Funded! This project was successfully funded on April 29, 2012.

Update #50

What’s the Deal with DRM-free and Other Questions

Our Tuesday Kickstarter update generated many questions, particularly concerning the Steam vs. DRM-Free versions of the game. As we said, we wanted to wait until today to allow time for everyone’s questions and feedback to bubble up so we could write another update to address as many as we can, in one place.  

You funded this project because you saw something in our Kickstarter that resonated with you personally and made you want to be a part of it. Backers pledged more than financial support - you invested your belief in our ideas and gave us your trust that we would do what we said we would. We take that trust very seriously and are doing our best to be worthy of it. 

With your support, we will always do our best to fix problems or concerns that arise, with the understanding that some of the issues we must deal with may not always appear obvious to the community. We will endeavor to communicate such things more clearly and promptly to you, our Backers, whenever it is possible for us to do so. 

So let’s start here: We clearly left some critical information too vague, which resulted in some bad feelings and speculation. We are sorry about that and we’re going to fix that poor communication right now. 

  • To reiterate, our Backers don’t have to choose a DRM-free version of the game or a Steam version of the game. You get both. 
  • Backers who want a DRM-free experience with Shadowrun Returns (on Windows, OSX, and Linux) are getting the game, editor and all, and will be able to transfer community-created story files and update executables manually. (It works just like a non-Steam version of Skyrim: you can install mods manually or via a 3rd-party tool such as Nexus.) The DRM-free version will not require any internet connection or any form of online authorization to play. In addition, Backers who like the convenience and reliability of Steam and who want automatic updates, easy-to-browse content, and a DLC store are getting them. 
  • We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM. This didn’t come up earlier because the situation was complicated by the number of parties involved in the license and because the process was “ongoing”. Ultimately, we were able to successfully negotiate an exception with Microsoft for us to provide our Backers with a DRM-free version of the Kickstarter rewards (specifically the game and the Berlin Campaign) but that exception does not extend to non-reward DLC. So unfortunately, we cannot sell or give away DRM-free versions of the game or DLC on stores like GoG, and that’s why any future Shadowrun Returns DLC will only be available for purchase on Steam. 
  • We will be updating/bugfixing the DRM-free versions (Windows, OSX, and Linux) of Shadowrun Returns, maintaining them along with the Steam versions. These updates will require Backers to re-download the game from the Harebrained Account Website, since it will not include auto-patching functionality. 

To sum it all up. . . 

We hope you’ll see that we’re doing our best to listen to and address the issues you’ve raised. However, if after reading this update, you are still unhappy, we’d like to talk to you about it to see if we can address your concerns. Please contact us at info@hbs-studios.com and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible.

Again, it is a privilege to have the opportunity make Shadowrun Returns and we appreciate all the support you’ve given us. 

 HBS 

Important Note about the Harebrained Account Website Mails 

For Backers waiting for emails containing a link and password to the Harebrained Account Website-- the emails are still being sent in batches in no particular order, so please be patient. We’ll drop another quick update when they’re done. Also, if you know that the Kickstarter or PayPal emails you used to Back us are no longer active or have changed somehow, please write to info@hbs-studios.com immediately using the proper email address. 

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions:

I’m a $125 Backer (or above) and was promised a DRM-free download of the game, a copy on disc (in the boxed edition) and a copy on the USB dog tags. With this change, how many copies will I get?  

You’ll get a DRM-free download, a DRM-free copy on disc, three Steam keys for the game and three Steam keys for Berlin. 

Will the DRM-free version always be available to Backers through the website? 

Always is a mighty long time but yes, that’s our intention. 

Once it is available, will the DRM-free version of the Berlin Campaign always be available to Backers through the website? 

Yes. 

 Will the DRM-free version & Berlin Campaign be a downloadable executable that does not require internet to install? 

Yes. 

What version of the game will come in the Backer’s boxed version? 

The disc in the Kickstarter Deluxe Box Edition will contain the DRM-free version of Shadowrun Returns. 

What version of the game will Pre-order people get?  

All pre-order versions get a Steam key. 

