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Camelot Unchained is a counter-revolutionary RvR-focused MMORPG from Mark Jacobs and CSE set in a post-apocalyptic yet familiar world.
14,873 backers pledged $2,232,933 to help bring this project to life.

Evening Update April 9, 2013


    So, another good day here at CSE and with our Kickstarter. I’m truly sorry I’ve been a bit pre-occupied the last two days but I’m almost through the interview cycle. I hope that by tomorrow night, I will have talked/emailed with everybody who wants to talk to us (and then we can give their ducks back to them!) and I can focus on our Kickstarter again full-time. In the meantime, I’ve got three bits of info for you all. 

1) Tomorrow afternoon we will have another video update from Andrew. As you know he is building the engine that we will need for Camelot Unchained. He has continued to work on it and his next, but not final update, will show you something almost everybody has asked us for since this first tech update. The update is pretty sweet but focused not on the pretty but on the speed and scalability of the engine. 

2) I’ve included a grab bag of goodness based on questions that I have been asked a lot in comments and via email. 

3) I’ve got my Aloha shirt all ready to go for tomorrow! ☺


Top Ten Questions: Grab bag of goodness 

1) Do you own any other shirt than the same black one you’ve been wearing?

Lots and most of them are black. I hope that when I lose some more weight I can go back to something a little more colorful on a full-time basis. 

 2) While there be a Linux or Mac version of this game? 

Maybe. Because we are growing the engine in house, by the time it reaches adulthood it might not be an easy port to those operating systems. Andrew is going to dig deep down (he’s threatened to write assembly code again) to get us every ounce of speed he can get. That might prevent us from a quick and easy port. OTOH, we won’t know until we are much further along with the engine. 

3) How do you feel about Bufbots?

They don’t belong in Camelot Unchained and we will do our best to make their use a lot more difficult here. There is no way to prevent somebody from having a couple of accounts (unless we want to ban families, spouses, etc. which we aren’t going to do) and running two characters but we are going to go overboard design-wise so you can’t simply park a BB inside a structure and spam heals, buffs, etc. 

4) Why have you chosen a subscription-model? Are you insane? Everything is FTP and should be now and forever! 

a) Because I don’t want to have to support 95% of the server population free of charge, pray that 5% spend a lot of money and then find ways to get a small % of the 95% to spend something; b) Maybe, but I think it is the good kind of insane; c) Check back with me in about 3-5 years. There’s a major storm coming in the FTP space whether people/publishers want to hear it or not (well, it’s not of course). Besides, we will get a tighter community with fewer people who actually really want to play and stick with our game as opposed to a large number of people who are playing until they have to pay or they find a different FTP that interests them. I’ll take lower profits, fewer players, tighter community any day of the week. FYI, I said this same thing before, back when networks like GEnie, AOL, etc. were charging for games and the first “Adver-model games” were supposed to take over the world. 

5) I think you need to give more to the $5 tiers, we’d get so many more people! Why don’t you do that? 

The $5 tier generally does not get a lot of support in any of the game-based Kickstarters that I have looked at (please check out Torment, SoTA, etc.). Even if I was to give them something good (like Beta 3 access) and we did get some additional pledgers, that really wouldn’t help us meet our goals. 

6) Will there be no PvE in the game at all? No NPCs, really? 

There will be NPCs of course (as I’ve stated before) since towns need citizens, structures need guards, crafters need leather, etc. The world won’t be empty but NPCs will not be dropping tokens, items, etc. However, you will be able to scavenge/skin/etc. materials from them of course but again, not items, tokens, etc. There is also a difference between PvE-NPCs (cows) and RvR-NPCs (guards, human or otherwise) but no item or token drops. I also promise that there will not be PvE expansions with new tiers of gear drops that become required to complete. This game is a RvR-focused MMORPG and will remain such. 

7) What’s the death penalty going to be like in Camelot Unchained? 

For battles to be meaningful, I believe that Camelot Unchained needs to have a death penalty that stings a little bit. No perma-death, no corpse looting (there are rewards but that is complicated) but also - no instant rez (rez takes time), no self-rez (even for healers), dead = dead, when dead your body can be burned/magically attacked by the enemy (takes time) or you can release, no item decay on death (use/enemy attack based only), limited bind points (there is a healer + crafter mechanic that can come into play), “rez sickness” like mechanic and last but not least divine intervention. 

