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Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
25,681 backers pledged £1,578,316 to help bring this project to life.

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    1. Creator Theta Sigma less than a minute ago

      @Wyzak

      "I'm sure we could find just as many if not more of your predictions that did not come through, but at the rate that you are churning out your propaganda - ain't nobody got time for that."

      1. "I'm sure we could find just as many if not more..."

      Exactly how _sure_ of this are you?

      Are you as sure as you were on Nov 28 2014 when you predicted that E:D would be "F2P in 6 months to a year - 60% certainty, F2P within 2 years - 90% certainty." https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments
      (...yet another shown-to-be-false Wyzak-prediction to add to the 'List of 8' :)

      ...or are you as sure as you were on 2nd May when you stated: "Meanwhile on the Steam charts, it's not looking good - still losing momentum." ...despite the current Last 30 days Average (2 months on from your claim :) at an all-time-high of 4969.
      Objectively, that's at least "good" and certainly not a loss of "momentum"

      2. If I really am churning out "propaganda" (in the sense of untrue statements or predictions) at a high "rate", then it should be _extremely_ easy for you to find evidence of incorrect predictions - if you are having difficulty locating such untrue statements or predictions, then perhaps you should consider the possibility that the reason that the statements and predictions tend to be true.

      3. You ain't got time for that(?)
      That might be believable, except for the fact that you've clearly got enough time to still be posting futile and incorrect statements here more than six months after refunds were issued...

      4. The reason I even know about the existence of the 'List of 8' is that each time one of those 8 predictions was made I seriously assessed each one objectively, and in my considered opinion, refuted each one at the time, often presenting evidence as to why I thought the original claim to be untrue or unlikely to be proven true with time.

      With that in mind, and given that each one of the 8 claims has been proven untrue with the passage of time, let's look at the current tally from those 8 failed predictions, alone:

      [+1 for a prediction that transpired to be undeniably true with the benefit of hindsight]
      [-1 for a prediction that transpired to be undeniably false with the benefit of hindsight]

      Theta Sigma: +8

      Wyzak: -8

      You are welcome to try to claw your way back to a semblance of objectivity if you can provide some examples of occasions on which you were correct in a prediction.

      Equally, you are welcome to find concrete examples of predictions I have made that subsequently turned out to be untrue.
      You might find it quite difficult though, since:
      i) the vast majority of my predictions turned out to be true :)
      ii) most of what you object to in my posts tend to be statements of fact I have made regarding the currently available indepedent statistics rather than wild hypothesising borne of wishful thinking

      Remember, I have already made one concrete, objectively verifiable prediction for this month:

      3rd August 2015
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      "August 2015 'Average Players' will further increase upon July's result in the range +5 to +15%
      i.e. 5,158 < August 2015 Avg. Players < 5,649"

      I'm happy to wait, and happy to stand by that prediction.

      However, here's a challenge for you in demonstrating your objectivity and ability to read the situation:

      You are more than welcome to match this claim with an objectively verifiable prediction of your own.

      Please note: "predictions" that involve reasoning such as "Clearly everyone thinks..." and "Obviously it is the case..." won't cut it - Stick to objectively assessible facts using, for example, "independently verifiable information" and "accurate metrics" from a "representative sample of the whole community" (your words) if you can/dare...

      Good luck!

      %^]

    2. Creator Wyzak about 2 hours ago

      @deusx_ophc - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… - Ag please man. Take some responsibility for your own words.

      @theta sigma - I'm sure we could find just as many if not more of your predictions that did not come through, but at the rate that you are churning out your propaganda - ain't nobody got time for that.

    3. Creator deusx_ophc about 4 hours ago

      first pic from #edgc15 from DB himself - link via FDEV forum

      https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php…

    4. Creator deusx_ophc about 7 hours ago

      @wyzak i only know of circle jerks, an oldschool us punkrock band. their logo is anything but what you suggest and i wasn't actually aware of the erm... "sexual practice".

      basically they showed a guy pogoing in a circle as you do, repeatedly. which is what has been happening here for many many many many moons. a few guys (aka us) going around and around and around on the same topic with ever the same arguments ad nauseam.

      and all the while FDEV have delivered with ED a great gaming experience with incredible technical features (VR, 4K, 16K! etc) that is continuously developed and updated, enjoys an amazing community and is about to make another leap *crosses fingers*

    5. Creator Theta Sigma about 7 hours ago

      @Wyzak

      The issue you keep missing, and the fundamental difference between your predictions and my predictions, is that the majority of my predictions have become fact, as the passage of time is my witness.

