by City State Entertainment
As far as realism goes, I find it very unlikely that Vikings would be using feathers over fur in armour/cloth creation. These dresses look like they've been pulled from a Rain Forest Tribe.
The shield as well, largely impractical. Light density bone is liable to shatter into your eyes, it also probably creates unneccesary weight. Why don't you look at actual Viking clothing and work from there, instead of trying to make it look fan(tasy)ciful.
Vibrant colours is one thing, completely unrealistic material usage is quite another. (At least in my book)
@Ishmael Scarratt: This is the right time to bring up points like these. If all we do is just say BRAVO only because we (all) want this game to firstly be funded, then to be live, but don't raise our voice when some things should obviously be improved, we're not helping CSE our ourselves.
It's not about doing the same old stuff all over again (although yes that was the best RVR/PVP MMO ever and nobody has ever done it again never mind better), it's from my POV more about keeping some of those old school good things and improving them. Adapting them to the new lore, sure, but you can't have Vikings that look like they just landed from the opposite side of the planet and call them Viking.
This IS the right time to point things out and help DEVs with our feedback for this to succeed big time. I hope this is well taken and there are plenty of things that are positive to my ears about this game, starting with (most of) the principles.
This is early, but maybe what we are seeing are clues to where the art direction is heading. And an early sign too if CSE is willing to listen to what many of their core audience and contributors give voice to as concerns.
Be honest guys: 95% of the actual backers are ex (or actual) DAOC players; they are probably attracted not only by the hope to find the ole days gameplay but ALSO the lore and appearance of the old DAOC toons. At the times what made me fall in love with DAOC was the absolute correspondance of the viking warrior look with its historical counterpart.So let's give us That look...please!
Nooo !! this is horrible !
you convert me to midgard ... !
Colors are not a problem. Not at all. Wealthy and rich vikings used to dye their clothes in bright colors. They were few, but they did.
What does not feel right at all is the concept itself.
Anyone who has a little knowledge of viking history/lore would agree. And I see many people agreeing on this. The design is cool but does not feel more Viking than the TDD model.
But what worries me the most is the WoWish resemblance. I have seen many of us pointing that out and I sincerely believe thats something that should be studied.
Too many ornaments. Too many useless ornaments. I can understand ornaments as far as the character is better and can afford a better armor. Always having in mind that these ornaments fit with the lore and the purpose of an armor.
A small shield hanging from the belt covered with teeth. A half-skirt and that kind of belt with even more teeth. Resembles too much of WoW were armors were just over ornamented and had no real feel at all.
Imho, the artistic approach should be much closer to WAR or DAoC than to WoW.
And I think we all know that. Also, we know it is much harder to design a cool-looking realistic armor instead of a fantastic over ornated one. But please! Try :)
+1 again @ Johan
nyway, just as long as they deliver on their RvR promises.......
thanks for the update looks good :)
I think the concept is fantastic. Has another worldly feel to it and I like it. Great work!
I personally don't want my fantasy based video games to feel too much like earth- I prefer these kind of aesthetics over something based more in reality. They're not overly done with fantasy either, things are well proportioned and I can feel a personality behind the clothing and armor.
Oh and I'll take that final picture as a statute for my desk whenever you want ;)
Oh yes .. please give us the option to dye multiple times ... i want bright and shiny colors :) .. and i am going to wear them proudly ..
excuse my english .. i am from austria and despite the fact that i enjoy watching english movies and series .. i am not as fluent as you native speakers :)
@Johan T. Raven : totally agree with you ;) except that I think it's easier to design a simple and "realistic" armor than an ornamented one. less ornaments, less work to do XD
The thing is, these Vikings are not in a historically accurate setting. This is a reformed world of magic and monsters. It doesn't make sense to restrict the armor to what was available in the world when Vikings lived. There's no telling how dense the bone on the shield is, because we don't know what beast it came from. The feathers might have magical properties. For a prototype, I think this is fairly impressive. Besides, the ornamentation adds to the fierceness of the character's look, so that opponents will be intimidated- it doesn't have to serve a special purpose other than that.
it looks great on itself, but it doesn't look/feel viking.
the teeth and feathers, i just dunno.
one of the thing that appealed most to me about DAoC was the recognizability of the classes, races and the setting. it looked more historical than fantastical.
i have no problems with the Vikings being portrayed more as a nomadic than as a seafaring race (Rohirrim from LoTR spring to my mind).
