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erm wow - how sad is that comment from @Wyzak :/
and in any case no one would have staged any protest at duxford. it was a class event all over, met some great people meeting great people =)
Wyzak on November 20, 2014
"Has anybody thought about a form of protest at their premier event this weekend? It's easy to ignore people over the Internet, but not nearly that easy in person."
@Avalanche - the £90 box is actually *very* nice, it's probably the nicest cardboard box that I own :) The box opens up to reveal a paperback book and the silver drinks coaster (in its own special box) and a polo shirt below the lot, not the t-shirt that I was expecting. I don't wear polo shirts so that was a little extra dollop of disappointment added to my offline removal double-plus ungood feelings. There is a nice little metal Elite pin badge included as well, which wasn't expected. If it had been the DRM free offline thing I'd backed, I'd have been beside myself with joy. As it was, I looked at it for a bit, went "meh" and put it at the back of the airing cupboard with a few boardgames that don't get played any more.
Don't forget that the £90 includes the lifetime expansion, just not any of the DRM free offline stuff. Pity, that. Means the game comes with a built in life span (I don't think releasing server code etc will ever happen) but, you know, meh :)
For the lost offline mode, they could have put a RNG on the commodities markets and I would literally not be able to tell the difference between that and the current Solo online version I (occasionally) play. Something incredibly technical that they managed to do 20 years ago in a game that fit on a single floppy disk ;) Can't compromise that vision of a living, breathing galaxy though...
I'm with you regarding the background shenanigans of offline removal - that's not something that just crops up at the last minute. If your game is 'phoning home' for pretty much everything that happens then you've tied it into being online pretty deeply. They'd have had to make an offline server on the players computer. They obviously didn't want to do that, for good reasons. But why did they wait for so long and "announce" it like they did? Then they compounded it with the rigmarole regarding refunds. Silly.
unrelated news from evil plc hq
*edit: apologies to CMDR Sataris and FDEV that i post this link here. paid my respect elsewhere*
when reading comments like above i really do not understand what the few "offline" people that keep posting here are looking for?
if you then take into consideration a) the time passed b) offline backers got refunds c) refunded backers still have access to the game
@ Rene Lorentzen [ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ]
That was pretty much my take of things. I don't recall Frontier Development apologising at all for the way it played out. Instead, they dragged out the process for as long as they possibly could, before capitulating to any who were still persisting. Plus, it was their decision to do and they decided how to handled it. Without the backlash and the press reporting, they would have just kept all the money. Well, except those using the Chargeback Scheme.
[ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ]
The way it was included in Newsletter #49, many missed it. I only found out about the dropping of offline mode from a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article a little later. It hasn't surprised me to hear that many didn't find out about it for quite a while. I think the idea was that Frontier Developments hoped that it would just pass by quietly, what with the launch so close.
@ Michael Taylor [ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ]
"Offline removal means I cannot play" - "I have internet all the time so everyone else should have too. Also, you have posted on the forum so you must have internet all the time"
Oh, yeah, that one comes up so often. And the list of reasons why someone would not have reliable Internet access 100% of the time is given again and again and again. A fairly common one (of many):
"The only time I really get to play games is my commute to work by train." - "I heard that a train had wi-fi, so all trains have wi-fi. Also, not my fault you don't have time or where you work."
I didn't think specifically of being at sea, but one of the things about not having reliable Internet access 100% of the time, is that there are just *so* many reasons why one wouldn't have it. Also, just as detail, the above response can easily be adapted to being at sea: train --> ship; wi-fi --> satellite. They're really very flexible in being able to tell people why they don't actually have anything to complain about :o/
The £90 Collector Edition sounds horrible. From what I could make out, the £90 tier should have had an install disk [shiny round drinks coaster :o) ], a book (which you included) and a T-Shirt? Which for £90 sounds like a pretty poor Collector's Edition to me, but is that not even the way it worked out? What was the badge thing you mentioned? Although, judging by the only picture I could find, it seemed the book was a hardback, which would have at least been something, but the Reward said paperback, so somehow I have my doubts even there.