      Yours? Not so much (if at all)

      I would respectfully suggest that the reason my predictions tend to align with reality more than yours (evidence amply available in the comments) is that one of us is being objective about the situation, the other, perhaps clouded by wishful thinking?

      See 'List of 8'

    6. Creator Wyzak about 7 hours ago

      @theta sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… - another direct question ignored. You truly are good at doing that.

      As to my post, it was in response to this post from deusx_ophc - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… - how respectful is it that deusx_ophc called this comments section a "circle jerk"? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php…

      Nobody is stopping you from reporting any posts here, so knock yourself out. It's an expression; before you say I'm saying that you should assault yourself.

      Your supposed summary posts are truly entertaining. Maybe if you repeat it often enough it will become fact. Now where did I hear that before?

      Shall we hold a count of how many posts have been deleted and use that as a gauge for who isn't being respectful or considerate?

    7. Creator deusx_ophc about 7 hours ago

      @Theta Sigma well since you are asking it is RAINING LIKE WOAH right now =) but sol is back in business for the next 2-3 days.

      @wyzak @oldschool shadowrunner i personally do not mind anyone speaking in their habitual language. however, since this is such a public comments section and kickstarter rightfully remind everyone to behave respectfully i should probably support kickstarter in their efforts.

    8. Creator Theta Sigma about 8 hours ago

      @deusx_ophc, hey man, how's Cologne? Sol still... er... 'solling'? :)

      Incidentally...

      Wyzak on 11th December 2014 (two months prior to my first post)

      "@deusx_ophc - once again thank you for providing extra motivation for those who are looking for refunds. It's attitudes like yours' that cause people to want to play offline in their own little worlds unaffected by the idiots on the Internet."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Now that _certainly_ isn't friendly, respectful or considerate.
      Wyzak denigrates deusx_ophc's attitude, and furthermore strongly implies that he is an idiot.

      This sort of language has been rife from Wyzak and Oldschool Shadowrunner throughout:

      Oldschool Shadowrunner on 25th April 2015
      "@Theta Sigma: Whining, complaining and screaming harassment because you are losing an argument is pathetic. I believe Mrs. Sarah Cook once said "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Cheers & see you in few days."
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      You hear/read that deusx_ophc?
      Wyzak and Oldschool Shadowrunner, on separate occasions (one prior to our first interaction on here) seem to think/imply independently that we're idiots.

      Perhaps an email to the Kickstarter admins might be prudent?

      After all, we wouldn't want Wyzak to be seen to be transgressing the very rules that he (superficially at least) seems so very keen on upholding for others, would we? Some might call that somewhat hypocritical behaviour.

      But then, as Wyzak was apparently a member of the Elite Dangerous Refunds Group and yet failed to report their immoral Metacritic voting practices, whilst simultaneously accusing Frontier (without evidence) of the self-same behaviour in posts to this comments section, Reddit and who-knows-elsewhere, his reputation as a paragon of virtue would already seem to be in tatters.

      Oh, and... @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      As to the "losing an argument" regarding whether Elite:Dangerous is failing or not:
      See 'List of 8'

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

    9. Creator deusx_ophc about 8 hours ago

      ahh it is alive!

      i was worried a little bit when no propaganda was forthcoming for nearly 2 days ^^

    10. Creator Theta Sigma about 9 hours ago

      @Wyzak

      Presumably you hope that if you keep saying that I'm a Frontier employee enough time then it might become fact?

      This is not how reality works.

      Similarly, continually making deliberately pessimistic predictions about the fortunes of Elite:Dangerous will not make these predictions become reality.

      PS

      Steam Summer Sale occurs every year.
      Perhaps you should research your predictions a bit better before making wild claims.

    11. Creator Wyzak about 10 hours ago

      Pray tell how anybody who isn't employed by FDEV would be able to take discounts which haven't yet been announced into account?

