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Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
25,681 backers pledged £1,578,316 to help bring this project to life.

Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!

    1. Creator Avalanche 2 minutes ago

      @ Michael Taylor

      As someone who I'm almost certain would be considered an "offliner"* I think I very much get what you're saying and for what's it worth, I sympathise. Curiously though, I was struck by "the lack of a functional pause button" and am thinking back to so, so many things [which I'll spare you :o) ], both here and with regard to issues I have with always online. I'm suddenly thinking how big of a deal that really is.

      Pressing "Esc" or "Space" to pause a game is just so standard for me, that having a game that *didn't* have that is just... something that I'm really surprised I've not been thinking/talking about more.

      I'm really curious, when you say "functional", what does that mean? Is there kind of a Pause function or...?

      * I quote that as someone who has never heard that before. I've not been following the Forums, so I don't know, but I'm guessing that being an 'offliner' is a thing and a shorthand for... well... someone like me :o)

    2. Creator Michael Taylor about 1 hour ago

      Backer #2764 here - I backed the project on the promise of offline DRM-free singleplayer, but with the intention of trying out singleplayer online. The first game I ever purchased was Elite for the Acorn Electron, when I bought my first PC the first game I got was Frontier, so to say I was looking forward to this game would be a slight understatement. I stumped up £105 in total, the extra £15 on my £90 pledge once Beta started so I could try it out on the new PC I'd put together mainly to play ED on my new 50" 3DTV (I figured if it played well in 3D then I'd be set for a VR headset once they came out).

      I've pretty much given up on the game since the not-announcement hint that offline was being dropped due to it not matching the "vision". I've tried it a couple of times after each "free content update" (or as I like to call them, "patches") but the game still doesn't match the ideas presented in the Kickstarter and the early forums (to me, at least). I'll probably try it again in another year or so, see if the expansions come out, but the whole thing has been soured for me by the actions of FDev and the behaviour those who defend their actions, especially with regards to refunds.

      I gave up on the official forums when I saw how they managed the whole debacle (delete or hide) and how the community behaved towards "offliners".

      Sometimes the attitudes I see look like, "Brilliant! Don't be negative, it's all super good, the server switch off is years away, everything is awesome! Yay! £4 ship skins!"

      I'm glad people enjoy the game, I quite enjoyed it (though the lack of a functional pause button turned out to kill it for me) and I hope I'll get some enjoyment in the future (but I won't be shocked if the expansions get the "offline" treatment).

      Unfortunately, when I think of Elite Dangerous, it's not the fun combat or the wonderful space vistas, it's how FDevs treat their customers.

    3. Creator Avalanche about 2 hours ago

      @ Fabio Capela

      Actual answer:

      No idea :o)

      Speculative answer :o), based on my own wonderings/possibilities, hoping that it wont inflame anything:

      It *may* be that some people have heard/think that we're bashing the game, rather than the issues with David Braben and Frontier Developments?* I don't think it's a coincidence that a half dozen people have shown up in the past couple of days (which is fine as far as I'm concerned). *Maybe* more recent focus here of Metacritic and the like being a factor?* It may make no difference, but it may be that people haven't been following *here* since November of last year and aren't nearly so aware that the issues here were due to all the things that we've been over many, many times before** and think we're all just trying to trash the game itself.

      As is *always* the way with Kickstarter, reading back through the Comments is a nightmare, so I don't think people do it. That, and there are a lot of Comments. I think some people just want to support the game.

      * rhetorical :o)
      ** for those who aren't sure what I mean - offline removed, DRM removed, refunds refused, backlash, Frontier Developments' stalling, relenting but only offering partial refunds in some cases, some accepting but more backlash, more stalling, excuses, delays, more excuses, issue of Letters Before Action, total capitulation from Frontier Developments, total refunds for many people still posting here.

    4. Creator Fabio Capela about 3 hours ago

      What's it with backers coming out of the woodworks in rapid succession, months after the game was released, to defend it? Is someone organizing some kind of campaign?

    5. Creator Matt Dobson about 4 hours ago

      I'm loving the game. It just keeps getting better and better. Just got back from my first expedition deep into uninhabited space. I only went a couple of thousand light years in my stripped down Cobra, but it felt like I was a true pioneer. Thanks for making it happen, Frontier!

    6. Creator Morten Kjærgaard Tellefsen about 8 hours ago

      Thank you for creating a great game. I love it and have put loads of hours into it already. I really enjoy the newsletters, that tells the story of the ongoing development. I keep inviting more friends to the game and look forward to buying a Rift, when the consumer version hits the stores. I hope to keep playing for years to come. :)

    7. Creator Wyzak about 9 hours ago

      @Theta Sigma - you failed to answer the one question that I put to you.

      "The other questions in this post are mostly rhetorical, so you can answer them if you feel like or disagree with me, but here is the one that I would most want an answer to (and without an answer to this question there is really no further point in discussing this)...
      Can you state the following with absolute certainty (to the best of your knowledge) and with God (or your deity of choice or lack thereof) as your witness:
      1) Neither I, nor a close family member are employees of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      2) Neither I, nor a close family member are shareholders of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      3) Neither I, nor a close family member hold futures of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      4) Neither I, nor a close family member stand to lose or gain financially (significantly or insignificantly) whether Frontier succeeds or fails, or whether Elite Dangerous is a success or failure?
      To Theta Sigma, and anybody else, please feel free to add to this list, if you think that there is a grey area or something that I missed."

      Without an answer to this question to establish your objectivity or subjectivity there really isn't any point in discussing anything else.

    8. Creator Theta Sigma 1 day ago

      @Wyzak

      Thanks for your comments, but I'm going to stay with Metacritic for the time being, as per my previous post, since it's something that you've been extremely vocal about in the recent past.

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "So it just happens that you chose the sweet spot after the thirteen 7s and before the two 0s for your top 15 average from metacritic? Yet if you even just add 5 more it drops to 6.4 add another five and it drops to 5.5."

