Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
@Alien because of the core design. They want to simulate and run a dynamic universe but I do see your point Alien. I was never scared when I saw single player but when I first saw no star dreamer I got suspicious and when I read the DRM thing in the FAQ I also got worried as it was not specific but now we know you will need some kind of sync in SP as well.
They might change it I don't know remember Michael said it would be hard but NOT impossible so there is hope for SP still. So long as we have no connection required indefinitely. :-)
@DB (or Michael?) woo-hoo - looking forward to it :)
@DB You've probably gathered that most of us trust you entirely whatever you do. But it'd be nice to have some answers to the questions that keep going round this morning - if only so we can stop gonig on about them. Even if it's a simple 'We haven't decided yet' or 'We don't know' or 'We understand your concern but think an evolving universe is of paramount importance' or 'we'll have a vote for the first stretch goal and pure SP will be one of them'.
@Joerg Not so much unreliable (which does happen) but many people travel and even in locations with no internet so having to connect is a deal breaker.
@Joerg - It is like that for me, I have broadband landline and am connected 24/7. I get so used to it, that when it's not there, I suffer.
If Elite Dangerous has "updates" that affect the single player game, it won't affect me too much, I may even like it, but I still want to play the game if I am in the situation where I have no internet for some reason.
On the topic of griefing, this has already been covered by DB
They will implement a system of bounties and penalties to players griefing others below them
Congrats to @Michael for showing up today! I'd have thrown a sickie!
A lot of negativity here today, and much consternation about the offline play aspect. I must say though, if I wanted a space trading game with an online centralised universe that I had to log in to play, I'd play EVE. This is starting to sound like EVE with planetary landings and fly-by-wire. I'm sure that's not the case though - would be nice if FD would just clarify it for the doubters.
@Harry DB said they have "griefing" under control it is in one of the videos. :-)
@Associat0r Well at the moment I am willing to give Frontier the benefit of the doubt that they will make a great game out of this but it definitely is going to be completely different from all that has gone before with probably only a semblence of the old style of gameplay. Whether that will prove to be a great thing or its complete downfall remains to be seen....but anyway I dont want to keep harping on about this stuff so I hope DB is going to release a good solid answer to all this stuff via the FAQ or update their main page to make it a heck of a lot clearer.
@All : Good morning.
About SP, I think there must be a SP totally offline, just in case of internet connection issue And a SP with sync. The solution could be a choice just before starting a new game, something like : SP offline or SP online.
@Drew Exactly! That is the main reason that I want SP. Griefing. At the start of this campaign I was all for MP, but I'm finding myself leaning more towards Sp now. Even here, in this comments section, when someone posts an opinion that is not popular with others they are immediately labelled as being negative. I really can't see it being any different in the MP universe and so MP for me, will probably not happen.
@Associat0r the loss of star dreamer was a big hint for me that single player will be online as well BECAUSE if it were offline star dreamer would not make any difference because the universe is completely on your HD :-) so it was a sign from way back.
Sorry for offending anyone - I wasn't aware of the fact that unreliable Internet connections are still so widespread. For me it's so normal to be connected at any time, connection problems are limited to a few hours per year or so (normal private DSL connection).
The last 10 days we had appr. 7000GBP each day, If we go on like this the next 20 days we will have 840,000GBP and appr. 17,500 backers and 4 days to go! So we would need 410,000 GBP for the last 4 days ! We would at that point need 17500 backers to add 23GBP to get ED founded! Shoulry nor everyone can do this. If 50% can raise we need 47GBP.... this will be an interesting race until the end!
I really am beginning to suspect you are a bit of a troll.....
Looking back at your comments you are near enough consistantly arguementative, confrontational, negative etc etc
How about contributing with something a bit more constructive than the constant bitching you come out with?
The simple question is, Why can't Frontier make a single player, offline game first, and a multiplayer, online game second?
@Nats - You could just think of the lack of stardreamer as a law against stardreamer devices in the future, also there are plenty of ways to make seamless planetary landings work without it in a reasonable timeframe, IMO I'm glad stardreaming is gone for normal gameplay, it always felt like a crutch to me, and ruined the game since the most efficient way of playing FE2 and FFE was with autopilot and full time accel, also managing the stardreamer in manual control was annoying.
