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Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
25,681 backers pledged £1,578,316 to help bring this project to life.

Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!

    1. Theta Sigma about 1 hour ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner
      .
      .
      Theta Sigma on 22Jan 2016

      "@Oldschool Shadowrunner Did these alleged "FALSE" filings also conceal the purchase of shares in Bacofoil? As I suggested back in June, why not post your concerns to the ombudsman? If you've done so back then they'd have had an entire seven months to investigate, and, if your allegations were true as you strenuously assert then you'd be able to post comments in here which completely corroborate your allegations, backed up by the ombudsman's report..."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      .
      Theta Sigma on 24 Jun 2015

      "Jörn Huxhorn has previously suggested that the fact there were second-filings/corrections/amendments is some kind of proxy for "obviously guilty of deliberately posting false figures previously"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      .
      UPDATE: If you'd made representations to the ombudsman back in June 2015 they'd now have had an entire TEN months to investigate your claims.
      .
      There are really only two possibilities here, os.

      Either:
      .
      1. You did _not_ make such representations
      - if not, why not? ...as you clearly have an absolutely unshakeable faith in your beliefs, looking at the sheer frequency of posts you have made on this particular subject
      .
      2. You _did_ make such representations and the ombudsman found no suggestion of impropriety
      - and perhaps you just forgot to inform us of these findings?

    2. Philip Coutts about 4 hours ago

      @deusx_ophc Still lurking my friend, always lurking. I pop in here now and then to read about how Frontier are doomed and Elite Dangerous is doomed, always raises a chuckle. Not sure why anyone who has received a refund, dislikes the game and dislikes Frontier would still be posting when no-one but KS backers read these comments and even then there are about 5 people and a dog who still pop in past, but there you go, each to their own.

    3. Oldschool Shadowrunner about 5 hours ago

      I wonder when the stock market regulators are going to catch up with Mr Braben for concealing the issue of millions of shares behind false filings to Companies House? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Many of which coincidentally ended up in Mr Braben's personal account. And which he then sold just before releasing the dire Horizons expansion which crashed the share price and wiped £millions off his investors' holdings. http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/FDEV/12597742.html

      Or maybe the regulators have already caught up with him. For why else would he have retracted his false claim to have bought the Elite sequel rights that were paid for using those very same concealed shares? http://www.frontier.co.uk/investor_relations/aimrule26/annual_report/

    4. deusx_ophc about 6 hours ago

      well "thousands" in terms of shares traded dtd is technically correct but also comically shows how you try to spin FDEVs apparent demise.
      but you as experienced trader will fully understand the ramifications of that 6,500 individual shares traded
      @os have you yet crossed the bridge of khazad-dûm ?!

    5. Oldschool Shadowrunner about 8 hours ago

      Theta Sigma, Frontier's increasingly desperate PR man, wrote:
      "According to the publicly available trading data, a grand total of 100 FDEV shares were sold yesterday."
      .
      Yeah, and its pretty sad that no FDEV buyer wanted to pick up such a small quantity except at a lowered price.

      Today, thousands of FDEV shares have been traded. Price down again. Wiping nearly £4million from the company valuation. http://i.imgur.com/M4A3C7S.png

    6. deusx_ophc about 12 hours ago

      @Philip Coutts wowzer - long time no see ^^
      thanks for posting that trading update. a timely reminder of how well FDEV are doing, and yet another revolving credit line has been ended.

      strong position indeed.

      @os you go girl ^^

    7. Theta Sigma about 15 hours ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      According to the publicly available trading data, a grand total of 100 FDEV shares were sold yesterday.

      I guess that doesn't really fit the narrative you're trying to push.

    8. Oldschool Shadowrunner about 18 hours ago

      Philip Coutts wrote: "Hmmm looks like Frontiers results are pretty positive to me..."
      .
      Then I guess you're not that experienced in reading such reports. Hint: the share price dropped on the news.

    9. Theta Sigma about 22 hours ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #010

      Theta Sigma on April 27, 2015

      "Comments (125,125)"
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      April 27, 2016

      Comments (128,015)

      Woah. This comments section is _still_ expanding at the rate of 2,890 comments / year
      .
      .
      - Elite: Dangerous _still_ continues
      .
      - Frontier Developments _still_ haven't gone bust

    10. Theta Sigma 1 day ago

      @Philip Coutts

      You're not reading it correctly.

      Did you miss the following?

      "Important Note
      The information contained in this announcement about the sales of Elite: Dangerous and Planet Coaster does not constitute a profit estimate or profit forecast in respect of the Group or any guidance as to the likely profits of the Group."

      This is a clear hiding-in-plain-sight indication that the contents of the so-called 'Trading Update' are utterly fictitious and can therefore be safely ignored.

      ...or something %^]

    11. Oldschool Shadowrunner 2 days ago

      Frontier attempts a simple code update to fix the horribly bugged Xbox version. of ED. What could possibly go wrong?