How will pre-order people get the digital version of the Shadowrun Returns Anthology and Soundtrack?

Pre-order folk will get a mail from us giving them a link and password to the Harebrained Account Website, so they can download their goodies. 

Can we manually share community-created content from the DRM-free version to the Steam version and vice-versa?  

We haven’t finished Steam integration yet, but that is our goal. However, in the future, if a GM decides to use a Steam-only DLC in his or her story, that story would then only be usable in the Steam version because of this dependency. 

Will the Steam version be playable offline? 

Short answer: yes (though it still requires having Steam running on your computer). Here’s a link that explains how offline mode works with Steam: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555

Will the Steam version be playable offline after uninstalling Steam? Can the game be moved/copied to another PC without Steam? 

No, it will require Steam to run. 

Will the desktop version of the game (and future DLC) ever be available through other distribution channels than Steam

The desktop version will only be available for purchase on Steam at launch. It’s possible, depending on how they handle DLC and community-created content, to find alternate channels after launch. Again, they must support some form of digital rights management, according to our license. 

Will people who buy DLC through Steam be able to add it to the DRM-free version? 

This appears unlikely, given our DRM restrictions. 

Will the Editor be its own separate program? 

Yes, but it uses the game to facilitate testing of levels during development, so you'll want to keep them together. 

Can we manually share save data between different computers? 

Yes 

Can we manually share save data between different versions of the game? 

Mostly. We’ll obviously make every effort to ensure save data for our own stories remains compatible as bug fixes are released, but unfortunately we have a pretty tricky situation with regard to community-created content. Because we’re putting the Editor directly in your hands, we can’t guarantee that player-GMs will create content in a way that preserves and works with existing save data robustly and remains compatible. 

Also, we do intend to allow save games from the PC version to be playable on the Mac or Linux versions (or vice versa). For instance, play on your PC at work (not that we’d condone that of course!) and then continue playing on your Mac at home. We do not, however, plan on officially supporting save game data across desktop and tablet versions of the game. 

Why are you doing DLC on launch? 

We’re not. All DLC will be released after launch. 

Why not manufacture the dog tags now and load them with the game when its done? 

To be clear, our manufacturer isn’t waiting until the game is done. Manufacturing began some time ago. But they need to ship the finished dog tags back to the U.S. before the game is done and they will arrive just in time to be shipped out with all the other rewards. 

So will there be anything on the dog tags or will they be blank? 

Unfortunately, due to the timing issues and the cost, they’ll be blank and ready for 8GB of whatever you’d like to put there.

                                                                      * * * 

 We hope we’ve answered your most pressing questions and that we haven’t missed anything major. We’ll put together an extensive FAQ about the game and put it on our website ASAP.

Comments

    1. Photo2d.small

      Creator The Evolutionary on June 11, 2013

      It be interesting to know if the DRM-free negotiation with Microsoft (they had a major license component for Shadowrun?) was done before or after the campaign started. I understand the situation with licensing and you needed it to legally make the game which was your primary goal. It is also to your credit that you did make the effort to get the DRM-free edition in spite of MS clearly pushing otherwise. I know the MS culture and business practices with their customers fairly well (and they love sucking data/money from their customers) so its not surprising. This is why I got off the MS trail when I saw WGA and then then plans for Windows 7 (8 is even worse) so I specifically backed this project for a Linux version of this game and MS can suck my USB stick. Time to tell them "no", you don't own my computer, my data or me. That said, it would have be interesting to know the limitations and why from the beginning. Especially since you cannot even sell a DRM-free copy of the game to post-backer fans interested in purchases. That seems odd to me but I realizes knowing MS, its probably they allowed to backers only to get more on board for funding, and MS gets a commission from every shadowrun sale. Conflicts of interest like this should be revealed in all future kickstarter projects from the start. Mobeius told everyone about a 2nd adventure in their cycle, Mystery X, and a couple weeks after using it as a incentive, they revealed in video fine print that a 3rd party publisher had their hands in the works and agreements were made with them already. Had know that week one, I probably would have not contributed, or at least give less. The name of the game hasn't even been revealed a year after they raised their money. I consider that borderline fraud. Full disclosure of potential conflicts really need to be mandatory on these things. I partially blame the Kickstarter staff for not stress the requirement of honesty in their campaigns. Of course they are generally on the side of the project makers...since they bring in the money. Something to think about in crowdfunding...