 8) When will you release the stretch goals for Camelot Unchained? 

Hopefully Friday. This is a very important part of the campaign and we want to get it right before we talk about it. The obvious goals are well, obvious but the most important short-term stretch goal needs a little more massaging for its presentation. 

9) I can’t find the backer’s forums. Where are they? 

They won’t be opened until after the Kickstarter funds and we can survey our users to get their email addresses. The developer forums are closed to non-backers so email addresses are kind of important in order to give access. 

10) Will there be crowd control in Camelot Unchained? 

Yes, there will definitely be CC in Camelot Unchained and it will play an important role in the game. However, there will also be resists and I’m not looking to implement a system where you can CC a player for a year and a day. There also will be another important part of CC that I’ll discuss in detail in a future update. Like the idea we are kicking around for stealth, it is a little BSC. There will also be a limit on the number of buffs/debuffs on a player as per other postings. 

11) Will there be a hard interrupt system in Camelot Unchained? (bonus question) 

Yes, hard interrupts are confirmed but it won’t be binary. We should apply some common sense to how they are implemented.


    1. Creator Tierless on April 10, 2013


      Nice shirt MJ.

    2. Creator Jason Menear on April 10, 2013

      No Corpse looting is fine with me. Causes way too many opportunities for people to cry lag or oh I DC'd / LD'd.

      Great to hear about hard interrupts and CC.

      Here is to hoping my guild gets back together for this!!

    3. Creator Jeffrey Paquette on April 10, 2013

      I know that no corpse looting will be the likely outcome and I will be fine with it. However, I do urge you and the team to consider even maybe a 1-item pick from a corpse or something of the like or as Shawn has suggested getting the resources. I think that fully crafted item games are perfect candidates for some type of corpse loot as it did take some time to get the materials and create the item but it isn't like the person played 50hours and camped a mob for 3weeks or something ridiculous. At the same time it adds just that much more to pvp/rvr and the whole risk vs reward.

      I have played a couple games of recent that were full loot pvp and it adds an entirely different aspect to the gameplay, battles, pvp and the outcomes. Many times on the looting end and many times on the getting looted end and no matter what the outcome it was always fun.

      Something to consider anyway. And thanks for the continuous updates!

    4. Creator Leenak on April 10, 2013

      I'm really, really hoping for OSX support :)

    5. Creator A Ward on April 10, 2013

      $1Million - where's that gharish shirt!!! It's the only reason I backed...

      I kid, I kid - I can't wait for this game!

    6. Creator boxfetish [Mr. Safety] on April 10, 2013

      regarding the looting of resources or supply chains. me likey! but, it needs to be very carefully balanced so that underpowered/underdog realms don't have their resources and supply lines constantly zerged so that it is impossible to play effectively and that realm just starts bleeding players.

    7. Creator Harry Torque on April 10, 2013

      @Shawn I really like the idea of lootable resources from enemies. Wars are lost and won based on who is able to secure, exploit and move resources. If CU could transfer that to a game environment that would be a victory in itself.

      I believe securing and exploiting of resources is already planned for the game, ie. you claim a mine, and start mining. But adding the next layer, of moving those resources from the mine to the crafters in the cities, would add tremendously to depth. It would also make the gameplay deliciously more complicated, as there would not only be fixed installations to plunder (ie. mines), but also mobile caravans to raid.

      EVE Online has this in spades has implemented it very successfully. Player raids on player freighters are a favorite past-time in the game.

    8. Creator Etienne Ramstein on April 10, 2013

      reg. death penalty, if the maps are big (i hope so :-) ) and there are few teleport options, the time spent going back to the battle zone might be enough.

      In Daoc the idea of having to regroup, rebuff, find replacements for people leaving the group, and going back to the batlle was enough to create some sense of risk when roaming as a small group, and some form of attrition for zergs where after each defeat fewer people came back.

    9. Creator Ben Runyon on April 10, 2013

      @Shawn T

      Very nice, that is a great idea.

    10. Creator Kyle on April 10, 2013

      @Shawn T
      That's actually a cool idea! I like it!