      "
      Today, 11:49 AM #1
      Niels83 Niels83 is online now
      Average
      Unhappy XBOX UPdate gone wrong?
      Today we just got the new update, and it has done something horrible to my account. I can't start the game any more.
      i get in to the game, see the new elite Logo, i press A to start, then i get an error/ warning.
      "THE PERSON WHO BOUGHT THIS NEEDS TO SIGN IN. Sign in with the profile used for purchase, or buy a copy at the xbox. "
      I can't cause i have the game already. Plus i dont feel like buying the game again with another account when i already own the game....
      So what now. Is my game lost in space and does that mean i lost that anaconda i have been grinding from the start and FINALLY got early this morning.
      "

      "
      Today, 12:17 PM Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #2
      QA-Mitch QA-Mitch is online now
      Frontier QA Team
      Frontier Employee
      QA-Mitch's Avatar
      *Edit: 18:00 Tuesday 26/04/16*

      Hello everyone,

      Thank you for your patience, we are aware of this issue and it is out top priority at the moment to get this issue resolved for you all.
      "
      https://archive.is/FbkNA

    12. Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #009

      Oldschool Shadowrunner on April 26, 2015

      "@Theta Sigma: Are you really telling me to seek help after being told three times that our conversation is over? You are a hoot dude!

      @Avalanche: WB brother... how are you keeping?"
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .

      A
      M
      A
      Z
      I
      N
      G

      %^]

    13. Oldschool Shadowrunner 2 days ago

      "Today, 5:45 PM Doolittle
      Might as well call this game Elite: Bugs-r-us. I think the ground based missions are just as bad as the space ones. It's a egg hunt and nothing more, with broken eggs.
      "
      https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php…

    14. Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner
      .
      ...and your view and appraisal of the situation has absolutely nothing to do with offline mode, right?
      .
      You received your full refund a full 445 days ago, on 6th February 2015
      .
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      Ever since that date you have posted - on average - more than once per day over that entire 15 month period, and almost exclusively regarding the supposed imminent demise of Elite: Dangerous and Frontier Developments
      .
      Surely it would be reasonable for anyone reading such claims to question quite when this demise might actually occur?
      .
      .
      Let's summarise:
      .
      - You originally had to wait 49 days before Frontier Developments confirmed your refund request
      .
      - Now, as an ex-backer, you have been posting for a period approaching _ten_times_longer_ than the period you initially had to wait until your refund request was addressed

    15. Oldschool Shadowrunner 2 days ago

      @Brendan @oldschool are you seriously telling me all of this whining is over the lack of offline mode?
      .
      No, the one saying all of this this whining is over offline mode is Theta Sigma, the Frontier PR man.
      .
      "The studio has a long term strategy and is doing a pretty decent job of making a go at it."
      .
      Sales down the pan (currently almost zero showing on Steam, even during a massive price cut).
      Players numbers down the pan (lowest since records began).
      User review scores down the pan (65% on Steam, 64% on metacritic).
      Profit down the pan (a £1.7m loss in the last six months)
      Earnings down the pan (warning to investors of lower than expected this period).
      Development schedule down the pan (next pre-paid expansion delayed by up to seven months with still no release date given)
      .
      That's what you call a pretty decent job?

    16. Brendan 2 days ago

      @oldschool are you seriously telling me all of this whining is over the lack of offline mode?

      Honestly the salty angst here is hilarious. And quite bad. The studio has a long term strategy and is doing a pretty decent job of making a go at it.

      The game isn't perfect, but acting as though Frontier will fall over next week and cease building the game (it hasn't delivered, apparently - weird since I've been playing since August last year!) is the sort of "sky is falling; look at it fall!" false flag crap I'd expect from angsty teenagers bagging the game on steam, as some kind of "punishment" for their exact desire not being available yet.

      Honestly, this comment train is just basically a dumb argument on the Internet. Meanwhile, frontier is gearing up for yet another huge update; 1.6 and 2.1. So go ahead and keep arguing about what the horse should be like, after its left the stable. Go crazy.

      But understand - it looks like a silly argument from children who haven't quite got the toy they imagined they would get.

    17. deusx_ophc 2 days ago

      3 years ago ^^ and yeah obviously @Brendan has hit the right notes. everyone comes out to explain how he is wrong and that they are, of course, right

      funny old game innit

    18. Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #008

      3 Years Ago...
      .
      Creator Frontier Developments on April 26, 2013
      .
      "New progress video update:

      http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/posts/464795

      Michael"
      .
      .
      ...and in the ensuing comments:
      .
      .
      Peter Scott on April 26, 2013
      "This sounds like feature creep and none essential. Are you running this as a shareholder r as a vanity project?"
      .
      .
      Chris Handley on April 26, 2013

      "I'm glad to see they are NOT adding every feature under the sun, just because someone asked for it, and instead are sticking to David's focused vision of what Elite Dangerous should be :-)
      Also very glad to hear the cockpits will be 3D, because as he says it adds SO much to the feel of realism."
      .
      .
      Salopp on May 10, 2013

      "Regarding the Oculus Rift - David Braben has mentioned that support is "a possibility". Have you ordered a Rift yet? Do you have a dev unit to try some stuff? I hear the experience is very immersive."

    19. Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      Brendan wrote "are you folks seriously arguing about a highly successful game ".
      .
      No Brendan, we're seriously arguing about Elite Dangerous!
      .
      The game that just drove its developer Frontier Developments into a £1.7m loss for the last financial period, issuing a warning to the stock market about revenues for the current period. That's while Frontier is still burning £1m a month on salaries alone and all visible sales figures show its game income is nowhere near enough to pay the bill.
      .
      The only person for whom ED has been a huge success is David Braben, who has so far personally walked away with £5.8m of investors' money, since the date he reneged on delivering the ED game he promised to his Kickstarter backers.

    20. Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Avalanche

      There is no doubt that Frontier Developments could and should have handled the offline issue far better than they did. I have stated so many times before, to the extent that I sympathise with those aggrieved by what happened.