      ...and yet, now when we look at the average of the Most Helpful that you drew attention to above, the results are as follows:

      Top15 7.1
      Top20 7.5
      Top25 7.4

      It is so very telling that now I turn to address the Top300 *in its entirety* (...and give you a possible reason for this being 'Steam' release) that you try to squirm your out of accepting these objective facts and now instead sidetrack and bluster by casting aspersion on Metacritic's review system - I'm simply focusing on Metacritic since it previously was so very important to you (personally, I think Steam reviews are a far better guide [78% positive, incidentally, from 1,557 reviews]

      In addition, you attempt to deflect focus from the above, by questioning in turn on what was a very simple question:

      Theta Sigma: "Do you now agree that the average of the 'Most Helpful' reviews (up to the Top300 and wherever you 'choose' the cut-off within this) is now a *higher* average than the *overall* user average?"

      Wyzak: "I am not sure what you mean with a *higher* average."

      I mean, quite simply:
      The average user review score from the 1st down to Top300 'Most Helpful' reviews (i.e. by definition the reviews that users found most 'Helpful') is *higher* than the 'Overall User Average' from *all* Metacritic user reviews.

      Do the following words sound familiar to you?
      (they should - perhaps you were predicting your own future actions?)

      "I'm not worried about how metacritic calculate their scores in the least. I'm just pointing out how you say one thing on one day and a completely different thing the next day when it suits you."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Do remember, you have previously spent a lot of your time:

      1. repeatedly citing Metacritic in these comments (over many months) as 'evidence' that E:D is somehow failing "

      "Those very same people will now crush the scored of E:D on all public forums and the net result will be a metacritic user rating of 5"

      Another incorrect prediction: That was six months ago, and the Metacritic user average has now stabilised at 6.6 for at least the past month. Do you have any new (amended) predictions? ;-)
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      2. disingenuously posting your 'analysis' (i can spredsheeetz! yay!) to Reddit in the vain hopes of drumming up support for your spurious "Is Frontier doctoring the metacritic results? Decide for yourself" conspiracy theory.
      [26 comments 0 upvotes]

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2prujm/is_frontier_doctoring_the_metacritic_results_with/

      Lets go back to your previous 'correction'
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "@Theta Sigma Just a correction on your advertisement.

      Metacritic:
      Top15 'Most Helpful' User Reviews Average: 7.1 (actually 7.3)
      However Top20 'Most Helpful' User Reviews Average: 6.4
      Top25 'Most Helpful' User Reviews Average: 5.5
      Top50 'Most Helpful' User Reviews Average: 4.3
      Top100 'Most Helpful' User Reviews Average: 4.0

      Please do compare the above with the averages of the Top### 'Most Helpful' reviews as they stand today:

      Top10 7.0
      Top15 7.1
      Top20 7.5
      Top25 7.4
      Top50 7.0
      Top100 7.3
      Top150 7.2
      Top200 7.5
      Top250 7.8
      Top300 7.6

      I suppose you'll now say that I've 'cherry-picked' by "missing out" the average user review score of Top[insert number here] reviews.

      However, if you do your own analysis you'll see that *all* [Top x] where x < = 300 of 'Most Helpful' yield averages which are all greater than or equal to the overall 'User Average of 6.6'

      Do remember, also, that after the Top 300 'Most Helpful' we fall into 50/50 territory and below, so the reviews are by definition no longer classed as 'Helpful' by the majority of users expressing an opinion on the review.

      PS

      "Yet you are now refusing to reply to our counters, even though you have acknowledged that owe us answers."

      Incorrect. I've stated clearly that I *may* trawl back through your comments - in addition, I've stated that I've already discussed and answered many (most) of the 'questions' with other posters - Also, I 'owe' you nothing (is that refund-entitlement kicking in again?) where are you getting this 'everyone owes you something' mentality from? Hey, if you're so interested in answers to questions which you think haven't been answered why don't you do the work and highlight the questions that you feel haven't been answered? ;-)

      "obviously the score will be higher as the Steam version only launched on v1.2 which had a considerable amount of bug-fixes and new features which weren't present in the non-Steam version of the game at the time that most people would have posted their reviews."

      "Obviously" - E:D has *always* been marketed as an evolving game, right from the Kickstarter inception - Kickstarter backers giving poor reviews therefore were most likely to be refunders.
      I suppose at least you agree that the latest versions are improving still further.

      Also, here's an alternative suggestion for you:
      Now that the (majority of) refunders have got bored with their vendetta, the completely ridiculous zero-bombing has ceased and the Metacritic score is tending back towards the general consensus (which is, naturally, that E:D is a great game worthy of at least a 7 or 8: as the average of 52 Critic Reviews *always* attested to)

    9. Creator Fabio Capela 1 day ago

      While in the subject of the boxed copies, I got one.

      But from the start I explicitly told them to *not* send a boxed copy to me, since there was a good chance it would be taxed (import taxes here can double the price of imported physical goods), and I never paid for the shipping anyway. In other words, the copy I received should never have even been sent regardless of the mess with the refunds.

      (Thankfully it slipped by through customs without being taxed. If I had to pay anything extra due to their disorganization I would be far less forgiving.)

    10. Creator Wyzak 1 day ago

      Excuse the double post.

      @Robin Turner - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      "Amazing that there are still people complaining about the lack of offline mode. OK, Frontier promised offline mode when the kickstarter launched. They couldn't do it. They apologised and gave people their money back. Get over it"

      I love how you make it sound like Frontier just gave unconditional refunds for all the customers who asked for it after offline mode was dropped. The reality however couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is that Frontier did everything imaginable to refuse refunds to those very same people, and only once lawyers started getting involved did they start giving out refunds, even then only on a case by case basis after stalling for nearly 4 months.

      @Antony Oldham [Founder] - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      "Loving the game, ignore the haters and the idiots still here after receiving refunds! Some people will always moan and keep on moaning!!!"