Yeah, it's a good point about DRM Free's prevalence being a factor. I did, so very long ago, make a post about just how many pledges included the DRM Free Reward. And... so... nope, no good, I'm going to have to find it :o)
5956 Backers and £887,585 included a DRM Free version as a Reward. Of course, not everyone was in it *just* for the DRM Free aspect, but... as you say, I'm sure it was a selling point for at least a fair number of people. Actually, you said the opposite, but used sarcasm tags, so... I'm not sure how to quote you there ;oP
I *do* like posts that include phrases like "...well I did a bit of testing a while ago..." :o) That's *really* interesting, thanks for that. Sooooo, my wonderings about what sort of time frame would be needed before a 'sync' was required ended up being... about a minute. Hmmm, I was way off with my wonderings. But then, that's the thing. As far as I'm aware, at the time, it wasn't specified, but the whole DRM Free aspect very much gave the impression that one would be able to be away from an internet connection for a fair amount of time. Whatever one might say about the offline mode, the DRM Free Reward was in no way fulfilled. Were they really working for those 22 months, thinking that they could find a solution, right up until one month before the launch date, when things were so tied to the servers.
I think that if they had cobbled together an offline mode, with a functioning money system (i.e. not really an economy), but good enough that people could have traded and bought new ships and upgraded them and shot at pirates and found new star systems and joined a faction and etc etc, then that was all that a lot of people wanted. Events, a fuller economy and the like might have been nice, but... really... I think the former things had far more in common with the ideas of the original Elites. Even if Frontier Developments had delayed offline mode, it would have been okay. Instead, they decided for us, but... I still do wonder, exactly how early that decision was made. Somehow, I think that is a key. I don't believe it was made just one month before release.
from todays DEV update by MB on QCQ and 1.4 beta:
The process for the beta is changing as well. The period of beta testing will extend to two weeks to gain more coverage. We will issue more builds during this phase, the number of which will depend on the issues encountered during the test.
We're also adding a stage of mass testing before releasing the update.
This will work in a similar fashion to the gamma phase before launch and will be available to all players to help stress test the game and the servers.
Like the beta, this will take place on the test servers and no progress will be carried over but the benefit is that all players get to practice their close Quarter Combat skills before the official release (where having ready honed skills may work in your favour).
gamma for all - excellent news and there is hope this will carry over to all future betas then =)
i don't want to belittle others bad experience with FDEV, specially the offliners that felt let down. FDEV apologised.
but it really comes down to that, personal experience. and mine has been excellent with FDEV going out of their way to accommodate/make happen my wishes as backer and elsewhere. and at times there was a bit of money involved, more than the cost of the game.
and from my perspective they are anything but a money grabbing evil cooperation. they are a small/medium sized game developer that has taken considerable risk (and not the short-cut to the publishers $$) to keep its independence and now have a fair shot of doing just that.
how many great game studios have been gobbled up, gutted and spat out by the real "evil" big players. EA anyone?
and you do not need to look at DB for too long to see that what he does is done out of burning passion for technology and its development. raspberry pie is VERY much the opposite of a money spinning quick way to untold riches. you think the engagement at BAFTA and the uni lecturing is done for profit?
to end on a positive, i want them to become better, too =)
While it is true that they folded in the end and refunded those backers who requested it, the whole process leading up to the refunds was a mess, and i think they handled it very badly. I am convinced that if they could get away with it, they would have denied all refunds.
I for one did not see the small notice about dropping the Offline mode until about 1 month after (i usually dont read the emails, and when i do i only check the headlines for interresting things), so i can understand if some missed it.
I personally didnt request a refund, since offline mode dont matter to me as i am always online, but the whole debacle did leave a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to FDEV, and just like Gearbox (due to the whole alien colonial marines), i would never buy anything from them again until they have shown that they are NOT an evil money hungry coorporation. I however dont want them to fail, but i want them to become better
- Refunds awarded
- Even to players who had racked up 10s, 100s, 1000s of minutes online _after_ the dropping of offline was announced
- Refunders can still access Frontier servers, login, and play Elite:Dangerous
- Refunders still received physical KS rewards
What I absolutely object to is the vendetta-like mentality of those upset by the offline decision, some of whom have stated that it is their aim to see Frontier/Braben/E:D fail, and have actively disseminated false information for many months, across teh intertubes towards this stated aim.