      What I continually object to, however, is the way that many of those so aggrieved have taken that issue and expanded it to attempt to naysay, detract, rubbish, rumour-monger and doom-monger about anything and everything related to Elite: Dangerous, Frontier Developments, David Braben.

      The evidence of the history of this comments section proves, through the steady passage of time, that virtually every negative prediction regarding E:D and FDEV has failed to transpire.

      Leaving us with the fact that, yes, Frontier could/should have handled offline better, but that in no way means that everything Frontier has done is inherently bad.

      Feel free to check for veracity and accuracy (now with added hindsight) and you will find that I have reported a far more objective version of events regarding the progress of Elite: Dangerous than those who are seemingly unable to see through the red mist of offline mode.

    21. Avalanche 3 days ago

      @ Brendan [ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… ]

      Surely it could be questioned as to why, after so much time, you would want to post amongst such stupidity. But I would also say that your sandpit analogy in no way represents what has happened over the years.

      I think some people, so long ago now, tried to defend Frontier Developments' appalling behaviour to such an extent, that the situation became very polarised, while Frontier Developments just kept out of it. I'm very much on one side, but I think there's an understandable mix of resentment and bitterness towards Frontier Developments, now partially directed towards those who once tried (and still try) to defend the indefensible, who successfully moved the arguments away from Frontier Developments' original behaviour to the areas we are in now, exacerbated by Frontier Developments forever refusing to get involved.

      On top of that, the game itself is very polarising, even outside of the offline issue, but that's a discussion that unfortunately rarely happens. To me Frontier Developments, and in particular David Braben, are the root cause. This comments section is just the aftermath of their decisions and absence.

      I think most of the people who posted and still post against Elite Dangerous were big fans of the original game who wanted, and were promised, so much more. It's just that now, it might not look that way to many. It's why I think your sandpit/sandcastle comparison is unfair.

    22. Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #007
      2 Years Ago...

      Tim L [Paden on ED Forums] on April 25, 2014

      "First time I've been on here in absolutely ages. Can't believe there is still some negativity about the project. You tube vids of Alpha look great. Good to see some familiar names still on here. Hiya @Eric, @Deus, @Styggron, @Matt Dobson, @Geordie Marv, @Jonty, @Kerrash, @Philip Coutts. Hope you're all well. So who's been having a good go on the Alpha?
      Looking forward to the standard Beta... just need a machine to play it on now. Thinking about a Thrustmaster HOTAS too..."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      .
      deusx_ophc on April 25, 2014

      "hi tim, good to see you sir !
      alpha has been a blast since the first day. the last few weeks with sunny spring and easter have meant i have been outdoors :o a lot.
      still, the last alpha build is very stable for me now and the game loop works a treat, great dog fighing going on, beautiful space to marvel at and coriolis docking like whoa!
      obviously it is limited and that has kept me from playing recently, as the different scenarios are known for a long time. i put in a few reports and hope to have done the testers job half decently
      very very keen to see alpha 4.0 roll out and for the premium beta to hit so many more backers (and purchasers).
      overall the feeling (and head) says that this new elite is shaping up to be just as glorious an experience as we all hoped for =)
      right on commander!!
      ps. drop by the forum at http://forums.frontier.co.uk/ - even eric has finally turned up!!"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "First time I've been on here in absolutely ages. Can't believe there is still some negativity about the project."

      Absolutely, Tim.

    23. Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      Hi Brendan, the thing is: they believed it was their exclusive sandcastle, and they are aggrieved because they were forced to share the sandpit.

      Cue: inevitable suggestions that the sandpit is "...a mile wide, an inch deep - and almost entirely devoid of sand"

    24. Brendan 3 days ago

      .. are you folks seriously arguing about a highly successful game like school ground kids defending their bit of the sandpit because admitting you might have been wrong about someone else's sandcastle, is impossible?

      Do you folks have any understanding of how stupid this entire argument looks? Because it looks very, very stupid.

    25. Theta Sigma 4 days ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #006

      Fabio Capela on April 24, 2015

      "@Theta Sigma
      Apart from extraordinary moments, every game follows a similar 7 days pattern. Or, rather, every single entertainment venue; TV, movie theater attendance, patrons in pubs, etc.
      What we need to see is how soon the game will start falling (seems like it started a bit over a week after launch, worse than many MMOs but better than most games), how steep the game's initial fall will be (doesn't seem to be too steep up to now, it's decaying a bit slower than I predicted earlier, but this is just the second week of the fall so it's kinda hard to tell for sure), and how long the fall will last before the game more or less stabilizes. Barring some highly unusual behavior (like Dark Souls 2 peaking when the Scholar of the First Sin was released), the tendency is for ED to just fall from here, similar to almost every game.
      Food for thought: the moment when a large part of the potential player base forms their opinion about the game is when they first learn about its release. Which means that, for the dozens of millions of Steam users, that moment was when it was released on Steam — back when Frontier were flat out refusing to release any information about Power Play. If they truly expect Power Play to drive the interest in the game, the Steam release seems to have been very poorly planned: no advertisement, no Steam features, irked a reasonable number of players by not giving Steam keys to those that purchased earlier, and happened before what the team expects to be one of the main draws towards multiplayer was revealed. One more thing that makes me wonder if the Steam release was rushed for whichever reason."
      .

      Hi Fabio, how are you doing these days?

