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A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
4,904 backers pledged $386,104 to help bring this project to life.

Rules and Developments: Post-Kickstarter week 21

Posted by Isaac Childres (Creator)
63 likes

Welcome all you residents of Gloomhaven!

We are back with another episode of "What's New with Gloomhaven?" When we last left, a lot of people had a lot of strong opinions about the scenario book, which was great! Seriously, even though we didn't use all of it, it was all very much appreciated.

It would be rather difficult to explain all the changes we made and didn't made and the reasoning behind each choice, but each choice was made in the service of improving readability and conserving space. I'd prefer it if conserving space were less of an issue, but we've got 95 scenarios to cram into this book and there are enough components as it is.

So, with that said, I'd like to introduce you to the first few pages of the new version of the scenario book. You can find it here.

The one thing we'd still like to incorporate and haven't is a check box next to the scenario titles if people want to mark those after completion.

Next I'd like to introduce you to a rule book! This is still a work in progress, so take that into consideration, but we are ready for some feedback at this point. Some areas have been labeled "under construction," so don't worry too much about those at this point.

Anyway, you can find it here.

It is a 50-page beast, so take your time with it. We'll be here all week. We're not too worried about specifics at this point, but more of a general sense of whether there is a consistent, understandable flow of information. Or if there are any glaring missing bits of information.

And, yeah, I know, some of you might have just tensed up at the thought of a 50-page rule book, but worry not, because I have one more awesome thing to share with you!

The illustrious Paul Grogan, expert rules video producer and all-around awesome guy, has officially agreed to produce a rules overview video for Gloomhaven, to hit his Gaming Rules! YouTube channel when game boxes are delivered to backers.

If you haven't watched any of Paul's videos, you really should the next time you're trying to learn a game. They are beautifully produced, and I am incredibly happy that he was able to fit Gloomhaven into his busy schedule.

And I think that's about all there is to share for the week. I know I said last week that I'd be working out a definitive timeline with my manufacturer, but that's still a work in progress, so I should have that for you next week.

I'll also be sending out surveys next week, so look forward to filling those out too! See you next time on "What's New with Gloomhaven?"

Raider363, Trev Or, and 61 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Mathew G Somers on

      Well, guess I'll be the one to say it, haha... 95 scenarios!?!?!?

    2. Missing avatar

      toshuman on

      @Josh McDowell Thanks man. No problem. Looking back at problem #2 I listed, I think the issue with the wording is the "however" and the "also." The "also" made me think that there were somehow two targets receiving disadvantage or that it was related to the previous sentence which was reinforced by the "however." I think the bolding is enough (rather than putting it in the ranged section too), but just rewording. Something like.. "any (ranged symbol) attack targeting an adjacent figure suffers from disadvantage." Maybe even make that the first sentence in that paragraph, making the second sentence something like "most other cases of disadvantage and advantage occur because of monster and character abilities. That way you wouldn't need the "however" and the "also" which make it seem like you are talking about exceptions or second instances of the rule itself rather than how that rule stacks against other rules. I'm correcting wordiness with wordiness here but I hope you catch my meaning. Loving the rule book otherwise. Feel like it is just as long as it needs to be.
      One other instance I can imagine confusion without having playing it myself is the rollover cards with advantage and disadvantage. Would love to see and example of that either written out or illustrated but feel like I could probably figure it out without those.

    3. ionas on

      End pieces for the hexagon map tiles would be good, just small generic ones that close the visuals.

    4. Missing avatar

      Johannes Bartosch on

      I like the changes on the scenario book. Good job.

      However I still think there are a few things to improve.
      First now with the new section for describing all the pictures, I think it would be good to put the map-piece info into that section (maybe as a header or first/last element).
      Second I feel like the placement of the quest-title text is a bit off (seems a bit too low and too far to the left, but could also be acrobat acting up).
      Third I still feel like the requirments and goal info shouldn't have its own frame. I think it would look better, especially when a new quest starts mid-page, if put inside the header frame or as the first element of the main frame (of course in a smaller font size).

      I haven't read the rulebook yet, so no feedback on that so far, sorry.

      Also how much are the map-tiles finalized? In any regard I think they could be much easier to read if they have a small black outer boarder.

      Keep up the good work!
      regards
      Johannes

    5. Josh McDowell on

      @toshuman - i caught #1 last night when I was going through it again. So already fixed! Thanks for for your input. I'll put some thought into your second comment.

    6. Missing avatar

      toshuman on

      Love the rule book format and content so far. A few minor things I noted for improvement.
      1. Bottom of pg 19 has some italics text that includes a rule. The example is in italics but I wondered if the rule was meant not to be. "When a monster is brought to zero..."
      2. Pg 28 had a rule I almost missed because of the way it's worded. It says that when a ranged attack targets an adjacent target it gets disadvantage. I think maybe that should be a sentence that doesn't start with "however" or something. To me it sounded like an exception to the previous sentence instead of its own rule. Also might be worth stating in the ranged attack section. Just "if the target of the ranged attack is adjacent to the attacker it gains disadvantage" and see disadvantage on XX or something. I know that's providing a term before you define it but it seems like an important and easily missed rule where it is now. The rewording might be enough there though.
      3. Minor minor nitpick that'll be caught in editing probably but the city event on of 38 has a typo. Part B consequences on the back of the card says "shopkeepers to silly" but should say "too".
      Thanks again for showing this to us. Really pumped for this game.

