by Isaac Childres
Regular updates should translate into backer confidence. Glad to have an updated estimate.
Take you'r time isaac....
2017 is fine by me, what your doing is truly amazing
Whoa, no one said 2017. That's crazy-talk. As I said in the GAMA interviews, August/September. I'm pretty confident at this point.
Isaac!!! Take your time. This is one of the best run kickstarters I've seen. If it takes longer, every one of us knows exactly why and we know the result of our patience will be the best product you can give us. If my wait means my mind gets literally blown when I finally throw Gloomhaven on the table, my wait was worth it!
With all the stretch goals and being from a relatively new designer (who's doing a ton of the work himself), I would have been shocked if this arrived within a couple months of the goal let alone on time. As Arsonor said, giving regular updates is huge. Even if this takes until 2017 (though I know that's crazy-talk), as long as you gave regular, transparent updates as to why, I know myself and many others would be fine with that. August/September isn't too bad all things considered. Obviously keep working hard to get it out in highest quality quickly, but you shouldn't feel too bad if it's a few months late (that's pretty much on-time if not early as far as Kickstarter goes).
Hey Isaac, just wanted to pop in and say great interview on the Dice Tower Gamma videos.
I'm currently backing 5 projects, all games of one sort or another. In each case it is taking somewhat longer than originally expected. This project is different because of the regular updates we get. I am not at all upset by the slight delay, which seems to be on par with KS projects. In contrast, I am very happy with the communication, which is far superior to other projects! Keep up the excellent work.
I'm loving all these minor cosmetic changes! Haha... I mean, the Earth element, the tweak on the character sheets, the flying symbol, the overall look of the summons tokens, the summon cards themselves? It's all just beautiful, perfect... I get excited all over again, every time!
The new rule book looks nice! I did want to point out a couple errors, however, in case they haven't been noticed yet.
Page 38 Both errors are on the CITY event card shown in the example, both on the back (outcome) side of the card:
At the top, in the paragraph for the result of choice A, the word "sanctuary" is misspelled as "sactuary."
At the bottom, in the paragraph for the result of choice B, "shopkeepers to silly" should be "shopkeepers too silly"
I would also suggest that on the outcome lines on these cards (or elsewhere in the materials) that you put a space between the math symbols and the numbers that follow. It means to say "Reputation < -4 then do this" but without any spacing it looks like an arrow pointing backward. I didn't understand what that was trying to say at all at first.
Keep up the good work!
Found one more: Bottom of page 40, last sentence: "outcome" should be "outcomes."
Thanks Steelbeard! Yeah, we haven't edited the event cards yet. Probably lots of typos there.
For real, even though you didn't ask for it.... SUPPORT GIVEN!
Isaac, as far as I am concerned you have the license to take as long as you need to make the best game you can. I would be ecstatic to see this game in 2016.
A delay is temporary; an unfinished game is potentially forever. Get it done right, get it polished, get it clean, get it sharp.
Not fishing for support? Heck, I'll bite anyway. As has been said many times already, just knowing what goes on with the project and what is causing the delay is enough to give me peace of mind. Weekly updates are actually way above and beyond what I could even hope of.
Just started browsing through the rulebook and noticed that it says 140 event cards, roads 40x, city 40x - that doesn't really add up (and all the other numbers do).
Please don't be mad at yourself. Just make us a game as fantastic as Forge War and we won't even remember it's late ;)
Double all your estimates. Especially editing and proofing. Seriously, I'm expecting this game for Christmas and not a day sooner. It is what it is. When I backed your project I didn't even notice what your promised delivery date was. I just assumed a year or so. Good luck with everything. Eat some pie.
I wouldn't worry too much about the process talking longer than originally planned. People who have backed multiple projects on here know that estimates are just that. When communication is kept up, people are largely forgiving. As long as you don't do what Unspeakable Words has done, I'm sure you'll continue to see most people be supportive. After all, the backers want to see the best game possible on their tables.
As long as you keep your promise of delivering a truly amazing game, which I am pretty confident it will be the case, I have no problem waiting a few months longer to get my reward. I have plenty of games to play in the meantime.
Don't sweat it and keep up the good work Isaac !
No problem, Isaac.
I don't imagine there is a single backer who didn't take May delivery with a pinch of salt.
Personally, I'd have been flabbergasted if it had turned up in May.
How many of us have played a videogame that has to meet a deadline and, because of that, has a lot of bugs and missed content? I want to play Gloomhaven because sounds greate (I've backed the game, right? :P) but if to have a good game I have to wait 2 weeks, 1 month or 3, I'll wait.
And I don't thing many people would say "Yeah, whatever, just ship the game no mather what state is!".
I'll add my tuppence here as well. When I back a project, I look at the estimated date and add a few months (or more) on. As long as there are regular updates (doesn't have to be weekly..) then it's usually good.
The bigger issue for me is how am I going to sneak this past the wife when it arrives :)
Take you're time, no problem here. This game will be simply awesome!!
Like many have said, I'm fine with the time it takes to get things right and it's just a facet of Kickstarter that we all learn to deal with.....however......
Any chance we can dispense with the random bold phrases in the updates...? It makes things annoying to read.