      "...the tendency is for ED to just fall from here, similar to almost every game."

      "...every game follows a similar 7 days pattern."

      I agree - so for that reason - comparing 'Peak Concurrent Players Online' on the nearest Friday to Friday an _entire _year_ apart:

      E:D
      Friday 24th April 2015 - 5195
      Friday 22rd April 2016 - 3928 (-24%)
      .
      DSII:SOTFS
      Friday 24th April 2015 - 5905
      Friday 22rd April 2016 - 3607 (-39%)
      .
      GTAV
      Friday 24th April 2015 - 245,193
      Friday 22rd April 2016 - 47,897 (-80%)
      .
      The reasonable conclusions therefore, Fabio - based upon your own reasoning - are that Elite: Dangerous

      - is _not_ similar to almost every game
      - has bucked the trend of almost every game
      - has _not_ fallen nearly as far as almost every game that was launched on Steam within the same two week window back in April 2015

      source:
      https://steamdb.info/graph/…

      (Elite: Dangerous is the graph in #evergreen :)

    26. Theta Sigma 5 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Wow.

      "stupid", "dummy", "hard of understanding" (seriously? ouch!)
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Seems like you're getting way too defensive/offensive and lashing out because E:D is still, after more than year:

      - in the Top100 by 'Total Time Spent'
      - in the Top25 by 'Playtime'

      Please accept my apologies for not being clear enough in my post on the matter, but given that my previous references to this particular chart (over a period of 6 months) have referred to 'Playtime' I thought you'd realise. Clearly you did not.

      Also, when you realised the default sort by 'Total Time Spent' didn't show E:D #23, did you not perhaps think to check that I was referring to the 'Playtime' sort?

      Of course, it's no surprise that your first reaction is to (try to) attack the person making the post rather than making any attempt to understand the post. It's your clearly demonstrated modus operandi since the offline decision.

      For reference:

      "E:D still #23 in 'Top 100 Games in the last 2 weeks by total time spent' "

      https://i.imgur.com/QYiVqpu.png

      Please see my previous posts on this matter in which I clearly state: http://steamspy.com/ Top Games > Playtime
      .
      Theta Sigma on 5 December, 2015

      "http://steamspy.com/ Top Games > Playtime"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      Theta Sigma on 28 November, 2015

      "http://steamspy.com/ Top Games > Playtime"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      Theta Sigma on 24 November, 2015

      "http://steamspy.com/ Top Games > Playtime"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      Finally, the (median) (in parentheses) refers to the median. Yes.

      But you'll note that the column for 'Playtime' is, in fact, sorted by the first number 'Playtime' _not_ the (median)
      You'll note in the image I posted above, the column is listed in descending order of the first number 'Playtime'
      ...and _not_ by descending order of the (median) which vary up and down the list...

      And where does this value of 'Playtime' - not in parentheses - originate?
      Well, it's from Steamspy and refers to the 'Playtime' (average)

      Playtime in the last 2 weeks: 13:56 (average) 02:12 (median)
      http://steamspy.com/app/359320

      average != median

      ...as anyone with a modicum of math(s) knowledge is (usually) fully aware

      Respectful and considerate suggestion:

      Try to address the figures rather than using words like "stupid", "dummy" and "hard of understanding"

      Thank You.

    27. Oldschool Shadowrunner 5 days ago

      Theta Sigma, Frontier PR man, wrote: "Question: Did you sort the chart by 'Playtime'"
      .
      Of course I didn't sort by playtime. That would be stupid. ED appears in the top #25 by playtime (median) ONLY because it has so few players. That's the way the math of median works, as any dummy knows.
      .
      Far more meaningful is to consider the number of players, which (obviously) you can see by sorting the top #100 on Players. Predictably, Elite Dangerous is right at the bottom. That's #100, for the hard of understanding.
      .
      "(y'know, the criterion I clearly referred to) ?".

      No, you didn't refer to it at all. Anyone can see this here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      .
      What you did was falsely claim "E:D still #23 in 'Top 100 Games in the last 2 weeks by total time spent'".

    28. Theta Sigma 5 days ago

      [awaiting Wall-o-Text™ copypasta]

    29. Theta Sigma 5 days ago

      ...aaaand sorted by the default 'Total Time Spent'

      E:D still #90 in 'Top 100 Games in the last 2 weeks by total time spent'

      http://steamspy.com

      Still in the Top100 after more than a year on Steam.

      #doomed

    30. Theta Sigma 5 days ago

      @Oldschool Wishfulthinker

      Question: Did you sort the chart by 'Playtime' (y'know, the criterion I clearly referred to) ?

      Answer: No. You did not.

      You then made an absolute statement which is absolutely incorrect.

      This follows the pattern of your general #pigeon chess style.

    31. Oldschool Shadowrunner 5 days ago

      Theta Sigma, Frontier PR man wrote
      "E:D still #23 in 'Top 100 Games in the last 2 weeks by total time spent'"
      .
      Complete fabrication. ED is nowhere to be seen in the top 25 of that chart. http://s31.postimg.org/vx9auskcr/SSTBTS.png.

