by Nightdive Studios
As others have pointed out - they backed this as a faithful remake, so the early "enhancements" were not appreciated and neither are the current ones. Albeit most likely for different reasons now.
When it was first announced that NDS were reneging on their promise of a faithful remake, and attempting to "improve" a classic game, I doubted they had the talent, experience and funds, to do so. Personally it was also not what I pledged for.
In the end - they couldn't deliver, and it cost the project a year and a half. When it could have been so simple to deliver this, instead they messed it up through hubris. Not to mention making the kickstarter look like they lied about it.
Now the project reaches the same point again, making "improvements". Only, this time I feel the changes are nothing to do with "cutting the fat" as you so put it, and everything to do with "we're running out of money, and backer patience, and need to cut down the effort involved"
Every gun, and every part, requires modelling, animating, special effects and sound effect work. By combining weapons, and removing the animations for activities such as chip implants (which is the only change from the original I'd expect to see in a "modern" game that's an immersive FPS) NDS is drastically cutting down the amount of work they have to do.
It is that reason alone that they are making these changes, and nothing to do with bettering the game, or making a faithful remake as promised. I could accept this if they were just honest about the reasons for it, and not coming out with BS that is so obviously BS. But hey - they've lied about every stage of this so far, so why change now....
"Personally, I don't see how cutting off some fat can't be considered an improvement. Do you really just want the same game with some visual enhancements?"
YES ! This is exactly just that I want and what I have backed for ! ;)
Ideas for Cyberspace:
@StarryKnight, I think it's safe to say that Jonathan (the audio guy) is a big fan of environmental audio and playing with how things sound in different environments. He's also mentioned they hope to use some live gun samples as part of the ingredients for some of the gun sounds. Stay tuned!
Money has a habit of swaying even the most honest of companies... I hope it doesn't happen, but I'd imagine that money must be tight by now and Epic can be most underhandedly persuasive. Remember Phoenix Point...
Then I also have a plea. It concerns your pre-alpha gameplay vid. I want it to be known that I am looking forward to this game like no other game currently in production (with the honorable exception of Cyberpunk 2077). But those low-level mutants. Would you please consider putting some sort of garment on them? I'm no prude, but the video had its fair share of naked mutant butt and I experienced it as detracting from the overall quality and fun of the gameplay.
I don't mind nudity in games, but I guess it's a matter in which aesthetics and quantity matters a great deal.
Love the look of these weapons. I hope they will have some great sound attached. Will you take into account the acoustic properties of the locale in which the weapons are discharged?
@tommyknocker001 Based on what evidence?
From what I can tell, Nightdive has released all of their games on both Steam and GOG, so what would make you believe they would go they route of being anti-consumer all the sudden?
I'm expecting this to be announced as an Epic Exclusive now...
@Insecticon, I agree with you when you say that cutting off some not really needed weapons is considered an improvement. It is an improvement indeed. For instance, what need would one have for the DC-04 Riot Gun, found on the Storage Level? Indeed, it is an improvement. And you're right.
But, in my opinion, we've already experienced massive frustration during the hiatus phase last year. That hiatus was caused by the huge feature creep, that resulted from NDS getting too many ideas for improving the original. They just didn't know when to stop improving the game and it ended up being...well...can't really find words for it.
I, for one, don't look forward to see improvements from NDS. I simply trust them to stick to the original and make it happen. But I no longer trust them to successfully do anything more than that.
hm. Maybe too little too late.
I'm not too thrilled about the weapons. The pistol looks like an alarm pistol and energy weapons should be noticeably different from ballistic ones. Think about ergonomics and imagine how the weapons would be built inside. Energy weapons would need capacitor banks, for instance and I would cover the coil with some semitransparent resin to shield it from the elements. The front hand grip could do with some serious mesh shielding to prevent accidentally electrocuting the user. That goes for the EMP cartridges as well. Having the poles exposed is a fatal accident begging for to happen. Try to ground you designs in just a bit of realism please.
Personally, I don't see how cutting off some fat can't be considered an improvement. Do you really just want the same game with some visual enhancements?
Sadly, I must agree with Tommynocker001. Despite him risking backlash from others that may or may not call him a "complainer", the man's got a very fair point. Myself, I've had enough of drawings and eternal promises.