    12. Creator Theta Sigma about 12 hours ago

      @Wyzak

      "Obviously any predictions on what the future player numbers for the game will be dependant on the status quo staying the same. If a stimulus is introduced that shakes up the status quo then the predictions will be affected ie. discounts and free steam keys."

      i.e. _exactly_ the same scenario as for any game that exists - no game on Steam exists without new stimuli being introduced; updates, expansions, promotions, discounts, SteamKeys released, in-game events etc. etc. etc.

      Polite suggestion: Try to at least make an attempt to take these stimuli into account when you make your "predictions" and you might find that your predictions are more accurate, and furthermore you won't feel the need to complain that your predictions are so inaccurate or else attempt to make excuses for your poor predictions after the fact, when reality and the passage of time kicks in.

      Bottom-line: the information I used in my predictions was freely available, and we all have access to the same information, it's just that some people are better at assessing this objectively than others.

    13. Creator Wyzak about 12 hours ago

      That isn't necessarily the case. In personal experience I hadn't played the game for several weeks, but when I activated my Steam key I updated the game and tried it out for a bit to see what had changed.

    14. Creator Theta Sigma about 12 hours ago

      @Wyzak

      "...the downward trend was bucked by the free steam keys..."

      Reality check: SteamKeys represent non-Steam-purchasers, long-term players of the game dating from original release on 16th December 2014 all the way up to 2nd April 2015

      You completely miss the point that the addition of their numbers "bucks the downward trend"

      Think about it:
      These players are _still_ playing the game in large numbers more than six months since release - if they had been able to redeem SteamKeys from the very beginning, the downward trend would have been proportionately far smaller and potentially non-existent since these players racked up huge amounts of game-time over many months prior to SteamKey Release Day that Steam does not report.

    15. Creator Wyzak about 13 hours ago

      The June figures were affected by the release of the Steam keys to all of the website and kickstarter backers. There was also a 25% sale.

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…
      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Theta sigma: "Furthermore, since free Steam Keys were issued for Elite:Dangerous, the player numbers have bucked the downward trend that most games follow, and have risen to the same proportion of the original 1st week peak as GTAV experienced after only 2 weeks on the charts."

      Even you admit in this post that the downward trend was bucked by the free steam keys...

      Obviously any predictions on what the future player numbers for the game will be dependant on the status quo staying the same. If a stimulus is introduced that shakes up the status quo then the predictions will be affected ie. discounts and free steam keys.

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      I'm yet to see a game that was "tacticly voted" or "bombed" that didn't do some injustice to it's users ie. if you give people a reason to be pissed off they will react accordingly.

      btw Theta Sigma, it's more useful to link to the post above the post that was deleted otherwise you only see the previous conversation and you don't even see the "comment has been removed by kickstarter". ie https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      That makes it number 3 now? Might I suggest you try to be respectful and considerate?

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      Kerrash has a clear conflict of interest then which nullifies his opinion.

      @theta sigma - yes it is true, no backer of the game can be truly objective. However there are different degrees to this. Somebody who stands to lose his house if FDEV goes belly up isn't quite in the same boat as somebody who only stands to lose access to the game he spent GBP 30 on. You are still sidestepping the issue, are you or a close family member working for FDEV? Do you or a close family member own shares or futures in FDEV? Your continuous refusal to answer these questions can only mean one thing.

      @deux_ophc - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… and this is the same company who said that they would release a DRM free version of the game. Which they didn't. So if they've not been truthful once, why should we believe them going forward? It has also been mentioned before that if the company does go belly up the game will be tied up in the legal process, and they wouldn't be allowed to simply give it away for free when some of the creditors might be able to recover some money from selling it to somebody else...

      Quadruple post by theta sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments…

      @theta sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… so then he should not have punted the game as DRM free and with offline mode. He created this situation.

      @theta sigma - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/comments… - how is that average curve looking from the 28th of June to the 4th of August?

    16. Creator Theta Sigma 1 day ago

      @Wyzak

      Wyzak on 1st August
      "Last 30 days is now only +0.41%"

      Correction:

      Last 30 days is now +1.48%

      i.e. 3.6-fold increase in 2 days

      Also, Last 30 days Average Players is at an all-time high of 4,986

      I do wonder how CQC, 1.4 and Gamescom announcement will affect that.

