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A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
4,904 backers pledged $386,104 to help bring this project to life.

More Rules: Post-Kickstarter week 25

Posted by Isaac Childres (Creator)
72 likes

Good evening, residents of Gloomhaven!

I hope you are all having a good time, despite not having Gloomhaven to entertain you. It will be worth the wait!

I must say, for a long time now there has been so much work to do on the project, that all I could think was, "Ah, we'll probably be done in a month or so." But then, of course, many months go by and that would still feel like the case.

Well, now, for the first time, I finally feel like I have a more structured idea of what it will take to finish this project.

First of all, as I've said before, there's just a lot of "little stuff," but I feel like I've been getting a good handle on that over the last week, and I don't think it will take more than a couple weeks to get all of it under control.

Then there is my main adversary, the scenario book - the high and treacherous mountain. It's a lot of work, but based on my experience putting together the first third or so of it, I think I can get it to a finished state with another month of work.

And finally there is the editing and proofing that needs to be done. This is a continual process, but I don't think it should last more than a week or two past the completion of the scenario book.

That puts us, at most, about two months away from sending the files to the printer. Which is not great, but at least it's a more concrete estimate.

Look, there's not a day that goes by that I don't get mad at myself for how long this project is taking versus what I promised you. I know a lot of you have expressed your strong support for taking as much time as necessary, and of course making the game as high quality as possible is the first priority, but when I think about how this game may not be delivered until a year after the whole project started, well, it's a little upsetting.

I'm not fishing for more support here. I just wanted to let you know that I am acutely aware of how long this project is taking, and my only solace is how awesome the game is going to be once it is finally shipped out.

But let's move on to other things!

Josh has been hard at work on a new version of the rule book. There are still a few "under construction" parts, but overall I think we're getting pretty close to putting this thing to bed.

You can take a look the newest version here.

A lot of people have offered a lot of very helpful feedback on the rules over the last few weeks, and I am incredibly appreciative of you all.

I just want to take a second to thank all-around amazing person Walker Hardin for going way above and beyond in his detail and organization on a large number of very helpful rule book edits. His input was truly invaluable.

Again, not all suggestions were incorporated, so I hope no one gets offended. In most cases, it was just a matter of space. Please let us know if there are still any glaring problems. (Though I am aware that the monster stat card on page 28 is showing the wrong monster.)

All right! Enjoy your Easter weekend, and I'll see you back here next time!

Morgan, Arsonor, and 70 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Jeroen Paardekooper Overman on

      @Isaac: regarding elemental infusions: "If an ability is used that consumes an element and the corresponding element token is in the Strong or Waning column, that element token may be moved to Inert to augment the ability." I read this that I can use the element, and then Choose to put the element token in the inert column or decide to keep it at the strong/waning column. Shoul it not be read as: "An ability may be used to consume an element if the corresponding element token is in the Strong or Waning column, that element token must be moved to Inert to augment the ability."? I.e. If I choose to consume the element to augment my ability, I have to put the token in the Inert column. This would make more sense to me...

    2. Missing avatar

      Thomas Hanks on

      @Isaac, a typesetting error on p45. All is bolded except the first character in the sentence "Enhancements persist through all instances of a special character class, even after retirement."

    3. Jesse Nooney on

      Loving the changes to the rulebook so far. There were a lot of things that needed fixing and some things that I had an opinion on, but I thought I would wait till the next version. The errors and even some of the opinions I had were fixed. Nice Job guys (Isaac, Walker and anyone else who contributed)!

    4. Eamon Burke on

      Happy Easter, man! Greatness takes time; I can't imagine how long fun takes.

    5. Missing avatar

      Philippe Proteau
      Superbacker
      on

      Oh, and Issac, if you don't take the mandatory rest periods, I'll call the wife... ;P You don't want to make the wife angry... ;P

    6. Missing avatar

      Philippe Proteau
      Superbacker
      on

      @Isaac: To repeat what has already been done and add to it: You are creating an awesome game. Not only that, you are creating a huge game. This game has had an uptake that I am certain surpassed your expectations considering all the stretch goals that were unlocked.

      Such a creation takes time. Look at the current two other games I can't wait to see: Seafall and Chronicles: Origin. Even Artana admitted that they missed the original dates on Chronicles and now will not commit to dates. We are just hitting the second round os testing the game.

      So, Honestly, stop beating yourself up on it. I expected for this huge game to take over a year to complete.

      If I may propose: Use a nice graphic to show the timeline and the things that needs to be completed. This way, it will provide everyone with a nice visual of the amount of work to be accomplished and the new timeline (which I expect will go beyond your most pessimistic estimates... ;P).

      Keep up the good work, don't rush it or you will burn yourself up. Keep the passion and patience. :D

      I still need to get around to playing Forge Wars anyways so I don't have yet the time to play Gloomhaven anyhow... ;P

      phil.