    11. Creator Chris Anderson on April 10, 2013

      My favorite answer was to the bonus question. Hard interrupts are in. What other games haven't realized is that hard interrupts are one of the best ways to balance glass cannon builds. It is very difficult to keep a class with very high dps from being either OP, or too squishy to be worth playing without hard interrupts. Interrupts mean that although they can have high DPS, they won't be able to free cast unless the enemy isn't doing his job of interrupting. Glad to hear this is in.

    12. Creator Brandon Barker on April 10, 2013

      @Shawn T

      Good to hear additional ideas along these lines!

    13. Creator Jiiub Rorgash on April 10, 2013

      Quoting Shawn T, because sounds very very cool

      "While we may not have actual corpse looting, where we can take people's stuff, one suggestion I would ask the Devs to consider is looting materials people have collected from corpses in some form of piracy, or resource raids. If you leave equipped, or finished products (or perhaps unbound items) as unlootable, but make it so we can take the resources someone was trying to ferry back to their realm, or castle or whatever, it would give a significant reason for guilds/realms to form escort parties for crafters and resource gatherers in general. I'm not sure if you plan to let people lug 100 logs or stones back to a castle to make repairs, or if you'll be putting in the use of waggons of some form, but in either case, allowing resource looting would help add value to supply chains, and add a lot of deapth to RvR combat, give a feeling of reward/loss, and give a measure of pride to those who can get the job done in terms of bringing the goods home safely (rather than taking the death taxi back to town after filling their inventory)."

    14. Creator Shawn T on April 10, 2013

      While we may not have actual corpse looting, where we can take people's stuff, one suggestion I would ask the Devs to consider is looting materials people have collected from corpses in some form of piracy, or resource raids. If you leave equipped, or finished products (or perhaps unbound items) as unlootable, but make it so we can take the resources someone was trying to ferry back to their realm, or castle or whatever, it would give a significant reason for guilds/realms to form escort parties for crafters and resource gatherers in general. I'm not sure if you plan to let people lug 100 logs or stones back to a castle to make repairs, or if you'll be putting in the use of waggons of some form, but in either case, allowing resource looting would help add value to supply chains, and add a lot of deapth to RvR combat, give a feeling of reward/loss, and give a measure of pride to those who can get the job done in terms of bringing the goods home safely (rather than taking the death taxi back to town after filling their inventory).

    15. Creator Peter Benoit on April 10, 2013

      My favorite part about DAOC RVR is the CC vs anti CC battle. You can't get it in any other game. Newer games elect for shorter CC but no counters to it, this takes away so much from the team dynamic/strategy in fights. If you got mezed, it was up to the players in your group to get you unmezed.

      Please go for longer CC times with abundant anti CC and immunity timers again!

    16. Creator Breyton on April 10, 2013

      @Zift Ylrhavic Resfear : Thanks for your answer :)

    17. Creator Tee El on April 10, 2013

      One thing I LOVED about DAoC is that, for the most part, armor and weapons didn't have a level requirement. Granted, if you used a purple con item it wasn't (usually) as effective as a yellow or white con item, but the game didn't stop you from doing it if you wanted. Whenever I rolled an alt I would craft myself a LOAD of armor and weapons, and since it was crafted it was better than vendor items... and as soon as it turned red con to me I would equip it and it was fantastic!

    18. Creator Pierre-Yves, Midgard on April 10, 2013

      nice update !

    19. Creator Pineapples on April 10, 2013

      Great update by the way. Can't wait to see what Andrew has for us today!

    20. Creator Pineapples on April 10, 2013

      @Charly: BSC stands for Bat Shit Crazy :)

    21. Creator Arkadiusz on April 10, 2013

      #11 wooot :)

    22. Creator Negura on April 10, 2013

      #10 - Yes! So happy to have read this. Proper CC is a must in a RVR game. How it was implemented in the later times in DAOC was perfect, with resists, counters and diminishing returns.

      But there should be forms of proper AOE CC as well as crowd controller as a role on the battlefield.

      Even more excited about the game now.

    23. Creator Charly Ribz on April 10, 2013

      Asking the Q again, what does "BSC" stands for ?