      My prediction:

      August 2015 'Average Players' will further increase upon July's result in the range +5 to +15%

      i.e. 5,158 < August 2015 Avg. Players < 5,649

      Happy to wait.

    17. Creator Theta Sigma 1 day ago

      @deusx_ophc

      Have a great time, and keep us (regularly) updated :)

    18. Creator deusx_ophc 1 day ago

      @all happy monday morning !

      looks like sol is pulling out all the stops to shine on cologne this week. 33°C celsius expected by for thurs/friday *eeek*

      hopefully FDEVs lay on some iced drinks - *nudge nudge wink wink*

    19. Creator Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Come on, I know you're itching to tell me how the scenario I've painted isn't remotely realistic and nothing like it would have happened, and a DRM-free offline mode would have (somehow) made billions for Frontier and everything would have been a bed of roses...

    20. Creator Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      typo correction (before you 'call me out' on it :)

      I'll add that one to the "list of ultra-long-game predictions made by ex-backers that failed to become reality"

    21. Creator Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      "The irony is that people will be playing Elite 1984 in fifty years time keeping that memory alive, when Elite Dangerous is long forgotten."

      Thanks.

      I'll add that one the to "list of ultra-long-game predictions made ex-backers that failed to become reality"

    22. Creator Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Let me paint an alternative scenario for you, based upon your conjecture surrounding Frontier's accounts, and including aspects of the actual history of this project:

      1. Frontier cave-in to demands of a few hundred offline-zealots and decide to release DRM-free offline-only mode as well as always-online (DRM-free off-liners are initally ecstatic)
      2. Frontier misses the original planned release date and various other planned release dates
      (...this _actually_ happened, remember, and was complained about, A LOT)
      3. Due to the extra dev work required to release _both_ versions, the delays in 2. are even greater than they actually were, in this current reality.

      ....aaaaaand: increasingly vocal demands from both always-onliners and DRM-free off-liners lead to severe negativite publicity for Frontier.

      "They've _never_ released anything on time!"
      "This is worse than when they were producing for a third-party publisher!"
      "I hate Braben! He's raped my childhood!"
      "Where's the game I funded! WAAAAAAAAAAA!"
      "Braben's stolen my heard-earned dough!"
      etc. etc. etc.

      4. Due to 3. Frontier rush out even-more-incomplete-than-we-actually-got always-online _and_ DRM-free offline-version.
      5. Immediate slew of complaints come in about how unfinished and placeholder _both_ versions of the game are.
      "This is way worse than First Encounters!"
      "I hate Braben/Frontier/everything!"
      "I want a refund!"
      "I demand a refund!"
      etc. etc. etc.

      6. The DRM-nature of the offline version leads to CMDR L337 H4x0r and friends disseminating their own mod versions of Elite:Dangerous - procedurally-engineered galaxy IP also backward-engineered and disseminated throught teh interwebs.
      7. Always-online players increasingly dissatisfied with skeletal-like nature of the unfinished game due to Frontier dividing their efforts between two versions.
      8. Frontier updates to offline mode become increasingly pointless since each update has IP/algorithms that are immediately backward engineered and incorporated by hackers and/or competitors.
      9. More and more mods and servers of hacked DRM-free offline release start to appear.
      10. Frontier run out of cash due to huge move away by core user-base from always-online mode - income-stream dries up (remember, you said yourself they didn't have enough cash right at the start anyway)
      11. Frontier fold.
      12. Hacked versions of DRM-free mode proliferate, Elite:Dangerous mods become hugely popular, and all off the back of Frontier's IP which they essentially gave away to the community due to a few hundred offline-zealots being very vocal when Frontier suggested dropping offline-mode.

      Conclusion:

      Frontier made the correct decision from an IP and business-perspective.

      The views of ~100s of DRM-free offliners <<< earning potential from 100,000s of purchasers + retaining IP and company prospering

    23. Creator deusx_ophc 2 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner
      and again you let every argument bypass that you do not like and instead keep making statements that are simply false.