    7. Dharmatrails
      Superbacker
      on

      I will agree with some of the comments below. I would like a fantastic product created slowly and patiently. There is no due date in my mind. Like others, I presume, this is not the only game I play. Kickstarter creations should slowly grow, like a nice slow cooker recipe. The end result matters, not the time it takes to create. Besides, not getting it right the first time is where bad feelings are created. I suspect we will all celebrate when the time is right.

    8. Montgomery Box on

      @Tim, The advantage with a rolling modifier comes from being able to get 2 cards, regardless of which one comes up first. But your right, that's not nearly as distinct of an advantage as it is without a rolling modifier.

    9. Missing avatar

      David Latimore on

      Please please please take as much time as it takes to make sure everything is great. If I don't get this til the middle of next year, that is fine!

    10. J. Gillespie on

      If your game is late, some may grumble during the wait, but if your game were rushed, many more would grumble louder and longer.

      It's not a science anyway. We knew estimates were guesstimates. Your not baking cupcakes, your designing a game so ignore any guilt and press on man!

    11. Missing avatar

      gino on

      I think, that in the contrary you are very fast. Especially when writing the Scenarios. I am afraid that the theme could have the feel of just be pasted on the very elaborated game-mechanics. Time is not my concern. Storytelling is.

    12. Adam Sergison on

      I agree with the guy who said "Double your estimates". I'm expecting to open this up in December, if not early 2017. And I'm okay with that. It's a cool, unique game that warrants a lengthy process. I've got lots of other games to play in the mean time as I'm sure most of us do. Big companies like CMON deliver late on their estimated dates, and I feel like the scale of this surpasses some of their games. Take your time, give me a good game that my friends will want too.

    13. Tim
      Superbacker
      on

      page 22 at the bottom I think should be "at" not "and" - ... to the “Strong” column of the elemental infusion table and the end of the turn in which the ability was used.

    14. Tim
      Superbacker
      on

      The item card description doesn't explain what the 1/2 or 2/2 on the item cards are. Are they the number of that type of item there are?

    15. Tim
      Superbacker
      on

      I might not be understanding it correctly but advantage with rolling modifiers doesn't seem like much of an advantage. It seems like your just using the rolling modifiers as they are normally used. If I have advantage and draw a rolling modifier + -2 I'm forced to take them both with no other choice to impose my advantage.

    16. Missing avatar

      Cédric Venet
      Superbacker
      on

      The rule book looks really nice. I just noticed a small error: in the component list, it says 140 event cards and then only list 40 city and 40 road events.

    17. Rick Garcia
      Superbacker
      on

      I finally feel like I have a more structured idea of what it will take to finish this project?

      Whoa lol

    18. Missing avatar

      Sleet
      Superbacker
      on

      It's a big game, with a -lot- of moving parts, and a lot of evolution over the course of a campaign. I'm glad you took your time to make sure everything interacts just the way you want, and that everything gets presented exactly how you want. Take your time, I'm in no hurry!

    19. Jim Lederer on

      Make that 'as many months as it takes'. Christmas would be a good goal :-)

    20. Jim Lederer on

      Take your time. I'd rather wait and extra month for additional play testing so that ambiguities, exploits, and balance issues can be found and addressed.

    21. John Dominguez on

      Ditto to the comments below. I appreciate the weekly updates, good or bad. Other kickstarter could learn from you.

    22. Brian C on

      Ditto. As far as I'm concerned, take as much time as you need. Can't wait to play your great looking game -- but not before it's ready. :)

    23. Weresheep of Sin AKA Stefan
      Superbacker
      on

      I have absolutely NO problem at all with your delivery "speed" ... I'd rather wait a couple of months longer for a product that you can be proud of and I can have the more fun with. You give us frequent updates with lots of information ... there is no need at all to apologize (to me at least) or get mad at yourself.

    24. Missing avatar

      N Jones on

      Like many have said, I'm fine with the time it takes to get things right and it's just a facet of Kickstarter that we all learn to deal with.....however......

      Any chance we can dispense with the random bold phrases in the updates...? It makes things annoying to read.

    25. baraldi82 on

      Take you're time, no problem here. This game will be simply awesome!!

    26. Missing avatar

      Michael Roberts
      Superbacker
      on

      I'll add my tuppence here as well. When I back a project, I look at the estimated date and add a few months (or more) on. As long as there are regular updates (doesn't have to be weekly..) then it's usually good.
      The bigger issue for me is how am I going to sneak this past the wife when it arrives :)

    27. Missing avatar

      David on

      How many of us have played a videogame that has to meet a deadline and, because of that, has a lot of bugs and missed content? I want to play Gloomhaven because sounds greate (I've backed the game, right? :P) but if to have a good game I have to wait 2 weeks, 1 month or 3, I'll wait.

      And I don't thing many people would say "Yeah, whatever, just ship the game no mather what state is!".

    28. Tony Cotterill on

      No problem, Isaac.
      I don't imagine there is a single backer who didn't take May delivery with a pinch of salt.
      Personally, I'd have been flabbergasted if it had turned up in May.