    2. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Jennifer Ings on May 7, 2013

      Still haven't received the email to log in for my Rewards Account. Password request sent me a password that doesn't work "Warning: No match for E-Mail Address and/or Password."

      Seriously guys? It's already WAY past the 22nd and still no email? Hopefully there's going to be an extension for us that still haven't been contacted.

    3. Missing_small

      Creator drow on April 23, 2013

      Suddenly, the drone whirred to life, rising above the ferrocrete floor of the building and bringing its twin machine guns online. They sang out, firing explosive flechettes with a sound like "PONY PONY PONY PONY"

    4. Chin-me(greyscale).small

      Creator deonast on April 20, 2013

      Ok I'm less sore now that User created content has the ability to be imported / installed from other locations manually, and patches updates can be done manually. Still disappointed about future DLC for DRM free crowd (my self included there).

      So "Microsoft" again screws with people, a company so multifaceted that they can occasionally do things right, and more often just screw things up. Guess the DRM factor is why they still haven't got games on GOG. Helps me now to avoid any product with Microsoft branding, I don't give my money to arses.

    5. Avatar1_syndicate_wars.small

      Creator TanC on April 19, 2013

      Ah, I'll stop being the wet blanket so we can get all those 2800 slackers going. ;-)

    6. Avatar1_syndicate_wars.small

      Creator TanC on April 19, 2013

      @Ethan The angle I was getting at is how I (and I guess some others too) are feeling about Steam. I've no complaints about Steam and I'm glad it's there as an option. Also, more options means more players for SR:R and I'm all for that. But I would rather people be given both options as equal, that's all. I sincerely hope that there will not be fracturing of the playerbase since that will leave a lot of people who opt to use the DRM-free option isolated. Since it looks like only backers will receive the DRM-free version and from that, only a percentage of the backers...that makes us the minority. Also, it is not truly to spite myself since I do have a library of other games to play and just not buying that one game that offers DRM as the only option...it is really not a big deal, even if it's something I wanted for a long time.

      @Jalister I sure hope that publishers get the message quickly too...I love how pirates know how to send a good message. :)

    7. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      Note: The print version Anthology backer credits primarily affects the $100 tier and higher. ^_^

    8. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      Robin at HBS responded to my ping. The April 22nd deadline will likely cut off at 12pm (noon) PST. HOWEVER, this deadline is primarily for the Anthology backer credits (our names in the credits of the print Anthology).

      We have a couple more days (past the 22nd) at least for the other information, like the photos for the DocWagon Cards. - Though everyone should still try to get all their backer information updated as soon as possible! Especially if you want your name in credits of the Anthology! ^_^

      Ja Mata!

      -RC

    9. Missing_small

      Creator drow on April 19, 2013

      @veav I KNEW IT

    10. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      Shadowrun Returns Backers! 2800 of you haven't filled out your Rewards Account Info yet. April 22nd is the LAST DAY to get it done so you receive your rewards on time!

      Check your E-mail for your Shadowrun Returns (Harebrained Schemes) account login information from info@hbs-studios.com OR as William Shuster suggest, try going to http://account.harebrained-schemes.com/ and click on forgot password see if they send you a reset password. ^_^

    11. Avatar200.small

      Creator Jalister - OOoE / WoOS / SoSR on April 19, 2013

      It's been a while since I posted this, so I will do it again.

      I'm asking everyone to please not give out the DRM free version to anyone. Unfortunately SR will most likely get cracked and released. Let's all make sure that when that happens it's the DRM version that gets pirated, and not the DRM free version. This is a rare opportunity to show that DRM does not work.

      The last time I've seen this opportunity, it was the release of Witcher 2. The DRM version was cracked and released on the internet before the DRM free GOG version was. Both versions were released at the same time. CDPR was smart enough to realize DRM does not work.