    32. Theta Sigma 5 days ago

      'On This Day in Kickstarter History' #005

      Random Element on April 23, 2015

      "I see the one man pointless crusade is still going strong in the defence of those borderline fraudsters @FDEV. Nice.
      As of 9pm on 22/4/15 E:D peaked at just 4987. Impressive, to say the least.
      Just glad I got my £150 back from Fraudulent Developments PLC.
      Thanks for keeping this place alive and kicking!
      Carry on crusading!"
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      ...aaaand as of 9pm on 22/4/16 E:D peaked at 3,928

      So, that's a drop of ~1000 (-21%) peak concurrent online players over the course of a year - pretty good figures considering more than 4 months have now elapsed since the last major releases 1.5 and 2.0 dropped.

      Hmmm... I wonder how the imminent 1.6 and 2.1 will affect those figures?
      .
      .
      Also, E:D still #23 in 'Top 100 Games in the last 2 weeks by total time spent'

      http://steamspy.com

      Random Element? ...you still there?

      #please_tell_us_all_about_the_doom

    33. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      @deusx_ophc

      Croeso nol, brawd! %^]

    34. deusx_ophc 6 days ago

      been away in gwynedd for 3 days and was worried that i come back to a barren ED kickstarter comments section! alas our local batman & robin just about managed to keep this page ticking over. thank you for that /bow
      mawddach and george the 3rd always manage to give you a new perspective. it be nice to find the same here ^^

    35. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      Elite: Dangerous / EDH and Dark Souls II comparison since Steam release:

      http://i.imgur.com/lBoO3G3.png

      https://steamdb.info/graph/…

      Oh yeah, definitely, they're _all_ #doomed

    36. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      Hmmm... "false claims to the stock market... walking off with £millions of investors' money"

      Yet more conjecture and libellous claims from OS.
      Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.

      Perhaps your anger and myopia over E:D has left you blind to what's going on elsewhere?
      I suggest you should read some of the comments for SC:

      "...and things like the extravagant furniture, coffee machine, and mo-cap expenses wouldn't be a big deal if we had, y'know, something resembling a playable game after 4+ years and $111+ million raised. a lot of basic, original kickstarter promises have been dropped, like VR support (they keep saying they'll add it later, but the way all of the "immersion" animations work in SC is anathema to VR), private servers (disco lando himself admitted that they haven't done any work on it and it's the last thing they'll look into after "full release," which is literally years away if it ever happens), etc."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments…
      .
      "croberts himself today talked about releasing a "minimum viable product" sans many stretch goals, promising to "keep working on the game as long as you guys are supporting us" "
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments…
      .
      "Don't get me wrong it sounds nice, looks nice but I would have been happier without a lot of it.
      I have backed some projects that simple stuck to the original plan and I could not be happier. I did not think I was really backing a AAA title that would be years in the making and more. I just want the basic game.
      I might go buy Elite."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments…

    37. Oldschool Shadowrunner 6 days ago

      Theta Sigma a.k.a. Frontier PR man, let's not forget that a big difference between Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous is that only Frontier's main man David Braben has repeatedly made false claims to the stock market on the ownership of relevant game rights https://archive.is/MKLkT ... whilst walking off with £millions of investors' money.

    38. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      @Wyzak @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Aside from this one, there's another pointless keyboard-warrior-endless-deathmatch going on over in the Star Citizen Kickstarter comments section.

      It is extremely reminiscent of this comments section:

      - Basically:

      A handful of disgruntled backers and ex-backers constantly in "discussion" with supporters of the project on the subject of who is "correct"

      Wyzak, I wonder where you'd align yourself in that little storm-in-a-freighter?

      I'm sure you'll agree that it is very conspicuous that you have been so very vocal in these comments and yet so utterly silent in those comments given the number of similarities between the two campaigns and that you are a backer of both projects:

      - Refunds refused
      - Kickstarter promises dropped
      - Scope of project changed
      - (Huge) delays to Estimated Delivery Date
      - Suggestions of accounting malpractice
      - etc...
      .
      .
      SavageHenry on April 22

      "i wonder if star citizen will be the catalyst to congress stepping in and passing some regulations on non-investment crowdfunding"

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments…

    39. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      Let me guess, Oldschool...

      You ain't through with this by a damn sight - you're gonna get medieval on FDEV's ass?

      Oldschool, you seem pretty f***ing faaar from okay... %^]

    40. Oldschool Shadowrunner 6 days ago

      Lest we forget.

      "S. T. Stone, Dec 10th, 2014 @ 9:29pm
      I know what they can call their next game.

      Oh Shit: We Killed Our Careers

      You typically only get one chance to establish trust with customers; this was their one chance and they blew it. No one will ever be able to trust any promise they make after this, and the fault lies squarely with themselves.

      I wouldn’t be surprised to hear of a lawsuit occuring over this (thought I haven’t a clue if it could even get past an initial hearing). Regardless of what happens, this group of developers destroyed any and all reason for potential future investors and customers to ever offer up their money and faith to these charlatans.

      They wanna talk about the future? Well, to steal a line from a Quentin Tarantino film…

      Bitch, you don’t have a future.
      "
      https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141210/09281829380/elite-dangerous-deletes-promised-offline-mode-just-before-release-non-committal-kickstarterbeta-refunds.shtml#c5

    41. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      "...it was the final nail in the coffin of crowd-funded game development... It's the wrong way to develop games and a few successes here and there are simply the outliers of a broken system..."
      .
      .
      Which brings us back to...
      .
      .
      'Things Kickstarter Backers Say About... Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen'
      .
      .
      Can *you* guess the Kickstarter campaign from the comment alone? No cheating! %^]
      .
      .
      1. "I just want what they promised at the beginning."

      2. "...a con trick. An empty shell pretending to be a game."