      Feel free to step into the debate ring at any point - it would be great to hear some other opinions on the topics discussed here on a daily/weekly basis. Or you know you could just troll post and run...

      @james woodcock - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      I am glad that you are enjoying the game, many people are - myself included. But part of the reason I feel so strongly about offline mode is because I want to still be able to enjoy the game 30 years from now, but unfortunately that won't be possible. Thank you for posting a decent post without insulting us and then running away.

      I have to agree with Avalanche though, it will be very hard / near impossible for me to ever trust David Braben again after this. If they actually got real and cleaned up their act there may still be hope, but so far it looks like they are just pretending we don't exist and doing whatever pleases them without thinking for 2 seconds about the possible repercussions of their actions.

    11. Creator Wyzak 1 day ago

      @Theta Sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "Anyone checking the history of these comments can verify that I have answered dozens of questions presented to me by multiple posters. In addition, the questions that you say I have not answered (and have repeatedly asked me) have, in the majority, already been answered by me in discussion with others."

      And as pointed out previously, it's not a simple, question, statement situation. You make a statement, I contradict it with a counter, the next logical step is another contradiction from you, or alternatively you have to concede the point. That is how a debate works. Yet you are now refusing to reply to our counters, even though you have acknowledged that owe us answers.

      "Regardless of all of the above points, *even if* I had answered *none* of the questions (which, remember, is not the case) does not automatically define me as a 'troll' as you assert - it is quite simply the case that I am one of the only supporters of E:D on here (by your own admission) who bothers to post here, and this inevitably leads to a large number of people with opposing views focusing on asking me questions."

      I could understand that, if you were forthcoming with answers, but when was the last time that you answered any of those outstanding questions from anybody? (rhetorical)

      "There are around 10 to 15 regular posters here who are in opposition to E:D. As I stated previously, if I get round to it I *might* go back through *all* of your comments/questions and individually answer each question (with a reference to where I suggest it has also been answered previously by me) but to be quite honest, you probably won't like, and/or won't agree with my responses, and so it is likely that little, if anything, will be achieved by my doing so."

      It has little to do with whether I will agree or like the responses, but more to do with filling the logic holes in your arguments. If you can provide decent logical answers for those holes without creating new holes I will accept that.

      "Furthermore, the repeated implication that you have some authority to repeatedly ask me to spend my time completing this task you have set me is absurd.
      If someone feels they have amply answered a question you may ask that they answer it again (and again) but no-response !=> 'troll' "

      Intentionally avoiding the questions (while still posting on here), to me shows that you simply posted the answer to incite - which is one of the distinguishing features of a troll.

      "It is somewhat interesting that you seem so doggedly interested in my responses.
      One further thing to bear in mind is the gish-gallop approach you employ of asking multiple questions per post is unhelpful and might, in itself, be considered 'troll-like' behaviour: It is (as I'm sure you're aware) a well-known technique to divert attention away from other issues - issues, such as your repeated insistence that I 'cherry-pick' data, and yet, since Steam release you seem to have fallen utterly silent on the average of the Metacritic 'Most Helpful' reviews..."

      Why are you surpised that I am doggedly interested in your responses? (rhetorical) You leave holes in your argument, and you have yourself said that you are the only person posting from your camp. So in who'se posts should I be doggedly interested instead? It is proper forum etiquette to post a large post, instead of multiple consecutive small posts. If you actually answer the questions put to you, the size of the posts will shrink, but because you are constantly ignoring them it is continually growing into these massive posts.

      "Previously, you felt you had called-me-out for having cherry-picked to "only" average the Top15 Most Helpful reviews. "

      As mentioned previously, you chose the sweet spot that's higher than top 10, and higher than top 20. Why did you choose the arbitrary top 15? Surely top 10 or top 20 are more standard? I'll tell you why - Cherry-picking.

      "Since the Steam release and the additional ~80K purchases, however, anything up to the average of the Top300 Most Helpful now shows an average which is, *in all cases higher* than the overall user average of 6.6"

      As mentioned previously (if you had bothered to read) obviously the score will be higher as the Steam version only launched on v1.2 which had a considerable amount of bug-fixes and new features which weren't present in the non-Steam version of the game at the time that most people would have posted their reviews.

      "This, therefore, is my only question to you in this post.
      Do you now agree that the average of the 'Most Helpful' reviews (up to the Top300 and wherever you 'choose' the cut-off within this) is now a *higher* average than the *overall* user average?"

      I am not sure what you mean with a *higher* average. If you meant more accurate relative to the real score than the entire group, then yes that could be reasonable statement. However since the like/dislike system is also vulnerable to abuse it could also be used to highlight a specific result.

      The other questions in this post are mostly rhetorical, so you can answer them if you feel like or disagree with me, but here is the one that I would most want an answer to (and without an answer to this question there is really no further point in discussing this)...

      Can you state the following with absolute certainty (to the best of your knowledge) and with God (or your deity of choice or lack thereof) as your witness:
      1) Neither I, nor a close family member are employees of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      2) Neither I, nor a close family member are shareholders of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      3) Neither I, nor a close family member hold futures of Frontier or any company directly or indirectly involved with Elite Dangerous.
      4) Neither I, nor a close family member stand to lose or gain financially (significantly or insignificantly) whether Frontier succeeds or fails, or whether Elite Dangerous is a success or failure?

      To Theta Sigma, and anybody else, please feel free to add to this list, if you think that there is a grey area or something that I missed.

    12. Creator Avalanche 2 days ago

      I must say though, that it's jolly cosy here for a Sunday :o) Normally it's so quite over the weekend. I wonder if that's due to the Bank Holiday.

    13. Creator Avalanche 2 days ago

      @ Antony Oldham

      I've presented many arguments over the months, some of my more recent are here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… , just an hour before you posted.

      You went with:

      'ignore the haters', 'idiots', 'moan' and 'moaners'

      Who are you even talking to, or trying to convince?