    24. Creator Peter Eriksen [Aragone/Dezpot] EU on April 10, 2013

      Great update, and good timing the silence was getting to be a Little hard on us :P
      cant wait for Alpha to start !
      Btw @ MJ, leaving some links to sites where you did interviews and such, here in a comment so we can find it easily, might help us backers spread the Word even more =)

    25. Creator boxfetish [Mr. Safety] on April 10, 2013

      A bit disappointed on what have heard so far on death penalties. I totally understand no perma-death, and no corpse looting. Corpse looting has a place, but I don't see it in this game and I don't see the former DAoC crowd being into it at all, so that's all good.

      However, time sinks do not really constitute death penalties or real "risk" to balance "reward". There needs to be some kind of either stat/progression loss, or item loss for there to be any real risk to death and to really create a situation where players will be careful and considerate about their RvR.

      Now, I understand it would need to be balanced. It must be benign enough so that this loss wouldn't cause too much frustration or distress, but significant enough so that it would cause individuals and groups to be attentive and judicious about the decisions they make in RvR. This also serves as one of ways in which to diminish the mindless zerg. Zergs will still happen, but they will be more deliberate and considered.

      Hopefully, we will see CSE move more in this direction as the game takes shape.

    26. Creator Alexander on April 10, 2013

      Ahaaa interupt! This only fing that i dont get in other games!

    27. Creator Breyton on April 10, 2013

      Great but how our characters will progress... Only by Killing ppl or we could have some other way (without crafting) like scouting, defend a convoy, help a npc to find an item...

    28. Creator Roch Delsalle on April 10, 2013

      range limit on buffs please ...

    29. Creator james spinner on April 10, 2013

      Will there be reactionary and positional skills in Unchained? aka after a block. after a parry, from the back/side/front ... etc

    30. Creator Alexander Jenner on April 10, 2013

      I liked the DAoC CC approach with the immunity timer.

    31. Creator Tim Fitzgerald on April 9, 2013

      Hunting* sorry

    32. Creator Tim Fitzgerald on April 9, 2013

      I want to see hunting be a significant part of the game, I love small battles between players, it would be awesome to be hinting a deer and have a player from another faction try to take you kill, and have to kill him. Also, when I kill him, I should be able to skin him. I want my Tuatha'de'danan leather armor.. patent pending.

    33. Creator Daniel Zillmann on April 9, 2013

      @ Brandon Thanks for the clarification. We just had a debate about this at my work. In comparison to EvE online. No one commits their large ships or expensive hard to get weaponry (unless they are going to win) because of the significant loss involved! It would be nice to play with that nice shining sword for more than just those 'Rare Opportunity' Anyway, I'm willing to wait a while to see how it pans out. I don't doubt something will replace corpse looting to make it more focused on RvR then PvP Cash Grab.

      As for the Black Shirts ... I think I saw at least two colors. Black, and Slightly Darker Black. you never know till you see them in person!

    34. Creator Anders Jensen on April 9, 2013

      @Brandon your last idea sounds awesome.

      Or maybe you are transporting crafting goods from a City to the frontier to build a siege engine and therefor would need an escort because your self are only a crafter.

    35. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @Daniel Zillmann
      To clarify my last response - no sane person is going to bring a bag full of goodies to a major battle. But, one might be transporting goods from one city to another and be waylaid along the way by some bandits.

      Trust me, it can be very exciting.

    36. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @Daniel Zillmann

      I don't think anyone here was advocating unmitigated corpse-looting.

      BTW, I'm thinking of it as more of an issue out in the wild - not on some major battle front.

    37. Creator Daniel Zillmann on April 9, 2013

      Hey, if your crazy, then I'm crazy to. I'm quite alright with what is being projected here. I mean come on, if Corpse looting was enabled, (as in take whatever) then you only favor the strong, or the big groups of ppl. Life like? yes, but lets face it, it will turn into gang turf and people preying off one another for loot. If its just for a few copper, it will go down, but I don't doubt that something will be rewarding for killing another faction. Because Iv been in real world combat, and mock up combat, you don't go in with any valuables! (I know odd thought right?) If were dealing with life like reality, No corpse looting is a no brainer. Except for the weapons and armor they carry (that you already have, and possibly better because you won AND if you read on the site you will be extremely limited in what you can carry, so no 10 battle axes, 20 plate mail etc) Corpse looting will only slow you down. Not to mention, that time you bend over to loot a corpse, your gonna get *Bweped* in the you know what!