      FDEV have stated that in the event that their servers would ever close down they would release the code.

      in short, you get to play your offline game once the game is done & dusted. so in another 30 years by my counting ^^

    24. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 2 days ago

      @Theta Sigma a.k.a. Frontier Developments plc
      "As a backer of this Kickstarter, by definition, my original (and continuing) aim was (and is) to see this project succeed."
      .
      I'll translate that for you. You want to delay the inevitable day upon which FD turns of the servers and the game dies.
      .
      "Success" for this project became meaningless on the day of Braben's switcheroo last year. The day when having taken as much money as he could on false pretences of selling a game people could play forever on their own computers, Braben announced he was instead going to rent you a game that relies on his computers. When he's run out of people to con into "buying" the game, he'll turn off the servers, and your game will die.
      .
      The irony is that people will be playing Elite 1984 in fifty years time keeping that memory alive, when Elite Dangerous is long forgotten.

    25. Creator Theta Sigma 2 days ago

      @Wyzak

      "@Theta Sigma - "we can get back to the current, objective facts about Elite:Dangerous." - it can only be objective once you have shown that you don't have a conflict of interest."

      Your statement does display incredible irony, and I reckon unintentionally so...

      Would you say that:

      1. Your repeated attempts, over a period of many months, to dissuade people from purchasing Elite:Dangerous, questioning everything about the game, the company, its directors etc. are completely and utterly objective?

      2. Your motives for continually posting one-sided "observations" of many and varied aspects of this project often completely unrelated to the offline decision are in some way related to your reaction to the offline decision?

      If your motives are anything other than objectivity in 1. (and the concrete evidence of your many failed predictions does indeed strongly support the view that you are _not_ being objective) then, in fact, it is you who has the clear conflict of interest.

      Conversely, as an original backer of this Kickstarter, I have no conflict of interest, at all:
      As a backer of this Kickstarter, by definition, my original (and continuing) aim was (and is) to see this project succeed.

      By your reasoning, however, _any_ backer, of _any_ Kickstarter project posting supporting evidence of the success of the project and/or refuting outlandish claims as they occur (and which, with the passage of time turn out to have been completely untrue - see List of 8) apparently has a "conflict of interest" in wanting to see those projects succeed. (Really?)

      I know from experience that you're quite the fan of questionnaires and surveys.
      With that in mind:

      1. Am I an original backer of Elite:Dangerous?
      Yes.

      2. Do I still support the project?
      Yes.

      3. Does this imply that I have a vested interest in the project?
      Only if all Kickstarter backers have similarly "vested" interests.

    26. Creator deusx_ophc 2 days ago

      @el_tel
      hehe, excellent! all i got to was a few lines assembler and peek & pokes. there was also, distant memory, some turbo pascal?! somehow being digital native passed by me :/

    27. Creator el_tel 2 days ago

      @deusx_ophc
      I wrote a legendary and landmark gaming title - It was called Pest Spray and was published in Sinclair Programs :)

      It took me ages to write because there were around 100 lines of BASIC code.

    28. Creator deusx_ophc 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner
      yeah we all have written a few legendary and landmark gaming titles, while running our own public company. and of course raspberry pi - pi in the sky right, pffft!

      to you & me that comes easy. we do it all the time.

      but most nights/days we spend on one of these internet sites typing away, really educating people how to do it. because, you know, typing we are kind of good at.

      isn't it ^^

    29. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @deusx_ophc - "Or maybe it is just a Kate herself says One inflammatory sentence pulled out of a three hour chat" Hey I pulled out about half a dozen inflammatory sentences here! If you want any more you'll have to do you're own pulling. :-)
      .
      "from all i have seen they are a very hard working bunch." Yes I agree. That makes it all the more sad that what they've produced is so bad. They really had no idea what they were getting into. They've never managed to finish a big game in the whole histry of the company. Look at First Encounters. Look at Outsider. All they can do for themselves is shallow collections of mini-games for kids. With animals and coasters. So what they did for a space game was a shallow collection of mini-games with animals changed to spaceships and coasters changed to planets. Tragic.