I have absolutely NO problem at all with your delivery "speed" ... I'd rather wait a couple of months longer for a product that you can be proud of and I can have the more fun with. You give us frequent updates with lots of information ... there is no need at all to apologize (to me at least) or get mad at yourself.
Ditto. As far as I'm concerned, take as much time as you need. Can't wait to play your great looking game -- but not before it's ready. :)
Ditto to the comments below. I appreciate the weekly updates, good or bad. Other kickstarter could learn from you.
Take your time. I'd rather wait and extra month for additional play testing so that ambiguities, exploits, and balance issues can be found and addressed.
Make that 'as many months as it takes'. Christmas would be a good goal :-)
It's a big game, with a -lot- of moving parts, and a lot of evolution over the course of a campaign. I'm glad you took your time to make sure everything interacts just the way you want, and that everything gets presented exactly how you want. Take your time, I'm in no hurry!
I finally feel like I have a more structured idea of what it will take to finish this project?
The rule book looks really nice. I just noticed a small error: in the component list, it says 140 event cards and then only list 40 city and 40 road events.
I might not be understanding it correctly but advantage with rolling modifiers doesn't seem like much of an advantage. It seems like your just using the rolling modifiers as they are normally used. If I have advantage and draw a rolling modifier + -2 I'm forced to take them both with no other choice to impose my advantage.
The item card description doesn't explain what the 1/2 or 2/2 on the item cards are. Are they the number of that type of item there are?
page 22 at the bottom I think should be "at" not "and" - ... to the “Strong” column of the elemental infusion table and the end of the turn in which the ability was used.
I agree with the guy who said "Double your estimates". I'm expecting to open this up in December, if not early 2017. And I'm okay with that. It's a cool, unique game that warrants a lengthy process. I've got lots of other games to play in the mean time as I'm sure most of us do. Big companies like CMON deliver late on their estimated dates, and I feel like the scale of this surpasses some of their games. Take your time, give me a good game that my friends will want too.
I think, that in the contrary you are very fast. Especially when writing the Scenarios. I am afraid that the theme could have the feel of just be pasted on the very elaborated game-mechanics. Time is not my concern. Storytelling is.
If your game is late, some may grumble during the wait, but if your game were rushed, many more would grumble louder and longer.
It's not a science anyway. We knew estimates were guesstimates. Your not baking cupcakes, your designing a game so ignore any guilt and press on man!
Please please please take as much time as it takes to make sure everything is great. If I don't get this til the middle of next year, that is fine!
@Tim, The advantage with a rolling modifier comes from being able to get 2 cards, regardless of which one comes up first. But your right, that's not nearly as distinct of an advantage as it is without a rolling modifier.
I will agree with some of the comments below. I would like a fantastic product created slowly and patiently. There is no due date in my mind. Like others, I presume, this is not the only game I play. Kickstarter creations should slowly grow, like a nice slow cooker recipe. The end result matters, not the time it takes to create. Besides, not getting it right the first time is where bad feelings are created. I suspect we will all celebrate when the time is right.
@Isaac: To repeat what has already been done and add to it: You are creating an awesome game. Not only that, you are creating a huge game. This game has had an uptake that I am certain surpassed your expectations considering all the stretch goals that were unlocked.
Such a creation takes time. Look at the current two other games I can't wait to see: Seafall and Chronicles: Origin. Even Artana admitted that they missed the original dates on Chronicles and now will not commit to dates. We are just hitting the second round os testing the game.
So, Honestly, stop beating yourself up on it. I expected for this huge game to take over a year to complete.
If I may propose: Use a nice graphic to show the timeline and the things that needs to be completed. This way, it will provide everyone with a nice visual of the amount of work to be accomplished and the new timeline (which I expect will go beyond your most pessimistic estimates... ;P).
Keep up the good work, don't rush it or you will burn yourself up. Keep the passion and patience. :D
I still need to get around to playing Forge Wars anyways so I don't have yet the time to play Gloomhaven anyhow... ;P
Oh, and Issac, if you don't take the mandatory rest periods, I'll call the wife... ;P You don't want to make the wife angry... ;P
Happy Easter, man! Greatness takes time; I can't imagine how long fun takes.
Loving the changes to the rulebook so far. There were a lot of things that needed fixing and some things that I had an opinion on, but I thought I would wait till the next version. The errors and even some of the opinions I had were fixed. Nice Job guys (Isaac, Walker and anyone else who contributed)!
@Isaac, a typesetting error on p45. All is bolded except the first character in the sentence "Enhancements persist through all instances of a special character class, even after retirement."
@Isaac: regarding elemental infusions: "If an ability is used that consumes an element and the corresponding element token is in the Strong or Waning column, that element token may be moved to Inert to augment the ability." I read this that I can use the element, and then Choose to put the element token in the inert column or decide to keep it at the strong/waning column. Shoul it not be read as: "An ability may be used to consume an element if the corresponding element token is in the Strong or Waning column, that element token must be moved to Inert to augment the ability."? I.e. If I choose to consume the element to augment my ability, I have to put the token in the Inert column. This would make more sense to me...