      @ james woodcock

      These things do indeed happen, when companies decide to break promises/contracts and not only do some people fail to hold such companies accountable, but actively defend them and their practices. It's good that you're enjoying the game, but Frontier Developments actions and behaviour are still all the things that some of us here have been saying over the months. If you are happy to rely on the game continuing (as it's the only way you'll be able to keep playing), then I'm fine with that. If you have faith in David Braben, then that is of course your decision/view. Personally, I'll never trust him again.

    14. Creator james woodcock 2 days ago

      Could not agree more with the people who are enjoying the game. Not being able to bring the offline play into the game is a shame but these things and a lot worse happen in game development. The game that has made it to market is truly excellent and im pretty sure will have a long future.

    15. Creator Antony Oldham [Founder] 2 days ago

      Loving the game, ignore the haters and the idiots still here after receiving refunds! Some people will always moan and keep on moaning!!!

    16. Creator Avalanche 2 days ago

      @ Robin Turner

      Agreed that they promised offline mode. But it's not that they couldn't include it, they *decided* not to include it for creative reasons. Also, more excuses than an apology (technically always an MMO, piracy a factor, etc) , as illustrated by their actual refusal to give back money until, in some cases, threatened with legal action. If you say "Get over it..." then why did you post here? It's fine if you're enjoying it, but 99%? And what about the people who don't have a *reliable* connection, or don't always have access to it, or don't control it, or don't have a connection at all, etc?

      Not sure if many here are complaining really, since we pretty much all have our money back, but it's no surprise that we're still here. Shooting the breeze for one thing, but also replying to people who misrepresent what really happened. The stuff I said above is all stuff we've been over many times here, but there it is again.

      But also, a fair number of us answer questions from other Backers, since Frontier Developments abandoned this place long ago, when they refused to answer questions about their decisions.

      *I* would say that I'm amazed that after all this time, people still come here and try to defend the indefensible, but actually, I'm not at all surprised.

      @ Richard Walker

      Quite a lot of people are. I still think it went live far too early, but yeah, many seem to be having a good time with it.

    17. Creator Richard Walker 2 days ago

      Well I'm happily enjoying the game :)

    18. Creator Robin Turner 2 days ago

      Amazing that there are still people complaining about the lack of offline mode. OK, Frontier promised offline mode when the kickstarter launched. They couldn't do it. They apologised and gave people their money back. Get over it - it's still a great game for the 99% of computer owners who also have an Internet connection.

      FWIW, I thought backing ED was the best ROI I've ever had from a game.

    19. Creator Avalanche 3 days ago

      @ cs

      I thought as much - on both counts. Appreciate you fixing it though, even more so with all the hecticness*. Still very useful to have it, I feel.

      * what? That's a word :o)

      @ Scott Reynolds ( from https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… )

      All 2 credits worth are worthwhile in my opinion.

      I would say that having made their way through the initial (and then persistent) backlash, Frontier Developments don't talk about offline mode anymore? I could be wrong about that. My feeling though is that they've been making an online only game for quite a while and they didn't relent with all the pressure starting in November. With that pressure all but gone, I can't see them changing anything in the future.

      I would be interested to know what would happen if people asked about any news, or for an update, in the Elite: Dangerous Forums. Maybe some still do or have done.

      @ Jörn Huxhorn

      Creatively :o)

    20. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Wyzak

      Anyone checking the history of these comments can verify that I have answered dozens of questions presented to me by multiple posters. In addition, the questions that you say I have not answered (and have repeatedly asked me) have, in the majority, already been answered by me in discussion with others.

      Regardless of all of the above points, *even if* I had answered *none* of the questions (which, remember, is not the case) does not automatically define me as a 'troll' as you assert - it is quite simply the case that I am one of the only supporters of E:D on here (by your own admission) who bothers to post here, and this inevitably leads to a large number of people with opposing views focusing on asking me questions.

      There are around 10 to 15 regular posters here who are in opposition to E:D. As I stated previously, if I get round to it I *might* go back through *all* of your comments/questions and individually answer each question (with a reference to where I suggest it has also been answered previously by me) but to be quite honest, you probably won't like, and/or won't agree with my responses, and so it is likely that little, if anything, will be achieved by my doing so.
      Furthermore, the repeated implication that you have some authority to repeatedly ask me to spend my time completing this task you have set me is absurd.
      If someone feels they have amply answered a question you may ask that they answer it again (and again) but no-response !=> 'troll'
      It is somewhat interesting that you seem so doggedly interested in my responses.

      One further thing to bear in mind is the gish-gallop approach you employ of asking multiple questions per post is unhelpful and might, in itself, be considered 'troll-like' behaviour: It is (as I'm sure you're aware) a well-known technique to divert attention away from other issues - issues, such as your repeated insistence that I 'cherry-pick' data, and yet, since Steam release you seem to have fallen utterly silent on the average of the Metacritic 'Most Helpful' reviews...

      Previously, you felt you had called-me-out for having cherry-picked to "only" average the Top15 Most Helpful reviews.
      Since the Steam release and the additional ~80K purchases, however, anything up to the average of the Top300 Most Helpful now shows an average which is, *in all cases higher* than the overall user average of 6.6

      This, therefore, is my only question to you in this post.

      Do you now agree that the average of the 'Most Helpful' reviews (up to the Top300 and wherever you 'choose' the cut-off within this) is now a *higher* average than the *overall* user average?

      NOTE: after the Top300 reviews, the ratio of 'helpful' to 'unhelpful' ratings falls below 0.5 and so by definition, any reviews further down than the Top300 are not rated as 'helpful' on average by the community.

      If you are seriously and sensibly interested in taking this discussion further, I would politely suggest that in order to prevent further question-backlog that you also stick to one question (and/or answer) per post.

      Cheers.

    21. Creator Jörn Huxhorn 3 days ago

      @Wyzak
      Since I also received my backer premium box after a full refund (see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ) it makes me wonder how "official" my refund actually is. I wouldn't be surprised if my account is also still working.