As for the weapons list being shortened and having some weapons merged into other weapons...my message for NDS is: "We pledged for System Shock, not Shystemock." No matter how long we should wait (I for one am no longer interested in playing it anywhere near 2020, so I won't give out rants about the project taking too long), it should be the real thing. Not the corner-cutting direction I see developing. Let us take into account that this isn't a NEW game, but a REMAKE of an already EXISTING game. Best wishes.
@Shaun Gupta, the original DID have a shotgun-like weapon. Mark-3 Assault Rifle. Had either Magnesium or Penetrator shells.
Honestly, I think that weapon designs still need some polishing.
Mini-pistol is just too tiny; it doesn't look like something you could conceivably comfortably grab, but more like a child-sized toy gun. Usually, with smaller versions of normal-sized pistol, you have some sort of extension fitted to the magazine, like with Glock 30 - especially if this is thing isn't meant to be a concealable weapon. Also, the trigger guard seems to be too thick - again, more like a toy gun.
Magnum looks better, but its grip is tilted forward at rather awkward angle.
SK-27 shotgun's barrel looks too short. It looks longer (and better) in the angled view, though?
Also, (as already noted below) how come that none of the rifles have any sort of stock, even ballistic ones?
Skorpion's forward grip is an ergonomic nightmare. Imagine holding it with your hand - would you say that it's a comfortable position? Why do you think modern submachine guns' forward grips are either vertical, or tilted backwards?
Not everything has been showcased/revealed yet, but please keep in mind that does not mean it's not being worked on or isn't coming, and several things being asked about have been shown already in an early alpha form.
- Yes, cyberspace is still a thing, though the exact plans for it haven't been revealed yet.
- Rudimentary enemy AI for the mutant and SERV-BOT has been shown in a few videos now.
Yes, they do attack (including the SERV-BOT spinny attack from the old demo). Per dev streams, more advanced combat is planned.
- Upgrades are definitely still a thing, though we don't know yet what, if any, will be modified/streamlined as that hasn't been discussed publicly yet.
- Some prototype puzzles are in and shown in footage; the puzzles will be there.
- Simple switches are in and working (and also have been shown).
It's lucky I didn't ask any difficult questions! :)
Cyberspace was promised a year ago. Is cyberspace being cut for financial or time related reasons?
What sort of state is the enemy VI in? Clearly, monsters cannot navigate corridors that do not exist... Can it engage in simple combat? Will it be any kind of challenge in advanced combat?
Is cyberware still on the table? Bioscan and sensaround? Is any of that even a concept yet?
Are puzzles and puzzle elements being simplified? Do simple switches (like light switches) even work? Is any of this in game yet?...
A few points to raise:
As stated in this update, focus has been on fleshing out all of Medical, including gameplay systems, etc. The rest of the station is greyboxed and in some cases past that, but Medical is mostly shown so far as that's where most of the iteration to show has been.
Concept art and design documents are an important part of the process since that's what determines the final models. That said, this update contains a mix of game-ready or in-progress model assets as well as concept art; it's inaccurate to say it's only drawn art.
The dev streams, as well as Discord and here on KickStarter, do have a community back and forth, and all feedback is looked at, but the devs are the ones who decide on game content at the end of the day. When I said this has been discussed on the Twitch streams, I primarily meant discussed by the devs as they work on the game.
The demo was in a completely different engine, and there have been some big changes since then. It's true that not everything that was in the demo is yet in-alpha, but it's also true that a WHOLE lot more is done stationwide than was ever done for the Unity demo. One possible reason for this is that the roadmap for developing an entire game from start to finish looks significantly different than developing a closed vertical slice. Those things are coming along.
the weapons look pretty cool but why don't the shotgun and ion rifle have butt stocks? Right now they look like overgrown pistols. Not a fan of that look, but that's just me.
I could, possibly, buy some of that IF there were any kind of time scale and budget controls. The game has already been suspended because of fiscal mis-management. I was presented with the same images of the same corridor from multiple angles for almost a year. I've been peppered with drawn pictures of 'in game content' that has never even materialized.