While i dont really want to be part of this fight i feel i need to comment on these few things:
>offline mode - FDEV said sorry about the way that played out and refunded
That was not really my experience. I thought i was more like this:
FDEV> We decided to cut offline mode for "reasons"
Few Backers> What the.... Then we would like a refund
Fdev> Nope.. you get nothing
Few Backers> well do chargeback from our creditcard and bitch about it
Fdev> Still Nope.. you gave us the money without us needing to give anything back
Few backers> wait... arent you located in the UK and subject to UK consumer laws ?
Fdev> ehhh..... Still nope...
Few backers> Then we will take legal action
Fdev> ok, ok, ok... you can get back the kickstarter retail value of the game, NOT your pledge amount
Few backers> Sends letter before action
Fdev> *sigh*.. Here take your damn money then.,.
> DRM-free - yeah sure is (was always clear that you need server side authorisation)
always online IS DRM. While i agree it's not an issue for me or most people, and the DRM part is basicly making sure that "your" account is not used in 2 places at once, it still IS DRM.
When will you tune in to SanityFM (...transmitting 24-7 on 84MHz)?
lol you are so funny. keep being that way and let no one tell you otherwise =)
offline mode - FDEV said sorry about the way that played out and refunded
DRM-free - yeah sure is (was always clear that you need server side authorisation)
Physical copy on DVD - well i have 2 copies on DVD, do you want one?
3D ship models - the standard 3d models are being painted and all backers of these models are aware of the stage they are at. one lady that pledged for the cut away 3d model of the 'conda has been offered a refund or a normal 'conda plus some exclusive in game content
ship to ship docking - where was that promised as launch content?
Passenger missions? - where was that promised as launch content?
Powers for DDF backers? - well as DDF backer i can only that i am happy. obviously some of my fellow DDFers see that different. but yeah, gullible is a word that comes to mind ^^
Finishing the PC game before porting to consoles? - the PC game will hopefully not reach a stage where it is finished for another 10 years at least
anything else? or just clinging on to the hope that anyone still thinks FDEV have done bad here?!
@deusx_ophc "everything FDEV offered to bring during the ks and after has happened as they called it. or did i miss something?"
Quit with the lies, DO.
Offline mode? Nope.
Physical copy on DVD? Nope.
Ships promised in the stretch goal? Nope.
3D ship models? Nope.
Ship-to-ship docking? Nope.
Passenger missions? Nope.
Powers for DDF backers? Nope.
Finishing the PC game before porting to consoles? Nope.
And that's just what you see from a skim of the complaints in the forums.
"it certainly wasn't part of the original game design"
I really can't understand this line of reasoning and find it quite Luddite in nature.
I wonder about people who insist things should stay as they were in the past.
Perhaps a lot of it is rose-tinted nostalgia?
Games and technology continually progress otherwise stagnation sets in. E:D is online, (actually always-online) and the feedback from the vast majority of players is that they really enjoy this aspect of the latest iteration of Elite: Many original '84ers love it because interacting with other, real pilots is exactly what they always wanted to do back in the day. Now that day is here, and yet some hanker for an always-offline mode.
Aside from all of this, CQC isn't even really part of the main game.
It's yet another aspect to an ever-expanding galaxy of features.
Some people will play it a lot (perhaps younger XBone owners - and PS4 owners when the time comes) some will dip in and not enjoy it. Great. That's life, and life includes all sorts of views, approaches and personalities. Now, you may argue that offline-types should also be catered for since life includes all types of people etc. The problem is, of course, that FDEV also need to make money to fund further development of the game. Whatever FDEV say about it being a creative decision, the bottom-line is that development of it (and the potential for backward-engineering of DRM source code) would have severely affected their bottom-line. Ultimately, this would have affected far more people who enjoy online and don't care about the always-online nature of the game. Ultimately, therefore, I see it as pretty selfish of offliners to whine and complain that always-offline mode never transpired, since it is almost certainly the case that the Frontier servers would have been switched off far sooner for the majority of their fan-base than if they had also spent precious time and funds developing a parallel development of an always-offline mode.
It's the needs of the many vs the needs of the few. It's as simple as that.