    29. Missing avatar

      Halcon on

      As long as you keep your promise of delivering a truly amazing game, which I am pretty confident it will be the case, I have no problem waiting a few months longer to get my reward. I have plenty of games to play in the meantime.

      Don't sweat it and keep up the good work Isaac !

    30. David Berck
      Superbacker
      on

      I wouldn't worry too much about the process talking longer than originally planned. People who have backed multiple projects on here know that estimates are just that. When communication is kept up, people are largely forgiving. As long as you don't do what Unspeakable Words has done, I'm sure you'll continue to see most people be supportive. After all, the backers want to see the best game possible on their tables.

    31. Missing avatar

      David Di Muro
      Superbacker
      on

      Double all your estimates. Especially editing and proofing. Seriously, I'm expecting this game for Christmas and not a day sooner. It is what it is. When I backed your project I didn't even notice what your promised delivery date was. I just assumed a year or so. Good luck with everything. Eat some pie.

    32. Chantal Noordeloos
      Superbacker
      on

      Please don't be mad at yourself. Just make us a game as fantastic as Forge War and we won't even remember it's late ;)

    33. Morten Friis
      Superbacker
      on

      Just started browsing through the rulebook and noticed that it says 140 event cards, roads 40x, city 40x - that doesn't really add up (and all the other numbers do).

    34. Morten Friis
      Superbacker
      on

      Not fishing for support? Heck, I'll bite anyway. As has been said many times already, just knowing what goes on with the project and what is causing the delay is enough to give me peace of mind. Weekly updates are actually way above and beyond what I could even hope of.

    35. Paul Johnson on

      Isaac, as far as I am concerned you have the license to take as long as you need to make the best game you can. I would be ecstatic to see this game in 2016.

      A delay is temporary; an unfinished game is potentially forever. Get it done right, get it polished, get it clean, get it sharp.

    36. Gutris
      Superbacker
      on

      For real, even though you didn't ask for it.... SUPPORT GIVEN!

    37. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Thanks Steelbeard! Yeah, we haven't edited the event cards yet. Probably lots of typos there.

    38. Missing avatar

      Steelbeard on

      Found one more: Bottom of page 40, last sentence: "outcome" should be "outcomes."

    39. Missing avatar

      Steelbeard on

      The new rule book looks nice! I did want to point out a couple errors, however, in case they haven't been noticed yet.

      Page 38 Both errors are on the CITY event card shown in the example, both on the back (outcome) side of the card:

      At the top, in the paragraph for the result of choice A, the word "sanctuary" is misspelled as "sactuary."

      At the bottom, in the paragraph for the result of choice B, "shopkeepers to silly" should be "shopkeepers too silly"

      I would also suggest that on the outcome lines on these cards (or elsewhere in the materials) that you put a space between the math symbols and the numbers that follow. It means to say "Reputation < -4 then do this" but without any spacing it looks like an arrow pointing backward. I didn't understand what that was trying to say at all at first.

      Keep up the good work!

    40. Mathew G Somers on

      I'm loving all these minor cosmetic changes! Haha... I mean, the Earth element, the tweak on the character sheets, the flying symbol, the overall look of the summons tokens, the summon cards themselves? It's all just beautiful, perfect... I get excited all over again, every time!

    41. Missing avatar

      Steve Kline
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm currently backing 5 projects, all games of one sort or another. In each case it is taking somewhat longer than originally expected. This project is different because of the regular updates we get. I am not at all upset by the slight delay, which seems to be on par with KS projects. In contrast, I am very happy with the communication, which is far superior to other projects! Keep up the excellent work.

    42. Jeff
      Superbacker
      on

      Hey Isaac, just wanted to pop in and say great interview on the Dice Tower Gamma videos.

    43. Benjamin on

      With all the stretch goals and being from a relatively new designer (who's doing a ton of the work himself), I would have been shocked if this arrived within a couple months of the goal let alone on time. As Arsonor said, giving regular updates is huge. Even if this takes until 2017 (though I know that's crazy-talk), as long as you gave regular, transparent updates as to why, I know myself and many others would be fine with that. August/September isn't too bad all things considered. Obviously keep working hard to get it out in highest quality quickly, but you shouldn't feel too bad if it's a few months late (that's pretty much on-time if not early as far as Kickstarter goes).

    44. Andrew Ross on

      Isaac!!! Take your time. This is one of the best run kickstarters I've seen. If it takes longer, every one of us knows exactly why and we know the result of our patience will be the best product you can give us. If my wait means my mind gets literally blown when I finally throw Gloomhaven on the table, my wait was worth it!

    45. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Whoa, no one said 2017. That's crazy-talk. As I said in the GAMA interviews, August/September. I'm pretty confident at this point.

    46. Dyfed Bowen on

      Take you'r time isaac....

      2017 is fine by me, what your doing is truly amazing

    47. Arsonor
      Superbacker
      on

      Regular updates should translate into backer confidence. Glad to have an updated estimate.