      Personally, thanks for the bone! Will give me a bit to mill over. If you have something for Crafting tho, I would be interested in that. Will the structures be able to be built anywhere? will there be a decay for player built structures? Whats the extent of what they can craft? (House, Castle, Walls) and will one crafter be able to make one structure, or will some structures require multiple people? (say a small keep will require 6 crafters to start, and each additional crafter decreases the time by x amount, and or increases HP by x amount?) Lastly, if the previous question is yes, their will be multiple crafters. Will some classes (tanks, dps, healer) be a 'laborer' and just help decrease the time necessary up to a cap? (Say, requires 2 crafter, but no more than 4 in total, 2 must be crafter, other 2 can be any class. Additional crafters with 'Strong Structure' boon/skill increases structure hp by 5% for each crafter with the skill/boon)

      Thanks a bunch! I hope this game launches and takes the world by storm! I got some people I aim to slap in the face if this game gets off the ground and good!

    38. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @ Zbigniew Szczudlik

      I guess I'm discussing it because I'm trying to get a better feel for, well, what this game will actually feel like, and if it is really set in stone or not.

    39. Creator Zbigniew Szczudlik on April 9, 2013

      Even though corpse looting may be as simple as gold or item drop, no sane designer would now risk enabling looting a piece of gear that a player has worn. But hey, why are we discussing it at all? Mark said, "no corpse looting". Right?

      What it boils down to is the game economy and this is a very unpredictable thing. No spreadsheet can foresee what they real player will focus on when crafting, what the demand and supply there will be, and so on. There may be a lot of tweaks when the game is in alpha or beta, and I guess Mark said is someplace that limited PvE (or what id PvP?) drops might be needed to balance the economy.

    40. Creator Jonathan Madden on April 9, 2013

      I must admit that I'm just a little bit disappointed that there will be no corpse looting whatsoever. Seems to me like that could have done a lot to create a true feeling of danger in combat. Still going to be incredible. Thanks for the update MJ.

    41. Creator Thomas H. Thomas on April 9, 2013

      I am sooo looking forward to this game. Could use a little bit more for the Crafter class in discussions. If you are putting in mezz timers, pls pls pls do not make it two minutes long and give a debuff to a caster to cancel any mezz DAoC with mezz, stun, mezz is totally unrealistic. Also, how are you going to work the $$ aspect for toons?

    42. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @Anders Jensen

      Yes, I was also a bit worried about that ... =(

    43. Creator Anders Jensen on April 9, 2013

      @Brian, agree, I thought DAOC cc mechanics are the best.

    44. Creator Brian F on April 9, 2013

      I'm a pretty solid vote against corpse looting; doesn't interest me.

      Anyway, those of you asking for "diminishing returns" on CC may want to instead stick to the tried and true "immunity" method. Diminishing returns is what enabled chain-CC, diminishing or not.
      A 60 second (or rather, x/ttk+2/55+.35%, whatever) immunity is far, far better.
      Nothing is more diminishing than 0 ;o

    45. Creator xavier muylaert on April 9, 2013

      6) Will there be no PvE in the game at all? No NPCs, really?

      i think this is interesting. this could mean that mobs don't drop the equivalent of 'tartaros gift' or something like that, but you might need crafting materials that are looted from certain mobs/npcs to make certain items. i would certainly not object to a system that has pve (killing mobs) to get certain crafting materials but the ability to buy anything from a crafter with currency earned in rvr only ...

    46. Creator Anders Jensen on April 9, 2013

      @Brandon I dont think that scenario will ever happen in game like this because I dont think where you normally craft etc are in an RvR zone

    47. Creator Ben Runyon on April 9, 2013

      I think most in favor of corpse looting want inventory type items to drop. Not equipped items just to be clear.

    48. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @Thomas Hajcak

      I see your point, and I also agree that losing *EQUIPPED* gear is not to be desired.

    49. Creator Brandon Barker on April 9, 2013

      @Anders Jensen

      It doesn't necessarily have to be equipped items.

      Imagine you just purchased something from a crafter, and are on the way back to bank it. Instead of doing the smart thing and playing it safe, you decide to take a risk so you can log quickly and go the fast way home. On the way, you get ganked. The dice are role, and you may or may not lose the item in your inventory. You may lose a little gold. That kind of thing.