@Drew None of that stuff is unavailable in a single player offline game. Take Skyrim as a perfect example of how people can lose themselves on a fully formed fluid interesting world that is completely offline. The only thing you are getting in this new game that wasnt there before is playing against or with real people. And that can be done as with the SC model so that it doesnt affect the single player. I feel that the ability to speed up the world is such as massive part of Frontier gameplay is a massive blow tog et rid of that - it will affect loads of the game. It will in effect be a completely different game from those older games. I dont think many people actually still realise that yet, I have just awoken to that fact myself I think.
@B1deano the answer is very simple it is because it is a deal breaker for so many people this is why pledges have been withdrawn since they saw the FAQ saying single player needs sync as well.
All Frontier need to do is say something like this and it is all fixed.
"In single player you have the option to sync and receive updates but if you choose not to you will be missing out on important updates and extras but you will always be able to play offline indefinitely. Updates and syn are totally YOUR choice in singleplayer"
voila SOLVED....IF we get something crystal like that. :-)
Choice is great but companies often want to keep their hands untied in the early stages.
We will see.
FD.. someone get in here.. NOW! :D
The whole point about this ks is its a gamble. During the next year there will be many developments, some of which some people will like, and some of which some other people won't.
Seems daft to me to think about pulling pledges so early based on so little info, and also rather unrealistic to expect every individual concern to be answered. We were starting to get some more info drip feeding through, but our side of the bargain is that we accept these are early ideas and subject to change. I fear the recent frenzy might discourage further engagement from the fd side...
Sad to hear this probably won't have offline play. In Australia if you move house it can often take up to a month to get connected to the internet. Plus I've heard of people in the army and the like who often don't have internet access at all. I don't want to use my pledge as ransom (I respect a creator's vision more than my own convenience) but I'd like to voice my strongest possible objection.
@Drew Complete opposite. SP offline permanently for me.
"...I intend to represent the view of the Oolite community inparticular..."
You represent? Seriously, are you aware what kind of a shitty system this is?!
Many devs are able to think of certain design, make polls, filter and have a look at great ideas their community comes up with without having some money representatives. Sorry, but this is ridiculous and if you would have some knowledge about game dev then you would probably know this.
I know that, the point I was making is that it is a choice, much like how I envision the synching issue to be with ED
@Jason No but it is doable. :-)
Using windows without ever doing an update, not a great idea.
@Jason Some would say that is a pretty fundamental aspect plus it is DRM free. Forcing online sync or update is fundamentally a form of DRM whether it is intentional as such or for "improving" the player experience.
Faith at this stage is not something I can hope for. No ifs buts maybes or hope.....crunch time approaches and people need answers. :-)
Regarding the SP/MP Thing... I have no desire to get 'griefed' during a meritless massive multiplayer melee (alliteration first thing in the morning!) and I hear those who either have no internet connection, a costly one, an unreliable one, or simply have reservations regarding hooking up to anything else which may affect their solo experience.
On the flip side. This is 2012, not 1995. The internet is here, most folks are online pretty much all the time. I have a 3G mobile and a 20Mbit internet pipe. I *want* a new game to take advantage of these facilities in a smart way, in a way that's appropriate to the audience.
Elite the single player game will be ok, but I don't want it limited by this rather (IMHO) parochial view of game playing. DB has talked about balance, anti griefing strategy and the possibilities this provides. That sounds way more exciting to me than *just* a procedurally generated universe - we know that can't avoid being 'samey' over time.
I don't want 'FFE' with 2012 spec graphics and a bit more dogfighting. That's all the single player would be.
I want more. I want to make my mark on the universe and potentially affect other players by trashing a trade route, getting a price on my head, starting a war between two planets and generally mixing it up out there in space.
Why wouldn't you want this?
I rekon Frontier themselves have not really decided yet how connected the product is going to be and if they are to do online verification each time even for SP to stop program theft. Could well be they will not decide till way after the kickstarter. Probably they do not want to commit themselves at this stage.
Simply have faith, and rather than pulling out go for the remaining 20 pound tiers, surely 20 pounds is worth a go, even if things do not end up quite the way you want.
@Alien, fair enough, but a better comparison would have been UBISOFT and BattleNet rather than Steam given the online only discussion, not pre-requisite software which is a different concern.
Really I think enough has been said about this MP/SP issue, lets just wait and see shall we?