      I suspect they gave me the money to prevent legal action while still counting me as a sold copy. I'd be really interested how they are accounting that money.

    22. Creator Wyzak 3 days ago

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "Ultimately, I suppose it's unsurprising that you deliberately misrepresented the post of Jedra's that you quoted, since you have made it very clear on here that your perception of reality seems to be quite different to mine, Jedra's and the vast majority of E:D backers, players and new purchasers."

      Agree to disagree then. Although Jedra obviously wasn't in our camp by his own admission, that hardly makes him a blind loyalist to everything FD does like you. I guess the only person that can really clarify Jedra's position is Jedra himself. It would have been interesting to know what his stance would have been had he known about the offline mode.

      Ah yes, Theta Sigma speaking for the deathly silent masses once more... Even Jedra hasn't posted here since the 24th of March.

      Meanwhile on the Steam charts, it's not looking good - still losing momentum.

      Still no news on the Steam keys - 4 weeks have now passed.

      Super-cruise lag issue still not fixed - 4 months and counting.

      My bug reports with videos - still unanswered.

      Newsletter 73 has come and gone - still no mention of the Steam release.

      But to borrow a phrase from the Steam group waiting to hear if the kickstarter backers will be given Steam keys: But hey, have you seen powerplay? It has drones!

      You weren't being called a troll for having an opposing opinion. You were being called a troll for repeatedly not answering questions directly asked at you, while continuing posting otherwise and clearly being aware of the missing answers.

      "...well, as you can see, I haven't disappeared - two months later - not exactly 'troll hit-and-run' tactics as suggested by Wyzak on April 4"

      Good for you. But you still haven't answered the questions. And you keep saying that you have and we are just going around in circles but that's not true as we expose holes in your argument and ask for comment, only to be ignored... See above.

      "The fact that I'm one of the only supporters who bothers to post here any more seems to be interpreted as troll-like behaviour"

      Again, that is not true. See above.

      "Have you ever wondered why other supporters no longer bother to post?
      Could it be because the atmosphere here has become toxic and virtually any opposing view is immediately ridiculed/rubbished or asserted to be shill-like, troll-like, or the favourite: fan-boy behaviour?"

      That is one possibility. The other possibility is that they don't have any vested interests in the game and have already moved on to something else as the only independently verifiable figures show (Steam)

      "deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response"

      Theta Sigma - personified. Also see what Joern wrote to you "You just decided it would be much more fun to willfully misrepresent my statement and ignore any information that doesn't suite your "interpretation"."

      "It's also just surpassed half a million total sales across all platforms." and "Do remember, though, that there are now half a million+ purchasers of E:D who either haven't heard, or haven't listened to your diatribes - I think you vastly overestimate your reach and influence within the gaming community."

      According to FDEV, and we've already shown that their word does not mean much. Let's not forget here that FDEV have never disclosed to the shareholders how many refunds they've had to issue, or even that they've had to issue any. It's reasonable to assume this figure runs into the hundreds, maybe even thousands. As a shareholder myself in various companies I would not appreciate the withholding of information.

      ""How much money again do you have invested in Elite? Just $100?"
      £100 (as previously stated)
      £100 != $100
      $100 > $100"

      Misconstrued again. He most certainly did not mean your kickstarter backing alone.

      "Presuming that you actually meant 'liar', would you care to highlight any comments I have made that are definitive, objective, provable 'lies' ?"

      That has been done repeatedly. We have shown numerous times how you misconstrue statements and cherry-pick results. I'm sure if you read through all of our posts you will find more examples.

      @Fabio Capela "My guess is that Frontier grossly underestimated the demand for Steam keys, and didn't even start negotiating with Valve to provide them until after the game's Steam launch."

      FDEV's lack of foresight have been one of the repeating themes of the E:D launch. That along with bad PR and non-existant customer support.

      To prove my point, here's an excerpt from one of the backers on the EDRG:
      "Hey everyone,

      Funny thing happened to me about a week ago. Like many of you I requested a refund, and after threatening with court action I finally got a full refund in February. So, end of story you would think, right? Apparently not. One day I came home to find the boxed copy of Elite: Dangerous in my mail...

      So, after all this fuss, and after they have actually payed me all my money back, they still can't keep track of who should have the game or not? This company still manages to surprise me.

      Only question now is what I should do with my copy? I'm not going to pay to have it sent back, that's for sure.

      Anyways, this amused me greatly, and just thought I would share."

      Welcome to the party Scott Reynolds.

    23. Creator Scott Reynolds 6 days ago

      I played the original Elite games, all three, as a kid. It was my favorite game of all time. I watched for years as David Braben talked about Elite 4.0 and his desires to expand everything and make it an MMO. Personally I don't play MMOs much and was never excited about an MMO version of Elite. But when I found this project and that DB promised a DRM FREE OFFLINE version of the game, I was quite excited and willing to participate! I contributed enough to be able to participate in the Premium Beta. Yea, it was online only, but the OFFLINE version was still being promised to be delivered after official release, which I was OK with. I was very happy to participate in the online beta program with the idea of eventually getting "my copy" of the DRM FREE OFFLINE version of the game. SO, when FD announced right before official release, something to the effect of "opps, sorry, but what we promised, we aren't going to do," I was pissed as hell! And then to follow it up by saying they would only refund money to those who hadn't already played the game yet?!! FDEV became a "4 letter word" in my book, and now I don't trust a thing they say.

      That being said, I still play the game online. I love the Elite series of the game. I play Elite: Dangerous as often as I can as time permits, considering full time work and a family. I hope FDEV is wildly successful with the game as I do want to see it, the game, succeed. However, I am still pissed as hell at them for what they did, and will remain so until they deliver a DRM FREE OFFLINE version of the game. It isn't as if they cannot do it as the way the game is built, everything is already there. So, I am still holding out hoping they will come to their senses and deliver what they said they would, or at least a fully playable "demo" version of the game.

      Just my 2 credits worth.