It doesn't matter how many people you state care passionately about offline mode, it is 100% certain to be the case that the number is nowhere near the 640,000 certified unit sales that E:D has made up to 25th June 2015. We can be _absolutely certain_ that the 440,000 people who bought the game since release day on 16th December 2014 bought the game fully expecting an always-online experience and that is what they got.
everything FDEV offered to bring during the ks and after has happened as they called it. or did i miss something?
there is a development plan, we just got CQC beta. the first season of updates has been good, the next season's beta is starting next months, that brings planetary landing.
have you seen any other game do what ED does currently? ED is way ahead of everyone, with rift support, ports to various platforms, live arena style combat and planetary landing becoming a reality before the year turns.
many other games devs would wish they could offer this ^^
and on a side note, i paid for a lifetime of free upgrades, very cheap at the time actually. and the game currently offers enough to easily hold my (albeit time limited) attention.
i fully expect to keep falling for it (Elite:Dangerous) for another 10 years!! oh bought some more paint packs in the sale, too.
@do - YoU GuLLibLe MaN- Everything FD was supposed to do is going to be done in "near future" or with the next "expansion/update/upgrade" just give them money! hahahhaha!
I can't believe you are still falling for it 3+ years later!
@Max Power - I'll not be touching CQC, multiplayer only space deathmatch using Elite assets holds no interest to me - it certainly wasn't part of the original game design and the idea even got dismissed by FDev back in the DDF, if I recall correctly. But, you know, money.
Unfortunately, looking at the direction the game has taken since release, all those 'placeholder' systems seem to be pretty much what we're going to be stuck with :( I'm not one of the eternal optimists (you know, beta is just a vertical slice, the content is coming at release, er, at 1.2, better make that 1.3, I mean .4, yeah, it's just placeholder, it's coming). For example, remember all the plans about the Grand Expedition that was going to set off to the galactic centre and it was going to be epic and dangerous and take months...and then it ended up taking about a week?
I fully expect to see Elite-io Kart mode once the Horizons expansion releases ;)
CQC is great fun! though it is a case of 'courses for horses' isn't it, had to be done for Xbox One with lots of trickle down already visible for ED proper.
with regards to the main game, the beta for the horizons expansion is is coming in the next few weeks, too.
and as you can see with this post https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php… there have also gong through a new pass for the BGS with the CQC update.
the missions overhaul is also on the near future agenda, next update afaik
but i am with you, staring hard into the general direction of cambridge can never be a bad thing!!!
*stares hard at FDEVs*
I'm sure Close Quarters will be fun, but is anyone else out here wishing that Frontier would finish the core game ?
I am heartily fed up of the Alpha grade menu system, mission system, and a trade system that only functions becasue 3rd party apps have been written to take the strain.
If we all stare hard in the general direction of Cambridge perhaps we can persuade Frontier to spend the next quarter filling in the gaps.
@harbinger ohhh, good call!
the meta of it all, it is nearly to much for me ^^
@Theta Sigma, Not referring to the price but the volume of shares traded:
The 2nd trade of the day had a volume of 1337 shares which has a special significance to a specific game franchise.
[*Buys and Sells are calculated on the difference between the trade price and the current mid price. As such, they can occasionally be incorrect.]
@deusx_ophc: Did you happen to notice how many shares were sold? 1337 ;)
doh i look silly now o.0
maybe the investors took my boasting as slighty too much in these rather difficult times
wow! i just noticed a 1000 shares being bought at GBP 2,05 -. that is a very significant increase for the latest traded price of 195,50 (28 shares lulz) - a very strong increase of 4,8% outperforming the global stock market!!! the dow reported −2,84% over the same time... *nudge nudge wink wink*
this must be the good news surrounding FDEV (EDH, ED CQC PC beta, Planet Coaster and i bet also the great sales of the latest IOS port). investors are clearing getting into the stock just before the news go public early next week!
i can see it all now ^^
ps: teh lulz - doing it for them
pps: @os - notice the share price remains at GPB 2,00? good, then take note pls and stop these very silly "stock market trader" comments =) i'd rather, too ^^
I think we're witnessing the final death-throes of an oldschool dinosaur, stop-motion, Ray Harryhausen-style %^]
what do you exactly mean when you say
"And already the latest ED update has a flood of bug reports coming in https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php… .
Will FD ever learn to test their code before releasing?? Does FD even know what testing is??"
os, can I just check that you _do_ understand the purpose of a beta release, don't you? %^]
Oh, hi there, os.
I've been expecting you %^]
Have you ever heard a death-rattle before?