    12. Avatar200.small

      Creator Jalister - OOoE / WoOS / SoSR on April 19, 2013

      @Ethan - I completely agree. After all this time, I'm not convinced that publishers actually believe DRM works. I think it may be about control. GOG, CDPR and Larian get it, and do not use DRM.

      What really baffles me is that Wasteland 2, Project Eternity and Torment all raised more money, and all are going to be DRM free and on GOG.

      I back developers on Kickstarter because I want nothing to do with publishers like Activision, EA, Microsoft and Ubisoft. I also want to support developers that don't believe in DRM.

      If I knew Microsoft had their hands in Shadowrun Returns, I would not have backed this. Unless it was made very clear that HBS was "licensing" the right to make SR from MS, and that Microsoft promised to stay out of it 100%, except for agreeing to the use of the license.

      I'm not asking for my money back, and I want my DRM free copy of the game and the second city. I'm not happy that future buyers will be stuck with the DRM version, or that I have to switch to DRM for any future content.

    13. Missing_small

      Creator eNTi on April 19, 2013

      i wanted to report, that HBS honoured my refund request. i donated the money to eff, since i don't want to deal with paypal.

    14. Avatar200.small

      Creator Jalister - OOoE / WoOS / SoSR on April 19, 2013

      To add to the GFWL question, I will not use GFWL. There are plenty of games I haven't played because of UPlay, Origin, GFWL, Starforce and Securom with online activation.

      I don't feel like I'm spiting myself because there are plenty of games to play. There is no single game that is just so unique and amazing that I would install UPlay or Starforce on my computer. I hope I will get to play Arkham Asylum and Arkham City someday, maybe if they ever get released on GOG.

      Plus there is the problem that DRM does not work for almost 99.99% of games. The only DRM that is currently successful are games that offload the game play onto servers, like MMOs and Diablo 3. I think even the always online SimCity has been hacked into working offline.

    15. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ethan David Knight on April 19, 2013

      @Jalister

      The most hilarious part is that DRM doesn't actually protect games, it's just an inconvenience towards legitimate customers. Pirates have no such issues; grab the cracked .EXE and play. Done.

    16. Avatar200.small

      Creator Jalister - OOoE / WoOS / SoSR on April 19, 2013

      I will never use UPlay. UPlay once offered a game I wanted for free, and two other games I wanted for $1 each. I was not tricked into UPlay.

      Origin tricked me with DA2 and ME3, but that's it. I really wanted to play the Bioware sequels. I will never buy a non-EA game on Origin.

      I don't need any more required accounts to keep track of to play the games I paid for. I do believe that DRM is actually contributing people pirating games.

    17. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      @Veav Hahaha Good job, Chummer! ^_^

    18. Image-269559-full.small

      Creator Frank Talbot on April 19, 2013

      @ Ben Tan, yes I would use GFWL even if I don't like this option as much. I'd even use UPlay if I had to.

    19. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      Not sure where I'd put the tail (bad angle for that), but http://imgur.com/989iddo

    20. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      @Veav, Hahaha... you may have left out the monogram on his vest and tail poking out from behind him :P

    21. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      And now, the one that gets me banhammered: http://imgur.com/HMaI9PT

    22. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      Man, fuck transformations. Srsly. http://imgur.com/f6Vixod

    23. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      Stupid genesis and its tiny viewable area: http://imgur.com/XDsge4T

    24. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      And one for the road: http://imgur.com/toNyx3o

    25. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      @drow A little something something to tide you over: http://imgur.com/LVDN5Wg

    26. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ethan David Knight on April 19, 2013

      Oh god, please don't even get me started on that Metro/App Store rubbish. Now THAT is something I won't use, spite be damned. It's going to take stronger men than Microsoft to get me to switch to Windows 8 :(

    27. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      @Emer Sure, HBS's own site is going to drive the "internal" distribution IIRC. And I've seen several games now being distributed through Humble's architecture. But I have to believe the market share would be through GoG; they've got the visibility, recognition, and advertising well in place.

      @drow Later, I promise.