@anya if you are going to use a realistic (historical) name as a the base of your mew realm, you have to make a resemblance to it. We are not talking about 100% viking look. We are talking about something that looks viking, evolved or not.
Sadly this first concept is as Viking as the TDD model was. So if the intention is to just go crazy and dont look any Viking, there is no need to call them Vikings and just come up with a new name. But if they are to be Vikings. They must at least feel Viking :)
About the fierceness. No. A shield with teeth does not look fierce. It just looks small and easy to avoid. Even to shatter it in pieces. Bones are weak once they are dead.
Vikings were fierce. In fact, they used to win battles because of this fierceness. They dis not have any ornated armors. Then, how did they look so aggresive? Well, they used to eat some kind of mushrooms that made them go "berserk". Therefore, they used to even bite their own shields and crack their very own teeth in battle right infront of the enemy :). No need for senseless ornate armors. See that skirt? Not too useful if you are in combat and need to move fast ;)
[MJ] Two things to keep in mind:
1) This is a female model, the male model might look quite different.
2) You might consider why there are teeth, scale and feathers on the Viking. Keep what you kill and all that. :)
You're quite right, you could come up with a multitude of reasons as to why this particular Viking doesn't appear as a conventional Viking would.
Though, I suppose it might be simpler to just not call them Vikings at all.
Justifications are all well and fine, I personally would simply prefer that it were different.
As above, why call them Vikings if they aren't going to look like them?
[MJ] @Jason Smith - This is simply our interpretation of how "a" Viking female may look, nothing more. I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's going to happen with any game. Some people love the model, some don't. Same with the TDD and same as it was for Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, etc. when you use something based on existing IP (real or imagined). Again, I'm sorry you don't like how she looks but as per my other comments, she's just our first stab at it. :)
@Anya: totally agree.
@CSE: I really like this concept. It's a great start. Keep taking risks and thinking out of the box.
@MJ : I appreciate the fact that you are taking care of the comments and feedbacks since these first steps of the game.
Keep it up !
On the other side in my opinion, It's a great model but honestly, I would never call it Viking if I would not know that is called like this.
Just consider this :)
of course it's the first Viking model and I'm sure with time it can be evolve for the better !
@CSE: It's a great model and a beautiful design MJ, no one is arguing that. I understand tastes vary stylistically. But it's not a question of style, as others have said there is nothing Viking/Scandinavian about it. If you are going to call her a Viking it should incorporate some Viking motifs and design. I don't think even the people who love the model can honestly say it reads as Viking. You can't link to a bunch of Viking imagery on one hand for justification about color and then ignore all the rest of it. No one could possibly guessed this is a Viking without being told, because there isn't one Viking motif in the whole design.
I am a fan of the more realistic look as many. I also like this model too. It's cool that people feel so strongly about this, but I just hope the game runs smooth during any keep fights or sieges more than anything. I know Mark has no intentions for cutesy,cartoony, cheesy, etc. and I'm excited about that. This is a dark and dramatically altered world according to the lore. I'm envisioning a "Mad Max/post apocalytptic- meets-Mythology" type of look. Something it's own style - this model fits that for me
my few pennies worth...
i think CSE have done a great job on art/design/style of what we have seen of cu so far. that includes music, too.
apart form all of the obvious comments (you cannot expect be guaranteed to like every model or even the overall art direction in any given game) i really like the female viking model. why?
1. no "nordic" runes plastered all over the skin/clothing/weapons
2. if i had to place that model somewhere on earth, she be roaming the nordic tundra
3. she is a modern interpretation of the classic, beaten to death "viking" - like a counter-revolutionary viking one might say ^^
anyways, keep on rocking mj & crew =)
ps: love the "wear/use for weaponary/armour what you find in battle" concept - works especially well with the crafter class i guess
Big fan of the vibrant colors, and especially surprised how the realistic look is turning out.