    24. Creator cs 7 days ago

      @Avalanche ks was glitched ... fixed. Yes, life got really hectic.

    25. Creator Jörn Huxhorn 7 days ago

      Frontier Developments did it. I'm at a loss for words. Hanlon's razor.

      http://imgur.com/5zr6FFe

      In an ideal world this wouldn't have happened.

    26. Creator Fabio Capela on April 28

      @Theta Sigma
      Too early to tell what it means. Allowing the accounts to be linked can be used to provide Steam keys, but can also be used just for cross-site login and other Steam-related features. Steam is more than just a game store.

      My guess is that Frontier grossly underestimated the demand for Steam keys, and didn't even start negotiating with Valve to provide them until after the game's Steam launch. To make up for the delay they are getting parts of the infra-structure needed to provide the keys, the ones that don't require a payment to Valve, in shape so they can proceed quickly when, or if, they seal a deal to provide the keys.

      It might also be that Valve made them an offer for taking care of the patch distribution process that was advantageous for Frontier. A few of the games I backed, games that have promised a non-Steam DRM-free version of the final product but didn't actually promise a Steam version, have chosen to provide a Steam key to backers (at least during Beta) because it was cheaper than directly paying for the servers and data to send patches to the players. It's an interesting thing, that you can issue Steam keys even for a game that isn't sold on Steam itself, and that this might be cheaper than directly providing the install and patch files.

    27. Creator Theta Sigma on April 27

      Comments (125,125)

    28. Creator Theta Sigma on April 27

      @Fabio Capela

      What are your thoughts on the (Frontier) development?

      Steam keys imminent? (...or just hot-air? ;-)

    29. Creator Theta Sigma on April 27

      @All

      Interesting development...

      http://j.mp/EliteSteamIDLinking

    30. Creator Avalanche on April 26

      @ Oldschool Shadowrunner

      I'm keeping okay... wait, does "WB" mean 'welcome back'? How long was I gone for?

    31. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 26

      @Theta Sigma: Are you really telling me to seek help after being told three times that our conversation is over? You are a hoot dude!
      @Avalanche: WB brother... how are you keeping?

    32. Creator Avalanche on April 26

      I re-read some of the deleted posts by going to http://www.frontiermirror.com/kickstarter… and as I thought, they're not trolling, but angry. Yet also relevant, useful, blunt, a reasonable reflection of goings on and sometimes very heartfelt. Maybe that was just me, but either way, I'm glad I read them again.

      I'm not absolutely sure why they were all even deleted, but I think it's good to know that/what they were. Maybe saying anymore risks a deletion here and now, so beware. Looks like the 'holding back' policy of old saved *me* a few deleted posts. Although, I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

      "Be respectful and considerate." Hmmmm...

      @ cs

      You still about?

      I said, "ARE YOU STILL ABOUT?" :o)

      Is your mirror site still updating or...? It seems to have stopped showing Kickstarter posts after 09/03/2015 3:56 PM

      Not to worry. Maybe life outside of our little world here has been taking up your time or the like. Either way, hope you're doing okay. Just wondered if your site had stalled/glitched a bit.

    33. Creator Theta Sigma on April 25

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      "£1,563,044 and 53 minutes to go!!!!!!"

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      You were so excited(!!!!!!)

      Oldschool Shadowrunner Biography:

      https://www.kickstarter.com/profiles/230354470/bio

      "Thanks to Frontier Developments I will NOT support any Video Games Development on Kickstarter.

      Don't forget to thank them!

      “Remember Remember”
      Remember remember the eleventh of December
      Offline-mode, deceit and plot.
      I see no reason why offline-mode, treason
      Should ever be forgot…
      David Braben and Frontier Developments
      Did the scheme contrive,
      To screw backers of Kick Starter
      From their hard earn proceeds"

      Seek help ;-)

    34. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 25

      @Theta Sigma: You are a hoot. I'm going to re-post what I have told you twice already, as it is obvious that you are getting it: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”. Why are you still continuing?

    35. Creator Theta Sigma on April 25

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Since my very first post in these comments in response to your reply to @tarasis...
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      ...I have felt that every post I've made in response to your vitriol has dragged me ever further down to the subterranean levels set by you and your fellow-refunders.

      It's clear to anyone checking the history of these comments, that from the 16-11-14 (three entire months prior to my first post) the atmosphere generated in these comments by you and those sharing your minority view has become increasingly unfriendly to newcomers who do not share your view, and extremely toxic and cynical, in general.

      That you have succeeded in ensuring that supporters of E:D can no longer stand to even read your myopic conjecture and biased and ill-informed conspiracy theories is, perhaps for you, something to take pride in.

      Ultimately, however, having received refunds and yet still be so keen to continue your pointless and bitter campaign to attempt to discredit absolutely anything relating to E:D is really to be pitied.

      You have my sympathies.

    36. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 25

      I believe Mrs. Sarah Cook once said "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”... You Win. Cheers & see you in few days. (or sooner)

    37. Creator Theta Sigma on April 25

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner:

      I hope you enjoyed the typo ;-)

      Naturally, my previous post should have stated:

      £100 > $100

    38. Creator Theta Sigma on April 25

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      "Cheers & see you in few days."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      few days > ~48 hours
      your response ~ 14 hours

      What happened to your resolve?

      (...also, you will never 'see' me ;- )

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "@Theta Sigma You are very predictable and are a terrible lair."

      I presume you mean 'liar' ?
      (...although, certainly, since 'Offline Mode' this comments section could indeed be described as a 'lair')

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
      With that in mind:
      Presuming that you actually meant 'liar', would you care to highlight any comments I have made that are definitive, objective, provable 'lies' ? (...or will all your accusations in fact turn out to be things that are subjective opinions that we both disagree on and neither of us have any definitive proof either way?)

      "Whinnied and complained"

      Horses 'whinny'
      Oldschool Shadowrunners 'Whine'

      "I got my money back and not one person in our group bought Elite after they heard the shenanigans they pulled. Mission accomplished."