    28. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 19, 2013

      @Ben What Ethan said, on all fronts. Silly Microsoft. GFWL and Metro 8 - both attempts to control the desktop space like they did the console and cellphone space, with disastrous results. :P

    29. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ethan David Knight on April 19, 2013

      @Ben Tan

      Yes, I would be fine with that. I already have half a dozen (if not more) titles that have GfWL forced on them. Would I *prefer* non-GfWL? Of course! I personally dislike GfWL, but I won't cut my nose off to spite my face. However, accepting that doesn't make me a DRM proponent (I know the angle you're getting at) it just means I'm not willing to spite myself in order to stick to some crusade.

      @Veav

      True, this is the "DRM" update but I strongly doubt the complaints will stay specifically on this update page.

    30. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ethan David Knight on April 19, 2013

      @Ben Tan

      Yes, I would be fine with that. I already have half a dozen (if not more) titles that have GfWL forced on them. Would I *prefer* non-GfWL? Of course! I personally dislike GfWL, but I won't cut my nose off to spite my face. However, accepting that doesn't make me a DRM proponent (I know the angle you're getting at) it just means I'm not willing to spite myself in order to stick to some crusade.

      @Veav

      True, this is the "DRM" update but I strongly doubt the complaints will stay specifically on this update page.

    31. Avatar1_syndicate_wars.small

      Creator TanC on April 19, 2013

      @AstralWanderer I believe that should be the general lesson to take away from all this. M$ = evil. I'm not surprised if their main goal was to derail KS in the first place; take away KS's credibility. :(

    32. Avatar1_syndicate_wars.small

      Creator TanC on April 19, 2013

      What if the situation was different? What if we were all given the option between GFWL and DRM-free. GFWL would be updated with the option for future content while the DRM free will still be updated without the option of getting future content (eg. similar to now except in place of Steam, we have GFWL). Would you guys go and register for GWFL? And please, do not say, "That situation is irrelevant, we're now using Steam" since I post this as a hypothetical question.

    33. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 19, 2013

      Hoi Chummers! Info on the Shadowrun Returns T-Shirt sizes! *This is all the info currently available* and it's subject to change

      http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/47599#Comment_47599

      It looks to me like the shirts run a little larger than other brands. Can't wait to sport mine this summer! ^_^

    34. Missing_small

      Creator AstralWanderer on April 19, 2013

      Just received confirmation from HBS of my pledge being donated, so they seem to be fulfilling their end of the bargain to pledgers as best they can.
      There have been a few statements about the credibility of Kickstarters in general, but this seems to be an almost unique case and if there is a lesson then it's "Think thrice before dealing with Microsoft!". It's a shame since that includes other FASA IP like Earthdawn or Battletech (which I would have been more interested in than Shadowrun) but there are other worlds and other projects to follow.
      However I've found it encouraging to see so many others taking a similarly principled stand plus those who have decided to hang on but with civility and dignity (Veav and RC most recently). For everyone else, best of luck and hope MS doesn't choose to throw more spanners at SR/HBS. Bye.

    35. Missing_small

      Creator drow on April 19, 2013

      ponies.

    36. Missing_small

      Creator Emeraude on April 18, 2013

      "To me it feels like a cheap shot every time I see it."

      To be honest, it probably kinda *is* a cheap shot* even without the inferred relationship (which is only there because I was lazy to rework the sentence instead of self-quoting). But I think it on par with what I've seen from the other side of the argument.
      It fits the "whiners"/"uncaring egocentric" pattern - one given for one taken. Wisdom would be to be above such petty moves, but hey...

      *: though the dictionary gives me a cheap shot implies the target is defenseless or vulnerable, which I'm unwilling to grant, given people with the other opinion *are* the majority - and self-conscious of it, which only reinforces their position. Unsportsmanlike and kinda mean though ? Yes, it fits.

      "I realize it's not actually Steam vs GoG, but isn't that where the effects would really be felt?"

      Indie Bundle tools (which were recommended on the official forums and even got a comment from Mr. Gitelman) or HBS's own site (which was mentioned in the original FAQ, was it not ?) would have been perfectly acceptable alternatives.

    37. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 18, 2013

      I'll buy that, but posting the quote in proximity infers that relationship. To me it feels like a cheap shot every time I see it.