I am still a firm believer that it will not force synch/updates
Take windows updates for example. You can choose to never update if you dont want. Windows doesnt stop working does it? You may just not get the full experience others are because of it
True its conjecture on my part there, but that is how I see it happening. Only time will tell, but for people's sanity can we stop this ping pong on here about it?!
Its been going on since about 9pm last night
Firstly Frontier need to end all the controversy now and release a statement that says - 'If you play as single player without syncing at all you will miss out on the following elements of the game.....' If they dont do that we are in real danger of this project sinking due to people dropping out because they fear that they wont be able to play this game in single player and have fun.
Secondly I am very frustrated that there can be only real time play in this new game due to the multiplayer requirement and I also think there will be a lot of people turned off by that aspect as well once they find out that they wont be able to play this game the way they played Frontier or FFE. I think Frontier should seriously reconsider the whole multiplayer aspect of the game if its not too late. But I do think that this is the type of game DB wants to make and he is going to stick to his guns whether it ruins this game for a lot of old fans or not. That is unfortunate.
Either way we need a well considered reply to both of these aspects asap please.
At the moment I am seriously trying to decide whether this game will be the kind of game I will want to play because I already will have SC for cool ships, combat, missions and mutliplayer as well. I always saw Frontier as providing something different and this new game isnt providing that.
In fact I am wondering just what this game is actually now going to provide that is so different to SC, other than the planetary landings which you wont want to do because of the enforced real time play. Well either that or they will be so cut down to make them go faster that they will be completely unrealistic. And of course there may be a realistic orbital mechanics etc but, again due to real time play, you wont experience any of that because it will all be unnoticable.
So I am getting a few concerns that I would like answered please DB.
@Styggron - I thought you were living in the future ... YOU LIE !!!!
You're actually living in the past .... :p
(I'm teasing you :p)
For SP it's not just the connection issue, it's how the MP/SP universe can be manipulated by players. It might be a big universe, but you can be sure people will be looking to exploit it and influence it. Over time this could make it a very difficult place for new commanders who weren't playing at release.
@Knarffin - I know, but I object to being forced to run a program in the background just so I can play a game.
I'd rather install the game, and play it with no other program needing to be running.
@Alien same here with the exception of 2-3 months + with no internet. and yes if I saw that word "Steam" I would have withdrawn immediately. However unlike you, I will only wait till Dec 5th.
@Alien I agree 100%. I have Active Sky2012 for my flight sim installed and it MUST connect to a server. This has been plagued by problems with the server being offline. The software simply does not run. No big deal really as it's just a small addon. I can still fly but without all the reallistic weather. What happens when it's not just an addon though?
@Alien: But as he stated you might miss out if its only SP, but i agree with you.. it should be available as an option.
@Alien, Steam allows you to play games offline after the initial activation if the game supports it.
@Morten that will be for certain. So long as we can get through some hurdles I have no doubt of that.
@Alien: I trust in DB that he will make that possible.. all in all i really trust DB to make this a legendary experience :)
@Iain even forced weekly updates would not work for when some people are away from internet for long periods. This is why you need to say "indefinite periods" not "extended periods". This then does not put a limit on how long you can stay offline. It is as simple as you can staff offline as much as you like and never forced to update/sync unless you choose too :-)
*Still play the game ....
darn typos :p
There is a problem with paying to be a design forum member, you risk losing good ideas from the impecunious. Unfortunately you do have to control the number of people able to submit ideas, simply in order to manage it effectively.
This should be done on a meritocracy of course, but there is no way to do that I can think of, so 'money talks' is the only viable alternative.
I intend to represent the view of the Oolite community inparticular, and i imagine other folks pledged at higher tiers will be happy to take ideas and opinions into the design forum.
Why am I supporting offline SP mode?
A couple of times there has been a "network fault" (Virgin Media's words, not mine)
and I have been without internet for 3-4 days at a time
I'd like Elite Dangerous to run completely offline so that if I have to go 3-4 days with no internet again, I can still lay the game.
What would it take for me to pull my pledge for this game?
Always online like Diablo 3 and Steam only.
And I fear I'll only find out it's like that 12 - 18 months from now.
Really need edit button here...
DBs innovation is what we're backing here, so steady on people.
@Joerg: Yup.. no one is forcing you to play multiplayer as i se it as i understood it, they wrote that you could invite people to play with, but were not forced to play multiplayer in that sense. If meaning we get a more vibrant galaxy because of net connection im all for it.