    30. Creator deusx_ophc 3 days ago

      just in case it wasn't clear what poor kate (sry for dragging you into this backwater, it is worse than slough! ) said:

      "I have absolute confidence we’ll still be playing @EliteDangerous a year from now” on 23. June 2015

    31. Creator deusx_ophc 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Or maybe it is just a Kate herself says "One inflammatory sentence pulled out of a three hour chat and used along with my name as a headline to boost some sad attention-seekers upvotes on Reddit doesn’t bother me in the slightest. But I hope the people at Frontier who might have seen that post get to see this one as well. Because they are people who work incredibly hard on something we all feel passionate about. And they are the ones who get my upvote."

      Kerrash is also not on the FDEV payroll. he has been asked by them to promo/demo and no wonder, his enthusiasm for all things elite is infectious. you could use some of that yourself shadowrunner. so kerrash you can expect FDEV paying travel expenses and maybe some compensation, but no salary. he has a job to make a living.

      but i take your point, he will defend them where he can. and why not? from all i have seen they are a very hard working bunch. surely prudent and in fact OLDSCHOOL in their approach but learning fast from being 3rd? party developer to publisher.

      but all this is little to you. you have been let down in a matter so close to your heart and there is little anyone but you can do about this.

      sorry :/

    32. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @deusx_ophc -Yeah, looks like Kate Russell did a u-turn after some serious backlash for saying what she thinks of the poo that is Elite Dangerous. Probably an email storm of hate from the ED fanbois. Here's another quote from her in that discussion: ""A shame a shame I hope David Braben listens to this and maybe goes Oh I've been a bit of a fool really. But I doubt it."
      .
      Ad for that response from Kerrash, don't forget that he works for Frontier.

    33. Creator deusx_ophc 3 days ago

      @Theta Sigma oh damn! thanks for helping out there mate. didn't even notice it before you mentioned it.

      i blame copy & paste ^^

    34. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      If you feel aggrieved and decide to report deusx_ophc for not being respectful or considerate, please bear in mind that Kate Russell's comments were not aimed at anyone in particular but rather "sad attention-seekers" in the general sense.

    35. Creator deusx_ophc 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner and again you are just using your shock & awe style with linking only the "juice" part of what Kate actually said. only in the context that you want to use it.

      as you full well know Kate herself posted various comments on how she has 1) been taken out of context and 2) put the record straight

      anyone that wants to read the full context follow below ^^

      http://katerussell.co.uk/opinion-i-have-absolute-confidence-well-still-be-playing-elitedangerous-a-year-from-now/

      tl:dr

      "One inflammatory sentence pulled out of a three hour chat and used along with my name as a headline to boost some sad attention-seekers upvotes on Reddit doesn’t bother me in the slightest. But I hope the people at Frontier who might have seen that post get to see this one as well. Because they are people who work incredibly hard on something we all feel passionate about. And they are the ones who get my upvote."

    36. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @Wyzak - "So they've dropped the timed exclusive, but with seamingly no mention of it coming to
      other previously unannounced platforms?"
      .
      You got it. A month ago Braben's announcement of the timed exclusive said PS4 would follow. In an interview I saw with him from E3, when asked about PS4 he said "I can't talk about that".

    37. Creator el_tel 3 days ago

      You're right OS, I hadn't checked. Basically because I couldn't be bothered. But this goes to show that not doing the research can lead to trouble. One thing is certain - waiting for the the ofiicial figures in September is the only way of knowing for definate what FD's financial position is, and frankly I couldn't care less what it was in the past.

      Until then, I won't be taking part in any discussions regarding finances because it's just playing your game.

      Have a nice day :)

    38. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @el_tel "I honestly can't be bothered to find the link, but it was mentioned in a relatively recent financial statement that the credit facility with Barclays had been reduced from £4 mil to £1 mil."
      .
      According to the financial statement, the recently mentioned credit facility DID NOT EXIST at the time Frontier was facing bankruptcy before the ED Kickstarter launch.
      .
      In case that's not clear, I am calling bullsh*t on your claim "Remember that at the time, FD had a credit facility of several million pounds ".
      .
      Have a nice day! :-)

    39. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      That should have been "reduced" not "educed" (...before you call me out because the document makes no reference to an "eduction" in the credit facility)

    40. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @el_tel

      ...although, I think it was actually educed from £3 mil to £1 mil

    41. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @el_tel

      Yes. You are correct, it was.
      Similarly, I can't be bothered to provide it for him.
      Perhaps OS should do his research more thoroughly before making unsubstantiated claims. That might go some way to improving his currently dire hit-rate.