      I realize it's not actually Steam vs GoG, but isn't that where the effects would really be felt? AFAIK GoG (and Desura, for smaller titles) is the foremost centralized source of DRM-free games. If HBS had been able to follow through on their initial plan, GoG would've/should've had it on tap.

    38. Missing_small

      Creator Emeraude on April 18, 2013

      You'll notice I didn't say *this* situation was an example of activism. It's just that I noticed the phenomenon from actual activism.
      It fits the situation though. However small its inherent merit.

      The fact that you are still framing this into Steam vs GoG kinda depresses me. The minority here is the one that has a problem with the DRM situation, as opposed to the majority that doesn't.

    39. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 18, 2013

      @Emeraude ...srsly? With all love to the EFF, rallying support for voting rights and civil liberties is a tad more weighty than whether or not you can play a football sim without connecting to GFWL. GOG's user base may be a mathematical minority compared to Steam, but comparing this situation to ACTUAL activism is either putting on airs for the DRM-free crowd, or mockingly dismissive of what OWS/ACLU are up to.

    40. Missing_small

      Creator Emeraude on April 18, 2013

      @Veav:
      More than fair enough.

    41. 75px.small

      Creator Veav on April 18, 2013

      To be fair, this IS the update explicitly discussing the whole DRM situation. So its comments section is an appropriate place. (The flip side is that update #51 will NOT be an appropriate place, unless they make the mistake of bringing it up again. :P )

    42. Missing_small

      Creator Emeraude on April 18, 2013

      Well, the problem is still here, is it not ? And it's not going away. Just because some of us are not satisfied with the situation and are won't to voice our opinion doesn't mean we have withdrawn any and all support for the game - orwant to be rubbed under the carpet.

      Still as relevant:
      "One of the first thing you learn in activism for minorities: the vast majority of people who are not suffering from the minority's problem are generally more vocal about the outcry of the minority, which does bother them, than the problem, which doesn't."

    43. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Ethan David Knight on April 18, 2013

      @Jess

      The funny thing is; HBS have offered refunds to any that request them and yet the same complainants are still here, griping and scowling about something they so clearly have no interest in any longer. Funny that. It makes me question whether these people actually wanted Shadowrun in the first place, or just another DRM-free Merit Badge in their activist sash.

      Just take your refund and be on your merry, seriously. You'll be happier knowing you're not funding DRM Terrorism® and everyone else will be happier knowing they don't have to logon each day and see the same constant complaints.

    44. Meanbadger1.small

      Creator Jess Montgomery on April 18, 2013

      I return to not so quietly question the sanity of most people claiming legal action and that they were lied to... errr woot? is my scientific response.

      You funded a game. It got funded. Yay! You get the DRM and non DRM version... but wait no one else can have a non DRM version? well thats Outrageous!!! I clearly was lied to and its then end times!!!! Lawers will sue everyone and there cats. Seriosuly my brain is full of badgers and this all make sless sense than me... just go sit quietly in the corner please HBS will most like have now got the message that in future they might want to try and offer full DRM free release options but right now they cannot, gee I need a cookie.

    45. Missing_small

      Creator Emeraude on April 18, 2013

      1) That's exactly what you said, though.

      Giving a copy of the DRM-free copy of the game to a Steam buyer might be ethically acceptable, but it's for the most part not legal - making a back-up copy of one's version, in most legislations in which this is legal, doesn't give you the right to make copies of versions you did not pay for (Paying for the Steam version doesn't give you the right of access to a copy of DRM-free version). What you were advocating here is piracy.

      2) That or I've stopped trusting you could understand.

      3) For someone who supposedly have read the thread, it sure seems like you haven't paid attention. My main beef here is certainly not with HBS, which I have so much as defended repeatedly in this very thread as with your callous disregard of people with a position that is not yours - and your general misrepresentation of said position.

      As for your curiosity, it is misplaced.

