue trying to find a way to move forward. Now I know the updates were seriously lacking. They brought it on themselves in that sense. Backers always hate being in the dark. So since you've quite possibly contributed to killing this campaign. Please do all of us a favour. Sit back, wait for your refunds and STFU!
Andreas Karlsson on November 17, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 8
Andreas Karlsson on November 17, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit:9
Andreas Karlsson on November 17, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 9
Andreas Karlsson on November 17, 2015
Give us a date for refund, which ought to be refunded asap.
Prince Chahal on November 16, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit:
Fien Hekstra on November 16, 2015
Sorry to read project has failed. Glad to see refund will be made. Do hope, it will not put the ZRRO people off for starting out again. You learn from your failures.
Thanks Co- funders for stirring up the heat too, incl class action threat. I would support that too.
For now hope refunds will be made timely- so I can sort out other xmas present for son.
Len Mulaski on November 16, 2015
First I'd like to thank Andy for his assistance with the class action suit issue. � I apologize but I became very busy since posting that, and it fell through the proverbial cracks. Thanks also to the rest who decided to add their names to the list. It is my firm belief that is the reason why we are getting a refund in the first place, as they had every opportunity to update us on the controller problem a long time before now-yet they chose to spoon-feed us generic form updates. Once they saw the growing list of people willing to take action, and only then, did they not only post an update that was personally written but offer a refund before things got out of hand for them. Again, thanks to you all, and now we wait to see how long it'll be before we actually see the refund.
Barrett Dent on November 16, 2015
Disappointed this project can't move forward. :(
This controller is revolutionary and really NEEDS to be made. I would most likely back the project again if they were to relaunch with updated pricing.
(Though that may depend on how much of my pledge they finally refund.)
My one major complaint about the campaign is the lack of information in the updates. I hope they would do a better job of they try again.
That said, I think the delay was well explained in the end. It sounds like they spent most of that time trying to find a way to make this project happen. And then to consider how to handle the failure. Can't fault them for that effort.
I really hope we can someday see this controller on store shelves or back here on Kickstarter.
S on November 16, 2015
Can you please explain how refund will be issued, how we go about getting refund, when refund will be issued, etc etc. My package was the $159 dollar one so I definitely wanna get my refund as soon as I can so I can use that money for something else.
Kartik Billimoria on November 9, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 6
Almog on November 9, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 5
CtrlAltDelicious on November 8, 2015
Attention fellow backers!
I advise you all to contact the company handling your credit card. As you may know, when you buy something with a credit card, you have some customer protection. For instance, you can decline the sale within a certain period of time (mostly 90 days). However! You ALSO have a protection against none-delivery! Since the delivery date stated in this campaign is (as described under the 'campaign' tab, section 'The Production Timeline': "October 2015, Shipping begins" and/or under 'rewards': "Estimated delivery: Sep 2015".
We have long passed these deadlines and there has not been a delivery. Hence you can claim your money back at your credit card handler!
For instructions, please read: http://www.eccbelgium.be/paying-with-a-credit-card-protects-you-against-fraud-bankruptcy-and-non-delivery-s51101.htm
This is valid for ALL Eurpean residents. For all others: I am sure that your own government acts by similar laws.
Demand a refund and have "the big boys" sort this out. We are all individuals, not strong enough as an entity to have a serious impact on ZRRO. I am pretty sure that Master Card or VISA or American Express are playing a different league. Let them deal with these fraudeurs!
CtrlAltDelicious on November 8, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 4
Malek El Ghali on November 8, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 3
Andy Holmstom on November 8, 2015
Repost this comment if you are interested in a class action lawsuit and add 1 to the count at the bottom if it's your first repost.
Total count for class action lawsuit: 2
Andy Holmstom on November 8, 2015
@ Len
The problem with asking ppl if they are interested via the comments is that there is not a lot of ppl looking at the comments on a daily basis and it's basically our only way to communicate.
I think the only time that you could expect some actual activities here is just after an update from the creator.
Since this happens so seldom and has such a poor content the call for a class action lawsuit gets lost in the comments of frustration since most ppl just us it as a channel to let out their own frustrations.
But it f we repeat the call for a class action lawsuit with a live count it might work. I'll start the counting on two since Len asked for a hand up that must count as no. 1.
Len Mulaski on November 5, 2015
I found a firm that deals with class action suits, but before I waste my time and theirs calling, how about a quick poll to see whom would be interested? A simple yes would suffice, and obviously no answer is needed if you want to opt out. I'll check back periodically, but should we not get enough interested parties within the next week, I'll put this baby to bed and try to stop kicking myself for ever getting involved in this "project". Thank you.
Len Mulaski on November 5, 2015
I'm really liking what I read from Malek's post below... Maybe I'll start looking for attys that specialize in class action suits. They can't be that hard to find...
Adi on November 5, 2015
I really don't see the point of the previous update
Malek El Ghali on November 4, 2015
I think it's time for a class-action lawsuit.