    42. Creator el_tel 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      I honestly can't be bothered to find the link, but it was mentioned in a relatively recent financial statement that the credit facility with Barclays had been reduced from £4 mil to £1 mil.

    43. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Objectively, I know we should take each issue/claim independently...

      However, just as a personal observation, your track-record regarding predictions, claims and counter-claims (see: List of 8 failed predictions that were once championed as almost-certainties) it does rather seem as though your chances of debunking anything on here are slim-to-none.

      Anyway, sorry, you were saying?

    44. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @el_tel - "Remember that at the time, FD had a credit facility of several million pounds".
      That would be very naughty, if true, because they failed to declare any such arrangement in the accounts. So what's your source of this info?
      .
      And even if they did have such a facility, how long do you think a mere £3m could have kept Frontier alive, given the rate at which it was burning money. Not very long at all.
      .
      "So the loss for the year before the KS was due to writing down the investment of The Outsider? So how is that relevant exactly? " It is relevant to my debunking of your "claim it COULD have been like this: We have £7 million available to fund development of a new game".

    45. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      "A write down from work in progress of £4,609,196 for the game 'The Outsider'"

      Since 'The Outsider' was intended to be an open-world political thriller set in and around a city, one wonders how much of the £4.6million spent on development might dove-tail into the scheduled ship-roaming and planetary landings.

      It seems unlikely that Frontier trashed the hard-drives when the project was moth-balled/canned.

    46. Creator el_tel 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Actually I was just reading the filings in your link. So the loss for the year before the KS was due to writing down the investment of The Outsider? Thanks for that. It saves me digging through the reports.

      So how is that relevant exactly? (apart from something to include in your conspiracy theory). Remember that at the time, FD had a credit facility of several million pounds (recently reduced voluntarily) so DB was hardly 'staring bankrupcy in the face' as you put it.
      Plus the IPO subsequently bought in several million.

      I think I now know a lot more regarding FDs financial position. Thanks for that.

    47. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @el_tel - "See what I mean when I say ignoring anything that doesn't agree with their view?" I didn't ignore your view about ED funding. Despite that it is complete fantasy. I took the time to show you the truth from Frontier's accounts and point you to the proof.
      .
      Here is a quote to get you started. Official Frontier filings, note. Accounts 2011.
      "
      "We were unable to complete a suitable contract to pubhsh 'The Outsider' game we are developing, and as a result decided to suspend the project for the time being and shift effort to our other projects due to the uncertain timetable for further development and subsequent release of the game, the Directors have dec1ded to take a cautious and prudent approach to the valualton of this game. Therefore we have made a matenal write down down under work in progress for 'The Outsider'.

      A wnte down from work in progress of £4,609,196 for the game 'The Outstder' has been absorbed into the financial year's profit and loss."
      "

    48. Creator el_tel 3 days ago

      See what I mean when I say ignoring anything that doesn't agree with their view?

    49. Creator Theta Sigma 3 days ago

      @Oldschool Shadowrunner

      Anything further to say in your defence of the list of 8 predictions that were relentlessly plugged on here, and yet all failed to transpire? (typos/semantics aside)

    50. Creator Oldschool Shadowrunner 3 days ago

      @el_tel - "Becasue it COULD have been like this: "Right! We have £7 million available to fund development of a new game. I'd love to use that to make a new Elite, but will anyone buy it?"
      .
      Could have been, but wasn't. Frontier had NO money to fund the new Elite which had already been stuck in development hell for ten years. Frontier was in a dire financial state. It had just lost million of pounds on The Outsider due to Codemasters gving up hope of it ever getting finished to a salable quality, and Braben couldn't get any other publisher to take it. Frontier had only enough cash in the bank to pay the salaries for a couple of months. Braben was staring bankruptcy in the face.
      .
      That's when Braben came up with the brilliant idea of conning Elite fans into saving his company.
      .
      Proof is in the company accounts https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02892559/filing-history…

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