      3. "This is absolutely the worst way I've been treated by any company, on Kickstarter and off."

      4. "This project will go down in history as the worst crowdfunding disaster of all time."

      5. "You will forever be remembered as another kickstarter failure."

      6. "Your attempts to rewrite the history of the shambolic project are getting well out of hand."

      7. "The single-player thing that most backers don't even care about"

      8. "Another feature has been dropped..."

      9. "You can find plenty of other people online complaining about that same justification to refuse refunds via email"

      10. "They stopped giving refunds a while ago."

      11. "I just can't bring myself to recommend this unfinished, bug infested game to anyone."

      12. "Kickstarter should step in and proceed with legal action. Promised features have been cut from the project... This is against Kickstarter rules."

      13. "I will keep doing what I can to make sure they lose far more in missed sales opportunities than they got from me."

      14. "I sent a similar message to Kickstarter and they also haven't been bothered to even reply to it."

      15. "Please. this doesn't even qualify as an alpha"

      16. "Just doing my civil duty and making sure they don't screw anyone else. Good Karma."

    42. Oldschool Shadowrunner 6 days ago

      Post-mortem on ED: "Braben's vision was extremely limited - remake the 80's game with a modern engine - and the dev team and fan base were unable to accept any criticism of that poor vision."

      "BoilingCold
      11 days ago

      One of the main problems was an expensive, pay to access beta. What this meant was that the period that should have been about testing and genuine feedback from players was utterly dominated by die hard fans.

      This led to any negative feedback being drowned out on the official forums (and also here on Reddit) by blinkered people who'd invested a lot into the game. Combined with a strongly top-down developmental approach, exacerbated by a culture of hero-worship towards David Braben this resulted in an essentially useless beta testing phase and a deeply unimaginative game being released.

      Braben's vision was extremely limited - remake the 80's game with a modern engine - and the dev team and fan base were unable to accept any criticism of that poor vision.

      Personally it was the final nail in the coffin of crowd-funded game development. I have not since supported any games on Kickstarter or the like, nor am I ever likely to again. It's the wrong way to develop games and a few successes here and there are simply the outliers of a broken system, IMO.
      "
      https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4e61fr/what_went_wrong_elite_dangerous/d1xn7c1

    43. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Wall-o-Text™ certainly seems to be the order of the day.

      The sentiments expressed in your last one are all well and good...

      Except the word on the street about Star Citizen and Valkyrie is not exactly glowing.

      Subscribe to Eve? Hmmm... costly.

      No Mans Sky release imminent - will the reality of the game live up to the hype?

      Only time will tell, dude.

      Meanwhile E:D has been out since December 2014 and still seems to be going (?) with major updates imminent.

    44. Oldschool Shadowrunner 6 days ago

      On this game's very rapid and early death.

      "NovaSkyLand 11 days ago

      My in depth analysis of what went wrong and why I quit, as I wrote it 5 months ago.

      Why you should listen to me: I was an admin (not singular, there were multiple) of one of the most feared PvP corps in the game, before the player group meta finally fell apart, and our group along with it.

      TL;DR version of my analysis (Still long, but hey it's a long story): Dev's were anti-player groups from the get-go, refusing to support us and designing the game intentionally to minimize the ability of players and groups to meaningfully impact the game/storyline. Solo and Open sharing the same universe and not locking characters into either/or, plus no incentive to taking the risk of human interaction in Open, destroyed Open mode making player interaction reduced to killing each other, which poor networking and battle mechanics made a complete joke anyways as literally anyone can run away at anytime the minute they realize they are going to lose.

      On the community side, the "carebears" were extremely toxic towards any form of PvP, and the Devs were very supportive of this mentality, actively supporting groups such as Mobius and Fuel Rats whose members were vehemently opposed to criminal groups such as my own and Code (on a meta level mind you, not in game RP reasons). Thus The PvP community was within 6 months of the game's release completely dead, and the game is now reduced to taking screenshots of generic cookie-cutter planets and raving about how realistic the physics are.

      On Eve, the devs actively avoided anything that was even remotely close to Eve's features out of fear of reprisal by the game's carebear community, which was idiotic considering Eve is a SUCCESS story and should be fucking IMITATED. The "carebear" community I feel had a lot of sway in making E:D this "anti-Eve" game that literally represents everything wrong with their mentality of anti-PvP, safe-space, "consensual combat" version of reality.

      All-in-all shitty game design coupled by an equally shitty community (bar the PvP community and political meta while it lasted), plus a broken base game that has never been fixed to this day (looking at you background simulation), led to this game's very rapid and early death and should be labeled TO BE AVOIDED. Any links to this game should redirect to Eve as it is simply superior on every level to E:D; with Valkyrie out now there is literally no reason to waste your money or time on this game. Subscribe to Eve and buy Star Citizen, and get Valkyrie if you want that first person VR experience.
      "
      https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4e61fr/what_went_wrong_elite_dangerous/d1xn2hk

    45. Theta Sigma 6 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      From your previous Wall-o-Text™

      "And last but not least frontier killed it."

      I kind of agree, except it's:

      Frontier are absolutely killing it, bro!

      1.6 & 2.1 about to drop...

      Are you ready for The Boom?

      PS how did you get on with the quiz you just buried (twice) with copypasta?

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

    46. Oldschool Shadowrunner 6 days ago

      What killed Elite Dangerous.