      Congratulations on receiving your refund.
      Very well done, also, on spreading the message to your group.

      Do remember, though, that there are now half a million+ purchasers of E:D who either haven't heard, or haven't listened to your diatribes - I think you vastly overestimate your reach and influence within the gaming community.

      "How much money again do you have invested in Elite? Just $100?"

      £100 (as previously stated)

      £100 != $100
      $100 > $100

      "If they are going to succeed and be at the top of the charts..."

      Do note that these two things can be mutually exclusive.

      "you need to do more."

      On the contrary, I don't *need* to do anything.
      The facts of the matter on number of sales, gross revenue, share price, audience-reception, critic-reception, console deals, upcoming console releases, Mac beta, upcoming Mac release, regular .x releases, upcoming DLC releases (Planetary Landings) cumulative in-game time, average in-game time per player, Metacritic Critic Average, Metacritic User Average, Metacritic 'Most Helpful' Average (Top 10, Top 25, Top 50, Top 100, Top 200, Top 300 - wherever you care to cherry-pick the cut-off) Steam Average - all stand for themselves and most especially when taken together.

      Realise, also, that this comments section is only frequented by ~10 people per day (and most likely the same 10 people - see 'Usual Suspects analysis ;-)

      Posting here is just as pointless as your mission to discredit E:D/Frontier/Braben/whatever...

      "HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH... bitter and entitlement complex! HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!"

      Your over-use of caps says it all, really ;-)

    39. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 25

      @Theta Sigma: You are very predictable and are a terrible lair. If you are going to lie about something don't change your story multiply times. It smells fishy. (HAHA!).
      .
      Whinnied and complained to Kickstarter in an attempt to get us all banned and our comments censored is not going to work. This is not a FD forum and communists type of censorship doesn't belong or exist here.
      .
      Finally I don't care if they are going to succeed or not. I already told you this. Remember the Scotch and the Cigars story? I got my money back and not one person in our group bought Elite after they heard the shenanigans they pulled. Mission accomplished.
      .
      How much money again do you have invested in Elite? Just $100? HAHA! As I said... terrible lair. If they are going to succeed and be at the top of the charts... you need to do more. You should buy all your friends steam gift codes.
      .
      HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH... bitter and entitlement complex! HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!

    40. Creator Theta Sigma on April 24

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Your previous comment:

      "Whining, complaining and screaming harassment because you are losing an argument is pathetic. I believe Mrs. Sarah Cook once said "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Cheers & see you in few days."

      ...is indeed the height of irony.

      The only reason I bothered to start posting here in the first place back in February was *specifically* due to your whining, complaining and screaming harassment of @tarasis when they made their very first post; an innocent question to the comments.

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      @tarasis - excuse my language but where the hell have you been living for last 2-3 months? You really like us to believe this is the first time you heard people are not happy with FD? 15,000 posts on FD board, google news paper articles, thousands of negative comments here and many other places, refund game code, etc, etc, etc. Yet you want us to swallow that you just randomly decide to check kickstarter comments section months after the game was released and then post how you are shocked about legal actions and how happy you are with what you got?!?! Smells Fishy...Is that you Braben?

      Congratulations! It would seem that you now think you've, in fact, dragged me down to *your* level ;-)

      From my knowledge of your posts to these comments prior to tarasis I really should have known better than to even start trying to discuss anything with you.

      Remember: There is no 'argument' to 'win' or 'lose' here (and, I should add, you had been posting vitriol on here *far* longer than I even made my first post, so really, you're the one with the most 'experience' to beat me with in your race to the bottom ;- )

      The fact of the matter is:
      Elite: Dangerous is continuing to be a success and there's nothing you can do about it (except get banned and moderated to oblivion and come across as bitter as hell with an entitlement complex)

    41. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 24

      @Theta Sigma: Whining, complaining and screaming harassment because you are losing an argument is pathetic. I believe Mrs. Sarah Cook once said "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Cheers & see you in few days.
      .
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

    42. Creator Jörn Huxhorn on April 24

      Neither is accusing me of lying ("So, yet another statement presented as fact that turns out to be completely untrue.", https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ) just trolling.

      Yep, an edit function would sometimes be neat.

    43. Creator Jörn Huxhorn on April 24

      And choosing

      "Also, this isn't a forum and it isn't moderated." (2015-03-25, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… )

      while ignoring

      "And again: this isn't a forum, this isn't a thread. The forum is over at https://forums.frontier.co.uk/ where the mods are swinging their ban hammer and locked at least two threads about the offline mode. The only "moderation" happening on Kickstarter is the deletion of whole comments in case of spam or slurs." (2015-03-25, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… )

      from the exact same day isn't cherry-picking at all.

      Neither is accusing me of lying ("So, yet another statement presented as fact that turns out to be completely untrue.", https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… )

      I'm sure you were very well aware of my other comment (as you are aware of my repeated Thargoid question). You just decided it would be much more fun to willfully misrepresent my statement and ignore any information that doesn't suite your "interpretation".

      The only conspiracy theory this is fueling is that you are probably an employee of FD with the task to annoy us until we leave this section alone.

      Congratulations! You just stole my time again! <3

    44. Creator Theta Sigma on April 24

      @Fabio Capela

      I would agree that those are all fair, objective observations.

      Most especially the timing of Steam/Steam Keys/Power Play:
      In an ideal world these could have been made to coincide with each other.

    45. Creator Fabio Capela on April 24

      @Theta Sigma
      Apart from extraordinary moments, every game follows a similar 7 days pattern. Or, rather, every single entertainment venue; TV, movie theater attendance, patrons in pubs, etc.

      What we need to see is how soon the game will start falling (seems like it started a bit over a week after launch, worse than many MMOs but better than most games), how steep the game's initial fall will be (doesn't seem to be too steep up to now, it's decaying a bit slower than I predicted earlier, but this is just the second week of the fall so it's kinda hard to tell for sure), and how long the fall will last before the game more or less stabilizes. Barring some highly unusual behavior (like Dark Souls 2 peaking when the Scholar of the First Sin was released), the tendency is for ED to just fall from here, similar to almost every game.