Normally I am worried about realistic graphics due to how quickly it becomes outdated, and how many MMOs can never seem to pull it off well. But what I am seeing so far is great! It's like Hero clix models online; a mix of realistic clothing with great colors + fantasy-touched accessories.
I'm enjoying this so far, definitely going to spread the word. Keep it up!
Hmm I think Viking is a hard read regardless without just giving horned helmets, circular shields, and fur... I think that would be the only things I would immediately think of when I imagine Vikings. I like the whole overarching style, DAoC was a bit cartoony like this but simplistic lighting and environments really helped build the realistic mood.
I really like what you have done with that model and I am glad you are trying to create your own "Viking" genre. As some persons have said, it may not look like what most people think a viking should look like but it's not too much of a problem to me.
When I was playing DAoC, a berserker norsemen wasn't really looking like a viking but it did not prevented us to feel immersed in the world. Games have improved their visual graphics over the years and it seems players have stopped trying to use their imagination beyond what the game shows (I could be wrong but that's the feeling I have when I see the reaction of players nowadays compared to back then, and I'm not solely talking about the comments I've read here).
This model does not look like what you think should look like? Fine, Try to immerse yourself in this new world, feel the breeze on your skin and see the steppes in front of you, ... I can very imagine them as being viking in this world. I am glad to see something new about cultures we all know about.
@MJ I'm not worried so much about the colors on this model, as the lack of elements that speak to this woman being of 'viking heritage.' I understand the art will evolve. Looking forward to seeing a male viking, and keeping my fingers crossed that Trolls will make it in as a playable race.
I really like the model. And since I almost always play female characters, this makes a big deal to me.
Good work Jason and team. Keep it up. Maybe less twisting on moves :).
@deusx_ophc for Vikings I would expect runes, at least in weapons.
Else very nice model and animation, tho I expected bit more realistic look :)
The Vikings look sick. Don't change them.
I agree with Negura and some other comments, the vikings dont look like vikings to me. The faces on some pictures are good-looking, cute and noble. In my opinion the northmen should be rough like the north where they come from, with an angular-face.
As Rory said, at the moment "they look more high fashion Mongol in style". I agree with that. One thing that was most important to me in DAoC was the look and feel of the three mythologies in DAoC. The origin of these three mythologies is in Europe, just keep that in mind.
For the vikings, less is more. They dont need feathers and spikes, just metal.
A couple of observations:
1. I find it hilarious that we have so many specialist in medieval history gathered in one place.
2. It's disappointing to read comments that are aimed at preventing CSE to follow their own vision. Total let down, frankly speaking. Can't you guys be a little patient and more open-minded... or at least forgiving?
I personally like almost all of the art I've seen here, but even if I didn't I wouldn't be that stuck-up to judge the game by a few pictures 2 yrs ahead of releasing it.
Good Job CSE! Keep it up!
No comment is preventing CSE from following their vision. I think they will follow their vision regardless. People can still voice their opinions. Is that okay with you? Is that alright?
I am feeling better and better about the art, especially after having slept on it and adjusted my expectations from DAoC a bit. I think this is pretty good for their first showing, but I am also glad I noted my concerns. Perhaps it is too early to have concerns about direction of the art, but there is no harm in it. MJ and CSE seem to be very mindful of their community, but aren't going to cater to its every whim.
They look very Shaman-y which is neat, I think that tooth belt needs some depth is all looks flat and weird.
As long as I can BERSERKER RAGE around the battlefield .... I don't care what they look like. Seriously though, I like this piece. Thank you for all these updates. Way more than I expected.
They look absolutely gorgeous, stoic, strong, and sexy. Great colour scheme.
To be honest, the first thing came to my mind when I saw this was like: Oh, another League of Legends toon has been released. And the second thing: What's the difference to the TTD now?
As I commented at the TTD update already, it's too cartoonish from my point of view. Her Nano-Suit boots look like she is able to do a double-time backflip before she swings here polearm 360 degrees.
So far I have to admit I am not that happy with the art direction. OFC I am still excited to see where the whole thing is going to lead and whether the art direction remains the only thing for me to criticise about the game-plans.