    46. Image-269559-full.small

      Creator Frank Talbot on April 18, 2013

      @ Serrin. Yeah I get what I want. I get Shadowrun Returns, which includes "A Digital Downloadable copy of the game, DRM free on PC" (among other things at my level). I'm even getting a Steam key in addition of that DRM free copy AND a DRM free DLC that wasn't even planned when I first signed up for this. Hard to complain really.

      YEAH (see, I use capital letters too) most projects have DRM and DRM-free versions. This one also planned for it. It failed for reasons we're not being told and honestly don't really concern us. I wouldn't lose anything if the game was compatible with my GPS and my NES either, but the thing is they seem to be doing what they can with the problem they had to deal with, and came up with a solution for backers (you get what was advertised) and for everyone (the game gets released). Not a reason to celebrate, but not really a reason to get the pitchforks either.

      Anyway I'm out, there's no way to please and reason with some of you guys. Have fun fighting that battle of yours.

    47. Image-269559-full.small

      Creator Frank Talbot on April 18, 2013

      @ Emeraude

      1) I never said pirating the game. Aren't you still allowed to own back-up copies of games/movies/music you've already bought? That's why I suggested to pay for the game (on Steam), never use that copy (so no need to install Steam, and be a rightful owner of a copy of the game), and use one of those DRM free copies like the one you have instead. HBS gets money and people get a game. Sure, you give Valve money but it's MS/HBS decision to use them, not yours.

      2) I guess your point wasn't important enough to explain better so let's just forget it.

      3) "And there is no point in asking for my money back. The deed is done. Besides, the only thing they can give back is the money. Not the time lost, not the hopes and trust betrayed." Cry me a river. Basically you're saying that you're coming here to complain without having ANY solution or ways to find a compromise. That's interesting.

      So again, let's say this is Kickstarter Day 1 and the campaign starts. They can't promise a DRM free version. You wouldn't pledge for this game? You wouldn't it to succeed until there's a DRM free "for life and for everyone" offered?

      And I said whiners for several reasons. First, there might have been a better term. Like I said, English is my 3rd language so that's the word I picked. My bad if it offended you. My problem is that while they seem to have legal issues and whatnot, they've still taken the time and effort to come up with a solution specific to us, instead of just saying "Yeah MS sucks, we can't give it to you, have to be Steam for everyone, sorry guys". I don't know, it does feel like they've tried and came up with what sounds like a decent proposal.

      Out of curiosity, how much did you pledge? You sound like you've given a month's pay + your sweat and tears for this project.

      And I didn't like the uncaring egocentric comment because if I was, I wouldn't have bothered commenting here. I wouldn't have funded this project or tried to help funding it so that everyone could play it. But anyway, say whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that the game is coming out soon and Steam might be the only option post-KS. Consider yourself lucky that it's at least coming out "soon", as most KS project barely deliver.

      Or hope they'll cancel it 2 months before launch. Whatever.

    48. Furgasicon.small

      Creator Furgas on April 18, 2013

      @Frank, by outright buying the shadowrun ip from microsoft and giving it to the public domain everybody could make a shadowrun game. I could make one. You could make one. We could make money off of it. Everybody could. Kittens could put dragon skulls on their heads and ride ponies.
      I know it doesn't offer much concrete stuff, no finished product in your hands, but the potential is very big. Jordan and co could make all the shadowrun games they wanted. Maybe, everybody in the world starts making shadowrun games. Then we would all have a lot of games to play.

      But, from the point of view of the creators of the shadowrun ip, Jordan & co, that would potentially be like seeing your baby torn apart by wolves. On the other hand, now their baby is being held ransom. But then again, they let it be kidnapped in the first place, so ehh.. I don't know if they would go for something like that.

      Anyway,there's some wiggle room, one thing (DRM-free for the masses) does not have to exclude the other (shadowrun game). It could be made DRM-free later on or, if such a public domain kickstarter is as succesfull as this one, right away.

    49. Missing_small

      Creator RC on April 18, 2013

      Hoi Chummers! Info on the Shadowrun Returns T-Shirt sizes! *This is all the info currently available* and it's subject to change

      http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/47599#Comment_47599

      It looks to me like the shirts run a little larger than other brands. Can't wait to sport mine this summer! ^_^

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