      "NyuuPingu
      11 days ago

      I was about to write a big, huuuge comment about what went wrong with Elite. But while writing it, I realized how much I would have to write and I stopped and scrapped it halfway through.

      To sum it up, what killed E:D:

      The game put in too many mechanics that just take time but add no excitement (Docking, Supercruise, waiting for random USS to pop up when doing missions) due to nostalgia reasons. Probably those who pledged early were huge fans of the first game and saw it through pink glasses. They had no idea of good game design.

      Missions just give credits rewards but there is nothing to spent it on once you have a ship+loadout you like. It becomes meaningless at that point. besides that, other ways of earning credits are much better and since missions do not offer great story experiences, they are totally irrelevant.

      In fact, credits become meaningless, taking out the rewards for everything you do.

      Players have 0 impact on the world around them, Not even player trading is a thing.

      The game managed to disappoint with every 'big' content update they released. And they managed to release them and never touch them again. For example:

      Powerplay is still the worst feature in the game but there are no changes in sight that they will actually fix it. It was announced as the game changing feature yet nobody takes part in it.

      Wings never recieved an update. You can not even do missions together and split the rewards.

      Their business plan of releasing a "Season" every year backfired. people were disappointed with the content updates in Season 1 (the base game) and instead of fixing those, they announced Season 2 for 60$ and only promised more stuff instead of delivering. Many people think they are too busy developing new content that sounds amazing instead of actually making something amazing. The fact that they never touch released content again proves this point.

      The fanbase had a big part in killing the game. The official forums did not allow any criticism on the game and constructive and well thought out suggestions ot shot down by fanboyism. The subreddit was similar to this, whenver you mentioned something bad and suggested a change in the mechanics, people downvoted you and attacked you.

      The fanbase has a strange "elitism" attitude. In their eyes Elite:Dangerous is the recreation of the first Elite game and is perfect in it's very own nature. Everyone who doesn't enjoy the game is someone who don't know how "sandbox games" work and needs a game "that holds their hands". Elite is not such a game and therefor you should just leave instead of making suggestions and criticism.

      And last but not least frontier killed it. They've set the goal to high for what they could achieve. They sold and marketed the game as some kind of EVE-online in first person, yet is was a subpar online experience with almost no content to do. They should have stuck with a singleplayer game and maybe add a coop option but instead they tried to simulate the universe. The result was a game full of similar and boring (and procedural generated) content that nobody wanted to do.

      Then they wanted to sell the idea of a "10-year plan" and couldn't even get the first year right. But because of said plan they did not have time to fix anything and were too busy developing the next content update. People were angry about the actual content and they came over, expecting them to pay again.

      The project is already doomed to fail and multiple delays have already been announced. I haven't recieved any meaningful updates in their weekly newsletter for months and I doubt there will be any in the upcoming ones. It almost looks like frontier themselves have shifted most of the resources off of E:D and over to Planet Coaster, as this game seems to have more potential.

      I'm cursious though about what they want to say about their 10 year plan once they have to announce that it wont happen anymore. Especially with No Mans Sky and Star Citizen ariving anytime soon I doubt that Elite will ever get back a meaningfull playerbase. Season 3 needs to be a huge game changer, but regarding all the things that are wrong with it right now, I doubt they can pull this off.

      Realy sad actually, I really wished it would become a great game.
      "
      https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4e61fr/what_went_wrong_elite_dangerous/d1xecmk

    47. Theta Sigma 7 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Wait...
      Are you suggesting Elite: Dangerous is doomed?

      PS how did you get on with the quiz you just buried with copypasta?