I was then shown a video of parts of the original demo level that had less content then the original demo.
I'm now reliably informed that the level that was in the demo is not finished... parts are being cut due to money restraints and time? Members who remain nameless on twitch are deciding what content is going to be in game? Other paid backers were banned for asking difficult questions?
I'm going to take the 'nerf gun' idea as just a bad joke... I hope that is not another case of expensive tee shirts being brought! Although I'm now expecting to see some really expensive nerf guns being waved around in a future tweet... this feels like money (our money) is being wasted into someones vanity project.
We seem to have come full circle. There is visually NOTHING in this update except some hand drawn images and very few words. I ask, month after month for a proper update yet all I get told is to watch the streams or just shut up and wait?
Great update - excited by what I'm seeing! That shotgun looks really cool (and is something the original didn't have), and I can't wait to see the updated Groves in-engine - the concept art and space vistas idea is amazing! The other weapon concepts are looking good too!
Regarding weapons being dropped, it absolutely has been a topic of discussion for the last several months in the Twitch/YouTube dev streams as well as a bit on Discord. There are a LOT in the original, and some of them, while it's very cool that they're there (and we'll always have SS:EE), are pretty useless. I agree Nightdive should use care when reworking them, but I can understand why it makes sense to combine some of them. This is bound to be subjective, though. I'd just encourage people to try to be open-minded; I think as long as all the functions we know and love are there, from an inventory/interface point of view as well as resources that could be better used elsewhere than several additional weapon models, it makes sense. Just my opinion tho'.
That's a lot of weapons.
But for a 'faithful remake', you CAN'T neglect the story and puzzles aspect of it, like the original had. So it becomes more of an adventure, and less of a 'just shoot everything that moves' thing.
The original allowed you to set Story, Puzzles, and Combat seperately, to your preference, and THAT'S what made it so great. Some of us loved the story and puzzles, but didn't care for all the boring shooting. So please don't neglect this.
If you want to play the original with a graphical update, this isn't it.
I honestly don't mind them combining some of the weapons into more feature-rich ones.
To me it seems that it would make the weapons more unique rather than just having a load unmemorable ones.
I have to agree. After messing it up so badly to begin with, they are now cutting corners to get the game out the door. Reducing the amount of weapons, and homogenizing weapon parts...
Yup! It's still a faithful remake (as long as you ignore where they're not being faithful), and they're not at all scrambling to finish it.
If they did ask the community about this reduction of weapons, and they were honest about the reasons for it, then I have no problem with that. Of course, if that did happen then it was on discord, because I sure don't recall any such discussion happening here!
If they weren't honest then the funniest thing is how they try to justify the latter with some BS: "This will help ground the design with the game world. Tri-Optimum would be manufacturing these weapons and would have the goal to not only save money and production time"
I guess it's just a lucky coincidence that this 'logical real world reasoning' saves NDS "money and production time" too, by having to make less weapon models, animations, sound effects, and so, and so on.....
100% agree with tommyknocker001 and Dennis Schwartz :
• Energy weapons don't need "pump action" neither ammunitions. They rather be physically connected to the "battery" !
• Don't get loose again on the path of the "faithful remake". If the weapons are in the original, they have to be in the remake, and, I must add, with the same way of working... No "exotic" alternate mode or what so ever, THANKS A LOT !
On the other hand, these weapons are quite beautiful and I'm eager to put my (virtual) hands on them, keep up the good job Guys !
Not a big fan of an energy weapon like the Mag Pulse being pump-action. What could you possibly need to "chamber", physically, in a weapon like that? If you do this to have a certain delay between shots, I'd rather have some sorf of "charging hum".
I know, I know, nitpicking...
However, please implement the mouselook toggle, so that picking up items and interacting with the environment doesn't suck
thx for the update. despite your past troubles your progress now looks promising. of course there will always be the "professional" complainers...the plague of nowadays.
Looking forward to see these guns in action :)
"...With the help of the community we’ve condensed the original weapons list down to a smaller, more manageable amount and combined some of the omitted weapons’ firing modes and functions into the weapons we’ve decided to keep."
'Faithful remake' be damned! Let the corner cutting and content slashing commence!
Love the designs!