All I sincerely hope for is you guys don't do over the top, garishly huge weapons and armor sets a la WoW. I want REALISTIC models, not them cartoons WoW and other games (Aion, LotR, DDO, etc.) rammed down everyone's throats without listening to their player base.
As for the art direction so far, I am on the fence. Like other posts, I believe the Vikings need to be "harder" looking and as for the TDD's, please NO copies of the Hibs ... UGLY ! Until we start getting more looks at both genders of each race with VARIOUS forms of armor/dress, I'll save my opinions.
Interesting concepts and 3d model! Its good to see no helmets with horns makes me sick every time someone goes the stereotypical route. I agree with alot of what everyone is saying realism is key I think. the only issues I have is that I get a more Shaman possibly skald vibe from these concepts. Id expect more leather and furs. It doesn't scream BAD ASS viking warrior. dirty it up more, wear and tear, body painting. The only thing I really dont like is the mouth teeth thing at her waist to me that doesn't feel viking
I feel bad for the 3 guys at the top. These guys look emasculated. Give them some testosterone! Get some beards, muscles, broad shoulders, scowls, etc. Clean shaven? Clean shaven Vikings!?
Once again I'd like to emphasize artwork that stays away from cartoonish WoW graphics and especially Japanese Anime. We do not want that. Inspiration should be drawn from one of your best resources - DAOC itself - and more historically inspired games like
***Mount and Blade***
***Chivalry: Medieval Warfare***
***Medieval: Total War***
If you draw inspiration from more historical sources, I guarantee your art team will get a much better response. One of the great successes of DAOC was the merger and balance of mythological elements with historical elements. Camelot is not all mythology, but a mixture of mythology and realism.
I'm giving this criticism because I care about the direction of the game and see many comments echoing my own sentiments.
Keep up the hard work.
I didn't like the model the first few times I viewed it on my mobile. After waiting a few days and viewing on my desktop monitor, it has massively grown on me. Still not keen on the face - looks too much like a barbie doll - but the scale(?) boots and gauntlets remind me of DAoC armour.
I don't understand why people criticise this work by saying it's not 'realistic' enough, then at the same time claim DAoC's artistic work was 'realistic'. Did you forget about the class epic armour? And the Mauve/Teal/Royal Blue dyes that any player could apply to armour? And the glowing swords, like the one Legion dropped?
Don't mean to poke fun - but I really don't remember DAoC armour and weaponry being washed out and conservative in design.
Can wait to see the Albs....I mean Arthurians!
I absolutely love the model and colors for the Vikings! :) I also agree with "A Ward" can't wait to see the Arthurians!!! >:)
I do like it, I am open to change, just feels bit too much Mongolian vibe though. Maybe tone it down a bit, Viking just doesn't come to mind; I think they are Asian or Anime looking, which is cool, just not very Viking.
More runes, more fur for men and not feathers, more manliness. War paint and grunge, less high fashion. Nomads don't have to look like bums, but warriors need to look less like Anime heroes (coming from someone who likes Anime)
This viking looks great, but there is still something in it that I would point at :
It is like her clothes are brand new, that she has never been fighting with it ( but the axe ), I would personnaly really like to see some more details showing that she is a true fighter, especially since Vikings are somewhat ancient warriors to me.
The middle of the belt looks a bit empty too, maybe drawing bigger tooth ?
I would also vote for puting more feather/warm clothes maybe.
Anyway, amazing work until now, keep it up plz =)).
The model do look good and all but, it does not look "viking". Unless you were aiming for a manga game?
As for teeth on shields? You may think it looks good, but that is it really. it pity much destroys the function of the shield, nothing can glide of if at all and you will take the full force of the blow and even guide weapons to weak spots. it is the same reason why no real helmets had horns, and it would guide weapons right to the skull at a weak armor spot, kind of silly.
Sorry for such a late comment :)
more japan girl .. not viking girl
i think the viking girl looks great, a mix between viking princess and game of thrones Khaleesi.
i really like the idea of slightly estranged vikings,and i hope that the upcoming arthurians will look like our classic knights of the round table with a little twist.
great artwork so far, plz keep it up!