      Food for thought: the moment when a large part of the potential player base forms their opinion about the game is when they first learn about its release. Which means that, for the dozens of millions of Steam users, that moment was when it was released on Steam — back when Frontier were flat out refusing to release any information about Power Play. If they truly expect Power Play to drive the interest in the game, the Steam release seems to have been very poorly planned: no advertisement, no Steam features, irked a reasonable number of players by not giving Steam keys to those that purchased earlier, and happened before what the team expects to be one of the main draws towards multiplayer was revealed. One more thing that makes me wonder if the Steam release was rushed for whichever reason.

    46. Creator Avalanche on April 24

      @ Theta Sigma

      FD could reply.

    47. Creator Theta Sigma on April 24

      @Wyzak

      "Currently it is sitting on position 43 with 2946 current players - http://steamcharts.com/top/p.2 "
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      @Random Element

      "As of 9pm on 22/4/15 E:D peaked at just 4987. Impressive, to say the least."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      At this moment, E:D sits at #40 sandwiched between Dark Souls II and Neverwinter.

      If you compare these three games over the period of a month (well before E:D release) you can see that there certainly has been a 'honeymoon' period for E:D - a peak from which it has dropped.
      Yet, E:D is now following a very similar pattern to the other two games, following the general multiple-day trend.

      http://j.mp/SteamEDHoneymoon

      E:D Steam players have racked up 2.5 million hours in-game, with an average cumulative play-time per-person of 30 hours.
      It's also just surpassed half a million total sales across all platforms.

    48. Creator Theta Sigma on April 24

      @Avalanche

      Hmmm... let's see.
      Some examples?

      Wyzak on February 17
      "As expected, the trolls just came to troll, and have now disappeared."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      ...well, as you can see, I haven't disappeared - two months later - not exactly 'troll hit-and-run' tactics as suggested by Wyzak on April 4

      The fact that I'm one of the only supporters who bothers to post here any more seems to be interpreted as troll-like behaviour, when it's actually someone presenting their own opinion and refuting along with some analysis, the ludicrous claims made by a group of people who have become used to only their side of the matter being presented whilst lulling themselves into a false sense that their extremely vocal view is somehow shared by the majority (when it demonstrably is not shared by the majority)

      Have you ever wondered why other supporters no longer bother to post?
      Could it be because the atmosphere here has become toxic and virtually any opposing view is immediately ridiculed/rubbished or asserted to be shill-like, troll-like, or the favourite: fan-boy behaviour?

      Jörn Huxhorn on 4 April
      "@Theta Sigma - And that, my friend, is the ultimate proof that you are simply trolling and stealing my time."

      "@Wyzak
      No, Theta Sigma knows perfectly well what trolling is."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Wyzak on April 8
      "@Theta Sigma - Sounds incredibly similar to troll behaviour."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Wyzak on April 9
      @Theta Sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      You constantly call us the minority, yet out of the 25,000 backers here you seem unable to get anybody else to back up your views and post regularly? Why is that?

      In Internet slang, a troll (/'tro?l/, /'tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Jörn Huxhorn on 23 April
      "@Wyzak
      Theta Sigma is just trolling."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Wyzak on 23 April
      @Theta Sigma "That's troll-like behaviour to me."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      You may not like my opinions - and I'm sure you can realise that this state of affairs is mutual.
      However, as I've said before, opposing someone else's opinion is not trolling.

      On the other hand, repeatedly posting disingenuous statements (on multiple forums) regarding virtually everything related to a game, its producing company and CEO because: 'Offline/DRM' and furthermore having these posts moderated out of existence and achieving permanent bans from multiple independent forums (Steam, Kickstarter etc.) is much more akin to trolling than reasonably opposing an opinion in a comments section for a product that one backed.

    49. Creator Avalanche on April 24

      @ Theta Sigma

      Why say "troll"?

    50. Creator Theta Sigma on April 24

      @Jörn Huxhorn

      "Nope. That's actually not the thing we are discussing. But I didn't expect a different reaction by now."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      So... the date on which Offline mode started being discussed in these comments has no bearing? At all?

      Looking objectively: the removal of Offline mode (and DRM) was the single, solitary instigating event that in turn led to *all* further comments related to refund requests, delays in repayment, refusal of refund for those that had already downloaded and played, threats of legal action and on, and on, and on.
      It is therefore entirely logical to use the date of 16-11-14 as a reference point from which to analyse these comments.

      @Jörn Huxhorn

      RE: 'This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.'

      "Also, this isn't a forum and it isn't moderated." (Jörn Huxhorn on March 25)
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      So, yet another statement presented as fact that turns out to be completely untrue.
      Obviously, these comments are, in fact, moderated.

      Yet I suppose this will only further stoke the conspiracy theories that Frontier are somehow in cahoots with Kickstarter.

      @Avalanche

      "So, not trolling."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      See Jörn Huxhorn's assertion, above: "Also, this isn't a forum and it isn't moderated"

      Except it *is* moderated, and furthermore, *not* by Frontier.
      The fact that Kickstarter saw fit to remove comments from Random Element and Oldschool Shadowrunner is telling.
      Clearly there was something in their comments that didn't fit with the rules of these comments:
      https://www.kickstarter.com/help/community

      Perhaps Random Element and Oldschool Shadowrunner forgot to be 'respectful and considerate' ?
      Reading other posts from them, that assessment certainly is not out of the question.

      Do realise, however, that failure to adhere to comment rules (and then subsequently being subject to external moderation) is very often the mark of a troll.

      Let me be clear: I'm not saying they definitely are trolls - just making some observations, and naturally questioning why their comments were removed.

      It would be edifying for other individuals on here to be able to make their own personal judgement as to whether Random and Oldschool's comments were trolling, or not, but unfortunately we can no longer do this.

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