Make the most of these last few days, as the clock ticks on, your blatant bias will look even more ludicrous than it usually does.
And already the latest ED update has a flood of bug reports coming in https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php… .
Will FD ever learn to test their code before releasing?? Does FD even know what testing is??
@Theta Sigma a.k.a. Frontier Devel;oplemts PR man
""They [FDEV shares] are back down to 195.50" Just plain, vanilla "Wrong".
Plain vanilla right. http://www.shareprice.com/lse/FDEV/ shows the last trade was at precisely that price. There have been no trades at the 200p you claim since Aug 11th.
Q. How have unit sales of Elite:Dangerous been doing since completion of Kickstarter on 4th January 2012?
Well, I'm so glad you asked %^]
That growth is certainly looking 'exponential'
8th September 2015 RNS most likely to be in the range 1,000,000 to 1,200,000 units:
FDEV data officially reported via RNS to London Stock Exchange
Optimisations - Game Engine improving with each update %^]
"kudos to the optimization team
just want to say that whoever is responsible for the performance optimizations, you've done a fantastic job!
i just checked out the 1.4 beta and all of the sudden, i can run this game with 4x DSR. that's 3840x2160. at 60fps, in stations and everywhere else (except where my cpu limits the performance). there seems to be a bug with SSAA though but i'm not sure. maybe it's just me but it doesn't look as smooth as i remember. SSAA runs a lot better though.
This [...and many unanimous CQC comments like it %^]
"it's amazing! i had to take a break after 30 minutes because of the awesome adrenaline rush :-) :-) :-)"
I've just been having a quick go in CQC. I'm an explorer at heart, but it was a blast and will suit the typical XBox player very well IMO.
Heh Heh... looks like the Elite Massive are already _loving_ CQC %^]
"CQC is stupendously fun"
"Grats FD, this is hilarious and fun as hell, Really bodes well with elite. "
"all the fun, beauty and feeling of flying in elite, but with no stress of losing your ship or insurance. Tons of action, lots of maneuverability and an even playing field. It's just nice."
"I'm not a fan of PvP, but this is fun indeed. Like it very much :-)"
PS ...before someone thinks of reporting my previous post to KS admins to get it deleted...
'FA Off' means 'Flight Assist Off' and is not meant to be disrespectful or inconsiderate in any way %^]
'First Play CQC Beta Elite Dangerous FA Off'
yup exactly, specially in the light of a few billions being wiped of various indices recently. a good little burner* just like that game ^^
*somehow rhymes with earner *getting my coat**
and another info post. change log for QCQ beta dropped by FDEV today (after a monday bank holiday - you are freaking awesome)
this is beyond most studios i'd wager
"They [FDEV shares] are back down to 195.50"
Just plain, vanilla "Wrong" %^]
Looks as though (i.e. it is _definitely_ the case :) that FDEV SP is currently 200p and has been since it precipitously fell 0.7% all the way from 201.5p on 11th August.
Basically, rock-steady, constant SP @200p for the past 20 days.
London Stock Exchange
ahh thank you for the timely reminder. going to plunge into FDEV then ^^ let's see if anyone wants to meet me at my valuation =)
*waves at os & his buddy*
Many thanks for the info and .
Incidentally, do you agree with @os' report of the alleged do in FDEV SP?
I'm pretty certain it has remained constant @200p
Can you independently confirm, please?
and now for something completely different:
Public Service Broadcast - The Other Side - #theraceforspace
and lest we forget:
lanetary landings are coming to Elite:Dangerous in the next season of updates.
trailer, pre-order (including the value for money LIFETIME EXPANSION PASS at GBP 130,00) can be found here https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/horizons
looking at the recent trades. some monkey is holding a puny amount of shares, trying to play on FDEVs for gullible people.
28 shares sold at 195,50 after 2 buying trades upping towards 200,00 - well someone is seriously play a a mug's game there ^^
onwards & upwards as always
if you are passing by here on the off chance that you have missed the ks, use this as your main news section for Elite:Dangerous or just like the friendly & welcoming community around here...
...have a look at this http://coriolis.io/ it is an excellent ship configurator for Elite:Dangerous - made by and for the unsurpassed elite communiyt over at https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php…
a bit like http://www.porsche.com/germany/modelstart/ just a LOT more fun ^^