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

    48. Oldschool Shadowrunner 7 days ago

      "kendrone
      11 days ago
      Most of what the game has to offer, has nothing to offer. Let's break down what currently exists in the game:
      Mining You go to a specific kind of location known as Pristine Metallic rings. Go anywhere else and you'll get the same content but worse payout, so no choice. You point at a random rock, nothing visible between them. Fire limpet, check readout for a high value of the three P's (the most valuable material), and then mine it - that is, point a laser or two at it for a minute - whilst limpets scoop it.
      NOTHING changes. No real exploration for gold mines, no functional incentive to mine anything other than premium metals.
      Exploration Jump to new system. D-Scan tells you of presence of celestials in system. Point ship at chosen celestials within invisible range for unspecified time until reward chime sounds. Visually, sweet naff all happens. Mechanically, sweet naff all thinking happens.
      Bounty Hunting Head to (static) high concentration of random pirates. Shoot them up. This is one of the most versatile as you can get some very dumb, and some kinda smart, NPC. You can also choose what equipment to use in some decent variety, with different mechanics and limitations.
      Trading Take the most expensive cargo from cheap source, to expensive buyer. Never mind the "demand" and "supply" columns, with the exception of rare goods, you can fill pretty much any hold at any location, and it'll still be good for trade tomorrow. There's NO reason to purchase stuff from 95% of the market, because the margins are meaningless when the most expensive item has the highest per-volume margin invariably.
      Missions Fly A-B. Fly A-B holding this. Find something at market and bring it back to A. Find something in randomly generated space instance and bring it back to A.
      Don't want to move stuff around? Okay, fly to B, attempt to kill this really powerful, cheating AI. Want something easier? Kill 5 literal idiots.
      It gets worse in that it taunts you with lots of missions that you simply cannot do for a long while yet, whilst listing very few attainable missions (many of which will pay basically nothing. I got offered one for 762 Credits, when the ship I was presently sat in cost over 20 million).
      Surface stuff -- Missions Fly randomly, pick up instanced object, return. OR Fly to B, shoot/hack barely specified target, whilst dealing with dumb AI. Return.
      Surface stuff -- Not Missions Here's a rock. You can make ammo. Here's a rock. You can make fuel. Here's a rock. You can make slightly better ammo that only you can use, once. Here's some gold, the first thing you can actually sell. That'll be 1 hour of your time please. Shit, the game managed to make 6 free tons of gold not worth my time.
      The game boils down to 95% sight seeing and visuals (which it them manages to screw up in the sight seeing and visuals profession, see above "Exploration"), with a veneer of a game on top. There's no meaningful choices in trading, or mining, or exploration. There's LITERALLY no substance to rolling around on a planet, unless you invent canyon racing with a bunch of friends.
      If you want money, you need to do some of these very specific, rather imbalanced things. It'll still take you a while, but it's not a 762 credit mission that'll take you 10 minutes in itself (round trip).
      In short, there is no game.
      There's sight seeing, the "oooh, aaah" you get from the earliest of progression, and then you need to grind your arse off in rather restricted means (if you ever intend to get anywhere) to see any change to your ship and existence. Some stuff has so little meaning and value, NPCs won't be seen doing it, nor are they interested in you having done it (such as shooting up a tiny rock on a planet for a chunk of vanadium).
      Wide as and ocean, deep as a puddle.
      But if you've got this far and still think there's something to redeem it...
      User Interface Because the best way to lay out almost 100 points of interest is to make one giant list that you can but scroll through. THANKFULLY, after much time, they finally implemented a filter, so you can choose to see only certain categories in this bastard system list, such as "Stars" and "Stations" and "Planets you can land on."
      The market however, and ship outfitting, still use a gloriously long list of everything. In outfitting you can sort by Name, Price, Class, Rating... but can you sort into Categories?? "Hi, I'd like a shield generator" "Okay cool, here's everything you could possibly fit into that slot." "What about just a size 6 shield generator? Ugh, sort by class." "Here's everything that is class 6, followed by 5, foll-" "I want a shield generator." "Scroll!" -_-
      NPC Communication "PREPARE TO BE SPACE DUST" Says the novice ranked npc in a tiny ship, interdicting your giant gunboat that spends more on ammunition than they do on existing. NPC's are morons, from start to finish. Alternate mission givers offer pitiful amounts; cops will ignore everything else and hunt you down for the equivalent bounty of a dropped penny; Pirates will engage vastly stronger ships suicidally; NPC's scanning you will also ram you (to their deaths). And that's the end of the communication too, you can't say sorry, you can't bribe, you can't do anything but shoot/run.
      Multiplayer The best way to ensure that people will let themselves lose a fight is to make it P2P - said no one ever. Combat logging has always been a thing, there's no means for permanent player construction, there's all manner of difficulty just joining your friends, and the whole system just leads to one bad experience after another.
      Background Simulation... is so background, you can barely touch it. Run as many missions as you like - without concerted effort from a larger group of players, you'd be lucky to affect anything. Moreover, the effect you can have is generally trivial!
      It's a game with a bad interface, a bad multiplayer, bad NPCs, most "professions" are dull to the point that you have seen everything of note in no time, progression balancing is completely whack, and even the masters of the grind still take forever.
      All this culminates into saying:
      There is no game.
      (To FD Devs, should any of you ever read this scathing and dissatisfied personal viewpoint, I'd like to say a couple things directly. The artwork is absolutely stellar (pun intended), and the premise very enticing. I have had some measure of fun with Elite... but most of my time spent has ended up being doing something in the hopes that I'd find where you hid the fun. It has been great to throw a ship around some rocks, blasting a few pirates; but as soon as the initial thrill is over, there's no game left. Games have dynamic challenges; real, tangible goals; visible effects; meanings; and balanced rewards. I've not felt that, with half the game having so little reward it is actually without progression. You've made a very interesting Sim, but I was hoping to buy a game.)
      "
      https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4e61fr/what_went_wrong_elite_dangerous/d1xng0b

    49. Theta Sigma on April 21

      'Things Kickstarter Backers Say About... Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen'
      .
      .
      Can *you* guess the Kickstarter campaign from the comment alone? No cheating! %^]
      .
      .
      1. "I just want what they promised at the beginning."

      2. "...a con trick. An empty shell pretending to be a game."

      3. "This is absolutely the worst way I've been treated by any company, on Kickstarter and off."

      4. "This project will go down in history as the worst crowdfunding disaster of all time."

      5. "You will forever be remembered as another kickstarter failure."

      6. "Your attempts to rewrite the history of the shambolic project are getting well out of hand."

      7. "The single-player thing that most backers don't even care about"

      8. "Another feature has been dropped..."

      9. "You can find plenty of other people online complaining about that same justification to refuse refunds via email"

      10. "They stopped giving refunds a while ago."

      11. "I just can't bring myself to recommend this unfinished, bug infested game to anyone."

      12. "Kickstarter should step in and proceed with legal action. Promised features have been cut from the project... This is against Kickstarter rules."

      13. "I will keep doing what I can to make sure they lose far more in missed sales opportunities than they got from me."

      14. "I sent a similar message to Kickstarter and they also haven't been bothered to even reply to it."

      15. "Please. this doesn't even qualify as an alpha"

      16. "Just doing my civil duty and making sure they don't screw anyone else. Good Karma."

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