Please raise your hand if you're a lawyer ?
http://valleywag.gawker.com/it-just-got-easier-to-sue-failed-kickstarter-campaigns-1637720027
Kazuma on November 4, 2015
Uh oh..
Kartik Billimoria on November 4, 2015
Rather than giving false hope without any clear updates, can you do us all a favor and give our money back!!!
S on November 4, 2015
Like someone said ealier, any update is good news, even if its bad. I can wait as long as they are straight forward with us. It looks like they just left an update/comment the other day. Just patiently waiting that hopefully its just a matter of being late and were still going to get this here sometime soon. Although for as long as we've waited maybe they should surprise us like upgrading the hdd or the ram or something nice. I could be jumping ahead of myself and should probably hope we just get the damn thing. Either way I guess all I could do is wait patiently. Like I/We been.
Marv
Superbacker
on November 4, 2015
Let's face it. This campaign is in serious trouble and it will most likely fail completely.
If there was any good chance that this gets actually produced they would be able to say so. Instead, mor then half a year after the camapign end, when they promised to deliver it already, they cannot even provide a single shred of evidence that they are actually developing or preparing anything for production at all.
Most likely the 6x10.000USD backers were a fraud. While we can't know if this was done by the creators or someone else, I suspect the former.
Luckily I had pledged down to just a dollar only to stay informed before the end due to the red flags. To anyone who pledged real money, demand your refunds and be persistent.
Andy Holmstom on November 4, 2015
On the 30th of March you stated that the 6 backers for 10000 USD could not be named because of early stage development something something...
Those 60 000 made sure this project could fly as the project just made it with a little over 300 dollars marginal.
Would you say that it is still to early to name those investing companies due to security something, protect something or is it to protect someone? ...maybe with you affiliated they are?
Pls do not respond to this as it confirms my conspiracy
moahahaha I'm so wicked or is it u that r?
Almog on November 2, 2015
Zrro do you have any update about the project?
I tried to contact you guys and nothing.
No one answered yet, almost 5-6 mail and messages sent
Kartik Billimoria on October 26, 2015
I have sent them personal messages as well as left comments on this. Several messages in fact and yet they haven't replied to a single one. I've requested a refund so many times, they've gone quiet. Very pissed off about this. Kickstarter doesn't help in getting refunds which is a shame. This was also a Kickstarter staff pick apparently.
Skevos Mavros
Superbacker
on October 25, 2015
Oh dear,
I've seen this before, the level of communication drops to reluctant messages that have to be dragged out of the creator, the content of the messages falls to the level of vague reassurances, often so short they'd qualify as tweets.
It doesn't ALWAYS mean that the creator has scammed us, or that they have been let down/scammed by a dodgy manufacturer/supplier/distributor. But it could...
What always amazes me in these situations is how few creators realize that ANY regular news, even BAD news, is better than no news at all. Backers just want to be kept in the loop. Communicate!
I have backed projects that eventually delivered a good product, on time or slightly late, but because the communication was so poor the overall impression of the project and the creators was negative due to poor communication. Conversely, I have backed projects that were VERY late to deliver, but their constant honest open communication managed to keep must backers on their side (there will always be those that get cold feet and pull out).
The ZRRO people need to realise that tiny messages in broken English that have to be dragged out of them isn't going to reassure anyone. Dear ZRRO: Just set a reminder on your calendar to post an update every single week, no exceptions. Each update should include news, chats with team members, and a few photos. Every. Single. Week. Yes, even if the news is all bad. Some backers will react badly, but if you establish a regular schedule, most will calm down, eventually.
Oh, and requests for refunds should NOT be ignored. When I see requests for refunds being promptly, publicly, and courteously acted upon, it reassures me and makes me LESS likely to ask for a refund myself.
Anyway, as a reasonably seasoned kickstarter backer, with my fair share of disappointments and scams under my belt, that's my two cents worth of advice.
:-)
Skevos Mavros
James on October 24, 2015
I'm conflicted... I've already posted a comment stating my displeasure, but if they have run off with the money, would they still bother to comment? The frequency and detail of communication has been unacceptable, but that may not mean the worst. One thing is clear in my mind, Kickstarter need to take more responsibility or their customer base will disappear if undesirables work out that this is a good way to fleece unsuspecting, honest people. Not sure how it works from the project side of things, but I guess Kickstarter take a cut of the $200k, so it might be considered that they are complicit in any potential deception? I'll leave you all with that thought...
Niels Goldstein on October 24, 2015
Where is the MANAGE PLEDGE BUTTON to cancel/refund?
Jeff on October 23, 2015
Really ZRRO? Copy and paste your old, insanely overdue and non-informative update that you didn't even deliver on in the first place? You realize you just put the nail in your coffin. What a shame.
ZRRO Ltd. Creator on October 23, 2015
Dear backers,
We are sorry for keeping you waiting so long.
Indeed, we had some trouble fulfilling the deliveries on time.
We are now assessing the situation and will update you in the next coming days.
Thank for your patient and apologies for the delay and late update.