    7. Missing avatar

      toshuman on

      Love the rule book format and content so far. A few minor things I noted for improvement.
      1. Bottom of pg 19 has some italics text that includes a rule. The example is in italics but I wondered if the rule was meant not to be. "When a monster is brought to zero..."
      2. Pg 28 had a rule I almost missed because of the way it's worded. It says that when a ranged attack targets an adjacent target it gets disadvantage. I think maybe that should be a sentence that doesn't start with "however" or something. To me it sounded like an exception to the previous sentence instead of its own rule. Also might be worth stating in the ranged attack section. Just "if the target of the ranged attack is adjacent to the attacker it gains disadvantage" and see disadvantage on XX or something. I know that's providing a term before you define it but it seems like an important and easily missed rule where it is now. The rewording might be enough there though.
      3. Minor minor nitpick that'll be caught in editing probably but the city event on of 38 has a typo. Part B consequences on the back of the card says "shopkeepers to silly" but should say "too".
      Thanks again for showing this to us. Really pumped for this game.

    8. Missing avatar

      Mike Daneman on

      Just finished reading the rules. Generally they are quite clear and well layed out. I agree with a previous commenter that the rules on the use of rolling modifiers with advantage are not super clear.
      Regarding the rules themselves, there are two items that I'm not crazy about. 1. LOS using corner-to-corner lines is fiddle and requires you to check 36 different possibilities (yes, I know it's usually less) and can also result in non-physical targeting. Decent uses rules like that (except on squares rather than hexes) and I don't like them either. Would it really break the game to just use center-to-center LOS? 2. Bosses being immune to status effects is non-thematic and could also make characters who specialize in status effects feel less useful against them. Would the game still work if bosses were not immune? Maybe they need to be made a bit tougher to compensate. Other than these, the rules look great and I'm really excited about the game.

    9. Montgomery Box on

      The layout and rules are very easy to understand. 50 pages seems like a lot, but you have a good amount of whitespace, examples and diagrams to make it easy to read. The only section that I have no idea what you are talking about was how to handle a rolling modifier when you have advantage or disadvantage.

    10. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Okay, here is a link to the rule book on Google drive:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ppELln5Z0rMGVuX0ZFRXllbkU/view…

      And the scenario book:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ppELln5Z0rRkg1UVN1OVBMbms/view…

      Hopefully Google allows for more traffic.

    11. ionas on

      This account's links are generating too much traffic and have been temporarily disabled!

    12. Fergus Conolly
      Superbacker
      on

      Hi Isaac. Looks like you've hit your band limit on Dropbox. You could try Google drive as well?

    13. Missing avatar

      Matthew Kameron on

      PS the chests I see where you have "000" are pretty clear... you could consider that style for the other tiles too!

    14. Missing avatar

      Matthew Kameron on

      What about trying the dots suggestion in the corners, even if it was AS WELL AS the colours?

    15. Paul Grogan on

      Who is this Paul Grogan guy? :) Seriously though, I'm super excited to be on board with this!

    16. Missing avatar

      Scotfree on

      Man, I was so looking forward to getting home to read the rulebook; apparently everyone else had the same idea. Need a mirror link!

    17. drone9
      Superbacker
      on

      Or upload to WeTransfer and share the link here. You don't need an account and the files will be automatically removed after 7 days. Just klick < at the bottom left to change the sharing method from email to link.

    18. Nakano
      Superbacker
      on

      @Isaac You could for example create a free Mediafire account, upload the documents and remove them later through your account.

    19. Caleb Kester on

      You can stop being so popular!

    20. Missing avatar

      TJ Jackson
      Superbacker
      on

      How about upload it to BGG?

    21. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Hmm, I didn't realize that could happen. Not sure what else to do but wait.

    22. Missing avatar

      Richard Trout on

      I'm seeing same Dropbox error.

    23. Elyklord - Creator of Vekyl
      Superbacker
      on

      Dropbox 429 error - the links to the rule and scenario books are generating too much traffic, so they've temporarily disabled! :(

    24. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Matthew, we are certainly not annoyed at Marty or ignoring his comments. We just think the numbers would have to be too small and colors are clearer. Moreover, the colors were chosen specifically so that they would still be clear for all types of colorblindness.

    25. Donny Schuijers on

      Getting excited about these Envelopes. <3

    26. Missing avatar

      Matthew Kameron on

      I should add - really looking forward to the game. I'm going to be playing 3players - my niece (8) my nephew (10) and my own boy (6 mths... he may need some help). It will be totally awesome!!

    27. Missing avatar

      Matthew Kameron on

      Looking nice.
      However, the colours on the edge of tiles has got to go! I think it is worth re-reading Marty's comments from last week. Although it is easy to just get annoyed at him since he has spoken a lot, I don't think you should do that - I think you should see that he is impassioned and wants this game to be awesome. And his concerns are very valid.

      In particular, his comment:

      "There are proven systems that work and that gamers don't have problems understanding (and often don't even need to reference the rule book after the first time with that game because the system is so simple and that same system exists in so many other games). Why invent an abstract system if not simply to be clever?"

      The colour system is pretty inconsiderate for colourblind people, but also is just unnecessary. Numbers or dots or something would be much better. Not as "cool" and "unique".

      HOWEVER what is cool and unique that counts is the game itself, the legacy aspect, the combat systems, the scenarios. That is what players want and showing innovation in a scenario book is not really necessary.

    28. Missing avatar

      Milo Gertjejansen on

      Whoa. Chrome PDF viewer did not have white text through Dropbox! I opened it in Evince and was greeted with a nice card I could read well!

      Please disregard my last comment!

    29. Missing avatar

      Milo Gertjejansen on

      In the rulebook on page 7, is that card text representative of what the colors will look like when printed? While I like the blue into dark blue I find the bottom half really tough to read.

      Have you considered modifying the the color of the text or lightening up the card color at all?